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Black Slime Algae
Anyone got any good remedies for black slime algae covering everything in my
tank?? I keep cleaning it out, and doing massive water changes, but it still keeps growing!! Arrrgghh! Heavily planted tank CO2 injection ph 6.8 |
Have you tried reducing feedings? Or changing the lighting?
"Troy Bruder" wrote in message ... Anyone got any good remedies for black slime algae covering everything in my tank?? I keep cleaning it out, and doing massive water changes, but it still keeps growing!! Arrrgghh! Heavily planted tank CO2 injection ph 6.8 |
I have significantly reduced feedings... My current light (10k pc) is
almost 12 months old... I figured it would last 18 months, but maybe that's it. Thanks for the heads up.. Until I replace it, maybe I'll try massive water changes every other day.. Troy "Limnophile" wrote in message ... Have you tried reducing feedings? Or changing the lighting? "Troy Bruder" wrote in message ... Anyone got any good remedies for black slime algae covering everything in my tank?? I keep cleaning it out, and doing massive water changes, but it still keeps growing!! Arrrgghh! Heavily planted tank CO2 injection ph 6.8 |
You might try buying a timer so your lights can go off for a few hours during the day. This helps stop algae from growing. So I was told in the newsgroups and lo and behold, it works. The algae in my tank is nearly gone---it has taken about six weeks, but the difference is amazing. "Troy Bruder" wrote in message ... I have significantly reduced feedings... My current light (10k pc) is almost 12 months old... I figured it would last 18 months, but maybe that's it. Thanks for the heads up.. Until I replace it, maybe I'll try massive water changes every other day.. Troy "Limnophile" wrote in message ... Have you tried reducing feedings? Or changing the lighting? "Troy Bruder" wrote in message ... Anyone got any good remedies for black slime algae covering everything in my tank?? I keep cleaning it out, and doing massive water changes, but it still keeps growing!! Arrrgghh! Heavily planted tank CO2 injection ph 6.8 |
Troy Bruder wrote:
Anyone got any good remedies for black slime algae covering everything in my tank?? I keep cleaning it out, and doing massive water changes, but it still keeps growing!! Arrrgghh! It might actually be blue-green algae which 1) can be a variety of colors, and 2) isn't actually an algae, but rather a bacteria. I've been struggling with an algae that fits the descriotion you gave - black slime - and I'm giving serious thought to medicating the tank with a general anti-bacterial agent of some sort. -- Eric Schreiber www.ericschreiber.com |
"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message ...
Troy Bruder wrote: Anyone got any good remedies for black slime algae covering everything in my tank?? I keep cleaning it out, and doing massive water changes, but it still keeps growing!! Arrrgghh! It might actually be blue-green algae which 1) can be a variety of colors, and 2) isn't actually an algae, but rather a bacteria. I've been struggling with an algae that fits the descriotion you gave - black slime - and I'm giving serious thought to medicating the tank with a general anti-bacterial agent of some sort. See blackout method, this will help your plants and take less time, is certainly the cheapest method and the easiest, fastest etc. Remove the algae that's there, do a 50% water change, add 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3 per 80 liters of tank. Clean filter before water change. Turn off CO2/lights and cover so that no light gets in with trash bag, towels etc. Wait three days, remove the bags and turn light/CO2 back on, do another 50% water change and add the KNO3 back and thereafter 2x a week. You do this, you will not have the BGA come back. But you can try the other methods which are not free nor address the root cause. This method has nothing to lose and is 100% effective if you follow the directions. If you do a controlled mid day sieta, you will find it does not do anything. If you have slightly poor.insufficent CO2, this gives a chance for your unpowered CO2 diffuser set up to catch up since plants stop taking in CO2 when the lights are off. The light itself does not cause the algae to go away and the 3 blackout makes algae die fast, not weeks later and also helps to grow the plants by adding what caused the plants not to grow well(lack of NO3), which is why you have the algae in the first place. Regards, Tom Barr |
"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
... wrote: See blackout method, this will help your plants and take less time, is certainly the cheapest method and the easiest, fastest etc. I've read lots of comments that the blackout approach has little or no effect on cyanobacteria, since they aren't dependent on light like conventional algae. They are indeed photosynthesising, why are they green?? The tank in which I'm having problems isn't planted (not quite correct - I've tossed a handful of najas into it to try to out-compete the BGA for nutrients), and I don't do any CO2 injection at all. I believe my root causes are that I overfeed (which I'm correcting) and that the tank is now so overrun with BGA that moderately drastic measures are needed to bring it under control. I've already started treating with Myacin. If the five day cycle doesn't have any effect, I'll give your instructions a whirl. You would feel much more accomplished if you defeated the beast without the aid of antibiotics! Do deep gravel cleanings and clean out your filter thoroughly, 70-80% waterchange. This will help alot too. -- **So long, and thanks for all the fish!** |
Here's what I discovered...
