Eradicating BBA
 

Hi:

I'm fed up with my Black Beard Algae. We've had it for the last several
years, but never had it before that. Obviously it came in on some plants or
fish. I've tried all the usual things like SAEs etc. and water control, but
nothing gets rid of it.

Recently I just setup a new 100G tank with brand new gravel and new water.
There was no phosphate in the water at all. Yet the BBA on the plants which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA. You cannot get
rid of it with water control.

So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to do
is:

- Remove all the fish from the tank
- Poor in 5G of Chlorox Bleach (1/20).
- Mix it up and let it circulate in the tank for 5 minutes.
- Drain the tank, refill with water, drain tank, and refill again.
- Put in anti-Chlorine.
- Put fish back in.

I know it will kill my bio in the filters, but that is easy to regrow. I
may loose some of the plants, but I don't care if the BBA is gone forever.
After that I will rinse all plants in Chlorine before putting anything new
in.

Any other suggestions or advice?

Thanks, Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

Hi Chris

You need to check your co2. There's not enough.
Instead of going the chemical nuking route, just do a 3 day blackout. Get
your lighting, co2 and nutrients back up and manually remove as much of the
stuff as you can.

--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**


"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi:

I'm fed up with my Black Beard Algae. We've had it for the last several
years, but never had it before that. Obviously it came in on some plants
or
fish. I've tried all the usual things like SAEs etc. and water control,
but
nothing gets rid of it.

Recently I just setup a new 100G tank with brand new gravel and new water.
There was no phosphate in the water at all. Yet the BBA on the plants
which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA. You cannot get
rid of it with water control.

So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to do
is:

- Remove all the fish from the tank
- Poor in 5G of Chlorox Bleach (1/20).
- Mix it up and let it circulate in the tank for 5 minutes.
- Drain the tank, refill with water, drain tank, and refill again.
- Put in anti-Chlorine.
- Put fish back in.

I know it will kill my bio in the filters, but that is easy to regrow. I
may loose some of the plants, but I don't care if the BBA is gone forever.
After that I will rinse all plants in Chlorine before putting anything new
in.

Any other suggestions or advice?

Thanks, Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

Hi Chris

You need to check your co2. There's not enough.
Instead of going the chemical nuking route, just do a 3 day blackout. Get
your lighting, co2 and nutrients back up and manually remove as much of the
stuff as you can.

--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**


"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi:

I'm fed up with my Black Beard Algae. We've had it for the last several
years, but never had it before that. Obviously it came in on some plants
or
fish. I've tried all the usual things like SAEs etc. and water control,
but
nothing gets rid of it.

Recently I just setup a new 100G tank with brand new gravel and new water.
There was no phosphate in the water at all. Yet the BBA on the plants
which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA. You cannot get
rid of it with water control.

So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to do
is:

- Remove all the fish from the tank
- Poor in 5G of Chlorox Bleach (1/20).
- Mix it up and let it circulate in the tank for 5 minutes.
- Drain the tank, refill with water, drain tank, and refill again.
- Put in anti-Chlorine.
- Put fish back in.

I know it will kill my bio in the filters, but that is easy to regrow. I
may loose some of the plants, but I don't care if the BBA is gone forever.
After that I will rinse all plants in Chlorine before putting anything new
in.

Any other suggestions or advice?

Thanks, Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

Hi:

I've tried running the CO2 from 5PPM to 30PPM. You're right having it
higher and more plant growth helps, but the BBA still does not go away. It
just slows down. I have no problem with any other kind of algae. Just BBA.

Blackout will have no effect. The doc in the Krib and elsewhere says same
thing. BBA will just go dormant. People have taken out rocks with BBA on
them, let them dry in air 6 months, then put them back in water, and the BBA
starts right back where it left off. This stuff is HARD to kill. The only
thing that kills it is Chlorine or Copper Sulphate. Even Copper takes 3-5
days to kill it. Chlorine only takes minutes.

Water control can help or make things worse, but it will never get rid of
it. You could put a rock with BBA in distilled water and the BBA will not
die. Probably just go into hibernation and come back when there are
nutrients around.

The only way I see to kill BBA without killing the plants is Chlorine or
Copper. I've tried everything else. It's time to sterilize the tank.

I'm just kicking myself that I did not sterilize the plants and rocks in
Chlorine when I set this new tank up 2 months ago. I had the perfect
opportunity then to start off with a clean tank. That would have been the
perfect time to get rid of this BBA. Now I see no choice but the hard way.

Thanks, Chris.




"Happy'Cam'per" wrote in message
...
Hi Chris

You need to check your co2. There's not enough.
Instead of going the chemical nuking route, just do a 3 day blackout. Get
your lighting, co2 and nutrients back up and manually remove as much of
the
stuff as you can.

--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**


"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi:

I'm fed up with my Black Beard Algae. We've had it for the last several
years, but never had it before that. Obviously it came in on some
plants
or
fish. I've tried all the usual things like SAEs etc. and water control,
but
nothing gets rid of it.

Recently I just setup a new 100G tank with brand new gravel and new
water.
There was no phosphate in the water at all. Yet the BBA on the plants
which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA. You cannot
get
rid of it with water control.

So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to
do
is:

- Remove all the fish from the tank
- Poor in 5G of Chlorox Bleach (1/20).
- Mix it up and let it circulate in the tank for 5 minutes.
- Drain the tank, refill with water, drain tank, and refill again.
- Put in anti-Chlorine.
- Put fish back in.

I know it will kill my bio in the filters, but that is easy to regrow.
I
may loose some of the plants, but I don't care if the BBA is gone
forever.
After that I will rinse all plants in Chlorine before putting anything
new
in.

Any other suggestions or advice?

Thanks, Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:26:18 GMT, "Chris_S" wrote:

Hi:

I'm fed up with my Black Beard Algae. We've had it for the last several
years, but never had it before that. Obviously it came in on some plants or
fish. I've tried all the usual things like SAEs etc. and water control, but
nothing gets rid of it.

Recently I just setup a new 100G tank with brand new gravel and new water.
There was no phosphate in the water at all. Yet the BBA on the plants which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA. You cannot get
rid of it with water control.

So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to do
is:

- Remove all the fish from the tank
- Poor in 5G of Chlorox Bleach (1/20).
- Mix it up and let it circulate in the tank for 5 minutes.
- Drain the tank, refill with water, drain tank, and refill again.
- Put in anti-Chlorine.
- Put fish back in.

