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Janet Baraclough wrote:
Seasalt rain does contribute to our acid-rain problems. Salt does not make things acidic, it buffers the acidity and raises the pH of acidic solutions. So if you have acid rain, you do not have saline rain. The reverse is true, acid rain causes salt depletion. Look up the websites in my post to Stephen, he has misled you. Which one, the one on the increased salinity of Australia's arid regions by rainwater or the picture of Brodick Castle with no rhododendrons or azaleas in it. We are not talking about property boundaries, but about where rhododendrons and azaleas thrive. Just because you can raise rhododendrons and azaleas and own some swamp land doesn't mean that they thrive in swamp land. Let's use some logic here. -- Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at: http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhody.html Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at: http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhodybooks.html Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA Zone 6 |
Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message from Stephen Henning contains these words: RBG of Edinburgh, 1.5 miles from the firth of Forth, not very close. The RBGE has an elevation of 134 meters. Younter Botanic Garden at Benmore features a 450 foot high view point. And the YBG garden goes down to 15m above the sea. RBGE is on a raised beach a few hundred yards from the sea at Leith (an Edinburgh port). The elevation is 20 to 40 m, not 134 m as you claim. Figures from their own website below. www.rbge.org.uk/rbge/web/hort/four.jsp http://www.nts.org.uk/web/site/home/...056&NavId=5110 is a map showing the garden's true location at the edge of the water, NOT as you claim "Crarae Gardens, 1000 feet from Loch Fyne, not very close".. http://www.nts.org.uk/web/site/home/...053&NavId=5110 gives a map of Arduaine Garden, right on the coast and a maximum 100 ft above sealevel, NOT 239 ft as you claim. The websites quoted belong to the Royal Botanical gardens (owners of Benmore and Edinburgh Botanical Garden) and The National Trust for Scotland, owners of Arduaine, Inverewe and Crarae. http://www.nts.org.uk/web/site/home/...103&NavId=5122 for sea-location of Inverewe azaleas in flower by the sea at Inverewe. http://www.gardens-guide.com/gardenp...0_inverewe.jpg Janet. Janet you are an IDIOT you don't even read the web sites you cite. -- Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 5 |
Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message from (paghat) contains these words: In article , Janet Baraclough wrote: The rain, and wind, come from 300 miles of Atlantic ocean and are heavily salt-laden. Next you'll be asserting water can be lit on fire! Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. Wrong. http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/env...#salt%20source I haven't said Scottish soil is saline. It clearly isn't because it's fertile. However, plants (and everything else) are constantly salted-upon, because of weather conditions here. Because of the high rainfall, salt doesn't accumulate to a harmful degree as it does in dry climates like Australia's; but seasalt rain does contribute to our acid-rain problems. Scotland is almost as good as the Pacific Northwest for rhodies because they require acidic soils & areas of heavy rainfall wash salts OUT of the soil which results in acidity. In LOW-preciptation regions soils become saline. And rhododendrons will no longer grow. I haven't claimed the soil is saline. The original post to which I replied, said that ericaceous plants do not grow beside the sea. They do, here. And also as in the Pacific Northwest rhodies can be grown just about anywhere in Scotland EXCEPT along salty shores or saltmarshes. Wrong. There are many parts of Scotland where they can't grow. They do grow along the west coast shore. Perhaps your personal understanding of "shore" is limited; not all shores and seabords are sand beach or saltmarsh. In Scotland saline garden soils are caused by immediate proximity to shores or lochs, from irrigation gotten from brackish groundwater of the lochs, & from chemicalized agricultural methods. What saline soils? You clearly know nothing of gardening, irrigation or agriculture in Scotland. If you can cite something factual & scientific as evidence that the Atlantic ocean leaps up & jumps 300 miles inland, No part of Scotland is more than 40 miles from the sea. (There is no "300 miles inland", anywhere in Britain.). Salt blows in, on wind and rain, during storms. But please, no more of these fairytales about your allegedly busy life spent in all the gardens of scotland That fairy tale is your own. Look up the websites in my post to Stephen, he has misled you. Janet. Salt *does* *not* rain from the sky. -- Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 5 |
