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BBA: the next step
OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely
time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me as it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants. I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into from the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have no fish in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of BBA and still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2 for that period. Plan C is to strip the tank. Nikki |
In article ,
Nikki Casali wrote: OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me as it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants. I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into from the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have no fish in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of BBA and still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2 for that period. Plan C is to strip the tank. Nikki Two cc/gallon of Hydrogen peroxide will kill it. Get ready for big water changes as it sloughs off, the H202 will also kill the good bacteria and you'll need to cycle your tank again. Get your tank as clean as possible before doing this as it will react with any organics (ie, dirt, mulm etc). You may need to do this 2-3 times every other day. But I have done this to eradicate (not control) red algae (which is what BBA and black staghorn alage are). Green alage are less affected if at all. Fish, shrimp and msot plants are unaffected. Ones that may be hurt are hornwort and swords. Crypts seem immune to the stuff. Aquarium pharmecuticals Algae FIx also works but is toxic to all invertebrates. -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
On 2005-01-15, Nikki Casali wrote:
still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2 for that period. Yea - I missed what plan A was, but the blackout method works like a charm. Kills it dead. Not a sign of a comeback for a month here. I did a blackout with towels for three or five days (forget which). No feeding, no CO2. -- Ross Vandegrift "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 |
"Ross Vandegrift" wrote in message ... On 2005-01-15, Nikki Casali wrote: still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2 for that period. Yea - I missed what plan A was, but the blackout method works like a charm. Kills it dead. Not a sign of a comeback for a month here. I did a blackout with towels for three or five days (forget which). No feeding, no CO2. -- Ross Vandegrift "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 the blackout killed the BBA. I know it will kill BGA but many have had no success with blacking out the tank to control BBA. Let us know how you make out. Rick |
Ross Vandegrift wrote: On 2005-01-15, Nikki Casali wrote: still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2 for that period. Yea - I missed what plan A was, but the blackout method works like a charm. Kills it dead. Not a sign of a comeback for a month here. I did a blackout with towels for three or five days (forget which). No feeding, no CO2. Plan A was to improve the nutrient balance to inspire lush plant growth. The Water Sprite got the hint. Now little room for fish to swim. All that did was put BBA on cryogenic hold until the exploitation of the next micro-imbalance e.g. a couple of extra fish flakes. I wonder if there is a frequency of light that algae cannot utilise in any shape or form that fish can see with? That would allow the fish to continue their activities in the blackout period. Nikki |
On 2005-01-15, Nikki Casali wrote:
I wonder if there is a frequency of light that algae cannot utilise in any shape or form that fish can see with? That would allow the fish to continue their activities in the blackout period. My fish didn't really stop their activities while blacked out - they whenever I'd check under the towels, they were as active as ever. After the lights came back on, they were mostly excited to eat as usual ::-) -- Ross Vandegrift "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 |
On 2005-01-15, Nikki Casali wrote:
Plan A was to improve the nutrient balance to inspire lush plant growth. The Water Sprite got the hint. Now little room for fish to swim. All that did was put BBA on cryogenic hold until the exploitation of the next micro-imbalance e.g. a couple of extra fish flakes. I don't know your details, but in my limited experience, I had to dose potassium to help the plants. If there's fauna, they should produce enough phosphates and nitrates for the plants. I use Seachem Flourish, Excel, and potassium. I pulled out algae infested leaves as it was convenient, and just had to be patient. I've never tried blacking out the tank. -- "I have to decide between two equally frightening options. If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman |
Nikki Casali wrote:
OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me as it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants. I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into from the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have no fish in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of BBA and still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2 for that period. Plan C is to strip the tank. Nikki I missed plan A so apologies if someone already suggested this. Is there some reason you cannot find or keep Crossocheilus siamensis (Siamese algae eaters or SAE)? They really, truly do eat BBA and will keep it under control. http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html describes the fish. The article is 10 years old, and now there is a demand for the true SAE so they are not difficult to find in LFS. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