I know it will kill my bio in the filters, but that is easy to regrow. I
may loose some of the plants, but I don't care if the BBA is gone forever.
After that I will rinse all plants in Chlorine before putting anything new
in.

Any other suggestions or advice?

Thanks, Chris.



I am surprised you moved plants with BBA into the new tank. Part of
my getting rid of the stuff was to remove all plants that showed BBA
growth. I also reduced the number of hours the lights are on. A
bought some Siamese Algae Eaters and cut back on the food. I also
removed any gravel that had BBA on it. I did get rid of the stuff and
it has been over 6 months since the last went away.

Eradicating BBA
 

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:26:18 GMT, "Chris_S" wrote:

Hi:

I'm fed up with my Black Beard Algae. We've had it for the last several
years, but never had it before that. Obviously it came in on some plants or
fish. I've tried all the usual things like SAEs etc. and water control, but
nothing gets rid of it.

Recently I just setup a new 100G tank with brand new gravel and new water.
There was no phosphate in the water at all. Yet the BBA on the plants which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA. You cannot get
rid of it with water control.

So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to do
is:

- Remove all the fish from the tank
- Poor in 5G of Chlorox Bleach (1/20).
- Mix it up and let it circulate in the tank for 5 minutes.
- Drain the tank, refill with water, drain tank, and refill again.
- Put in anti-Chlorine.
- Put fish back in.

I know it will kill my bio in the filters, but that is easy to regrow. I
may loose some of the plants, but I don't care if the BBA is gone forever.
After that I will rinse all plants in Chlorine before putting anything new
in.

Any other suggestions or advice?

Thanks, Chris.



I am surprised you moved plants with BBA into the new tank. Part of
my getting rid of the stuff was to remove all plants that showed BBA
growth. I also reduced the number of hours the lights are on. A
bought some Siamese Algae Eaters and cut back on the food. I also
removed any gravel that had BBA on it. I did get rid of the stuff and
it has been over 6 months since the last went away.

Eradicating BBA
 

Hi Chris,

You have my sympathy. I know how it feels to have an algae problem. It may
make one consider giving up this hobby at times. If I remember correctly
when I had BBA I purchased 3 SAE's. They didn't do much with the older BBA
growth. That needed to be physically removed. However they will not let new
BBA grow any more.

What you are considering should work and I don't think it will kill your
plants. If I'd had another aquarium to keep my fish in for some time I would
had considered it myself, too.

Let us posted of your progress and good luck.

--
Regards,
Marvin Hlavac
Toronto, Canada




I'm fed up with my Black Beard Algae. We've had it for the last several
years, but never had it before that. Obviously it came in on some plants
or
fish. I've tried all the usual things like SAEs etc. and water control,
but
nothing gets rid of it.

Recently I just setup a new 100G tank with brand new gravel and new water.
There was no phosphate in the water at all. Yet the BBA on the plants
which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA. You cannot get
rid of it with water control.

So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to do
is:

- Remove all the fish from the tank
- Poor in 5G of Chlorox Bleach (1/20).
- Mix it up and let it circulate in the tank for 5 minutes.
- Drain the tank, refill with water, drain tank, and refill again.
- Put in anti-Chlorine.
- Put fish back in.

I know it will kill my bio in the filters, but that is easy to regrow. I
may loose some of the plants, but I don't care if the BBA is gone forever.
After that I will rinse all plants in Chlorine before putting anything new
in.

Any other suggestions or advice?

Thanks, Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

Hi Chris,

You have my sympathy. I know how it feels to have an algae problem. It may
make one consider giving up this hobby at times. If I remember correctly
when I had BBA I purchased 3 SAE's. They didn't do much with the older BBA
growth. That needed to be physically removed. However they will not let new
BBA grow any more.

What you are considering should work and I don't think it will kill your
plants. If I'd had another aquarium to keep my fish in for some time I would
had considered it myself, too.

Let us posted of your progress and good luck.

--
Regards,
Marvin Hlavac
Toronto, Canada




I'm fed up with my Black Beard Algae. We've had it for the last several
years, but never had it before that. Obviously it came in on some plants
or
fish. I've tried all the usual things like SAEs etc. and water control,
but
nothing gets rid of it.

Recently I just setup a new 100G tank with brand new gravel and new water.
There was no phosphate in the water at all. Yet the BBA on the plants
which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA. You cannot get
rid of it with water control.

So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to do
is:

- Remove all the fish from the tank
- Poor in 5G of Chlorox Bleach (1/20).
- Mix it up and let it circulate in the tank for 5 minutes.
- Drain the tank, refill with water, drain tank, and refill again.
- Put in anti-Chlorine.
- Put fish back in.

I know it will kill my bio in the filters, but that is easy to regrow. I
may loose some of the plants, but I don't care if the BBA is gone forever.
After that I will rinse all plants in Chlorine before putting anything new
in.

Any other suggestions or advice?

Thanks, Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi:

I'm fed up with my Black Beard Algae. We've had it for the last several
years, but never had it before that. Obviously it came in on some plants or
fish. I've tried all the usual things like SAEs etc. and water control, but
nothing gets rid of it.

I recently saw that Azoo now market a Brush Algae Killer. It comes
in a very small bottle (maybe 10ml) and, apparently, a few drops are
sufficient for a 50 gallon tank. Does anyone have any experience with it?

Thanks,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

Eradicating BBA
 

I recently saw that Azoo now market a Brush Algae Killer. It comes
in a very small bottle (maybe 10ml) and, apparently, a few drops are
sufficient for a 50 gallon tank. Does anyone have any experience with it?

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

I recently saw that Azoo now market a Brush Algae Killer. It comes
in a very small bottle (maybe 10ml) and, apparently, a few drops are
sufficient for a 50 gallon tank. Does anyone have any experience with it?

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

I recently saw that Azoo now market a Brush Algae Killer. It comes
in a very small bottle (maybe 10ml) and, apparently, a few drops are
sufficient for a 50 gallon tank. Does anyone have any experience with it?

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Well, I've never tried it, so I'm looking for people with first-hand experience
*before* I get all excited :-)

I've heard anecdotes at my LFS that the stuff works. But I don't know
anything else about it. For example, is it safe for crustaceans? (Azoo
Algae Treater is *not*.) Anyway, if anyone has tried the stuff, I'd be
keen to hear how well it worked.

