OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely
time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get
green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me as
it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants.

I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into from
the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have no fish
in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of BBA and
still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of
blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2
for that period.

Plan C is to strip the tank.

Nikki

In article ,
Nikki Casali wrote:
OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely
time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get
green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me as
it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants.

I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into from
the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have no fish
in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of BBA and
still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of
blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2
for that period.

Plan C is to strip the tank.

Nikki


Two cc/gallon of Hydrogen peroxide will kill it. Get ready for big
water changes as it sloughs off, the H202 will also kill the good
bacteria and you'll need to cycle your tank again. Get your tank
as clean as possible before doing this as it will react with any organics
(ie, dirt, mulm etc). You may need to do this 2-3 times every other
day. But I have done this to eradicate (not control) red algae
(which is what BBA and black staghorn alage are). Green alage are
less affected if at all.

Fish, shrimp and msot plants are unaffected. Ones that may be hurt
are hornwort and swords. Crypts seem immune to the stuff.

Aquarium pharmecuticals Algae FIx also works but is toxic to
all invertebrates.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

On 2005-01-15, Nikki Casali wrote:
still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of
blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2
for that period.

Yea - I missed what plan A was, but the blackout method works like a
charm. Kills it dead. Not a sign of a comeback for a month here. I
did a blackout with towels for three or five days (forget which). No
feeding, no CO2.



--
Ross Vandegrift

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37

"Ross Vandegrift" wrote in message
...
On 2005-01-15, Nikki Casali wrote:
still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of
blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2
for that period.

Yea - I missed what plan A was, but the blackout method works like a
charm. Kills it dead. Not a sign of a comeback for a month here. I
did a blackout with towels for three or five days (forget which). No
feeding, no CO2.



--
Ross Vandegrift

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37

the blackout killed the BBA. I know it will kill BGA but many have had no
success with blacking out the tank to control BBA. Let us know how you make
out.

Rick

Ross Vandegrift wrote:
On 2005-01-15, Nikki Casali wrote:

still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of
blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2
for that period.


Yea - I missed what plan A was, but the blackout method works like a
charm. Kills it dead. Not a sign of a comeback for a month here. I
did a blackout with towels for three or five days (forget which). No
feeding, no CO2.

Plan A was to improve the nutrient balance to inspire lush plant growth.
The Water Sprite got the hint. Now little room for fish to swim. All
that did was put BBA on cryogenic hold until the exploitation of the
next micro-imbalance e.g. a couple of extra fish flakes.

I wonder if there is a frequency of light that algae cannot utilise in
any shape or form that fish can see with? That would allow the fish to
continue their activities in the blackout period.

Nikki

On 2005-01-15, Nikki Casali wrote:
I wonder if there is a frequency of light that algae cannot utilise in
any shape or form that fish can see with? That would allow the fish to
continue their activities in the blackout period.

My fish didn't really stop their activities while blacked out - they
whenever I'd check under the towels, they were as active as ever. After
the lights came back on, they were mostly excited to eat as usual ::-)


--
Ross Vandegrift

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37

On 2005-01-15, Nikki Casali wrote:

Plan A was to improve the nutrient balance to inspire lush plant growth.
The Water Sprite got the hint. Now little room for fish to swim. All
that did was put BBA on cryogenic hold until the exploitation of the
next micro-imbalance e.g. a couple of extra fish flakes.


I don't know your details, but in my limited experience, I had to
dose potassium to help the plants. If there's fauna, they should
produce enough phosphates and nitrates for the plants.

I use Seachem Flourish, Excel, and potassium. I pulled out algae
infested leaves as it was convenient, and just had to be patient.
I've never tried blacking out the tank.

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

Nikki Casali wrote:
OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely
time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get
green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me as
it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants.

I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into from
the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have no fish
in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of BBA and
still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of
blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2
for that period.

Plan C is to strip the tank.

Nikki

I missed plan A so apologies if someone already suggested this. Is
there some reason you cannot find or keep Crossocheilus siamensis
(Siamese algae eaters or SAE)? They really, truly do eat BBA and will
keep it under control.