Elaine T wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me as it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants. I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into from the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have no fish in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of BBA and still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2 for that period. Plan C is to strip the tank. Nikki I missed plan A so apologies if someone already suggested this. Is there some reason you cannot find or keep Crossocheilus siamensis (Siamese algae eaters or SAE)? They really, truly do eat BBA and will keep it under control. http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html describes the fish. The article is 10 years old, and now there is a demand for the true SAE so they are not difficult to find in LFS. Oooh, it's complicated! I have 1 Ruby Shark (4 years), 1 Redtail Shark (4 years) and 1 Harlequin Shark (4 months). They are all mortal enemies. No one told me about the sheer pathological aggression of the Harlequin when I got him. They just said he was the best algae eater around. My 2 older sharks just about tolerated each other. One became nocturnal. When I introduced the Harlequin everything was fine until 2 weeks later when all hell broke loose. One morning I found the Redtail shivering in one corner, absolutely terrified! Mr Harlequin had gained enough confidence within 2 weeks to begin savagely attacking it. I had finally found a fish more aggressive than a Redtail! The nocturnal Ruby Shark wasn't stupid and decided to hibernate in one tight corner for most of 24 hours. One day I even came across the Harlequin with its sucker mouth clasped against one of my Angelfish. What?! I removed the Harlequin and Redtail Sharks to the quarantine tank, with a divider, permanently. I am now left with the less aggressive Ruby Shark in the main tank. Would the Ruby Shark tolerate a Crossocheilus siamensis? I'm running out of quarantine tanks though! Nikki |
Nikki Casali wrote:
Elaine T wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me as it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants. I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into from the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have no fish in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of BBA and still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2 for that period. Plan C is to strip the tank. Nikki I missed plan A so apologies if someone already suggested this. Is there some reason you cannot find or keep Crossocheilus siamensis (Siamese algae eaters or SAE)? They really, truly do eat BBA and will keep it under control. http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html describes the fish. The article is 10 years old, and now there is a demand for the true SAE so they are not difficult to find in LFS. Oooh, it's complicated! I have 1 Ruby Shark (4 years), 1 Redtail Shark (4 years) and 1 Harlequin Shark (4 months). They are all mortal enemies. No one told me about the sheer pathological aggression of the Harlequin when I got him. They just said he was the best algae eater around. My 2 older sharks just about tolerated each other. One became nocturnal. When I introduced the Harlequin everything was fine until 2 weeks later when all hell broke loose. One morning I found the Redtail shivering in one corner, absolutely terrified! Mr Harlequin had gained enough confidence within 2 weeks to begin savagely attacking it. I had finally found a fish more aggressive than a Redtail! The nocturnal Ruby Shark wasn't stupid and decided to hibernate in one tight corner for most of 24 hours. One day I even came across the Harlequin with its sucker mouth clasped against one of my Angelfish. What?! I removed the Harlequin and Redtail Sharks to the quarantine tank, with a divider, permanently. I am now left with the less aggressive Ruby Shark in the main tank. Would the Ruby Shark tolerate a Crossocheilus siamensis? I'm running out of quarantine tanks though! Nikki If your "harlequin shark" has a suckermouth, it is not a relative of C. siamensis, L. bicolor (redtail shark) or E. frenatus (ruby shark). None of these fish have suckermouths. It is most likely a dreaded Chinese algae eater (CAE) or Gyrinocheilus aymonieri. http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/gyr_aym.html CAE get very aggressive as they grow, especially towards similarly shaped fish. They have been rumored to feed on slimecoats of other fish as they age, thus the angelfish sucking behavior. If you look at some more pictures of G. aymonieri and that's indeed what your "harlequin shark" is, I would return it to LFS. It will never be suitable for a community tank. If they complain, just leave it anyway - they'll figure out something to do with it. After all, they gave you the bad advice in the first place. Now, as for ruby shark and SAE, I've personally kept 3 SAE and one flying fox (E. kalopterus) together and things were fine. The flying fox chased the SAE around some, but always got distracted because there were 3 of them. I think of Flying foxes and ruby sharks as similarly aggressive with redtails as the psycho killer member of the family. So...What I would personally try is 3 or 4 SAE - the largest you can buy - if you have the tank room. My best guess is that the ruby shark will most likely chase the SAE around, but the aggression will be spread amongst the SAE and they will be OK. But this is only a guess based on my flying fox experience! Hopefully someone else will post who has actually tried ruby sharks and SAE together. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