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Well, I've never tried it, so I'm looking for people with first-hand experience
*before* I get all excited :-)

I've heard anecdotes at my LFS that the stuff works. But I don't know
anything else about it. For example, is it safe for crustaceans? (Azoo
Algae Treater is *not*.) Anyway, if anyone has tried the stuff, I'd be
keen to hear how well it worked.

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Well, I've never tried it, so I'm looking for people with first-hand experience
*before* I get all excited :-)

I've heard anecdotes at my LFS that the stuff works. But I don't know
anything else about it. For example, is it safe for crustaceans? (Azoo
Algae Treater is *not*.) Anyway, if anyone has tried the stuff, I'd be
keen to hear how well it worked.

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Well, I've never tried it, so I'm looking for people with first-hand experience
*before* I get all excited :-)

I've heard anecdotes at my LFS that the stuff works. But I don't know
anything else about it. For example, is it safe for crustaceans? (Azoo
Algae Treater is *not*.) Anyway, if anyone has tried the stuff, I'd be
keen to hear how well it worked.

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

Eradicating BBA
 

It worked like a charm for me 10 months ago in my 3' tank. It takes 2 weeks
treatment(1 drop/`15G) although it seems to take about 8 days to actually
kick in and then you'll notice the reduction very very quickly. 30% water
changes every 3 days if I remember correctly as it totally decimates your
biological filter bacteria (words to that effect on the fine print box,
hehe). I still occasionally get it in my planted low light 3' tank if I
overdose iron or neglect water changes for a month. I've had minor traces
of it in my high light/CO2 4' tank if you look hard enough for a few minutes
amost since it was set up a year ago but have never had to add any azoo
treatment to this tank.

"Michi Henning" wrote in message
...
"Chris_S" wrote in message
...

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere
and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Well, I've never tried it, so I'm looking for people with first-hand
experience
*before* I get all excited :-)

I've heard anecdotes at my LFS that the stuff works. But I don't know
anything else about it. For example, is it safe for crustaceans? (Azoo
Algae Treater is *not*.) Anyway, if anyone has tried the stuff, I'd be
keen to hear how well it worked.

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

Eradicating BBA
 

It worked like a charm for me 10 months ago in my 3' tank. It takes 2 weeks
treatment(1 drop/`15G) although it seems to take about 8 days to actually
kick in and then you'll notice the reduction very very quickly. 30% water
changes every 3 days if I remember correctly as it totally decimates your
biological filter bacteria (words to that effect on the fine print box,
hehe). I still occasionally get it in my planted low light 3' tank if I
overdose iron or neglect water changes for a month. I've had minor traces
of it in my high light/CO2 4' tank if you look hard enough for a few minutes
amost since it was set up a year ago but have never had to add any azoo
treatment to this tank.

"Michi Henning" wrote in message
...
"Chris_S" wrote in message
...

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere
and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Well, I've never tried it, so I'm looking for people with first-hand
experience
*before* I get all excited :-)

I've heard anecdotes at my LFS that the stuff works. But I don't know
anything else about it. For example, is it safe for crustaceans? (Azoo
Algae Treater is *not*.) Anyway, if anyone has tried the stuff, I'd be
keen to hear how well it worked.

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi:

I've tried running the CO2 from 5PPM to 30PPM. You're right having it
higher and more plant growth helps, but the BBA still does not go away.
It
just slows down. I have no problem with any other kind of algae. Just
BBA.

Blackout will have no effect. The doc in the Krib and elsewhere says same
thing. BBA will just go dormant. People have taken out rocks with BBA on
them, let them dry in air 6 months, then put them back in water, and the
BBA
starts right back where it left off. This stuff is HARD to kill. The
only
thing that kills it is Chlorine or Copper Sulphate. Even Copper takes 3-5
days to kill it. Chlorine only takes minutes.

Water control can help or make things worse, but it will never get rid of
it. You could put a rock with BBA in distilled water and the BBA will not
die. Probably just go into hibernation and come back when there are
nutrients around.

The only way I see to kill BBA without killing the plants is Chlorine or
Copper. I've tried everything else. It's time to sterilize the tank.

I'm just kicking myself that I did not sterilize the plants and rocks in
Chlorine when I set this new tank up 2 months ago. I had the perfect
opportunity then to start off with a clean tank. That would have been the
perfect time to get rid of this BBA. Now I see no choice but the hard
way.

Thanks, Chris.

Up your nutrients cut back on the length of light. I had plants with better
growths than my own beard. Cutting out the light doesn't do the trick....
but increasing my light level to @ 2 watts/gallon, upping the CO2, cutting
back 10 hrs a day of light, and the Tom Barr method of dosing nutrients
.......
slowly did the trick. along with manually trimming the worst of it.

A hydrogen peroxide works well if you want to clean up a more delicate
plants.

Now everything is fine, till I forget something .....;-) or go on vacation.

bob

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi:

I've tried running the CO2 from 5PPM to 30PPM. You're right having it
higher and more plant growth helps, but the BBA still does not go away.
It
just slows down. I have no problem with any other kind of algae. Just
BBA.

Blackout will have no effect. The doc in the Krib and elsewhere says same
thing. BBA will just go dormant. People have taken out rocks with BBA on
them, let them dry in air 6 months, then put them back in water, and the
BBA
starts right back where it left off. This stuff is HARD to kill. The
only
thing that kills it is Chlorine or Copper Sulphate. Even Copper takes 3-5
days to kill it. Chlorine only takes minutes.

Water control can help or make things worse, but it will never get rid of
it. You could put a rock with BBA in distilled water and the BBA will not
die. Probably just go into hibernation and come back when there are
nutrients around.

The only way I see to kill BBA without killing the plants is Chlorine or
Copper. I've tried everything else. It's time to sterilize the tank.

I'm just kicking myself that I did not sterilize the plants and rocks in
Chlorine when I set this new tank up 2 months ago. I had the perfect
opportunity then to start off with a clean tank. That would have been the
perfect time to get rid of this BBA. Now I see no choice but the hard
way.

Thanks, Chris.

Up your nutrients cut back on the length of light. I had plants with better
growths than my own beard. Cutting out the light doesn't do the trick....
but increasing my light level to @ 2 watts/gallon, upping the CO2, cutting
back 10 hrs a day of light, and the Tom Barr method of dosing nutrients
.......
slowly did the trick. along with manually trimming the worst of it.