presley wrote:
Warren, you're not as informed as you think you are. http://landresources.montana.edu/LRE...stry_Web.pd f According to the site above, from University of Montana, the composition of rainfall is nearly identical to seawater with some additional molecules picked up in the atmosphere. Furthermore, rainfall is NEVER simple H20 - because it also picks up many gases that are present in the atmosphere and transports them. However, more pertinent to the ongoing argument is the fact that strong winds (as in hurricane or near-hurricane force winds) which Scotland is subject to every year,send salt spray MILES inland - not a few feet, or even a few hundred feet. This can be verified in any google search. I think that the issue has been clouded by all this talk about what hits the leaves of the plants. It is clear that the initial post had to do with what happened at the ROOTS of the plants in question. It is VERY evident that rhododendrons cannot have their roots soaked in salt water that sits on them. Constant movement of water through the root zone will wash the salts through them or out of them - but it has to be water that is relatively low in salts, and the plants have to have excellent drainage. A plant sitting in a low spot with salt water swirling around its base is a goner - no question. A plant on a hillside hit with a strong blast of very salty water but subsequently flushed with plenty of water that moves through and out of the root zone will probably be fine. Janet is not claiming that Scottish rhododendrons are living in salt marshes. What she IS claiming is that they live in rather close proximity to the sea in rather salty environments in Scotland - albeit in regions of very high rainfall. A plant sitting in a low spot with distilled water swirling around its base is a gonner. -- Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 5 |
presley wrote:
A further elaboration of the theme of the chemical composition of rainfall: "What is a chemical salt recipe for 'typical' rainwater? Rainwater gets its compositions largely by dissolving particulate materials in the atmosphere (upper troposhere) when droplets of water nucleate on atmospheric particulates, and secondarily by dissolving gasses from the atmosphere. Rainwater compositions vary geographically. In open ocean and coastal areas they have a salt content essentially like that of sea water (same ionic proportions but much more dilute) plus CO2 as bicarbonate anion (acidic pH). Terrestrial rain compositions vary siginificantly from place to place because the regional geology can greatly affect the types of particulates that get added to the atmosphere. Likewise, sources of gaesous acids (SO3, NO2) and bases (NH3) vary as a function of biome factors and anthopogenic land use practices. Each of these gasses can be added in varying proportions from natural and non natural input sources (non-natural sources of SO3 and NO2 far outweigh natural ones). Particulate load to the atmosphere can also be greatly affected by human activities. Finally, local climate (especially the amount of precipitation in one area compared to another) will affect the solute concentrations in terrestrial rainwaters. The result is highly variable compositions, so there isn't one simple formula. If you want to read up a bit on this and see data for rainwater from many different locales globally, I suggest the book "Global Environment: water air and geochemical cycles" by Berner and Berner (Prentice-Hall, 1996) or a similar text " Here in the PNW our rain comes in off the Pacific Ocean and it is not the least bit salty. -- Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 5 |
Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message from "Warren" contains these words: Janet Baraclough wrote: The rain, and wind, come from 300 miles of Atlantic ocean and are heavily salt-laden. Next you'll be asserting water can be lit on fire! Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. Wrong. http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/env...