Elaine T wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: Elaine T wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me as it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants. I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into from the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have no fish in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of BBA and still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2 for that period. Plan C is to strip the tank. Nikki I missed plan A so apologies if someone already suggested this. Is there some reason you cannot find or keep Crossocheilus siamensis (Siamese algae eaters or SAE)? They really, truly do eat BBA and will keep it under control. http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html describes the fish. The article is 10 years old, and now there is a demand for the true SAE so they are not difficult to find in LFS. Oooh, it's complicated! I have 1 Ruby Shark (4 years), 1 Redtail Shark (4 years) and 1 Harlequin Shark (4 months). They are all mortal enemies. No one told me about the sheer pathological aggression of the Harlequin when I got him. They just said he was the best algae eater around. My 2 older sharks just about tolerated each other. One became nocturnal. When I introduced the Harlequin everything was fine until 2 weeks later when all hell broke loose. One morning I found the Redtail shivering in one corner, absolutely terrified! Mr Harlequin had gained enough confidence within 2 weeks to begin savage lyattackingit.Ihadfinally found a fish more aggressive than a Redtail! The nocturnal Ruby Shark wasn't stupid and decided to hibernate in one tight corner for most of 24 hours. One day I even came across the Harlequin with its sucker mouth clasped against one of my Angelfish. What?! I removed the Harlequin and Redtail Sharks to the quarantine tank, with a divider, permanently. I am now left with the less aggressive Ruby Shark in the main tank. Would the Ruby Shark tolerate a Crossocheilus siamensis? I'm running out of quarantine tanks though! Nikki If your "harlequin shark" has a suckermouth, it is not a relative of C. siamensis, L. bicolor (redtail shark) or E. frenatus (ruby shark). None of these fish have suckermouths. It is most likely a dreaded Chinese algae eater (CAE) or Gyrinocheilus aymonieri. Yes, it looks very much like a variant of Labeo variegatus, which is the one I have: http://www.thatfishshop.com/findex/f...variegatus.htm http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/gyr_aym.html CAE get very aggressive as they grow, especially towards similarly shaped fish. They have been rumored to feed on slimecoats of other fish as they age, thus the angelfish sucking behavior. If you look at some more pictures of G. aymonieri and that's indeed what your "harlequin shark" is, I would return it to LFS. It will never be suitable for a community tank. If they complain, just leave it anyway - they'll figure out something to do with it. After all, they gave you the bad advice in the first place. Believe it or not, they had an offer the day I bought it. Buy 2 for £28! Fortunately, I just bought the one. Now, as for ruby shark and SAE, I've personally kept 3 SAE and one flying fox (E. kalopterus) together and things were fine. The flying fox chased the SAE around some, but always got distracted because there were 3 of them. I think of Flying foxes and ruby sharks as similarly aggressive with redtails as the psycho killer member of the family. My experience totally agrees. So...What I would personally try is 3 or 4 SAE - the largest you can buy - if you have the tank room. My best guess is that the ruby shark will most likely chase the SAE around, but the aggression will be spread amongst the SAE and they will be OK. But this is only a guess based on my flying fox experience! Hopefully someone else will post who has actually tried ruby sharks and SAE together. I definitely need some critter to clean the BBA from the leaves as most leaves are affected, almost imperceptibly though. The PO4 is under control. They say to prune all leaves that are infected at this stage. If I did that, the only leaf in the tank left would be the Water Sprite. Do you know the mechanism SAE use to prise away BBA? I still can't believe that anything could have the equipment to get rid of this stuff! Nikki |
Nikki Casali wrote:
Elaine T wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: Elaine T wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me as it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants. I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into from the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have no fish in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of BBA and still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2 for that period. Plan C is to strip the tank. Nikki I missed plan A so apologies if someone already suggested this. Is there some reason you cannot find or keep Crossocheilus siamensis (Siamese algae eaters or SAE)? They really, truly do eat BBA and will keep it under control. http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html describes the fish. The article is 10 years old, and now there is a demand for the true SAE so they are not difficult to find in LFS. Oooh, it's complicated! I have 1 Ruby Shark (4 years), 1 Redtail Shark (4 years) and 1 Harlequin Shark (4 months). They are all mortal enemies. No one told me about the sheer pathological aggression of the Harlequin when I got him. They just said he was the best algae eater around. My 2 older sharks just about tolerated each other. One became nocturnal. When I introduced the Harlequin everything was fine until 2 weeks later when all hell broke loose. One morning I found the Redtail shivering in one corner, absolutely terrified! Mr Harlequin had gained enough confidence within 2 weeks to begin savage lyattackingit.Ihadfinally found a fish more aggressive than a Redtail! The nocturnal Ruby Shark wasn't stupid and decided to hibernate in one tight corner for most of 24 hours. One day I even came across the Harlequin with its sucker mouth clasped against one of my Angelfish. What?! I removed the Harlequin and Redtail Sharks to the quarantine tank, with a divider, permanently. I am now left with the less aggressive Ruby Shark in the main tank. Would the Ruby Shark tolerate a Crossocheilus siamensis? I'm running out of quarantine tanks though! Nikki If your "harlequin shark" has a suckermouth, it is not a relative of C. siamensis, L. bicolor (redtail shark) or E. frenatus (ruby shark). None of these fish have suckermouths. It is most likely a dreaded Chinese algae eater (CAE) or Gyrinocheilus aymonieri. Yes, it looks very much like a variant of Labeo variegatus, which is the one I have: http://www.thatfishshop.com/findex/f...variegatus.htm http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/gyr_aym.html CAE get very aggressive as they grow, especially towards similarly shaped fish. They have been rumored to feed on slimecoats of other fish as they age, thus the angelfish sucking behavior. If you look at some more pictures of G. aymonieri and that's indeed what your "harlequin shark" is, I would return it to LFS. It will never be suitable for a community tank. If they complain, just leave it anyway - they'll figure out something to do with it. After all, they gave you the bad advice in the first place. Believe it or not, they had an offer the day I bought it. Buy 2 for £28! Fortunately, I just bought the one. Wow. I've never even seen L. variegatus for sale over here. I'll know not to buy one! Maybe your LFS will take it back if it's rare in the UK. Now, as for ruby shark and SAE, I've personally kept 3 SAE and one flying fox (E. kalopterus) together and things were fine. The flying fox chased the SAE around some, but always got distracted because there were 3 of them. I think of Flying foxes and ruby sharks as similarly aggressive with redtails as the psycho killer member of the family. My experience totally agrees. So...What I would personally try is 3 or 4 SAE - the largest you can buy - if you have the tank room. My best guess is that the ruby shark will most likely chase the SAE around, but the aggression will be spread amongst the SAE and they will be OK. But this is only a guess based on my flying fox experience! Hopefully someone else will post who has actually tried ruby sharks and SAE together. I definitely need some critter to clean the BBA from the leaves as most leaves are affected, almost imperceptibly though. The PO4 is under control. They say to prune all leaves that are infected at this stage. If I did that, the only leaf in the tank left would be the Water Sprite. Do you know the mechanism SAE use to prise away BBA? I still can't believe that anything could have the equipment to get rid of this stuff! Nikki The fish seem to eat the soft, fuzzy strands. They don't actually scrape the algae off of things so you'll still see some dark spotting. I had to scrub my the remainder of the algae off of my heater and filter intakes when I had an infested tank. However, new plant growth comes in virtually algae free since they eat the tender new algae as soon as it starts to get a foothold. Your plants will gradually shed the infested leaves and start to look green again. Oh - and if you try SAE, feed the tank as lightly as you can. SAE eat all sorts of fish foods, and won't eat algae as diligently if they've stuffed themselves on flakes. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
Elaine T wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: Yes, it looks very much like a variant of Labeo variegatus, which is the one I have: http://www.thatfishshop.com/findex/f...variegatus.htm http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/gyr_aym.html CAE get very aggressive as they grow, especially towards similarly shaped fish. They have been rumored to feed on slimecoats of other fish as they age, thus the angelfish sucking behavior. If you look at some more pictures of G. aymonieri and that's indeed what your "harlequin shark" is, I would return it to LFS. It will never be suitable for a community tank. If they complain, just leave it anyway - they'll figure out something to do with it. After all, they gave you the bad advice in the first place. Believe it or not, they had an offer the day I bought it. Buy 2 for £28! Fortunately, I just bought the one. Wow. I've never even seen L. variegatus for sale over here. I'll know not to buy one! Maybe your LFS will take it back if it's rare in the UK. I discovered, after speaking to an assistant at a LFS, that there is a ban on them being sold now. He presumed it was to do with the rarity in their natural habitat. Do you know the mechanism SAE use to prise away BBA? I still can't believe that anything could have the equipment to get rid of this stuff! The fish seem to eat the soft, fuzzy strands. They don't actually scrape the algae off of things so you'll still see some dark spotting. I had to scrub my the remainder of the algae off of my heater and filter intakes when I had an infested tank. However, new plant growth comes in virtually algae free since they eat the tender new algae as soon as it starts to get a foothold. Your plants will gradually shed the infested leaves and start to look green again. Oh - and if you try SAE, feed the tank as lightly as you can. SAE eat all sorts of fish foods, and won't eat algae as diligently if they've stuffed themselves on flakes. I'm taking time off work to get 3 SAE tomorrow. 3 enough in a 330 litre tank? The algae eaters I already have are 7 Ancistrus and 2 Otocinclus. Nikki |