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html describes the fish. The
article is 10 years old, and now there is a demand for the true SAE so
they are not difficult to find in LFS.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

Elaine T wrote:
Nikki Casali wrote:

OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely
time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get
green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me
as it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants.

I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into from
the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have no fish
in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of BBA and
still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how many days of
blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume I'd stop all CO2
for that period.

Plan C is to strip the tank.

Nikki

I missed plan A so apologies if someone already suggested this. Is
there some reason you cannot find or keep Crossocheilus siamensis
(Siamese algae eaters or SAE)? They really, truly do eat BBA and will
keep it under control.

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html describes the fish. The
article is 10 years old, and now there is a demand for the true SAE so
they are not difficult to find in LFS.


Oooh, it's complicated!

I have 1 Ruby Shark (4 years), 1 Redtail Shark (4 years) and 1 Harlequin
Shark (4 months). They are all mortal enemies. No one told me about the
sheer pathological aggression of the Harlequin when I got him. They just
said he was the best algae eater around. My 2 older sharks just about
tolerated each other. One became nocturnal.

When I introduced the Harlequin everything was fine until 2 weeks later
when all hell broke loose. One morning I found the Redtail shivering in
one corner, absolutely terrified! Mr Harlequin had gained enough
confidence within 2 weeks to begin savagely attacking it. I had finally
found a fish more aggressive than a Redtail! The nocturnal Ruby Shark
wasn't stupid and decided to hibernate in one tight corner for most of
24 hours. One day I even came across the Harlequin with its sucker mouth
clasped against one of my Angelfish. What?!

I removed the Harlequin and Redtail Sharks to the quarantine tank, with
a divider, permanently. I am now left with the less aggressive Ruby
Shark in the main tank.

Would the Ruby Shark tolerate a Crossocheilus siamensis? I'm running out
of quarantine tanks though!

Nikki

Nikki Casali wrote:


Elaine T wrote:

Nikki Casali wrote:

OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA extremely
time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I don't even get
green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but it still bugs me
as it excludes me from keeping very slow growing plants.

I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into
from the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have
no fish in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of
BBA and still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how
many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume
I'd stop all CO2 for that period.

Plan C is to strip the tank.

Nikki

I missed plan A so apologies if someone already suggested this. Is
there some reason you cannot find or keep Crossocheilus siamensis
(Siamese algae eaters or SAE)? They really, truly do eat BBA and will
keep it under control.

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html describes the fish.
The article is 10 years old, and now there is a demand for the true
SAE so they are not difficult to find in LFS.


Oooh, it's complicated!

I have 1 Ruby Shark (4 years), 1 Redtail Shark (4 years) and 1 Harlequin
Shark (4 months). They are all mortal enemies. No one told me about the
sheer pathological aggression of the Harlequin when I got him. They just
said he was the best algae eater around. My 2 older sharks just about
tolerated each other. One became nocturnal.

When I introduced the Harlequin everything was fine until 2 weeks later
when all hell broke loose. One morning I found the Redtail shivering in
one corner, absolutely terrified! Mr Harlequin had gained enough
confidence within 2 weeks to begin savagely attacking it. I had finally
found a fish more aggressive than a Redtail! The nocturnal Ruby Shark
wasn't stupid and decided to hibernate in one tight corner for most of
24 hours. One day I even came across the Harlequin with its sucker mouth
clasped against one of my Angelfish. What?!

I removed the Harlequin and Redtail Sharks to the quarantine tank, with
a divider, permanently. I am now left with the less aggressive Ruby
Shark in the main tank.

Would the Ruby Shark tolerate a Crossocheilus siamensis? I'm running out
of quarantine tanks though!

Nikki

If your "harlequin shark" has a suckermouth, it is not a relative of C.
siamensis, L. bicolor (redtail shark) or E. frenatus (ruby shark). None
of these fish have suckermouths. It is most likely a dreaded Chinese
algae eater (CAE) or Gyrinocheilus aymonieri.
http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/gyr_aym.html CAE get very
aggressive as they grow, especially towards similarly shaped fish. They
have been rumored to feed on slimecoats of other fish as they age, thus
the angelfish sucking behavior.