#salt%20source If what you got out of that page is that salt can be evaporated into the clouds, and that rain in coastal areas contains salt, then we can clearly see how little you understand about even the most simple science. You're incompetent. That page makes it perfectly clear; quote *"Where does the salt come from? *Soil salt can come from three main sources: * 1. From the breakdown of parent rock: A very slow process. * 2. From geological inundation by the oceans: Only on discrete parts of Australia. * 3. From wind blown salt, usually in rain water from the ocean. *Salt in rainfall can range from about 20 kg/ha/per annum (usually inland with low rainfall) to more *than 200 kg/ha/per annum (usually coastal with high rainfall). In most of Australia, this is the source *of stored salts. " end quote. Presley has given another cite telling you the same thing. You can stop trying to be right. You can stop trying to prove that accepted science is wrong. Every time you post, you demonstrate how little you know, and how difficult of a time you have dealing with being wrong. Save us all the pain of watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper into your pit of humiliation. Stop now, because you obviously don't have the temperament to deal with any further embarrassment. I suggest you apply that to yourself, Stephen and Paghat. You jumped on the wrong bandwagon, Warren; your heroes are not the experts they pretend and now you've been hoist on their own petard of lies and deliberate misrepresentations. Janet. There are many places in North America with salt deposits left from the Oceanic inundation not just Australia. -- Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 5 |
The message
from Stephen Henning contains these words: Janet Baraclough wrote: Look up the websites in my post to Stephen, he has misled you. Which one, the one on the increased salinity of Australia's arid regions by rainwater No, that was in a post to Paghat, showing her that she was wrong in saying ocean rain does not contain salt. Look up the websites in my post replying to you. or the picture of Brodick Castle with no rhododendrons or azaleas in it. Yes there are. You said I spent most of the month of May visiting Scotland's famous rhododendron and azalea gardens and none grew rhododendrons nor azaleas near the open sea or near the beaches. The rhododendron and azalea gardens I visited we Brodick Castle & Gardens, Isle of Arran (on an island on the Firth of Clyde, but it is situated high not near the sea) http://www.arransites.co.uk/images/bro_castle2.jpg Now, the picture clearly shows that Brodick Castle's garden IS near the sea, and is not "high". Those are contrary to your claims. Now, you say the picture "does not show rhododendrons or azaleas in it". But you agree above, it is a famous rhododendron garden and you visited it to see them. How strange, that you don't know Brodick Castle's most famous rhodo area is the section at the bottom of the garden adjoining the coast road, and that the dense greenery lining the road, clearly visible in the picture, right beside the sea, is a wide variety of rhododdendrons. The other websites I mentioned, give the true locations and elevations and descriptions of the other gardens you wrongly described as "high up", "not near the sea" or not "growing rhododendrons and azaleas near the sea". Just because you can raise rhododendrons and azaleas and own some swamp land doesn't mean that they thrive in swamp land. ? I don't own any swamp land or claim rhododendrons and azaleas thrive in swamps. Let's use some logic here. Okay. Why is it, that you make so many glaring errors of fact , description AND location about gardens you claim to have visited very recently? Janet |
Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message from "Warren" contains these words: Thank goodness you pointed out how everyone else lies so much, otherwise I'd never realize that you're the only generous who really knows how to grow azaleas! There's another of your lies, Warren. I haven't said *everyone* else lies. You do, clearly. Ah. That clears it up. You don't know what the definition of a lie is. A lie is a known false statement deliberately presented as being true. It is not simply something that is factually incorrect. And certainly isn't something that is factually incorrect on a technicality. If I say "tall people bump their heads on doorways", that's not a "lie" even if technically they don't always bump their heads. If I say "a tall person just bumped his head on my doorway", that would be a lie because not only isn't it true, I know it's not true, and I deliberately presented it as being true. However if I believe that a tall person bumped his head, and it turns out he didn't, it would not have been a lie for me to say it because I believed it to be true at the time. So the problem isn't that you're calling people liars when they aren't telling lies. The problem is you're calling people liars because you don't know what a lie is! That explains a lot! You're not a wicked name caller. You're just ignorant. BTW... Are you going to put your money where your mouth is, and offer to pay for any damage that happens if it turns out you're not right about azaleas thriving in salt water conditions? Or are you ready to back down from your ridiculous assertion that azaleas thrive in salty conditions? You side-stepped that in your last reply, and I'm all ready to pour some sal****er on my azaleas per your recommendation, but not if you're not willing to stand behind your statements. Admitting that you might be wrong about azaleas thriving in salt water wouldn't make you a liar. It's quite obvious that you really believe(d) it to be true, which means admitting that you may have been wrong isn't the same as admitting you're a liar -- unless you then claim that you never said something that you did. Or you can just call me a liar again, and demonstrate your ignorance once more. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Have an outdoor project? Get a Black & Decker power tool:: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/ |
The message wosLe.2468$%K4.1348@trnddc09
from "Travis" contains these words: You've messed the attributions, Travis; now you won't know who to insult. Paghat said: Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. I replied Wrong. http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/env...#salt%20source Warren replied If what you got out of that page is that salt can be evaporated into the clouds, and that rain in coastal areas contains salt, then we can clearly see how little you understand about even the most simple science. I said You're incompetent. That page makes it perfectly clear; quote *"Where does the salt come from? *Soil salt can come from three main sources: * 1. From the breakdown of parent rock: A very slow process. * 2. From geological inundation by the oceans: Only on discrete parts of Australia. * 3. From wind blown salt, usually in rain water from the ocean. *Salt in rainfall can range from about 20 kg/ha/per annum (usually inland with low rainfall) to more *than 200 kg/ha/per annum (usually coastal with high rainfall). In most of Australia, this is the source *of stored salts. " end quote. Presley has given another cite telling you the same thing. There are many places in North America with salt deposits left from the Oceanic inundation not just Australia. No doubt, but try to keep up. We're discussing, does coastal rain ever contain salt from the sea. Does coastal rain deposit salt on plants and soil. Okay? The websites provided by myself and Presley, show it does, so Paghat and Warren are wrong. Here it is again, just for you. * 3. From wind blown salt, usually in rain water from the ocean. *Salt in rainfall can range from about 20 kg/ha/per annum (usually inland with low rainfall) to more *than 200 kg/ha/per annum (usually coastal with high rainfall). In most of Australia, this is the source *of stored salts. " Janet. |
The message IdsLe.2462$%K4.1759@trnddc09
from "Travis" contains these words: Janet Baraclough wrote: The message from Stephen Henning contains these words: RBG of Edinburgh, 1.5 miles from the firth of Forth, not very close. The RBGE has an elevation of 134 meters. Younter Botanic Garden at Benmore features a 450 foot high view point. And the YBG garden goes down to 15m above the sea. RBGE is on a raised beach a few hundred yards from the sea at Leith (an Edinburgh port). The elevation is 20 to 40 m, not 134 m as you claim. Figures from their own website below. www.rbge.org.uk/rbge/web/hort/four.jsp http://www.nts.org.uk/web/site/home/...056&NavId=5110 is a map showing the garden's true location at the edge of the water, NOT as you claim "Crarae Gardens, 1000 feet from Loch Fyne, not very close".. http://www.nts.org.uk/web/site/home/...053&NavId=5110 gives a map of Arduaine Garden, right on the coast and a maximum 100 ft above sealevel, NOT 239 ft as you claim. The websites quoted belong to the Royal Botanical gardens (owners of Benmore and Edinburgh Botanical Garden) and The National Trust for Scotland, owners of Arduaine, Inverewe and Crarae. http://www.nts.org.uk/web/site/home/...103&NavId=5122 for sea-location of Inverewe azaleas in flower by the sea at Inverewe. http://www.gardens-guide.com/gardenp...0_inverewe.jpg Janet. Janet you are an IDIOT you don't even read the web sites you cite. Are you having some comprehension problems, Travis, or just not keeping up with who said what, again? Which bit of those websites is causing you difficulty? Do explain. Janet |
You are misunderstanding the content of the site. Warren seemed to be
