Hello All,

I've been lurking around this newsgroup for sometime and have finally
decided to create my own planted tank. After several weeks of prep
work i've amassed all my equipment and have started my own 55 gallon
planted tank. I'd fairly methodical about most things so before I even
started my planning i checked out what kind of water comes out of my
tap. My tap water output is basically perfect. I get a ph reading of
7.0 ( aquarium pharmaceutical), a GH of 2dh and a KH of 2dh.

I've had my tap water double checked and the readings are correct.
Lucky me i can keep all sorts of sof****er creatures (discus!!)
without having to buy a ro unit or a deionizer.

I set up my tank with co2, a fluval 404, a nice piece of driftwood and
several types of plants. Here begins the downfall (i think). I bought
1 bag of flourite from seachem and 2 bags of flourite red. I
understood from my LFS that I would mix the three bags and put a layer
of gravel above it. I bought a used tank so it came with gravel and i
used that after rising it. So after two days with everything planted
and humming i take my water readings. My ph has gone down to 6.8 (yay
CO2) while my KH has gone up to 3dh (yay CO2) but my GH has shot
through the roof to a whopping 10dh. There goes my soft water!

I sit down and realize - holy crap - that crappy gravel i put on top
of that beautiful flourite might not be inert. Then I call the
previous tank owner and asked him what kind of fish he kept. Turns out
he kept cichlids! I've come to the conclusion that the only way to get
my sof****er back is to remove that gravel. After reading several post
i have come to realize that flourite can be used as the only substrate
(and probably should be it's so great looking). So the question is -
Do I have to remove all the flourite and by new flourite because it
might have soaked in the minerals from the stupid gravel or can I get
away with just taking the gravel out and doing a complete water
change?

Everything was going so well....

On 2 Nov 2003 23:19:05 -0800, (Felix) wrote:

and humming i take my water readings. My ph has gone down to 6.8 (yay
CO2) while my KH has gone up to 3dh (yay CO2) but my GH has shot

CO2 does not increase KH.....

Do I have to remove all the flourite and by new flourite because it
might have soaked in the minerals from the stupid gravel or can I get
away with just taking the gravel out and doing a complete water
change?

The flourite will be fine, it doesn't "soak up" stuff.



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

in article , Felix at
wrote on 11/3/03 12:19 AM:

get
away with just taking the gravel out and doing a complete water
change
I'd do that and give it time to stabilize and check it again. Flourite is
too expensive to just chunk it. Also think of doing sand instead of gravel
over the flourite if you want to hide the flourite. That's what I did and
the plants love the sand!

Hi there,

If you did not stock allready there's little lost.
Just go ahead as you described. Don't worry too much if * some * of the
calcerous gravel stays in the tank (just be sure not to toss out too much
flourite)since your tap water is very soft, so a little additional hardness
added by the gravel wouldn't hurt that much. Even the GH10 you have now
wouldn't be that bad, if it was a constant factor (which it's not now... for
obvious reasons).
I have no experiences with flourite, but I read good stories about it, you
could use it as a sole substrate.

I would be carefull with the addition of CO2 since water of KH2 might be
prone to PH crashes.

"Chuck Gadd" wrote in message
...
On 2 Nov 2003 23:19:05 -0800, (Felix) wrote:

and humming i take my water readings. My ph has gone down to 6.8 (yay
CO2) while my KH has gone up to 3dh (yay CO2) but my GH has shot

CO2 does not increase KH.....


What ever increased his GH probably increased his KH.

gauloiseguy wrote:


I would be carefull with the addition of CO2 since water of KH2 might be
prone to PH crashes.

Water of KH2 is no mor prone ot pH crashes than any other water. A pH crash
occurs when KH drops significantly below 1.

Barry McKnight wrote:

Also think of doing sand instead of gravel
over the flourite if you want to hide the flourite. That's what I did and
the plants love the sand!

Unless the sand has very large grains, it will sink through the Flourite over
time.

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:32:46 -0800, Dave Millman
wrote:

Water of KH2 is no mor prone ot pH crashes than any other water. A pH crash
occurs when KH drops significantly below 1.

I agree.

Just keep an eye on it, and a KH of 2 is perfectly fine. But, the
normal nitrification process in the tank can lower the KH.

KH of 2 is a little closer to reaching that "crash point" than a KH of
3. And a KH of 3 is a little closer than a KH of 4.....



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

I agree with both of you, as you can read I said "on the edge of". A KH of 2
is just something you need to monitor, not to worry about, if it came over
that way, sorry for that...

Thank you all for your responses. I can't tell you how helpful they
were. It's 11:13 in nyc right now and I have just finished replanting
my tank after i removed that evil gravel. It certainly wasn't easy -
i've been working for hours. I really really hope the gh goes back to
what it was coming out of my tap water. I can only imagine how
terribly stressful this has been to the plants and have little
confidence they'll bounce back.

Currently all the equipment is running and i figure i'll take a water
reading tomorrow night and post the params. If tomorrow night I should
find gh has not wandered back to the 3dh range should I just chuck all
the flourite (which still has some gravel embedded in it) and rebuild
the tank? I guess this is a bit premature...

Thank you all for your responses. I'll let you all know what goes down
(or up).

Why do you want to keep such soft water ?
Plants do well in hard water as well.
I maintain healthy planted tank with hard water.
GH 12
KH 10
I do add CO2 and plants do just fine!
"Felix" wrote in message
m...
Thank you all for your responses. I can't tell you how helpful they
were. It's 11:13 in nyc right now and I have just finished replanting
my tank after i removed that evil gravel. It certainly wasn't easy -
i've been working for hours. I really really hope the gh goes back to
what it was coming out of my tap water. I can only imagine how
terribly stressful this has been to the plants and have little
confidence they'll bounce back.

Currently all the equipment is running and i figure i'll take a water
reading tomorrow night and post the params. If tomorrow night I should
find gh has not wandered back to the 3dh range should I just chuck all
the flourite (which still has some gravel embedded in it) and rebuild
the tank? I guess this is a bit premature...

Thank you all for your responses. I'll let you all know what goes down
(or up).

All,

I've just taken my water params again and all is well! After taking
out all the gravel and leaving only the flourite as the only substrate
my GH has gone down from a 10dh to 3dh (one dh harder than my tap
water). Thank you all for the assuring advice.

-Felix

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:37:52 UTC, Chuck Gadd wrote:

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:32:46 -0800, Dave Millman
wrote:

Water of KH2 is no mor prone ot pH crashes than any other water. A pH crash
occurs when KH drops significantly below 1.

I agree.

Just keep an eye on it, and a KH of 2 is perfectly fine. But, the
normal nitrification process in the tank can lower the KH.

KH of 2 is a little closer to reaching that "crash point" than a KH of
3. And a KH of 3 is a little closer than a KH of 4.....

But, returning to the original query, he's setting up a planted tank.
With a KH as low as 2, the pH will have to be kept below 6.8 to provide
enough CO2 for good plant growth, or so goes the received wisdom, e.g.
http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/table_01.shtml
which may not be a problem at all, but something to keep in mind.




--
Dan Drake

http://www.dandrake.com

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