If you look at some more pictures of G. aymonieri and that's indeed what
your "harlequin shark" is, I would return it to LFS. It will never be
suitable for a community tank. If they complain, just leave it anyway -
they'll figure out something to do with it. After all, they gave you
the bad advice in the first place.

Now, as for ruby shark and SAE, I've personally kept 3 SAE and one
flying fox (E. kalopterus) together and things were fine. The flying
fox chased the SAE around some, but always got distracted because there
were 3 of them. I think of Flying foxes and ruby sharks as similarly
aggressive with redtails as the psycho killer member of the family.
So...What I would personally try is 3 or 4 SAE - the largest you can buy
- if you have the tank room. My best guess is that the ruby shark will
most likely chase the SAE around, but the aggression will be spread
amongst the SAE and they will be OK. But this is only a guess based on
my flying fox experience!

Hopefully someone else will post who has actually tried ruby sharks and
SAE together.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

Elaine T wrote:
Nikki Casali wrote:



Elaine T wrote:

Nikki Casali wrote:

OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA
extremely time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I
don't even get green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but
it still bugs me as it excludes me from keeping very slow growing
plants.

I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into
from the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have
no fish in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill of
BBA and still give the plants a fighting chance? For example, how
many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I presume
I'd stop all CO2 for that period.

Plan C is to strip the tank.

Nikki

I missed plan A so apologies if someone already suggested this. Is
there some reason you cannot find or keep Crossocheilus siamensis
(Siamese algae eaters or SAE)? They really, truly do eat BBA and
will keep it under control.

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html describes the fish.
The article is 10 years old, and now there is a demand for the true
SAE so they are not difficult to find in LFS.


Oooh, it's complicated!

I have 1 Ruby Shark (4 years), 1 Redtail Shark (4 years) and 1
Harlequin Shark (4 months). They are all mortal enemies. No one told
me about the sheer pathological aggression of the Harlequin when I got
him. They just said he was the best algae eater around. My 2 older
sharks just about tolerated each other. One became nocturnal.

When I introduced the Harlequin everything was fine until 2 weeks
later when all hell broke loose. One morning I found the Redtail
shivering in one corner, absolutely terrified! Mr Harlequin had gained
enough confidence within 2 weeks to begin savage
lyattackingit.Ihadfinally
found a fish more aggressive than a Redtail! The nocturnal Ruby Shark
wasn't stupid and decided to hibernate in one tight corner for most of
24 hours. One day I even came across the Harlequin with its sucker
mouth clasped against one of my Angelfish. What?!

I removed the Harlequin and Redtail Sharks to the quarantine tank,
with a divider, permanently. I am now left with the less aggressive
Ruby Shark in the main tank.

Would the Ruby Shark tolerate a Crossocheilus siamensis? I'm running
out of quarantine tanks though!

Nikki

If your "harlequin shark" has a suckermouth, it is not a relative of C.
siamensis, L. bicolor (redtail shark) or E. frenatus (ruby shark). None
of these fish have suckermouths. It is most likely a dreaded Chinese
algae eater (CAE) or Gyrinocheilus aymonieri.

Yes, it looks very much like a variant of Labeo variegatus, which is the
one I have:
http://www.thatfishshop.com/findex/f...variegatus.htm

http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/gyr_aym.html CAE get very
aggressive as they grow, especially towards similarly shaped fish. They
have been rumored to feed on slimecoats of other fish as they age, thus
the angelfish sucking behavior.

If you look at some more pictures of G. aymonieri and that's indeed what
your "harlequin shark" is, I would return it to LFS. It will never be
suitable for a community tank. If they complain, just leave it anyway -
they'll figure out something to do with it. After all, they gave you
the bad advice in the first place.


Believe it or not, they had an offer the day I bought it. Buy 2 for £28!
Fortunately, I just bought the one.

Now, as for ruby shark and SAE, I've personally kept 3 SAE and one
flying fox (E. kalopterus) together and things were fine. The flying
fox chased the SAE around some, but always got distracted because there
were 3 of them. I think of Flying foxes and ruby sharks as similarly
aggressive with redtails as the psycho killer member of the family.

My experience totally agrees.

So...What I would personally try is 3 or 4 SAE - the largest you can buy
- if you have the tank room. My best guess is that the ruby shark will
most likely chase the SAE around, but the aggression will be spread
amongst the SAE and they will be OK. But this is only a guess based on
my flying fox experience!