A hydrogen peroxide works well if you want to clean up a more delicate
plants.

Now everything is fine, till I forget something .....;-) or go on vacation.

bob

Eradicating BBA
 

It worked like a charm for me 10 months ago in my 3' tank. It takes 2 weeks
treatment(1 drop/`15G) although it seems to take about 8 days to actually
kick in and then you'll notice the reduction very very quickly. 30% water
changes every 3 days if I remember correctly as it totally decimates your
biological filter bacteria (words to that effect on the fine print box,
hehe). I still occasionally get it in my planted low light 3' tank if I
overdose iron or neglect water changes for a month. I've had minor traces
of it in my high light/CO2 4' tank if you look hard enough for a few minutes
amost since it was set up a year ago but have never had to add any azoo
treatment to this tank.

"Michi Henning" wrote in message
...
"Chris_S" wrote in message
...

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere
and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Well, I've never tried it, so I'm looking for people with first-hand
experience
*before* I get all excited :-)

I've heard anecdotes at my LFS that the stuff works. But I don't know
anything else about it. For example, is it safe for crustaceans? (Azoo
Algae Treater is *not*.) Anyway, if anyone has tried the stuff, I'd be
keen to hear how well it worked.

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi:

I've tried running the CO2 from 5PPM to 30PPM. You're right having it
higher and more plant growth helps, but the BBA still does not go away.
It
just slows down. I have no problem with any other kind of algae. Just
BBA.

Blackout will have no effect. The doc in the Krib and elsewhere says same
thing. BBA will just go dormant. People have taken out rocks with BBA on
them, let them dry in air 6 months, then put them back in water, and the
BBA
starts right back where it left off. This stuff is HARD to kill. The
only
thing that kills it is Chlorine or Copper Sulphate. Even Copper takes 3-5
days to kill it. Chlorine only takes minutes.

Water control can help or make things worse, but it will never get rid of
it. You could put a rock with BBA in distilled water and the BBA will not
die. Probably just go into hibernation and come back when there are
nutrients around.

The only way I see to kill BBA without killing the plants is Chlorine or
Copper. I've tried everything else. It's time to sterilize the tank.

I'm just kicking myself that I did not sterilize the plants and rocks in
Chlorine when I set this new tank up 2 months ago. I had the perfect
opportunity then to start off with a clean tank. That would have been the
perfect time to get rid of this BBA. Now I see no choice but the hard
way.

Thanks, Chris.

Up your nutrients cut back on the length of light. I had plants with better
growths than my own beard. Cutting out the light doesn't do the trick....
but increasing my light level to @ 2 watts/gallon, upping the CO2, cutting
back 10 hrs a day of light, and the Tom Barr method of dosing nutrients
.......
slowly did the trick. along with manually trimming the worst of it.

A hydrogen peroxide works well if you want to clean up a more delicate
plants.

Now everything is fine, till I forget something .....;-) or go on vacation.

bob

Eradicating BBA
 

That's very encouraging news.

Where did you buy it? I can't find anywhere in the USA that has it.

Thanks, Chris.




"Tasslehoff Burfoot" wrote in message
...
It worked like a charm for me 10 months ago in my 3' tank. It takes 2
weeks
treatment(1 drop/`15G) although it seems to take about 8 days to actually
kick in and then you'll notice the reduction very very quickly. 30% water
changes every 3 days if I remember correctly as it totally decimates your
biological filter bacteria (words to that effect on the fine print box,
hehe). I still occasionally get it in my planted low light 3' tank if I
overdose iron or neglect water changes for a month. I've had minor traces
of it in my high light/CO2 4' tank if you look hard enough for a few
minutes
amost since it was set up a year ago but have never had to add any azoo
treatment to this tank.

"Michi Henning" wrote in message
...
"Chris_S" wrote in message
...

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere
and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very
good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Well, I've never tried it, so I'm looking for people with first-hand
experience
*before* I get all excited :-)

I've heard anecdotes at my LFS that the stuff works. But I don't know
anything else about it. For example, is it safe for crustaceans? (Azoo
Algae Treater is *not*.) Anyway, if anyone has tried the stuff, I'd be
keen to hear how well it worked.

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi:

There was no phosphate in the water at all.

Well, there's your problem. Or at least one of them. There's a very simple
and frequently mentioned principle to getting rid of algae. FOCUS ON THE
PLANTS. Give them abundant nutrients, including NO3, PO4, & K, but most
importantly CO2. Forget about the algae for a while. When the plants are at
their *optimal* health, the algae will go away automatically. If you still
have algae, then your plants not at their peak health. Don't ask me how this
works, but it works for sure. It might have something to do with O2 levels,
I don't know. As you probably found out, it's impossible to kill BBA by
trying to starve it. Here are the nutrient levels you need to keep:

CO2: 25-35 ppm (at all times)
NO3: 5-15 ppm
PO4: at least 0.5 ppm
K: ~20 ppm estimated

For traces, you need to watch for iron deficiency and add as much of your
trace supplement as necessary to keep it from occuring. You have to obtain
some KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4, and either Seachem Flourish or Tropica MasterGrow,
if you don't have these already. Check the archive of this newsgroup for
sources of these. You'd probably have to add around 3/4 tsp of each KNO3 and
K2SO4, and a few pinches of KH2PO4 per week, but search the archive for more
thorough instructions.

Yet the BBA on the plants which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA.

Not true. How is it that so many planted tanks have flourishing plants, no
algae eaters, and no visible BBA? It's not because algae cells simply don't
exist in those tanks.


So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to do
is:

Any other suggestions or advice?

Yes, don't even consider it. As far as I'm concerned, your method is
short-sighted and the complete OPPOSITE of what you should be doing. It does
nothing beneficial for plants. It may kill your fish, and more likely than
not will lead you to more frustration because of this or other algae issues.
Support for methods like this makes me kind of angry, because they
completely disregard the proper way of controlling algae, by caring for the
plants. It's been established and is discussed frequently on this newsgroup
and on the Aquatic Plants Digest by Tom Barr and others. First try feeding
your plants adequately, and *then* use poisonous substances to try to kill
algae if you want. But the only thing that will work for you is keeping the
nutrient levels high, if you ask me.
__
Alex
pcalex (at) hotpop.com

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

There are products available in the US that achieve the same result and
probably cost much less. They are called plant nutrients, i.e. Potassium
Nitrate, Potassium Sulphate, etc. The only side effect is that they make
your plants grow.
__
Alex
pcalex (at) hotpop.com

Eradicating BBA
 

Go Alex, very sound advice IMO !!!
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**





"Alex R" wrote in message
news:m2z5c.23159$J05.163678@attbi_s01...
"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi:

There was no phosphate in the water at all.