1. My light was definately shot... The new bulb was an immediate improvement in the quality of light.. It was also nice to see my plants "pearling" once again with two hours of the new bulb being installed. Lesson learned, 11 month replacement cycle for PC bulbs! 2. When I refilled my CO2 tank 3 weeks ago, I NEVER TURNED IT ON!!! Ugh... So between my light spectrum issues, and the fact that I haven't have pressured CO2 in almost a month, probably has led to the massive imbalance within my tank... I'm willing to bet it returns to "normal" within a week or two now! Troy "blank" wrote in message ... You might try buying a timer so your lights can go off for a few hours during the day. This helps stop algae from growing. So I was told in the newsgroups and lo and behold, it works. The algae in my tank is nearly gone---it has taken about six weeks, but the difference is amazing. "Troy Bruder" wrote in message ... I have significantly reduced feedings... My current light (10k pc) is almost 12 months old... I figured it would last 18 months, but maybe that's it. Thanks for the heads up.. Until I replace it, maybe I'll try massive water changes every other day.. Troy "Limnophile" wrote in message ... Have you tried reducing feedings? Or changing the lighting? "Troy Bruder" wrote in message ... Anyone got any good remedies for black slime algae covering everything in my tank?? I keep cleaning it out, and doing massive water changes, but it still keeps growing!! Arrrgghh! Heavily planted tank CO2 injection ph 6.8 |
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Happy'Cam'per wrote:
They are indeed photosynthesising, why are they green?? While Cyanobacteria can photosynthesize, that is not it's only source for nutrients. It is not a plant - it is a bacteria. Unlike 'regular' algae, it is not dependent upon ammonia related products (including nitrite and nitrate), and can directly process molecular nitrogen. Since it isn't dependent upon photosynthesis, a blackout may stunt it but won't kill it - it can employ other food sources. You would feel much more accomplished if you defeated the beast without the aid of antibiotics! Do deep gravel cleanings and clean out your filter thoroughly, 70-80% waterchange. I'm not seeking a sense of accomplishment, I'm just trying to get rid of the BGA. I've done *loads* of gravel cleanings, scrubbing, water changes, and filter changes. In my experience, as long as the conditions in the tank support BGA, any cells that escape the cleaning will spawn the problem over again. -- Eric Schreiber www.ericschreiber.com |
wrote:
Thiose comments are patently incorrect. Nothing personal, but they are. It's that simple. I appreciate your strong opinion, but I find equally strong opinions in the other direction. The Krib has discussions on the subject, and I found numerous mentions via Google as well. BGA are(the species we deal with), as are all algae/plants, totally dependent on light. BGA are not plants, they are bacteria. Though photosynthesis is the preferred mode of nutrition, it is not the only method. (Palinska, Katarzyna A; Horgan, William J and Krumbein, Wolfgang, E (May 2002) Cyanobacteria. In: Nature Encyclopedia of Life Sciences. London: Nature Publishing Group.) Antibiotics do work, my point is not that Myacin does or does not work, I just offers a better method that takes 3 days and is 100% free and addresses the long term problem that you have. Well, the ehtromycin is effectively free, since I already had it on hand. My supply expires in a few months, so it's not as though I'm likely to lose use of it by employing it against BGA. Lots of comments that Blackout does not work? Name one that has done the method I suggested in honesty, and it has not worked? Even one? anyone that claims the 3 day blackout I suggest does not work is frankly full of crap. Ok, thanks, but I'm REALLY not interested in a holy war. You've clearly got a lot of emotional investment in the subject, and I'm afraid I really don't care enough to get into a protracted discussion over it. -- Eric Schreiber www.ericschreiber.com |
"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
news:Ur-dnT5Q_8XQYhrcRVn- I appreciate your strong opinion, but I find equally strong opinions in the other direction. The Krib has discussions on the subject, and I found numerous mentions via Google as well. How old is that info on the Krib, and how qualified were those ppl making the statements? BGA are not plants, they are bacteria. Though photosynthesis is the preferred mode of nutrition, it is not the only method. (Palinska, Katarzyna A; Horgan, William J and Krumbein, Wolfgang, E (May 2002) Cyanobacteria. In: Nature Encyclopedia of Life Sciences. London: Nature Publishing Group. The bacteria have a symbiotic relationship with the photosynthesising systems, if one shuts down, gradually they will die, they cannot function properly without each other. Ok, thanks, but I'm REALLY not interested in a holy war. You've clearly got a lot of emotional investment in the subject, and I'm afraid I really don't care enough to get into a protracted discussion over it. Oh Come on Eric, I think its my turn this time to tell you to get a thicker skin. Tom is offering you perfectly fine advice and you're throwing it back in his face, he offered to help you out and then you get defensive!!! Use those antibiotics of yours and I'll bet in 30 days time it'll be back again, really, I've been through this myself. You also run the risk of openeing up your fish to parasites who will be keen on taking advantage of the fish's weakened immune system, antiB's will affect the fish's slime coat and possibly nuke your filter. Be careful. Be sure to let us know how it goes. -- **So long, and thanks for all the thick skin!** |