pretending that there is no saline content of rainfall whatsoever - that is patently false. There are scientists who measure these things very carefully, and they have weighed in on the matter in the sites below and elsewhere. But buried in the same site are the words "SAME IONIC PROPORTIONS BUT MUCH MORE DILUTE". There is a great deal of salt in many aquifers, but the water is potable - because it is more DILUTE than seawater. As someone from FAR FAR inland, I can smell the salt in the air long before I'm in sight of the ocean - because salt is coming in on the ocean breeze. Does this mean it is coming in in quantities sufficient to kill vegetation? No. Honestly, there are days I think reading comprehension should be a prerequisite for internet participation. "Travis" wrote in message news:VlsLe.2467$%K4.441@trnddc09... presley wrote: A further elaboration of the theme of the chemical composition of rainfall: "What is a chemical salt recipe for 'typical' rainwater? Rainwater gets its compositions largely by dissolving particulate materials in the atmosphere (upper troposhere) when droplets of water nucleate on atmospheric particulates, and secondarily by dissolving gasses from the atmosphere. Rainwater compositions vary geographically. In open ocean and coastal areas they have a salt content essentially like that of sea water (same ionic proportions but much more dilute) plus CO2 as bicarbonate anion (acidic pH). Terrestrial rain compositions vary siginificantly from place to place because the regional geology can greatly affect the types of particulates that get added to the atmosphere. Likewise, sources of gaesous acids (SO3, NO2) and bases (NH3) vary as a function of biome factors and anthopogenic land use practices. Each of these gasses can be added in varying proportions from natural and non natural input sources (non-natural sources of SO3 and NO2 far outweigh natural ones). Particulate load to the atmosphere can also be greatly affected by human activities. Finally, local climate (especially the amount of precipitation in one area compared to another) will affect the solute concentrations in terrestrial rainwaters. The result is highly variable compositions, so there isn't one simple formula. If you want to read up a bit on this and see data for rainwater from many different locales globally, I suggest the book "Global Environment: water air and geochemical cycles" by Berner and Berner (Prentice-Hall, 1996) or a similar text " Here in the PNW our rain comes in off the Pacific Ocean and it is not the least bit salty. -- Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 5 |
In article , Stephen
Henning wrote: "presley" wrote: Warren, you're not as informed as you think you are. http://landresources.montana.edu/LRE...pic%20B2_Part1 _Solution_Chemistry_Web.pdf According to the site above, from University of Montana, the composition of rainfall is nearly identical to seawater with some additional molecules picked up in the atmosphere. Let's see now: 1) People drink rain water, especially on ocean islands where there is no other fresh water, are very healthy. 2) People who drink sea water die. and you claim that they are the same. I hope you don't try to drink sea water. The methods by which it can be assessed that rainwater is evaporative from the sea measured for it's isotopic signature & ionic proportionality does not mean rainfall that is the "same" as the sea for salt content. When by mass ratio it can be proven that sodium & chloride ions in groundwater are "the same as seawater" this means whatever the salt load (whether barely detectible or extremely great) originated in the ocean vs originating in mineral dissolution or man-caused pollutants. It does NOT mean the groundwater or the rainfall is sal****er. It just doesn't mean that. As sensible to believe being that signatures & proportionality "the same as seawater" means rainfall is teaming with plankton & jellyfish. Salinity in soil DECREASES in areas of highest rainfall. If rain were salty the opposite would be true, & much of the world would drop dead because rainwater would be unfit to drink. Rainfall even lowers the salinity in tidal areas of the ocean itself. In the Ariake Sea for a studied example, salinity for most of the year is a fairly constant 25-26%. During the rainy monsoon season salinity drops to 15% [H. Koike, University of Tokkyo Bulletin 18, 1980]. So too mangrove swamps become decreasingly salinized when deluted during rainy seasons. If the "sameness" of rainwater & seawater was defined by their salt content, tidal environments would not have lowered salinity during heavy rainfall, & the land surface would become so salinized, within a year or two the earth would no longer be habitable my man. What sodium does find its way into rainfall is generally assumed to be of ocean origin. It is such an inconsequential component that rainfall is NEVER given as one of the causes of inland salinization. It's beyond comprehension that even one person really believes rainfall has the same salt content as the sea. Such belief is explicable only if scientific knowledge, ability to reason, or even the ability to draw personal conclusions after opening one's mouth in a rainstorm, are fast slipping away from an increasingly imbecilic population. And so the thread gets increasingly stupid from assertions that rhododendrons are planted as salt air windbreaks, that the Atlantic ocean dumps sal****er 300 miles inland from rainclouds & storms, & that sodium mass ratio statistics for FRESHWATER somehow prove that freshwater is in reality sal****er. Dumb, dumb, dumb. -paghat the ratgirl -- Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson |
In article , "presley"
wrote: As someone from FAR FAR inland, I can smell the salt in the air long before I'm in sight of the ocean - because salt is coming in on the ocean breeze. Salt is odorless. You are smelling poop, decay, & acetate. -paggers -- Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson |
In article , "Warren"
wrote: Janet Baraclough wrote: I suggest you apply that to yourself, Stephen and Paghat. You jumped on the wrong bandwagon, Warren; your heroes are not the experts they pretend and now you've been hoist on their own petard of lies and deliberate misrepresentations. Wow, talk about projecting! -paggers Okay. You win. Azaleas will thrive in salty conditions. I'm ready to go out and pour salt water on all my azaleas based on your convincing arguments. But just in case you're wrong, I'll wait until you put your money where your mouth is, and agree to pay for replacements if you turn out to be wrong. Thank goodness you pointed out how everyone else lies so much, otherwise I'd never realize that you're the only generous who really knows how to grow azaleas! -- Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson |
The message wosLe.2468$%K4.1348@trnddc09
from "Travis" contains these words: You've messed the attributions, Travis; now you won't know who to insult. Paghat said: Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. I replied Wrong. http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/env...#salt%20source Warren replied If what you got out of that page is that salt can be evaporated into the clouds, and that rain in coastal areas contains salt, then we can clearly see how little you understand about even the most simple science. I said You're incompetent. That page makes it perfectly clear; quote *"Where does the salt come from? *Soil salt can come from three main sources: * 1. From the breakdown of parent rock: A very slow process. * 2. From geological inundation by the oceans: Only on discrete parts of Australia. * 3. From wind blown salt, usually in rain water from the ocean. *Salt in rainfall can range from about 20 kg/ha/per annum (usually inland with low rainfall) to more *than 200 kg/ha/per annum (usually coastal with high rainfall). In most of Australia, this is the source *of stored salts. " end quote. Presley has given another cite telling you the same thing. There are many places in North America with salt deposits left from the Oceanic inundation not just Australia. No doubt, but try to keep up. We're discussing, does coastal rain ever contain salt from the sea / Does coastal rain deposit salt on plants and soil. Okay? The websites provided by myself and Presley, show it does, so Paghat and Warren are wrong. Here it is again, just for you. * 3. From wind blown salt, usually in rain water from the ocean. *Salt in rainfall can range from about 20 kg/ha/per annum (usually inland with low rainfall) to more *than 200 kg/ha/per annum (usually coastal with high rainfall). In most of Australia, this is the source *of stored salts. " Janet. |
The message IdsLe.2462$%K4.1759@trnddc09
from "Travis" contains these words: Janet Baraclough wrote: The message from Stephen Henning contains these words: RBG of Edinburgh, 1.5 miles from the firth of Forth, not very close. The RBGE has an elevation of 134 meters. Younter Botanic Garden at Benmore features a 450 foot high view point. And the YBG garden goes down to 15m above the sea. RBGE is on a raised beach a few hundred yards from the sea at Leith (an Edinburgh port). The elevation is 20 to 40 m, not 134 m as you claim. Figures from their own website below. www.rbge.org.uk/rbge/web/hort/four.jsp http://www.nts.org.uk/web/site/home/...056&NavId=5110 is a map showing the garden's true location at the edge of the water, NOT as you claim "Crarae Gardens, 1000 feet from Loch Fyne, not very close".. http://www.nts.org.uk/web/site/home/...053&NavId=5110 gives a map of Arduaine Garden, right on the coast and a maximum 100 ft above sealevel, NOT 239 ft as you claim. The websites quoted belong to the Royal Botanical gardens (owners of Benmore and Edinburgh Botanical Garden) and The National Trust for Scotland, owners of Arduaine, Inverewe and Crarae. http://www.nts.org.uk/web/site/home/...103&NavId=5122 for sea-location of Inverewe azaleas in flower by the sea at Inverewe. http://www.gardens-guide.com/gardenp...0_inverewe.jpg Janet. Janet you are an IDIOT you don't even read the web sites you cite. Which bit of those websites is causing you difficulty? Do explain. Janet |
