Our large backyard has a large grassy area (approx. 110' X 70'), which
consists mostly of weeds and crabgrass. We want to upgrade it before we
sell the house in 3-4 years. Replacing it with a large lawn will take a
lot of work and expense. Is there a workable alternative that would be
attractive and inexpensive? A friend recommended planting groundcover,
but it's hard to envision such a large area of groundcover. We live in
Western Washington. Thanks for any suggestions/advice.

Although groundcovers are great in the long run (often less maintenance, and
definitely more interesting than grass), they're not going to be cheaper
than bags of grass seed. If you're planning on leaving, I'd go with grass.
I've seen a couple of lawns which were as bad as your description, but were
successfully "conquered" by judicious overseeding and fertilizing through 2
seasons. I'd contact your cooperative extension service
(http://ext.wsu.edu/), confirm the absolute perfect time for starting grass
(probably soon) in your area, and jump all over the project quickly. Your
three biggest hinderances will be the existing weeds, birds (eating the
grass seed), and perhaps a lousy sprinkler that washes away the seed instead
of watering it gently.


"tenplay" wrote in message
...
Our large backyard has a large grassy area (approx. 110' X 70'), which
consists mostly of weeds and crabgrass. We want to upgrade it before we
sell the house in 3-4 years. Replacing it with a large lawn will take a
lot of work and expense. Is there a workable alternative that would be
attractive and inexpensive? A friend recommended planting groundcover,
but it's hard to envision such a large area of groundcover. We live in
Western Washington. Thanks for any suggestions/advice.

tenplay wrote:
Our large backyard has a large grassy area (approx. 110' X 70'), which
consists mostly of weeds and crabgrass. We want to upgrade it before we
sell the house in 3-4 years. Replacing it with a large lawn will take a
lot of work and expense. Is there a workable alternative that would be
attractive and inexpensive? A friend recommended planting groundcover,
but it's hard to envision such a large area of groundcover. We live in
Western Washington. Thanks for any suggestions/advice.

Renovating a 110x70 area is going to take a lot of work and expense no
matter how you renovate it. There are things you can do that will result in
lower maintenance and/or lower maintenance expense, but getting to that
point is going to take some work and some expense.

You can generally reduce the work required by spending more money (as in
paying someone else to do the work), and you can reduce some of the expense
with harder work, but no matter how you cut it (expense vs. work), even the
simplest solution is going to require a lot of one or both. (Some folks
factor in time to spread the work and expense out over a longer period, but
that's only spreading the work and expense out over a longer period, not
reducing the work or expense.)

If you're selling in 3-4 years, it doesn't make much sense developing a
great garden. Everyone has a different idea of what a great garden is, so
you'd be doing nothing but eliminating possible buyers if you do too much.
"Groundcover" can mean a lot of different things, but I can't think of
anything that wouldn't turn-off some buyers.

This is a case where a big lawn would make sense. Families looking for big
play areas won't see the potential if it's not grass. Gardeners looking for
a big (relatively) blank slate to build their dream landscape may not care
for a big lawn, but they'll see the potential. But either way, you're not
going to need to have a perfect lawn. You don't need to create a 110x70
putting green.

It is getting close to the right time to start renovating a lawn in your
area. Or if you're not selling for 3-4 years, you might be able to wait a
year or two. (That would save you the expense of maintaining the lawn once
you put it in place.) If you start in September, you should have it looking
good enough for sale by mid-winter. So starting in the September of the year
before the calendar year you expect to sell would minimize those maintenance
expenses and maintenance work. The actual renovation will still be as much
work and expense, but you won't need to maintain it for long before you pass
it off to someone else. Here's some information on how to renovate your
lawn: http://www.holzemville.com/community...are/intro.html

Now if you were planning on staying longer than 3-4 years I'd suggest
working and spending money on landscaping that you would enjoy looking at,
enjoy maintaining, and not mind the expense of maintaining. And if total
cost is important, than because of those maintenance costs involved with a
lawn, it's unlikely that a plain lawn would be the right answer.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Have an outdoor project? Get a Black & Decker power tool::
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/

I planted 4 acres of lawn this way but I bet I'll get a lot of flak for
this.
1) Use the weeds to your benefit. Spread rye grass/blue grass mix down. THe
weeds will act as "nanny plants" to capture the seed and provide the shade
and moisture needed to sprout it. Fertilize it a feww weeks after sprouting
2) There will be holes next spring so either scuff up the dirt and spread
more seed or let the weeds grow in and repeat. Fertilize again
3) In the fall use a good herbacide and kill off the weeds. fertilize again

At the end of 4 years everything will have grown together into a pretty
decent lawn with minimal work. THe key is having the 3-4 years to grow the
lawn. An instant lawn will take lots of work.
I neglect the crab grass because it to makes a good nanny plant and a thick
lawn will naturally choke it out. I am assuming it is crab grass and not a
different grassy weed. A different grassy weed needs to be treated
differently than crabgrass. SOmetimes you have to knock out the grassy weeds
with roundup.

The other thing you need to do is determine what you did or did not do to
make the existing lawn so bad. THan do the opposite. LAck of fertilizer?
lack of water? heavy traffic? Not enough light (not much you can do for that
one)?road salt? dogs?

"tenplay" wrote in message
...
Our large backyard has a large grassy area (approx. 110' X 70'), which
consists mostly of weeds and crabgrass. We want to upgrade it before we
sell the house in 3-4 years. Replacing it with a large lawn will take a
lot of work and expense. Is there a workable alternative that would be
attractive and inexpensive? A friend recommended planting groundcover,
but it's hard to envision such a large area of groundcover. We live in
Western Washington. Thanks for any suggestions/advice.