"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
... algae, it is not dependent upon ammonia related products (including nitrite and nitrate), and can directly process molecular nitrogen. I too thought this but its not true. The type of Cyano that infects OUR fish tanks does not have the ability to fix Nitrogen, its wrong. Apparently only Cyano with heterocysts have this ability. The species in our tanks are sans heterocysts and therefore rely on a Nitrogen source for food. Since it isn't dependent upon photosynthesis, a blackout may stunt it but won't kill it - it can employ other food sources. See above... I'm not seeking a sense of accomplishment, I'm just trying to get rid of the BGA. I've done *loads* of gravel cleanings, scrubbing, water changes, and filter changes. In my experience, as long as the conditions in the tank support BGA, any cells that escape the cleaning will spawn the problem over again. Where do you think it came from in the first place? Once you dose those anti'B's you're going to kill alll the Cyano cells but the conditions in your tank will remain the same, they will return once the AB's wear off. |
I only recently got rid of the blue green algae in my aquarium, after a year
of it growing inch's in size every day. I tried blacking the aquarium out five or six times. each time the blue green algae disappeared after three or four days, but a week or two later it always returned. I put that down to not doing them for long enough but I even tried a six day blackout, and a four day blackout followed by a three day blackout, two days later. and I wrapped my tank up in tin foil, towels, sleeping bags, and all sorts to keep the light out. I finally got rid of it a month ago by using Maracyn. it seems to be gone for good this time. from what I can tell from my experiences with blue green algae it doesn't matter what the water parameters it will still have enough nutrients to be able to grow. it seems to be more to do with bad luck than anything else, if you get it in your tank. Scott "Troy Bruder" wrote in message ... Anyone got any good remedies for black slime algae covering everything in my tank?? I keep cleaning it out, and doing massive water changes, but it still keeps growing!! Arrrgghh! Heavily planted tank CO2 injection ph 6.8 |
"Happy'Cam'per" wrote in message
... Where do you think it came from in the first place? Once you dose those anti'B's you're going to kill alll the Cyano cells but the conditions in your tank will remain the same, they will return once the AB's wear off. According to Tom Barr, a common cause of BGA outbreaks are too low levels of NO3. Do the five day black-out thing, turning off CO2 during that time, and don't fertilize for those five days either. Then do a large (50%) water change, and dose 10-15ppm NO3. Keep CO2 in the 20-30ppm range. Apparently, that puts paid to BGA. Cheers, Michi. -- Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700 ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com |
"Scott" wrote in message
... I only recently got rid of the blue green algae in my aquarium, after a year of it growing inch's in size every day. I tried blacking the aquarium out five or six times. each time the blue green algae disappeared after three or four days, but a week or two later it always returned. I put that down to not doing them for long enough but I even tried a six day blackout, and a four day blackout followed by a three day blackout, two days later. and I wrapped my tank up in tin foil, towels, sleeping bags, and all sorts to keep the light out. I finally got rid of it a month ago by using Maracyn. it seems to be gone for good this time. from what I can tell from my experiences with blue green algae it doesn't matter what the water parameters it will still have enough nutrients to be able to grow. it seems to be more to do with bad luck than anything else, if you get it in your tank. Well the blackout worked for me!!!!!!!!!! You must have that same tenacious new species of Cyano that Eric has... :-) -- **So long, and thanks for all the fish!** |
"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
... wrote: Thiose comments are patently incorrect. Nothing personal, but they are. It's that simple. I appreciate your strong opinion, but I find equally strong opinions in the other direction. The Krib has discussions on the subject, and I found numerous mentions via Google as well. yup, I have seen numerous posters saying the same thing in various plant forums and also in this newsgroup as I have been lurking. Blackout had no affects at all. But some people just can't seem to believe that just because something seemed to work for them does not mean it is written in stone and works all the time. -- Margolis http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm http://www.unrealtower.org/faq |
"Margolis" wrote in message