Well, there's your problem. Or at least one of them. There's a very simple
and frequently mentioned principle to getting rid of algae. FOCUS ON THE
PLANTS. Give them abundant nutrients, including NO3, PO4, & K, but most
importantly CO2. Forget about the algae for a while. When the plants are
at
their *optimal* health, the algae will go away automatically. If you still
have algae, then your plants not at their peak health. Don't ask me how
this
works, but it works for sure. It might have something to do with O2
levels,
I don't know. As you probably found out, it's impossible to kill BBA by
trying to starve it. Here are the nutrient levels you need to keep:

CO2: 25-35 ppm (at all times)
NO3: 5-15 ppm
PO4: at least 0.5 ppm
K: ~20 ppm estimated

For traces, you need to watch for iron deficiency and add as much of your
trace supplement as necessary to keep it from occuring. You have to obtain
some KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4, and either Seachem Flourish or Tropica
MasterGrow,
if you don't have these already. Check the archive of this newsgroup for
sources of these. You'd probably have to add around 3/4 tsp of each KNO3
and
K2SO4, and a few pinches of KH2PO4 per week, but search the archive for
more
thorough instructions.

Yet the BBA on the plants which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA.

Not true. How is it that so many planted tanks have flourishing plants, no
algae eaters, and no visible BBA? It's not because algae cells simply
don't
exist in those tanks.


So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to
do
is:

Any other suggestions or advice?

Yes, don't even consider it. As far as I'm concerned, your method is
short-sighted and the complete OPPOSITE of what you should be doing. It
does
nothing beneficial for plants. It may kill your fish, and more likely than
not will lead you to more frustration because of this or other algae
issues.
Support for methods like this makes me kind of angry, because they
completely disregard the proper way of controlling algae, by caring for
the
plants. It's been established and is discussed frequently on this
newsgroup
and on the Aquatic Plants Digest by Tom Barr and others. First try feeding
your plants adequately, and *then* use poisonous substances to try to kill
algae if you want. But the only thing that will work for you is keeping
the
nutrient levels high, if you ask me.
__
Alex
pcalex (at) hotpop.com

Eradicating BBA
 

There was no phosphate in the water at all.

Well, there's your problem.

Gee, for years other people told me that the cause of BBA was too much
phosphate. Now you say having no phosphate causes it. This is typical of
the conflicting information I often here about BBA problems.

Obviously you are of the camp that believes you can control BBA with the
water. I bought into that mentality for years, and fought the BBA using
that method. The BBA won. Maybe for some people, their water, their
plants, and their type of BBA, that method can have some success. But it is
very clear from everything else I have read that more and more 'water
treatment' people are becoming convinced that BBA is a different kind of
problem entirely.

I have seen really nice show aquariums with tons of plant growth and no BBA.
When I ask the aqua person how they did it, they tell me: "I rinse every
plant in Chlorine before I put it in the tank - I don't let BBA in the
tank". That is how they handle it, they prevent it.

Once it gets in it's like cancer. Some may go into remission, some may go
away, some may respond to therapy, but in most cases it will keep growing.

I've had plant growth through the top of the tank. Swords with 24 inch
leaves, and so much plant growth I had to prune plants every week. Yet the
BBA never went away. I've read articles from other people who believed that
water control could combat BBA as well, yet they were left scratching their
heads when they lost the fight and the BBA kept growing.

I do not know if you have any BBA in your tank(s) right now, but if you
would really like to test your theories in practice, I would be happy to
send you some of mine. I can send you a rock or plant with the BBA species
I have. Just let me know.

Regards, Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

SNIP

Up your nutrients cut back on the length of light. I had plants with
better
growths than my own beard. Cutting out the light doesn't do the trick....
but increasing my light level to @ 2 watts/gallon, upping the CO2, cutting
back 10 hrs a day of light, and the Tom Barr method of dosing nutrients
......
slowly did the trick. along with manually trimming the worst of it.

A hydrogen peroxide works well if you want to clean up a more delicate
plants.

Now everything is fine, till I forget something .....;-) or go on
vacation.

bob



Is there a website that elaborates on the Tom Barr method of dosing?

Thanks,
Harry




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Eradicating BBA
 

There was no phosphate in the water at all.
Well, there's your problem.
Gee, for years other people told me that the cause of BBA was too much
phosphate. Now you say having no phosphate causes it. This is
typical of the conflicting information I often here about BBA
problems.

Obviously you are of the camp that believes you can control BBA with
the water. I bought into that mentality for years, and fought the
BBA using that method. The BBA won. Maybe for some people, their
water, their plants, and their type of BBA, that method can have some
success. But it is very clear from everything else I have read that
more and more 'water treatment' people are becoming convinced that
BBA is a different kind of problem entirely.

I have seen really nice show aquariums with tons of plant growth and
no BBA. When I ask the aqua person how they did it, they tell me: "I
rinse every plant in Chlorine before I put it in the tank - I don't
let BBA in the tank". That is how they handle it, they prevent it.

Once it gets in it's like cancer. Some may go into remission, some
may go away, some may respond to therapy, but in most cases it will
keep growing.

I've had plant growth through the top of the tank. Swords with 24
inch leaves, and so much plant growth I had to prune plants every
week. Yet the BBA never went away. I've read articles from other
people who believed that water control could combat BBA as well, yet
they were left scratching their heads when they lost the fight and
the BBA kept growing.

I do not know if you have any BBA in your tank(s) right now, but if
you would really like to test your theories in practice, I would be
happy to send you some of mine. I can send you a rock or plant with
the BBA species I have. Just let me know.

Regards, Chris.

I see that your situation has set your mind already.... it's easy to give
up, easier than fixing the problem and I admit, I have been battling BBA for
4 months and what caused mine, is a three fold effect. 1, ran out of CO2, 2
days... only 2 days and it started. 2, PMDD ran out... 3, water changes
were neglected for an extra 2 weeks....

In a period of 2 weeks, my tank went haywire... 2 swords that were
beautiful, covered, my anubias, trashed, sunset hygro, wadded up with BBA...