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...


The other thing you need to do is determine what you did or did not do to
make the existing lawn so bad. THan do the opposite. LAck of fertilizer?
lack of water? heavy traffic? Not enough light (not much you can do for
that one)?road salt? dogs?

Don't forget bad mowing practices.

"tenplay" wrote in message
...
Our large backyard has a large grassy area (approx. 110' X 70'), which
consists mostly of weeds and crabgrass. We want to upgrade it before we
sell the house in 3-4 years. Replacing it with a large lawn will take a
lot of work and expense. Is there a workable alternative that would be
attractive and inexpensive? A friend recommended planting groundcover,
but it's hard to envision such a large area of groundcover. We live in
Western Washington. Thanks for any suggestions/advice.

Nothing will be cheaper than putting in a new lawn. Take a look at you local
nursery or box store. A half flat of groundcover plants will be
surprisingly expensive. Many people have the idea that groundcover gardens
require no care. That isn't true, especially for the first few years where
there is space coverage.

I would recommend that you put down an application of lawn weed killer.
Keep the area well watered to encourage growth. In the fall, even-out any
high and low spots. Rent a slit seeder and overseed the lawn with a quality
seed and keep moist. In late fall put down a "winterizer" treatment. In
the spring, apply a turf builder with a pre-emergent herbicide. If the lawn
looks spotty, aerate the lawn and overseed again. If you continue to
control weeds and overseed, in a couple years the laws should look great
without completely starting over. If the new buyers are typical of what I
see in my neighborhood, they wouldn't appreciate a meticulously groomed lawn
anyway.

Jmagerl said:

snip

The other thing you need to do is determine what you did or did not do to
make the existing lawn so bad. THan do the opposite. LAck of fertilizer?
lack of water? heavy traffic? Not enough light (not much you can do for that
one)?road salt? dogs?

Big one you didn't mention: improper mowing (usually this means too
short and not often enough). One can water and fertilize properly, and
then undo it all by mowing improperly.

Oh, and keep those mowing blades sharp!


--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

Pat Kiewicz wrote:
Jmagerl said:

snip

The other thing you need to do is determine what you did or did not do to
make the existing lawn so bad. THan do the opposite. LAck of fertilizer?
lack of water? heavy traffic? Not enough light (not much you can do for that
one)?road salt? dogs?


Big one you didn't mention: improper mowing (usually this means too
short and not often enough). One can water and fertilize properly, and
then undo it all by mowing improperly.

Oh, and keep those mowing blades sharp!



I suppose the cause of the bad lawn is neglect. Other than once a week
mowing when needed and some weeding, nothing was done. Actually it
never was a lawn but more of just a large grassy area in the back of the
house bordering a wild bird sanctuary. Re mowing, we cut it with a
power mower 3-4" high. What else is there to mowing? Thanks for all
the advice.

Hi..we live in SW Washington...we are in process of getting rid of as
much lawn as possible by putting in mounded island beds....A few trees
(japanese maples) and some conifers will be the base then will fill in
with perrenials and annuals...you might think about the beds and then
use the ground cover as suits your taste...might want to think about an
evergreen groundcover so if house isn't sold before frost it would
still look good...for an inexpensive one I like Vinca Minor, as it
looks interesting even before it grows together...Or a Juniper carpet
type (I like the Bluish green one..but the variety doesn't come to
mind...something blue carpet...(maybe Norwegian Blue Carpet??) Or you
might just go to nurseries in your area and see what they are offering
at good buys this late in season...

Also some hard scape even if only inexpensive oblisks or freestanding
trellis would help fill in areas...Usually at the end of the season
like now you can also get inexpensive iron/wood benches...Fred Meyer
has a darling smaller size (kiddies?) for around $19 that I used to
anchor a smaller treed bed.

Anyway...just a thought...

tenplay said:

I suppose the cause of the bad lawn is neglect. Other than once a week
mowing when needed and some weeding, nothing was done. Actually it
never was a lawn but more of just a large grassy area in the back of the
house bordering a wild bird sanctuary. Re mowing, we cut it with a
power mower 3-4" high. What else is there to mowing?

What else is there to mowing? To minimize stress and wear:
Mow often enough to take off no more than 1/3 of the growth (and maybe
prefer a bit less than 1/3).

Alternating the mowing pattern.

Mow with sharp blades. Dull blades shred the grass rather than
cut it.

And also (from MSU extension service):

§ Avoid mowing during the heat of the day or when the turf is under
drought stress. Mowing when the turf is under stress will damage the turf –
you’ll likely see the mower tracks on the turf in the coming week and it will
look like you had Roundup on the tires. The turf will in almost all cases
recover from this damage but the look is certainly not what most folks are
aiming for. Mow during the morning or early evening to avoid this damage.

Then there's this (regarding water in low-maintenence situations), also
from MSU:

§ Mercy irrigation – if hot, dry conditions persist throughout the summer
and you’re one of the crowd that chooses not to irrigate and allow the turf to
enter dormancy, consider applying a very infrequent irrigation once a month.
Turfgrass can survive from five to eight weeks under dry conditions before
substantial death occurs. Irrigate monthly, applying between 0.5 and 1 inch
of water to ensure turf survival during these hot, dry conditions. Don’t expect
the turf to green up and resume growing – you’re just trying to ensure the
turf plant stays hydrated.

As for other care, *some* fertilizing (with slow-release or organic
fertilizers) would be good -- late summer (Labor Day) and fall (October,
with a 'winterizer' fertilizer).

(All my advice is for Northern, cool-season grasses.)

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)