... "Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message yup, I have seen numerous posters saying the same thing in various plant forums and also in this newsgroup as I have been lurking. Blackout had no affects at all. But some people just can't seem to believe that just because something seemed to work for them does not mean it is written in stone and works all the time. Tom suggested 'a process to follow'. Surely that cannot be that difficult to comprehend. Follow the instructions to the tee and I bet my ass it will cure your BGA problem. It's worked for dozens if not hundreds of folks. Follow the directions!!!!!! -- **So long, and thanks for all the fish!** |
I'm surprised they haven't made a horror movie about the stuff that was in
my aquarium. "Happy'Cam'per" wrote in message ... "Scott" wrote in message ... I only recently got rid of the blue green algae in my aquarium, after a year of it growing inch's in size every day. I tried blacking the aquarium out five or six times. each time the blue green algae disappeared after three or four days, but a week or two later it always returned. I put that down to not doing them for long enough but I even tried a six day blackout, and a four day blackout followed by a three day blackout, two days later. and I wrapped my tank up in tin foil, towels, sleeping bags, and all sorts to keep the light out. I finally got rid of it a month ago by using Maracyn. it seems to be gone for good this time. from what I can tell from my experiences with blue green algae it doesn't matter what the water parameters it will still have enough nutrients to be able to grow. it seems to be more to do with bad luck than anything else, if you get it in your tank. Well the blackout worked for me!!!!!!!!!! You must have that same tenacious new species of Cyano that Eric has... :-) -- **So long, and thanks for all the fish!** |
"Happy'Cam'per" wrote in message
... Tom suggested 'a process to follow'. Surely that cannot be that difficult to comprehend. Follow the instructions to the tee and I bet my ass it will cure your BGA problem. It's worked for dozens if not hundreds of folks. Follow the directions!!!!!! -- **So long, and thanks for all the fish!** I'm not saying that if you follow his specific instructions step by step that it won't help at all, but there is never any guarantee. But this arguing was about blackout specifically, not all of the additional steps that Tom lined out. It was just his comment that implied that anybody who said blackout didn't work were lying, and then his suggestion that nobody ever said that it didn't work that got to me and I think is what also got to Eric. That sounded like classic denial and like he was calling Eric a liar for saying that others have said it didn't work for them. Tom has definately helped a lot of people here, but the tone at the beginning of that last post just struck the wrong chord. I didn't really mean to offend anybody, even though I usually end up doing that anyway. -- Margolis http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm http://www.unrealtower.org/faq |
Happy'Cam'per wrote:
Where do you think it came from in the first place? Once you dose those anti'B's you're going to kill alll the Cyano cells but the conditions in your tank will remain the same, they will return once the AB's wear off. By extension, the same thing will result no matter what course of action one takes. -- Eric Schreiber www.ericschreiber.com |
Happy'Cam'per wrote:
How old is that info on the Krib, and how qualified were those ppl making the statements? Beats me. How qualified is Tom? Again, beats me. Oh Come on Eric, I think its my turn this time to tell you to get a thicker skin. My skin is plenty thick - I'm not in the *least* bit offended or upset by anything Tom said. I'm simply not interested in pumping a lot of noise into the newsgroup over something I'm not emotionally invested in. Tom is offering you perfectly fine advice and you're throwing it back in his face, he offered to help you out and then you get defensive! On the contrary, I've already affirmed that if the antibiotics don't work out, I will be trying the method he suggested. -- Eric Schreiber www.ericschreiber.com |
Margolis wrote:
yup, I have seen numerous posters saying the same thing in various plant forums and also in this newsgroup as I have been lurking. Blackout had no affects at all. But some people just can't seem to believe that just because something seemed to work for them does not mean it is written in stone and works all the time. I suspect that part of the problem is the many kinds of cyanobacteria that exist. Happy Camper alluded to "The type of Cyano that infects OUR fish tanks", and I have no doubt that he's right for a particular common species. I don't think it's at all a stretch, though, to consider that there might be other species with different nutrient needs affecting fresh water aquaria. -- Eric Schreiber www.ericschreiber.com |
Happy'Cam'per wrote:
Well the blackout worked for me!!!!!!!!!! You must have that same tenacious new species of Cyano that Eric has... I haven't yet tried blackout myself. I've been following a regimen of aggressive cleaning and water change, and also adding Najas to the tank in an attempt to rob the BGA of nutrients. I didn't attempt a blackout because of the number of posts I read by people for whom it didn't work. If the anti-bacterial approach fails, I will certainly give Tom's method a try. -- Eric Schreiber www.ericschreiber.com |
If you follow it step by step....