The only way I know to fix it, was to clean what algae I could, manually...
Soak whatever equipment in Chlorine bleach, and startup the CO2 and ferts
again... 2 weeks later, it's not growing, but its' a daily manual removal
routine that I get into, and it's getting better every day....

There is hope, but only if youre not in denial, that you MUST do something,
it isn't such an easy fix that it'll just hit you one day... it's a serious
method of nutrients, and CO2... you can deny all you want... Tom Barr knows
his stuff...


--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!!

==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
1987 TRX250R (sold)
1987 CBR600 Hurricane (sold)
1987 VFR700 Interceptor (sold)
1995 TRX300ex (sold)
2000 CBR600F4 silver/red (sold) *sniff*sniff*
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.
By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
whichever is greater, for each violation."

If you do send me unsolicited e-mail I will proof-read it at a rate
of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).

Eradicating BBA
 

I guess I no longer believe that there are any water conditions under which
BBA will not survive. Sure you can make it grow faster or slower, but the
point is it keeps growing once it is in your tank. That is not true with
Green algae. That you can control and essentially make it disappear. I've
never had any significant problem with Green algae.

BBA is Red algae (Rhodophytes) and is NOT at all related to Green algae
(Chlorophytes). There are over 5000 species of Red algae of which about 200
are freshwater. Most are sal****er. This is seaweed. BBA is really
nothing more than freshwater seaweed, and is of a completely different
nature than Green algae. It is probably unfortunate that the common term
"algae" is use for both because they are totally different.

I hear a lot of people describing water treatment methods that certainly
have a big affect when dealing with Green algae. But I no longer believe
that these methods are relavant or anywhere near as useful for Red algae.
Red algae does not respond in the same way at all - it is tenacious.

Nick Franks wrote a good article about Red Algae in 1996. As he says, Red
Algae is designed to survive on low nutrients. You cannot starve it out of
existence. It can survive a long time without photosynthesis. Your plants
will die long before it does. The whole point of his article was that once
you get it in your tank, you're in for a battle. There's no winning in this
game, just minimizing your defeat. His #1 recommendation was to eliminate
it before it gets in your tank.

Once you have it in your tank, well I guess you could say it's probably like
having Herpes. You just have to learn how to live with it. I am fed up
living with it and I want it out.

Regards, Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

I had a bad outbreak of BBA after an overdose of Seachem Flourish. The stuff
was probably already in the tank, but the Flourish overdose made it spread
very fast.

I tried starving it, and I tried the blackout - neither was not enough.

Last weekend, I trimmed a lot of the leaves that were infested in the faster
growing plants. Then I took out the anoubias and java fern and soaked them
in a bleach solution. I got distracted, and the anubias was left in the
solution for over 10 minutes. By the time I noticed, the BBA was freeling
falling off its leaves. Where the plants were soaked for only 4 minutes, I
had to rub it off and it took some doing. I also soaked my mopani wood where
the BBA had started growing, then scrubbed it with a brush. I could not get
it off the "bananas" of the banana plant eventhough it (the algae) was
bleached dead. Whatever I could not scrub off, turned white to reddish when
it was returned to the tank.

I still have it on the dwarf hairgrass even after a very short haircut. But
now, my SAE appear to be keeping it under control. Who knows, I may follow
in Chris's footsteps if I get fed up in the future.

Eradicating BBA
 

"Nemo" wrote in message
Last weekend, I trimmed a lot of the leaves that were infested in the
faster
growing plants. Then I took out the anoubias and java fern and soaked them
in a bleach solution. I got distracted, and the anubias was left in the
solution for over 10 minutes. By the time I noticed, the BBA was freeling
falling off its leaves. Where the plants were soaked for only 4 minutes, I
had to rub it off and it took some doing. I also soaked my mopani wood
where
the BBA had started growing, then scrubbed it with a brush. I could not
get
it off the "bananas" of the banana plant eventhough it (the algae) was
bleached dead. Whatever I could not scrub off, turned white to reddish
when
it was returned to the tank.

I still have it on the dwarf hairgrass even after a very short haircut.
But
now, my SAE appear to be keeping it under control. Who knows, I may follow
in Chris's footsteps if I get fed up in the future.

I can only offer 2 words of advice...

Manual Removal - if it's not there, it_Can't_ grow... right?

If you have it, you must "Manually Remove" what you can... on substrate,
plants, equipment... entirely submersing them in chlorine will chemically
remove it... getting rid of it, totally is a hard job... slow but steady
manual removal is indeed the slowest but most promising method. A little at
a time, will rid your tank of it...

Ok, with that said, I ask, will it grow back? If you repeat what started
it, yes... If you follow a somewhat strict regimen of CO2, Ferts, and water
changes, it'll probably STOP growing, go dormant and may even subside...
that I cannot prove, but mine is no longer growing....

When all else seems like it'll too fail, you can always try what someone
suggests... it doesn't hurt.. I was the one saying I was going to tear this
tank down to the stand and clean it... instead, I removed it manually, added
CO2, and ferts, and slowly but surely, it's being removed.... daily.

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike streetfighter!!!

==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
1987 TRX250R (sold)
1987 CBR600 Hurricane (sold)
1987 VFR700 Interceptor (sold)
1995 TRX300ex (sold)
2000 CBR600F4 silver/red (sold) *sniff*sniff*
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.
By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
whichever is greater, for each violation."

If you do send me unsolicited e-mail I will proof-read it at a rate
of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).

Eradicating BBA
 

Manual Removal - if it's not there, it_Can't_ grow... right?

Wrong. Red algae is designed to survive in fast moving stream water by
nailing itself to rocks, wood, and plants. This stuff is related to
coraline in the sea. Ever tried pulling barnacles off rocks at the coast?
Not easy and certainly not fun. Epoxy cement has real competition here.

It is extremely tough just trying to scrape BBA off plastic tubes, virtually
impossible to get it off of wood, and IS impossible to get it off other
plants without ripping them to shreds!

Going through all that work and nightmare may make it less visible for a
short time, but you have done absolutely nothing to remove it from the
system. There are spores in the water, there are fragments still remaining
on all of the surfaces. You will never get rid of it mechanically. It will
just keep coming back. Physical removal is a total waste of time and
effort unless you have chemically killed it first.

I'm convinced that sterilization by Chlorine or equiv. is the only way to be
rid of this stuff. Perhaps the AZOO Brush Algae Killer does the trick. It
appears that no one in the USA or Canada has this stuff yet. I'm still
looking for it.