On 2005-01-16, Nikki Casali wrote:
Do you know the mechanism SAE use to prise away BBA? I still can't believe that anything could have the equipment to get rid of this stuff! In my experience with SAEs, they'll eat the stuff if there's nothing else for them to eat. Once they get a taste of any other food, they don't work on the algae as hard. SAEs will get big. I'd recommend one per thirty gallons. If I had to do it over again, I'd probably keep SAEs in as the only bottom feeders in a plant only tank. Keep in mind, if you have any Myriophyllum (frill or parrots feather), they will tear those up. -- "I have to decide between two equally frightening options. If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman |
On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote:
I'm taking time off work to get 3 SAE tomorrow. 3 enough in a 330 litre tank? The algae eaters I already have are 7 Ancistrus and 2 Otocinclus. Just make sure you get a true siamensis. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 -- "I have to decide between two equally frightening options. If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman |
Nikki Casali wrote:
Elaine T wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: Yes, it looks very much like a variant of Labeo variegatus, which is the one I have: http://www.thatfishshop.com/findex/f...variegatus.htm http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/gyr_aym.html CAE get very aggressive as they grow, especially towards similarly shaped fish. They have been rumored to feed on slimecoats of other fish as they age, thus the angelfish sucking behavior. If you look at some more pictures of G. aymonieri and that's indeed what your "harlequin shark" is, I would return it to LFS. It will never be suitable for a community tank. If they complain, just leave it anyway - they'll figure out something to do with it. After all, they gave you the bad advice in the first place. Believe it or not, they had an offer the day I bought it. Buy 2 for £28! Fortunately, I just bought the one. Wow. I've never even seen L. variegatus for sale over here. I'll know not to buy one! Maybe your LFS will take it back if it's rare in the UK. I discovered, after speaking to an assistant at a LFS, that there is a ban on them being sold now. He presumed it was to do with the rarity in their natural habitat. Do you know the mechanism SAE use to prise away BBA? I still can't believe that anything could have the equipment to get rid of this stuff! The fish seem to eat the soft, fuzzy strands. They don't actually scrape the algae off of things so you'll still see some dark spotting. I had to scrub my the remainder of the algae off of my heater and filter intakes when I had an infested tank. However, new plant growth comes in virtually algae free since they eat the tender new algae as soon as it starts to get a foothold. Your plants will gradually shed the infested leaves and start to look green again. Oh - and if you try SAE, feed the tank as lightly as you can. SAE eat all sorts of fish foods, and won't eat algae as diligently if they've stuffed themselves on flakes. I'm taking time off work to get 3 SAE tomorrow. 3 enough in a 330 litre tank? The algae eaters I already have are 7 Ancistrus and 2 Otocinclus. Nikki Personally, I'd get three if they're decent sized or four if they're tiny. You want to get your ruby shark good and confused about the pecking order. js has a very good point about being very careful that you buy C. siamensis and not any of the closely related species. I always look for the black stripe to go all the way through the tailfin, all other fins clear, and the absence of a golden stripe just above the black. There should be only the tan/brown color of the back of the fish all the way down the side until the start of the black stripe. Good luck! -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
js1 wrote: On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote: I'm taking time off work to get 3 SAE tomorrow. 3 enough in a 330 litre tank? The algae eaters I already have are 7 Ancistrus and 2 Otocinclus. Just make sure you get a true siamensis. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 I got three at my LFS. They're still in the plastic bag. I'm not 100% sure they are true siamensis. They have a light band above the dark band. They only have one pair of barbels though. There is a lot of conflicting information on the Internet. http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00001.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00002.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00003.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00004.JPG Can anyone give me a definite true or false? I'm taking them back if they're false! Nikki |