Add the necessary nutrients in the correct proportion, etc.... you won't be disappointed... I had BGA once. I tried several different blackout methods, and it finally worked only after I did Tom's recommendation step by step. If you don't do the water changes, or don't add the KNO3 like he suggests, etc.... you will fail. This has been my experience at least. I don't know much about the subject, but I know this did work in my tank. -- Craig Brye University of Phoenix Online "Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message ... Happy'Cam'per wrote: Well the blackout worked for me!!!!!!!!!! You must have that same tenacious new species of Cyano that Eric has... I haven't yet tried blackout myself. I've been following a regimen of aggressive cleaning and water change, and also adding Najas to the tank in an attempt to rob the BGA of nutrients. I didn't attempt a blackout because of the number of posts I read by people for whom it didn't work. If the anti-bacterial approach fails, I will certainly give Tom's method a try. -- Eric Schreiber www.ericschreiber.com |
BGA are(the species we deal with), as are all algae/plants, totally
dependent on light. BGA are not plants, they are bacteria. Though photosynthesis is the preferred mode of nutrition, it is not the only method. (Palinska, Katarzyna A; Horgan, William J and Krumbein, Wolfgang, E (May 2002) Cyanobacteria. In: Nature Encyclopedia of Life Sciences. London: Nature Publishing Group.) The species that infest our tanks is specifically Oscillitoria splendens. If you can show me a reference that says this species of BGA is able to survive without light(or the genus), I'm all ears. I specifically qualified my statement above as well(the species we deal with). There are a few plants and even a few species of algae that are parasitic(some don't even have any chloroplast)on other organisms(therefore indirectly dependent on light), but none that grow in our tanks, and that is what we are discussing, not eveything on the planet. Antibiotics do work, my point is not that Myacin does or does not work, I just offers a better method that takes 3 days and is 100% free and addresses the long term problem that you have. Well, the ehtromycin is effectively free, since I already had it on hand. My supply expires in a few months, so it's not as though I'm likely to lose use of it by employing it against BGA. Nope, so go for it. When you get another species algae, you cannot use EM against, then what? You kill one and do not correct the problem, another will come in. While the killing part can be done both ways, the fixing it so it does not come back part is another matter that is never discussed in advice with EM. Not everyone has EM sitting around, not everyone can get EM. Everyone can use a blackout. KNO3 is needed to help the plants grow, EM methods never suggest this. Ok, thanks, but I'm REALLY not interested in a holy war. You've clearly got a lot of emotional investment in the subject, and I'm afraid I really don't care enough to get into a protracted discussion over it. The proof is in the pudding, you try it, then you'll know. I know EM works. I know Blackout works and I'm the only person that's suggested an effective method of prevention and culture of BGA. There's no arguement or issue, the experiment is repeatable with both methods if you try it. You have not tried this but you wanted to suggest otherwise based on acendotal support rather than practical controlled methodology. The Krib and the other folks did not do that. I know they did not becuase they would have found the same thing. I've done this 20 or more times again and again. It's not just for phycologist either, any aquarist can repeat the same things I've done and support that type of investigation. But if you have not done that, then it seems odd. But I wanted to know, so now I do so I can and do speak with confidence about the issue. You are new to weeds/plants/algae, I've very old hat(30+ years now) and work on weeds professionally and did my Master's on algae and BGA's in FW. I'm not asking for you to believe me really, only to try it and see for yourself that it works, or if not, why it didn't. I totally understand your views and that you just want to fix the problem and move on as well. I was new once also and had lots of opposing views. I got ****ed off and figure it out for myself. Now I've figured out many things that have really helped a lot of folks grow plants better because of this. If you want to suggest my experimenting on BGA is flawed, incorrect, I overlooked something or questionable etc without supporting your contention, you will get flack, it's nothing personal at you, it's about the issue of the blackout and BGA. I truly welcome critical review and questions. If your only goal is to kill algae, you'll keep having more algae in the future. Just a different species. The focus should be on the plants, EM methods never address that, just a method to kill BGA. Focus on the plant's needs and you will have far less algae/BGa issues in the future. Specifically KNO3 dosing for EM. Don't worry, I ain't this crotchety in person:) Regards, Tom Barr |
wrote:
Nope, so go for it. When you get another species algae, you cannot use EM against, then what? You kill one and do not correct the problem, another will come in. You're making an unfounded assumption about my plans. Perhaps not an unreasonable one, but I assure you I don't plan to just continuously treat with EM. You have not tried this but you wanted to suggest otherwise based on acendotal support rather than practical controlled methodology. Forgive me, but from where I'm sitting (e.g. some random guy reading Usenet comments from some other random guy) all suggestions are anecdotal. Even yours, since I don't know you from Adam. While I suppose Usenet might be considered 'peer reviewed', I think you'll agree that it lacks scientific rigor. What I would suggest to you is that you put together a detailed document describing your method step by step, its benefits (and drawbacks, if any), and the methodology you used to arrive at it. Then put it on a web site so that people will have a better opportunity to review and understand it. If you don't have a site of your own, I'd be happy to put it up on mine, though it would be far better off on one of the 'major players' sites, like Netmax's or Chucks. I'm not asking for you to believe me really, only to try it and see for yourself that it works, or if not, why it didn't. As I mentioned before, I intend to try your approach should the anti-bacterial method fail. If you want to suggest my experimenting on BGA is flawed, incorrect, I overlooked something or questionable etc without supporting your contention, you will get flack I don't have a lab at my disposal, so like many hobbyists I rely on internet research for things to try. A Google search turned up lots of people stating that blackout doesn't work, that's all. No mention of your method (which goes well beyond simple blackout) was made or implied. The focus should be on the plants, EM methods never address that, just a method to kill BGA. Focus on the plant's needs and you will have far less algae/BGa issues in the future. Specifically KNO3 dosing for EM. Question - you've mention 'the plants' several times. You are referring to higher plants, not algae, correct? As in 'planted tank'? If so, I think I mentioned that the tank where I have this problem is not planted (except that I tossed in some Najas in an attempt to rob the BGA of nutrients). Any specific suggestions for long-term prevention of BGA in a non-planted tank? Don't worry, I ain't this crotchety in person:) Most of us aren't. Oddly, I'm told that I am. Years of practice. -- Eric Schreiber www.ericschreiber.com |
"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message ...
wrote: Nope, so go for it. When you get another species algae, you cannot use EM against, then what? You kill one and do not correct the problem, another will come in. You're making an unfounded assumption about my plans. Perhaps not an unreasonable one, but I assure you I don't plan to just continuously treat with EM. I know:) I try to help folks grow plants, not kill algae. Then they don't have to kill algae. It's deceptively simple. You have not tried this but you wanted to suggest otherwise based on acendotal support rather than practical controlled methodology. Forgive me, but from where I'm sitting (e.g. some random guy reading Usenet comments from some other random guy) all suggestions are anecdotal. Even yours, since I don't know you from Adam. While I suppose Usenet might be considered 'peer reviewed', I think you'll agree that it lacks scientific rigor. Yep, big Bertha's spam and the trolls are far from rigor:) What I would suggest to you is that you put together a detailed document describing your method step by step, its benefits (and drawbacks, if any), and the methodology you used to arrive at it. Then put it on a web site so that people will have a better opportunity to review and understand it. If you don't have a site of your own, I'd be happy to put it up on mine, though it would be far better off on one of the 'major players' sites, like Netmax's or Chucks. It's up in many places, perhaps not this particular issue, but it's been well argued on the APD, AQ, APC which is more rigorous than many any other list. I've spoken on plants with Amano so I'm no Adam. I know my weeds and algae. I tend to repeat rather than leave links. I'm not asking for you to believe me really, only to try it and see for yourself that it works, or if not, why it didn't. As I mentioned before, I intend to try your approach should the anti-bacterial method fail. I doubt it will, my point is to add KNO3 after treatment or even during treatment and thereafter to improve plant growth. Algae/BGA's are used as bioindicators in my field and are environmental target organisms for pollution and other water quality indices. They also can tell me what the nutrient patterns are in someone's tank without seeing the tank. Freaks people out:) If you want to suggest my experimenting on BGA is flawed, incorrect, I overlooked something or questionable etc without supporting your contention, you will get flack I don't have a lab at my disposal, so like many hobbyists I rely on internet research for things to try. A Google search turned up lots of people stating that blackout doesn't work, that's all. No mention of your method (which goes well beyond simple blackout) was made or implied. I tend not to let an issue(not personality) go till I have it figured out. I understand a person just searching the web for info. I have a ton of experience, education and it's my profession(Weeds and algae for the State of CA) and have met hundreds, perhaps 1000's of folks in your shoes. I hate seeing folks suffer and there are many myths about plants. Question - you've mention 'the plants' several times. You are referring to higher plants, not algae, correct? Yes, embryophytes if you want a precise term. As in 'planted tank'? If so, I think I mentioned that the tank where I have this problem is not planted (except that I tossed in some Najas in an attempt to rob the BGA of nutrients). Any specific suggestions for long-term prevention of BGA in a non-planted tank? Easy, chelated copper will kill all algae and many parasites/Oomycota(ich etc). Less light, more cleaning. I did 50% weekly water changes for my FW fish only tanks religiously. Never got it. You can increase aeration/current also. I found I could culture Pithora, a beautiful bright green hair algae that will grow on wood and rocks under intense light and aeration/current. This makes good fish food and also prevents other species from establishing. Try water sprite also, it's a much better "competitor" since it floats, has access to CO2/light, blocks the light better(plant's main competitive advantage over algae) and grows like mad. That plus some current/water changes etc works well. Water sprite is generally easier to sell and get a fair price for vs Najas. Don't worry, I ain't this crotchety in person:) Most of us aren't. Oddly, I'm told that I am. Years of practice. "Well rippened" Regards, Tom Barr |
wrote:
I try to help folks grow plants, not kill algae. Then they don't have to kill algae. Works like a charm in my planted tank. I do have a small amount of algae, but nothing that the residents can't keep up with. I've had remarkably good luck with that tank, considering I started it as a complete noob. Easy, chelated copper will kill all algae and many parasites/Oomycota(ich etc). Despite the evidence to the contrary (eg, me dumping antibiotics into my tank), I try to avoid chemical treatments as much as possible. I do have some Mardel CopperSafe here, but nowhere on the dang label does it indication precisely what it is. I'll have to research. You can increase aeration/current also. That sort of thing tends to **** off my bettas :) Try water sprite also, it's a much better "competitor" since it floats, has access to CO2/light, blocks the light better(plant's main competitive advantage over algae) and grows like mad. I came across a tiny amount of duckweed (scooped from a nearby river, washed thoroughly). I put four plantlets in the tank a week ago, and now I've easily got a dozen. Should work well as a substitute. -- Eric Schreiber www.ericschreiber.com |
"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message ...
wrote: I try to help folks grow plants, not kill algae. Then they don't have to kill algae. Works like a charm in my planted tank. I do have a small amount of algae, but nothing that the residents can't keep up with. I've had remarkably good luck with that tank, considering I started it as a complete noob. Easy, chelated copper will kill all algae and many parasites/Oomycota(ich etc). Despite the evidence to the contrary (eg, me dumping antibiotics into my tank), I try to avoid chemical treatments as much as possible. I do have some Mardel CopperSafe here, but nowhere on the dang label does it indication precisely what it is. I'll have to research. You can increase aeration/current also. That sort of thing tends to **** off my bettas :) Try water sprite also, it's a much better "competitor" since it floats, has access to CO2/light, blocks the light better(plant's main competitive advantage over algae) and grows like mad. I came across a tiny amount of duckweed (scooped from a nearby river, washed thoroughly). I put four plantlets in the tank a week ago, and now I've easily got a dozen. Should work well as a substitute. I would not recommend this. Duckweed is as bad as algae. It will quickly take over your entire tank and is a pain to get rid of. Nick |
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