It should be noted, as NEMO said in the previous post, even after you kill
this stuff it still does not decay away. The threads are still there, dead
and bleached out white. Now ask yourself, if this stuff was anything like
Green algae, why doesn't it just fad away as soon as you kill it? Because
Red Algae is very different. The threads are made of very tough fiberous
material - its freshwater seaweed.

Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

Update: AZOO Brush Algae Killer

For those of you like me that are interested in the "Kill all BBA" approach,
and live in the USA, I'm afraid we are stuck with Chlorox or Copper as the
only methods. Looks like our wonderful Green terrorists, EPA, and DEQ are
trying to put the aquarium business out of business too.

I just got done talking with the AZOO importer Aquatic-ECO Systems for the
USA. They cannot bring this stuff in because of the "product title". They
say having "ALGAE" and "KILLER" in the same sentence brings the EPA down on
them like a ton of bricks. They told me it is becoming very difficult and
expensive to bring anything like this into the USA anymore. They have to
pay huge taxes, fees, and attorneys to do it.

I think I will talk to some of my friends in Asia have them buy some locally
and send it to me.

Hey, in a few more years they will probably outlaw all bug spray and
weed-be-gone here in the states. I guess we will just have to
"mechanically" remove all pests and weeds everywhere.

Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Update: AZOO Brush Algae Killer

For those of you like me that are interested in the "Kill all BBA"
approach,
and live in the USA, I'm afraid we are stuck with Chlorox or Copper as the
only methods. Looks like our wonderful Green terrorists, EPA, and DEQ are
trying to put the aquarium business out of business too.

I just got done talking with the AZOO importer Aquatic-ECO Systems for the
USA. They cannot bring this stuff in because of the "product title".
They
say having "ALGAE" and "KILLER" in the same sentence brings the EPA down
on
them like a ton of bricks. They told me it is becoming very difficult and
expensive to bring anything like this into the USA anymore. They have to
pay huge taxes, fees, and attorneys to do it.

I think I will talk to some of my friends in Asia have them buy some
locally
and send it to me.

Hey, in a few more years they will probably outlaw all bug spray and
weed-be-gone here in the states. I guess we will just have to
"mechanically" remove all pests and weeds everywhere.

Chris.



Can you find it online for sale anywhere, especially in Europe? They might
be willing to ship to the US.

Harry




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Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Update: AZOO Brush Algae Killer

For those of you like me that are interested in the "Kill all BBA"
approach,
and live in the USA, I'm afraid we are stuck with Chlorox or Copper as the
only methods. Looks like our wonderful Green terrorists, EPA, and DEQ are
trying to put the aquarium business out of business too.

I just got done talking with the AZOO importer Aquatic-ECO Systems for the
USA. They cannot bring this stuff in because of the "product title".
They
say having "ALGAE" and "KILLER" in the same sentence brings the EPA down
on
them like a ton of bricks. They told me it is becoming very difficult and
expensive to bring anything like this into the USA anymore. They have to
pay huge taxes, fees, and attorneys to do it.

I think I will talk to some of my friends in Asia have them buy some
locally
and send it to me.

Hey, in a few more years they will probably outlaw all bug spray and
weed-be-gone here in the states. I guess we will just have to
"mechanically" remove all pests and weeds everywhere.

Chris.



Check with these guys:
http://www.adelaideaquariums.com.au/...reatments.html . They used to
have the product you want listed, can't find it right now, but they might
still carry it. Send them an e-mail maybe. According to the web address,
they're located in Australia, which means they probably wouldn't have a
problem sending the stuff to the US. Anyway, just a thought.

Harry




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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Eradicating BBA
 

Manual Removal - if it's not there, it_Can't_ grow... right?

Wrong. Red algae is designed to survive in fast moving stream water by
nailing itself to rocks, wood, and plants. This stuff is related to
coraline in the sea. Ever tried pulling barnacles off rocks at the coast?
Not easy and certainly not fun. Epoxy cement has real competition here.

It is extremely tough just trying to scrape BBA off plastic tubes,
virtually
impossible to get it off of wood, and IS impossible to get it off other
plants without ripping them to shreds!

Going through all that work and nightmare may make it less visible for a
short time, but you have done absolutely nothing to remove it from the
system. There are spores in the water, there are fragments still
remaining
on all of the surfaces. You will never get rid of it mechanically. It
will
just keep coming back. Physical removal is a total waste of time and
effort unless you have chemically killed it first.

I'm convinced that sterilization by Chlorine or equiv. is the only way to
be
rid of this stuff. Perhaps the AZOO Brush Algae Killer does the trick.
It
appears that no one in the USA or Canada has this stuff yet. I'm still
looking for it.

It should be noted, as NEMO said in the previous post, even after you kill
this stuff it still does not decay away. The threads are still there,
dead
and bleached out white. Now ask yourself, if this stuff was anything like
Green algae, why doesn't it just fad away as soon as you kill it? Because
Red Algae is very different. The threads are made of very tough fiberous
material - its freshwater seaweed.

Chris.


My bad, I thought you were asking how others deal with it, when they had
it... I didn't realize you'd already made up your mind and was just
searching for a specific answer to confirm you're already made up mind...

I've been dealing with it for 4 months, and not really having a major spaz
about it, it's not growing anymore, it's declining, and nuking the tank
isn't one of my preferred methods of fixing stuff...

I hope you have some luck with azoo, or clorox, whichever method you choose,
as I'll be one that is sincerely interested in what you learn, find and if
and when you report back here, we'll go from there....

Thanks for your time...

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike streetfighter!!!

==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
1987 TRX250R (sold)
1987 CBR600 Hurricane (sold)
1987 VFR700 Interceptor (sold)
1995 TRX300ex (sold)
2000 CBR600F4 silver/red (sold) *sniff*sniff*
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.
By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
whichever is greater, for each violation."

If you do send me unsolicited e-mail I will proof-read it at a rate
of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).

Eradicating BBA
 

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
There was no phosphate in the water at all.

Well, there's your problem.

Gee, for years other people told me that the cause of BBA was too much
phosphate. Now you say having no phosphate causes it. This is typical of
the conflicting information I often here about BBA problems.

Obviously you are of the camp that believes you can control BBA with the
water. I bought into that mentality for years, and fought the BBA using
that method. The BBA won. Maybe for some people, their water, their
plants, and their type of BBA, that method can have some success. But it
is
very clear from everything else I have read that more and more 'water
treatment' people are becoming convinced that BBA is a different kind of
problem entirely.

A single thing causing algae is a really bad way to think about it. So is
thinking that you can control it with water conditions. Sure, if you make
the water conditions perfect for the plants, the algae will subside. But
remove the plants, the algae will flourish under the same water parameters.
Again, it helps tremendously to think about the plant health, not the algae.
I know it's not easy because it's counterintuitive, and because we don't
know exactly why it works.

I have seen really nice show aquariums with tons of plant growth and no
BBA.
When I ask the aqua person how they did it, they tell me: "I rinse every
plant in Chlorine before I put it in the tank - I don't let BBA in the
tank". That is how they handle it, they prevent it.

That's because the plant care methodology is a relatively new idea and
because those people probably don't follow the online plant forums very
much. Those folks probably never even heard of adding phosphate.

I've had plant growth through the top of the tank. Swords with 24 inch
leaves, and so much plant growth I had to prune plants every week. Yet
the
BBA never went away. I've read articles from other people who believed
that
water control could combat BBA as well, yet they were left scratching
their
heads when they lost the fight and the BBA kept growing.

That doesn't prove your plants were at the *peak* of their health. When I
say the plants must be as healthy as possible, I don't mean they should
simply be growing "well". I mean, they should be growing as fast as possible
under the available lighting, with every other nutrient being available to
support that growth. In effect, the lighting should be the limiting
nutrient. That means if 30 ppm CO2 is required for that kind of growth, then
25 ppm will not suffice. I don't see any indication that you have seriously
tried to satisfy your plants' every nutrient requirement in this way. It
doesn't matter if your plants appear to grow well. If they can grow better
still with the addition of some nutrient, then they are not growing their
best.

Maybe you can provide some details about tank such the lighting, what kind
of CO2 system, the daily CO2 levels, your dosing regimen and the amount and
type of plants, and we can advise you on what you can do to help the plants.

I do not know if you have any BBA in your tank(s) right now, but if you
would really like to test your theories in practice, I would be happy to
send you some of mine. I can send you a rock or plant with the BBA
species
I have. Just let me know.

Almost every tank has BBA cells in it, including mine. You cannot kill every
last algae cell with nutrient control. That's not the goal. I've had every
kind of algae for the first year of keeping plants (except GW). Believe me,
I was as frustrated as you are. I too was focusing on starving the algae.
All it did was change the predominant type of algae in my tank. Like you,
people were telling me that I should not have even a trace of PO4 in my
tank. I couldn't understand why I couldn't get a reading on my PO4 test, and
yet the algae was choking the plants. But then I started paying attention to
Tom Barr's posts on the APD, where he was suggesting supplementing PO4
instead of depriving your plants of it. That's what did it for me. I was
already adding everything else but PO4, and had a compressed CO2 system.
Since then, I've had minor algae outbreaks here and there. And it turned out
that each time the fix was to *increase* the amount of some nutrient,
whether it was CO2, NO3, or PO4. I keep my CO2 fairly high. But if it slips
for some reason, I get an almost immediate algae outbreak, even if the CO2
is still above 20 ppm. I still have some filamentous algae on the Rotalla
wallichi, which is the hardest plant to grow in my tank. That's why it's
probably the least healthy. I'm sure the solution is in adding the nutrients
more frequently than twice a week, so that the levels never fall very low.

If you send me a plant with algae on it, the algae will disappear through
pruning of old leaves and will not grow on the new ones. If you send me a
rock, it might actually take a long time for the algae to actually die off.
But if I clean off as much of it as possible first, it will not regrow
either.
__
Alex
pcalex (at) hotpop.com

Eradicating BBA
 

Maybe you can provide some details about tank such the lighting, what kind
of CO2 system, the daily CO2 levels, your dosing regimen and the amount
and
type of plants, and we can advise you on what you can do to help the
plants.

Here are some specs:

- Tank 100G
- Intake/Return pairs on each end of tank through bottom.
- Filters: Eheim 2226 and Eheim 2227 Wet/Dry.
2226 is for heating, CO2, and mechanical filtration.
2227 is for bio treatment, nitrogen cycle.
- Ebo Jager 250W Heater in Lifeguard A92-19 Heater Module.under cabinet.
- DIY CO2 injected into Heater module on 2226 return, 100% diffusion.
- (2) PowerCompact 65W 6700K lights.
- Test Kits: LaMotte, Salifert, Seachem.
- Flourite mixed into gravel with some tetra sticks.
- I have used Seachem Flourish, Potasium, Iron adders, and Vitragro, etc.
- About 16 fish right now, 5 very large angels. Pleco, 4-SAEs, 4-Octa, some
corys, etc.
- Plants, more than I can name. the swords got so big I finally had to get
rid of half of them. Crypts, some large ferns, apogeton, Valliseria, java
moss, lotus, some bush type plants I can't remember.

Temp: 80F
pH: 6.8
Ammon: 0 PPM
Nitrites: 0 PPM
Nitrates: 15PPM
Phos: 0.5 PPM
GH: 6 deg
Iron: 0.1 PPM
CO2: 25PPM

Like I said this new tank is only 6 weeks old, and I am still working on
getting the iron back up. The tank is weak right now on Nitrate and Iron.

I keep my CO2 fairly high. But if it slips for some reason,
I get an almost immediate algae outbreak, even if the CO2
is still above 20 ppm.

Yeh of course, that's because your nutients are so high.

I've been running tanks for 20 years. I know most of the things that can go
wrong, why, and how to fix them. But BBA is different. Years ago even in
tanks where the water was garbage, out of wack, I had green algae but never
any BBA. After I got BBA 5 years ago, it makes no difference how good or
bad the water is. The BBA is always there regardless. That's why I've
given up on water control for BBA.

Thanks, Chris.

Eradicating BBA
 

Check with these guys:
http://www.adelaideaquariums.com.au/...reatments.html . They used
to
have the product you want listed, can't find it right now, but they might
still carry it. Send them an e-mail maybe. According to the web address,
they're located in Australia, which means they probably wouldn't have a
problem sending the stuff to the US. Anyway, just a thought.

Thanks, yeh I saw that site as well had it. Another in Spain, Mexico, and a
couple others as I recall in Taiwan. I may try them.

Chris.