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On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 22:36:19 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote: You've messed the attributions, Travis; Travis misses a lot, be kind to Mr. one liner, he hasn't even learned to trim posts yet... Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel. -- Aldo Leopold |
In article , Janet Baraclough
wrote: The message from (paghat) contains these words: What sodium does find its way into rainfall is generally assumed to be of ocean origin. Ah, a change of heart from your earlier mistake when you claimed Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. So that says to you salt evaporates does it? Sodium isotopic signatures are not evidence that freshwater is sal****er, no more than is a fingerprint left on your booze glass proof that the glass is actually your finger, or a crime lab's DNA reading from a cigarette butt proof that that cigarettes are people. Here's an elementary school science fact for you: Salt does not evaporate because it is non-volatile. Perhaps you're legitimately not smart enough to tell sal****er from freshwater, but the facts do remain salt does NOT evaporate into clouds & it's loony to persist in your belief that it does. Rainfall does NOT salinize soil as you persist in believing; the facts are the exact opposite of what you eerily want to believe is true. This really simple child's science experiment tends to convince the kiddies: Dissolve precisely 15 ml of salt (about a tablespoon) in a half a cup of water. Set in sun until water evaporates. Weigh salt. From this a very young school child learns that salt does not evaporate or undergo any chemical alteration in water. Alas, I suspect YOUR conclusion would have to be that the 15 ml of crystals left in the cup is dehydrated water concentrate, because the salt evaporated. It's beyond comprehension that even one person really believes rainfall has the same salt content as the sea. Such belief is explicable only if scientific knowledge, ability to reason, or even the ability to draw personal conclusions after opening one's mouth in a rainstorm, are fast slipping away from an increasingly imbecilic population. -paghat the ratgirl -- Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson |
Janet Baraclough expounded:
(It does salinate soil in Australia, btw..cite already provided) No, it doesn't. What salinates the soil in Australia is too complicated to get into here, it has to do with underground salt deposits, the loss of native cover and the inability of the soil to deal with all the water. The salt is already there, in vast underground stores. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3564857.stm for a bit of what's going on. -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** |
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 23:38:19 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote: For the dumber Americans here, WTF does this have to do with Americans? BTW I am a citizen of the United States NOT an American....American covers N and S America....seems your knowledge base needs some updating! Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel. -- Aldo Leopold |
Janet Baraclough wrote:
Where do you think that underground salt store comes from? See below. I've capitalised it, for the benefit of those with poor reading and comprehension skills. It's just too bad that you're so ignorant that you don't even understand what it's really saying. You have totally misinterpreted what it says. It's actually quite amusing that you're using it to prove you're right, when if someone actually reads the whole thing, and understands what it says, they'll see that it doesn't prove your mistaken beliefs at all. It's so sad that you dug so hard, and ignored so much just to find something that you thought backed-up your odd-ball theory. It's even sadder that what you found really doesn't back-up your odd-ball theory because you really don't understand what you're reading. And you have the nerve to suggest that *other* people have poor reading comprehension skills? Sad. Go out and pour some more salt water on your azaleas. That may be the only way you'll understand how wrong you really are. Although based on history, you'll ignore all the dead ones, and claim that the one that survived is proof that salt water doesn't harm them. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Have an outdoor project? Get a Black & Decker power tool:: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/ |
In article , Ann