Nikki Casali wrote: js1 wrote: On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote: I'm taking time off work to get 3 SAE tomorrow. 3 enough in a 330 litre tank? The algae eaters I already have are 7 Ancistrus and 2 Otocinclus. Just make sure you get a true siamensis. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 I got three at my LFS. They're still in the plastic bag. I'm not 100% sure they are true siamensis. They have a light band above the dark band. They only have one pair of barbels though. There is a lot of conflicting information on the Internet. http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00001.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00002.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00003.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00004.JPG Can anyone give me a definite true or false? I'm taking them back if they're false! Too late! Have to put them into the tank now. I'll never catch them if I find that they are false. Nikki |
Nikki Casali wrote:
js1 wrote: On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote: I'm taking time off work to get 3 SAE tomorrow. 3 enough in a 330 litre tank? The algae eaters I already have are 7 Ancistrus and 2 Otocinclus. Just make sure you get a true siamensis. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 I got three at my LFS. They're still in the plastic bag. I'm not 100% sure they are true siamensis. They have a light band above the dark band. They only have one pair of barbels though. There is a lot of conflicting information on the Internet. http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00001.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00002.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00003.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00004.JPG Can anyone give me a definite true or false? I'm taking them back if they're false! Nikki That's the fish. The stripe runs through the caudal fin, the fins are almost clear, and there no clearly defined gold stripe above the dark stripe. I think the lighter color above the dark stripe is a trick of your flash because it's missing in pics 1 and on the back fish in 2. My C. siamensis looks that way if the light hits him just right. As for barbels, they really keep them tucked in. Any other SAE keepers able to doublecheck my ID? The sure look like C. siamensis to me. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
I got three at my LFS. They're still in the plastic bag. I'm not 100%
sure they are true siamensis. They have a light band above the dark band. They only have one pair of barbels though. There is a lot of conflicting information on the Internet. http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00001.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00002.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00003.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00004.JPG Can anyone give me a definite true or false? I'm taking them back if they're false! I go by the tail. solid band of black is Flying Fox. Clear tail is Thai Algae Eater (or vice versa). Half a black band is SAE. They look right to me. -- Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org |
On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote:
Too late! Have to put them into the tank now. I'll never catch them if I find that they are false. Yeah, they're fast little SOBs. -- "I have to decide between two equally frightening options. If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman |
js1 wrote: On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote: Too late! Have to put them into the tank now. I'll never catch them if I find that they are false. Yeah, they're fast little SOBs. They're shy too! I thought that they had been absorbed out of existence into the aquarium ether, until I saw one or two popping their head from underneath the plant growth. Look, over there, a leaf smothered in algae. Your favorite food!.......what?? Because I said so! Now get to work you deadbeats! Nikki |
They look just fine to me too (I have 4 small SAE and one larger Flying
Fox). Cheers, Tony "Nikki Casali" wrote in message ... js1 wrote: On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote: I'm taking time off work to get 3 SAE tomorrow. 3 enough in a 330 litre tank? The algae eaters I already have are 7 Ancistrus and 2 Otocinclus. Just make sure you get a true siamensis. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 I got three at my LFS. They're still in the plastic bag. I'm not 100% sure they are true siamensis. They have a light band above the dark band. They only have one pair of barbels though. There is a lot of conflicting information on the Internet. http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00001.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00002.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00003.JPG http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/DSC00004.JPG Can anyone give me a definite true or false? I'm taking them back if they're false! Nikki |
Nikki Casali wrote:
js1 wrote: On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote: Too late! Have to put them into the tank now. I'll never catch them if I find that they are false. Yeah, they're fast little SOBs. They're shy too! I thought that they had been absorbed out of existence into the aquarium ether, until I saw one or two popping their head from underneath the plant growth. Look, over there, a leaf smothered in algae. Your favorite food!.......what?? Because I said so! Now get to work you deadbeats! Nikki They may be shy because of that ruby shark. Is there much chasing going on? -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