Hopefully someone else will post who has actually tried ruby sharks and
SAE together.


I definitely need some critter to clean the BBA from the leaves as most
leaves are affected, almost imperceptibly though. The PO4 is under
control. They say to prune all leaves that are infected at this stage.
If I did that, the only leaf in the tank left would be the Water Sprite.

Do you know the mechanism SAE use to prise away BBA? I still can't
believe that anything could have the equipment to get rid of this stuff!

Nikki

Nikki Casali wrote:


Elaine T wrote:

Nikki Casali wrote:



Elaine T wrote:

Nikki Casali wrote:

OK, so moving on to plan B. I am finding the control of BBA
extremely time consuming. It's the most tenacious algae. Hell, I
don't even get green spot algae anymore. BBA grows very slowly, but
it still bugs me as it excludes me from keeping very slow growing
plants.

I have a spare 110 litre aquarium I wish to move all my fish into
from the 330 litre, temporarily. Given that the main tank will have
no fish in it, how far can I push a treatment to guarantee a kill
of BBA and still give the plants a fighting chance? For example,
how many days of blackout would be required, 3, 7, 14 days?? I
presume I'd stop all CO2 for that period.

Plan C is to strip the tank.

Nikki

I missed plan A so apologies if someone already suggested this. Is
there some reason you cannot find or keep Crossocheilus siamensis
(Siamese algae eaters or SAE)? They really, truly do eat BBA and
will keep it under control.

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html describes the fish.
The article is 10 years old, and now there is a demand for the true
SAE so they are not difficult to find in LFS.


Oooh, it's complicated!

I have 1 Ruby Shark (4 years), 1 Redtail Shark (4 years) and 1
Harlequin Shark (4 months). They are all mortal enemies. No one told
me about the sheer pathological aggression of the Harlequin when I
got him. They just said he was the best algae eater around. My 2
older sharks just about tolerated each other. One became nocturnal.

When I introduced the Harlequin everything was fine until 2 weeks
later when all hell broke loose. One morning I found the Redtail
shivering in one corner, absolutely terrified! Mr Harlequin had
gained enough confidence within 2 weeks to begin savage
lyattackingit.Ihadfinally
found a fish more aggressive than a Redtail! The nocturnal Ruby Shark
wasn't stupid and decided to hibernate in one tight corner for most
of 24 hours. One day I even came across the Harlequin with its sucker
mouth clasped against one of my Angelfish. What?!

I removed the Harlequin and Redtail Sharks to the quarantine tank,
with a divider, permanently. I am now left with the less aggressive
Ruby Shark in the main tank.

Would the Ruby Shark tolerate a Crossocheilus siamensis? I'm running
out of quarantine tanks though!

Nikki

If your "harlequin shark" has a suckermouth, it is not a relative of
C. siamensis, L. bicolor (redtail shark) or E. frenatus (ruby shark).
None of these fish have suckermouths. It is most likely a dreaded
Chinese algae eater (CAE) or Gyrinocheilus aymonieri.


Yes, it looks very much like a variant of Labeo variegatus, which is the
one I have:
http://www.thatfishshop.com/findex/f...variegatus.htm

http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/gyr_aym.html CAE get very
aggressive as they grow, especially towards similarly shaped fish.
They have been rumored to feed on slimecoats of other fish as they
age, thus the angelfish sucking behavior.

If you look at some more pictures of G. aymonieri and that's indeed
what your "harlequin shark" is, I would return it to LFS. It will
never be suitable for a community tank. If they complain, just leave
it anyway - they'll figure out something to do with it. After all,
they gave you the bad advice in the first place.


Believe it or not, they had an offer the day I bought it. Buy 2 for £28!
Fortunately, I just bought the one.


Wow. I've never even seen L. variegatus for sale over here. I'll know
not to buy one! Maybe your LFS will take it back if it's rare in the UK.

Now, as for ruby shark and SAE, I've personally kept 3 SAE and one
flying fox (E. kalopterus) together and things were fine. The flying
fox chased the SAE around some, but always got distracted because
there were 3 of them. I think of Flying foxes and ruby sharks as
similarly aggressive with redtails as the psycho killer member of the
family.