wrote: Janet Baraclough expounded: Get that? It tells you there is scientific, peer reviewed, accepted agricultural research in Australia into salt precipitated over western Australia. For the dumber Americans here, precipitated means it fell in rain. All you have to do, to learn more about how that rained salt becomes part of the soil salination problem, is read the WA salination website. You know, I just realized how bad you've actually become. Now we should discuss ignorant Brits? Descending to insults is the last bastion of a true loser. Janet's usually not this nutty. I suspect something has gone wrong in life & she's venting in a trolly manner so as not to have to deal with life, or is so sensitized from bad stuff in life that at this point she cannot abide being so damned wrong about ANYthing no matter how wrong she gets. Just guessing, but emotional breakdowns CAN be like mini-psychotic breaks. They generally pass. -paghat the ratgirl The underground salt deposits are from ancient seas, Janet. The water table has risen and brought the salts to the surface. But since that doesn't fit your little theory that salt falls in rainwater you're ignoring it. -- Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson |
In article , Janet Baraclough
wrote: The message from Tom Jaszewski contains these words: On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 23:38:19 +0100, Janet Baraclough wrote: For the dumber Americans here, WTF does this have to do with Americans? Ask Paghat; it was she who referred to America's " increasingly imbecilic population". Janet You mean you're NOT a Scot??? -paggers -- Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson |
Janet Baraclough wrote:
Do you imagine the West Australia Dept of Agriculture has not been to Australia or studied its situation? I'm very surprised you find a talk by a Boston-based photographic journalist, more scientifically significant than their peer-reviewed research. I think everyone is willing to say that the West Australia Dept of Agriculture knows their business. What we're saying is you're not understanding what you're reading. You're taking it so out of context that you think it says just the opposite of what they're really saying. In the very first paragraph it states: "Increased recharge raises the water table, bringing naturally stored salts from depth to the surface." So their point is that the salt problem that rainfall causes is the rise in the water table, not the salt content of the rain itself. While the source of the salt is believed to be the rain water, the amount of salt in the rain is essentially insignificant unless you have no flushing action, and you wait 20,000 years. They're not saying that it rains salt water. Their saying that because of geological conditions salt in the soil isn't being flushed by the rain water. Ann's expert is saying the same thing your expert is saying, but you aren't understanding what your expert is really saying, and you're hearing essentially the opposite of what they actually are saying. You are misunderstanding what you are reading. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Have an outdoor project? Get a Black & Decker power tool:: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/ |
Janet Baraclough wrote:
In the discussion about salty precipitation (which Paghat claimed does not exist), "what I dug up" was Australian Govt research by the Western Australia Dept of Agriculture, proving it does. I cited the Australian site, as proof that coastal precipitation A) does contain salt and B) does deposit that salt on land. Note, I described, above, heavily salt-laden rain and wind. These are incontrovertible sources of information, Ann. Not my opinion, not something I invented. Tell us about how switching from drinking rain water to drinking sea water is going since you have proved they are the same. By the way I bear no responsibility for your demise or funeral costs, try billing that to the Australian Government agency you are quoting. -- Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at: http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhody.html Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at: http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhodybooks.html Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA Zone 6 |
Salt water damage to azaleas
I have a very similar situation yet not quite the same depth or duration of exposure. All my camellias handled the salt water intrusion find as did most of my azaleas. A few, however, lost most or all of their leaves. 2 of them are already starting to regrow leaves but several more show no regrowth. That said, the stems remain green upon cutting, seemingly indicative of a healthy plant. Would you expect them to deteriorate given no leaf regrowth ? It was been 4 weeks.
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