Elaine T wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: js1 wrote: On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote: Too late! Have to put them into the tank now. I'll never catch them if I find that they are false. Yeah, they're fast little SOBs. They're shy too! I thought that they had been absorbed out of existence into the aquarium ether, until I saw one or two popping their head from underneath the plant growth. Look, over there, a leaf smothered in algae. Your favorite food!.......what?? Because I said so! Now get to work you deadbeats! Nikki They may be shy because of that ruby shark. Is there much chasing going on? The Ruby Shark appears oblivious to the SAE. Of course, there may be some subtle communication I'm missing. The SAE are keeping to themselves at the moment behind some driftwood. Nikki |
Elaine T wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: js1 wrote: On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote: Too late! Have to put them into the tank now. I'll never catch them if I find that they are false. Yeah, they're fast little SOBs. They're shy too! I thought that they had been absorbed out of existence into the aquarium ether, until I saw one or two popping their head from underneath the plant growth. Look, over there, a leaf smothered in algae. Your favorite food!.......what?? Because I said so! Now get to work you deadbeats! Nikki They may be shy because of that ruby shark. Is there much chasing going on? The SAE are pottering around doing much about nothing at the moment. I don't think they understand algae yet. They're buddies though! Here is the pottering threesome: http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/SAE1.jpg http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/SAE2.jpg Nikki |
Nikki Casali wrote:
Elaine T wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: js1 wrote: On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote: Too late! Have to put them into the tank now. I'll never catch them if I find that they are false. Yeah, they're fast little SOBs. They're shy too! I thought that they had been absorbed out of existence into the aquarium ether, until I saw one or two popping their head from underneath the plant growth. Look, over there, a leaf smothered in algae. Your favorite food!.......what?? Because I said so! Now get to work you deadbeats! Nikki They may be shy because of that ruby shark. Is there much chasing going on? The SAE are pottering around doing much about nothing at the moment. I don't think they understand algae yet. They're buddies though! Here is the pottering threesome: http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/SAE1.jpg http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/SAE2.jpg Nikki Nice pics! I'm so glad the ruby shark hasn't terrorized them. They'll figure out the algae thing when they settle in and start to get hungry. They're slender fish, so they won't clean a tank overnight like a pleco. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
Elaine T wrote: Nice pics! I'm so glad the ruby shark hasn't terrorized them. They'll figure out the algae thing when they settle in and start to get hungry. They're slender fish, so they won't clean a tank overnight like a pleco. Well, they worked. They have cleared 95% of the BBA. The 5% left is very short stubbly growth on the leaf surfaces of my Saururus cernuus. They target the BBA very specifically. It's around the leaf edges and stems that the SAE spend most of their time. They've certainly evolved into a niche exclusive to themselves. The ruby shark does give chase to the larger SAE, but gets bored within seconds. It's very passive, or extremely sophisticated and has learnt what it is like to be bullied.. The SAE seem to spend most of their time as a threesome, together grazing algae. They're certainly more gregarious than my mollies. At the start, the two smallest SAE spent a whole day chasing the other one's tail, à la flying foxes. Their dark bands became greyed out or broken up as if stressed out. I'm not sure what they were trying to prove, but that's behind them now. Hey, they also like to graze on the green fuzz algae that grows on the glass surfaces. No other fish touch this. If I look very closely I can see them clearing a path through the fuzz. They're very funny to watch with their vibrating mouths! I think they go at something like 10 Hz? LOL! Nikki |
Nikki Casali wrote:
Elaine T wrote: Nice pics! I'm so glad the ruby shark hasn't terrorized them. They'll figure out the algae thing when they settle in and start to get hungry. They're slender fish, so they won't clean a tank overnight like a pleco. Well, they worked. They have cleared 95% of the BBA. The 5% left is very short stubbly growth on the leaf surfaces of my Saururus cernuus. They target the BBA very specifically. It's around the leaf edges and stems that the SAE spend most of their time. They've certainly evolved into a niche exclusive to themselves. The ruby shark does give chase to the larger SAE, but gets bored within seconds. It's very passive, or extremely sophisticated and has learnt what it is like to be bullied.. The SAE seem to spend most of their time as a threesome, together grazing algae. They're certainly more gregarious than my mollies. At the start, the two smallest SAE spent a whole day chasing the other one's tail, à la flying foxes. Their dark bands became greyed out or broken up as if stressed out. I'm not sure what they were trying to prove, but that's behind them now. Hey, they also like to graze on the green fuzz algae that grows on the glass surfaces. No other fish touch this. If I look very closely I can see them clearing a path through the fuzz. They're very funny to watch with their vibrating mouths! I think they go at something like 10 Hz? LOL! Cool! That's great news. I'm so glad they settled into the tank. I've liked SAE since I found my first real ones many years ago - they're gentle enough to be tankmates for just about anything, yet lively and always cruising and grazing. I'm not at all surprised that they're after the green fuzz. They seem to like BBA first, and other soft green algaes second. Heh, plus any other sort of fish food that lands in the tank. -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
"Elaine T" wrote in message .. . Cool! That's great news. I'm so glad they settled into the tank. I've liked SAE since I found my first real ones many years ago - they're gentle enough to be tankmates for just about anything, yet lively and always cruising and grazing. I'm not at all surprised that they're after the green fuzz. They seem to like BBA first, and other soft green algaes second. Heh, plus any other sort of fish food that lands in the tank. My SAEs love to swim in the shoal with the Hockey Tetras. They are also direct feeders I noticed today, they swim up to near the tank top and eat flake food directly, which I find a bit strange, since they spend a lot of time (when they settle) grazing on that brown shite that has taken hold on many things in the tank. They do a better job on the plants than the Mystery Snail too, as far as cleaning plant leaves of diatom deposits. I am starting to wonder if I have enough light actually. I calculated it to be 1.24WpG; I do get streaming pearling, bubble pearling about 4 or 5 hours after the lights come on, and my CO2 is about 15ppm going off my pH (6.8) and KH (5dKH/98.5ppm) readings. I just started a daily fertilizer routine, but I am wondering if fertilizing only in the water column is going to be enough. The Blue Stricta's prolific new growth seems to be more yellow than it's older leaves, and the Asian Ambula gets light green new tips which upon maturation seem to turn a rusty brown colour (seems to be diatom city on this plant). I gently "scrub" a lot of the leaves on my broad leaved plants with a very soft toothbrush, when doing water or filter media changes or maintinence because if I don't they all end up covered in brown stuff. It's really annoying and I was hoping the little SAEs would help me with this task (as they do, but there's only two of them and they are small atm). Any way I am still patiently waiting for the chemistry to settle in this relatively new tank, and I was wondering if fertilizing at this stage is the wisest thing to do? For the record, I am dosing 1/2 the recommended amount of liquid fertilizer, to make sure I don't upset any more of the chemical balance in the tank, or heaven forbid a green algae outbreak on top of the brown stuff. The fertilizer I am using has no phosphate or nitrate according to the label. I don't want any of my fish to die either from chemical imbalance, but I would like big dark green leaves on my plants, lots of pearling and two healthy and robust SAE's at least 3" long ;) Oz -- My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith -- __ Elaine T __ __' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ |
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:19:59 GMT, Elaine T
wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: Elaine T wrote: Nice pics! I'm so glad the ruby shark hasn't terrorized them. They'll figure out the algae thing when they settle in and start to get hungry. They're slender fish, so they won't clean a tank overnight like a pleco. Hi Elaine, I too have fallen in love with the SAEs. I now have 16 of them. In a 75 gallon tank (9 SAEs) they often come to rest like fairies resting on annubia leaves. For some reason, in this tank and only this tank, when I put my arm in to do plant maintenance or clean algae from the glass, the SAEs gather round my arm and nip at the skin. I sometimes chase them and they come right back. I swear they know I am playing. Great community tank fish, so gentle, and useful to boot. dick Well, they worked. They have cleared 95% of the BBA. The 5% left is very short stubbly growth on the leaf surfaces of my Saururus cernuus. They target the BBA very specifically. It's around the leaf edges and stems that the SAE spend most of their time. They've certainly evolved into a niche exclusive to themselves. The ruby shark does give chase to the larger SAE, but gets bored within seconds. It's very passive, or extremely sophisticated and has learnt what it is like to be bullied.. The SAE seem to spend most of their time as a threesome, together grazing algae. They're certainly more gregarious than my mollies. At the start, the two smallest SAE spent a whole day chasing the other one's tail, à la flying foxes. Their dark bands became greyed out or broken up as if stressed out. I'm not sure what they were trying to prove, but that's behind them now. Hey, they also like to graze on the green fuzz algae that grows on the glass surfaces. No other fish touch this. If I look very closely I can see them clearing a path through the fuzz. They're very funny to watch with their vibrating mouths! I think they go at something like 10 Hz? LOL! Cool! That's great news. I'm so glad they settled into the tank. I've liked SAE since I found my first real ones many years ago - they're gentle enough to be tankmates for just about anything, yet lively and always cruising and grazing. I'm not at all surprised that they're after the green fuzz. They seem to like BBA first, and other soft green algaes second. Heh, plus any other sort of fish food that lands in the tank. |
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