My experience totally agrees.

So...What I would personally try is 3 or 4 SAE - the largest you can
buy - if you have the tank room. My best guess is that the ruby shark
will most likely chase the SAE around, but the aggression will be
spread amongst the SAE and they will be OK. But this is only a guess
based on my flying fox experience!

Hopefully someone else will post who has actually tried ruby sharks
and SAE together.


I definitely need some critter to clean the BBA from the leaves as most
leaves are affected, almost imperceptibly though. The PO4 is under
control. They say to prune all leaves that are infected at this stage.
If I did that, the only leaf in the tank left would be the Water Sprite.

Do you know the mechanism SAE use to prise away BBA? I still can't
believe that anything could have the equipment to get rid of this stuff!

Nikki

The fish seem to eat the soft, fuzzy strands. They don't actually
scrape the algae off of things so you'll still see some dark spotting.
I had to scrub my the remainder of the algae off of my heater and filter
intakes when I had an infested tank. However, new plant growth comes in
virtually algae free since they eat the tender new algae as soon as it
starts to get a foothold. Your plants will gradually shed the infested
leaves and start to look green again.

Oh - and if you try SAE, feed the tank as lightly as you can. SAE eat
all sorts of fish foods, and won't eat algae as diligently if they've
stuffed themselves on flakes.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

Elaine T wrote:
Nikki Casali wrote:

Yes, it looks very much like a variant of Labeo variegatus, which is
the one I have:
http://www.thatfishshop.com/findex/f...variegatus.htm

http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/gyr_aym.html CAE get very
aggressive as they grow, especially towards similarly shaped fish.
They have been rumored to feed on slimecoats of other fish as they
age, thus the angelfish sucking behavior.

If you look at some more pictures of G. aymonieri and that's indeed
what your "harlequin shark" is, I would return it to LFS. It will
never be suitable for a community tank. If they complain, just leave
it anyway - they'll figure out something to do with it. After all,
they gave you the bad advice in the first place.


Believe it or not, they had an offer the day I bought it. Buy 2 for
£28! Fortunately, I just bought the one.


Wow. I've never even seen L. variegatus for sale over here. I'll know
not to buy one! Maybe your LFS will take it back if it's rare in the UK.


I discovered, after speaking to an assistant at a LFS, that there is a
ban on them being sold now. He presumed it was to do with the rarity in
their natural habitat.


Do you know the mechanism SAE use to prise away BBA? I still can't
believe that anything could have the equipment to get rid of this stuff!


The fish seem to eat the soft, fuzzy strands. They don't actually
scrape the algae off of things so you'll still see some dark spotting.
I had to scrub my the remainder of the algae off of my heater and filter
intakes when I had an infested tank. However, new plant growth comes in
virtually algae free since they eat the tender new algae as soon as it
starts to get a foothold. Your plants will gradually shed the infested
leaves and start to look green again.

Oh - and if you try SAE, feed the tank as lightly as you can. SAE eat
all sorts of fish foods, and won't eat algae as diligently if they've
stuffed themselves on flakes.


I'm taking time off work to get 3 SAE tomorrow. 3 enough in a 330 litre
tank? The algae eaters I already have are 7 Ancistrus and 2 Otocinclus.

Nikki

On 2005-01-16, Nikki Casali wrote:

Do you know the mechanism SAE use to prise away BBA? I still can't
believe that anything could have the equipment to get rid of this stuff!


In my experience with SAEs, they'll eat the stuff if there's nothing
else for them to eat. Once they get a taste of any other food, they
don't work on the algae as hard. SAEs will get big. I'd recommend
one per thirty gallons. If I had to do it over again, I'd probably
keep SAEs in as the only bottom feeders in a plant only tank.
Keep in mind, if you have any Myriophyllum (frill or parrots feather),
they will tear those up.

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

On 2005-01-17, Nikki Casali wrote:

I'm taking time off work to get 3 SAE tomorrow. 3 enough in a 330 litre
tank? The algae eaters I already have are 7 Ancistrus and 2 Otocinclus.


Just make sure you get a true siamensis.

http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9


--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman