Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
Last year I got the Schultz spray with the organic marigold insecticide in
it (trying to be organic) and someone on the list (animeaux) pointed out that the OTHER ingredient was still toxic. :-/ So, I do a little research and go buy Sulphur Powder thinking that sounds organic. I mixed a gallon with 4 Tbsp. as per the label and sprayed my rose bushes. Boy, all those yellow drops on the new red leaves are some kind of ugly. And the WARNING label on the sulphur is little better than that on a fungicide! Wear a mask, don't go in the garden for 24 hours, don't get on your skin - right, how do you NOT get it on your skin?!?!?! And just how do you dust the bottom of a leaf, anyway? Googleing for an hour now in this and other newsgroups (like rec.gardens.roses) I've seen this the most often: 1-2 Tbs Baking Soda 1 Tbs Vegetable Oil 1 Tsp to 1 Tbs Liquid Soap With kids and animals all over the yard, I am not going to apply a fungicide, systemic or otherwise. But the sulphur says keep kids and animals away, too. What do you use? Any help is greatly appreciated. -- John T. Jarrett http://logontexas.com --------------------------------------------------------------- Web Design - Program - Host - Maintain - Databases - E-Commerce $9.95 Nationwide Dial-Up ISP new customers welcome... --------------------------------------------------------------- |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
There is probably no really effective organic control for black spot. Hybrid
tea roses & their ilk require a lot of chemical controls. I use Rose and Flower granules for systemic insecticide, which avoids insecticide spraying, but you just have to spray for black spot. It is not that dangerous if you just keep the kids & the pets away while you are actually spraying. If you are too fearful, grow something else. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
There were no kids or cats out when I sprayed, but as if on cue, after my
post my big white cat woke up, looked like warmed-over crap, then puked really bright yellow sulphur colored stuff on my floor :/ It isn't just the roses, it affects my native Winged Elm Bonsai as well - will cover 100% of its leaves. Doesn't seem to hurt the tree particularly, but ruins the appearance of one of my biggest bonsais for the rest of the year. -- John T. Jarrett http://logontexas.com "Iris Cohen" wrote in message ... There is probably no really effective organic control for black spot. Hybrid tea roses & their ilk require a lot of chemical controls. I use Rose and Flower granules for systemic insecticide, which avoids insecticide spraying, but you just have to spray for black spot. It is not that dangerous if you just keep the kids & the pets away while you are actually spraying. If you are too fearful, grow something else. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
In article , "John T. Jarrett"
wrote: Last year I got the Schultz spray with the organic marigold insecticide in it (trying to be organic) and someone on the list (animeaux) pointed out that the OTHER ingredient was still toxic. :-/ So, I do a little research and go buy Sulphur Powder thinking that sounds organic. I mixed a gallon with 4 Tbsp. as per the label and sprayed my rose bushes. Boy, all those yellow drops on the new red leaves are some kind of ugly. And the WARNING label on the sulphur is little better than that on a fungicide! Wear a mask, don't go in the garden for 24 hours, don't get on your skin - right, how do you NOT get it on your skin?!?!?! And just how do you dust the bottom of a leaf, anyway? Googleing for an hour now in this and other newsgroups (like rec.gardens.roses) I've seen this the most often: 1-2 Tbs Baking Soda 1 Tbs Vegetable Oil 1 Tsp to 1 Tbs Liquid Soap With kids and animals all over the yard, I am not going to apply a fungicide, systemic or otherwise. But the sulphur says keep kids and animals away, too. What do you use? Any help is greatly appreciated. I suspect that where the fanciest most delicate roses are concerned, the only way to not have black spot is to grow something else instead. The usual organic remedy is a thorough almost weekly dousing with the formula you outline (in various concentrations, but typically in a quart spray bottle, one teaspoon baking soda, half a teaspoon of horticultural dormant oil or light canola oil, & three or four drops dishwashing detergent to help disperse the oil into the mixture -- really the soap isn't essential & the Cornell Univrsity studies were of baking soda with horitucultural oil only. The Cornell study showed that after four weekly dousings, both black spot & powdery mildews were brought 95% under control (it often eliminated black spot entirely, but never on the most susceptible varieties). The mildew was gone with two applications, but blackspot took recurring treatments to remain under control. The Cornell mix was a half-percent solution of baking soda & half percent horticultural oil (such as Sunspray), so not doesn't take much. Auburn University furthered these tests & found that in addition to the solution sprayed on roses, it was beneficial to start the season by spraying the ground area with horticultural oil then placing a st erile mulch on top of the oiled ground. This kept new spores from getting up into the roses, & also worked really well on ground-grown veggies such melons & cucumber, & on herbs. It needst be done regularly as only new leaves can be kept from the affliction; already black-spotted leaves there is nothing you can do about. Spraying has to be coordinated along with regular hand-plucking infected leaves & discarding all leaf-fall instantly. Additionally, just remove ALL leaves anywhere near ground-level to about 18" or so up the branches, or splashing from waterings or normal rainfall with lift spoors to the plant. Keeping growth airy rather than compact helps a bit. Unless you shift to the most fungus-resistant plants, this will be an ongoing chore, not something you can do for a while then finally be rid of the blackspot. But I suspect this is just as true with non-organic fungicide treatments, not the result of attempting to be organic. Besides the spottiness left by wettable lime-sulfer, it doesn't work at all in summer, & though moderately successful, baking soda & horticultural oil worked better in the control studies. Neem oil also had high ratings. I don't actually care for fancy roses but I inherited a big one & have been able to keep the spot out of it by plucking alone. I finally cleared out a place for a stepping-stone in front of this rose so I can stand back there amidst the growth for as long as it takes to pluck bad leaves, I keep the bottom clear of leaf matter. It's a hardy old thing though & this might not be sufficient for fancier ones nor as quickly done with many rather than one rose, & I would certainly go with the baking soda & horticultural oil if it was getting unmanageable (or perhaps swap off now & then first the baking soda mix, then just Neem oil, maybe now & then lime-sulfer, so that no one thing builds up in the soil & perhaps functions more in a "broad spectrum" manner to discourage funguses). One negative thing about baking soda is with over use, it can alkalinize soil, so an added annoyance could be having to lay down paper before spraying so as not to drip too much baking soda into the soil (though the percentage is very small & a single season's weekly applications wouldn't alkalinize soil, & could be regarded part of the potassium percentage wanted). -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/ |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
Iris Cohen wrote: There is probably no really effective organic control for black spot. Hybrid tea roses & their ilk require a lot of chemical controls. I use Rose and Flower granules for systemic insecticide, which avoids insecticide spraying, but you just have to spray for black spot. It is not that dangerous if you just keep the kids & the pets away while you are actually spraying. If you are too fearful, grow something else. Iris, This is such nonsense, I hardly know what to say! Chemicals are NOT required to have well grown and healthy roses and the advocation of any systemic rose product is just plain silly, if not downright dangerous. The active ingredient in most sytemic rose products is disulfoton, which is extremely toxic to mammals (and last I knew, you were included in that category!) through all avenues of exposure - inhalation, skin exposure or ingestion. There are a number of very effective organic, low toxicity controls for rose fungal problems including the Cornell University formula of baking soda, water and a few drops of a surfactant like dish soap or salad oil; sulfur; and Neem oil. Even plain old insecticidal soap can prevent the development of fungal problems but will not control them once they appear. Iris, you simply have to move into the 21st century - it is irresponsible and dangerous and does the newsgroup readers a huge disservice to continually tout the use of chemical pesticides when other means of remedy are available. pam - gardengal |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
Iris Cohen wrote: There is probably no really effective organic control for black spot. Hybrid tea roses & their ilk require a lot of chemical controls. I use Rose and Flower granules for systemic insecticide, which avoids insecticide spraying, but you just have to spray for black spot. It is not that dangerous if you just keep the kids & the pets away while you are actually spraying. If you are too fearful, grow something else. Iris, This is such nonsense, I hardly know what to say! Chemicals are NOT required to have well grown and healthy roses and the advocation of any systemic rose product is just plain silly, if not downright dangerous. The active ingredient in most sytemic rose products is disulfoton, which is extremely toxic to mammals (and last I knew, you were included in that category!) through all avenues of exposure - inhalation, skin exposure or ingestion. There are a number of very effective organic, low toxicity controls for rose fungal problems including the Cornell University formula of baking soda, water and a few drops of a surfactant like dish soap or salad oil; sulfur; and Neem oil. Even plain old insecticidal soap can prevent the development of fungal problems but will not control them once they appear. Iris, you simply have to move into the 21st century - it is irresponsible and dangerous and does the newsgroup readers a huge disservice to continually tout the use of chemical pesticides when other means of remedy are available. pam - gardengal |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
Iris Cohen wrote: There is probably no really effective organic control for black spot. Hybrid tea roses & their ilk require a lot of chemical controls. I use Rose and Flower granules for systemic insecticide, which avoids insecticide spraying, but you just have to spray for black spot. It is not that dangerous if you just keep the kids & the pets away while you are actually spraying. If you are too fearful, grow something else. Iris, This is such nonsense, I hardly know what to say! Chemicals are NOT required to have well grown and healthy roses and the advocation of any systemic rose product is just plain silly, if not downright dangerous. The active ingredient in most sytemic rose products is disulfoton, which is extremely toxic to mammals (and last I knew, you were included in that category!) through all avenues of exposure - inhalation, skin exposure or ingestion. There are a number of very effective organic, low toxicity controls for rose fungal problems including the Cornell University formula of baking soda, water and a few drops of a surfactant like dish soap or salad oil; sulfur; and Neem oil. Even plain old insecticidal soap can prevent the development of fungal problems but will not control them once they appear. Iris, you simply have to move into the 21st century - it is irresponsible and dangerous and does the newsgroup readers a huge disservice to continually tout the use of chemical pesticides when other means of remedy are available. pam - gardengal |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
On 17 Mar 2003 18:38:45 GMT, (Iris Cohen) wrote:
There is probably no really effective organic control for black spot. Hybrid tea roses & their ilk require a lot of chemical controls. Jeezus Iris, you mean YOU don't know how to control black spot organically! Or more likely are not interested in learning how to. BIRC has done a lot of work along those lines and any homemade highly bacterial compost tea WILL control black spot!!!! http://www.better-flora.com/rose-black-spot.htm http://www.hortnet.co.nz/publication...e/beresfd1.htm http://www.rose-black-spot.com/ "As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life." Rachel Carson |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:39:15 GMT, Pam wrote:
This is such nonsense, I hardly know what to say! Chemicals are NOT required to have well grown and healthy roses and the advocation of any systemic rose product is just plain silly, if not downright dangerous. The active ingredient in most sytemic rose products is disulfoton, which is extremely toxic to mammals (and last I knew, you were included in that category!) through all avenues of exposure - inhalation, skin exposure or ingestion. There are a number of very effective organic, low toxicity controls for rose fungal problems including the Cornell University formula of baking soda, water and a few drops of a surfactant like dish soap or salad oil; sulfur; and Neem oil. Even plain old insecticidal soap can prevent the development of fungal problems but will not control them once they appear. Iris, you simply have to move into the 21st century - it is irresponsible and dangerous and does the newsgroup readers a huge disservice to continually tout the use of chemical pesticides when other means of remedy are available. pam - gardengal You are so right, but don't hold your breath! V |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 01:27:52 GMT, Tom Jaszewski wrote:
Jeezus Iris, you mean YOU don't know how to control black spot organically! Or more likely are not interested in learning how to. BIRC has done a lot of work along those lines and any homemade highly bacterial compost tea WILL control black spot!!!! http://www.better-flora.com/rose-black-spot.htm http://www.hortnet.co.nz/publication...e/beresfd1.htm http://www.rose-black-spot.com/ Very good sites. I can look it up, but I was wondering if I make aerobic compost tea using compost comprised of both bacterial and fungal properties, how long can I let it stand without aeration before it becomes anaerobic? Victoria |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:26:31 GMT, animaux wrote:
how long can I let it stand without aeration before it becomes anaerobic? If the tea was produced by brewer taht kept the dissolved oxygen levels up throughout the brew, about 12-24 hours. Longer and better diversity if the tea is continued to be aerated. "As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life." Rachel Carson |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:54:40 GMT, Tom Jaszewski wrote:
If the tea was produced by brewer taht kept the dissolved oxygen levels up throughout the brew, about 12-24 hours. Longer and better diversity if the tea is continued to be aerated. All I was going to do was put an air stone and small aquarium pump into the water. Eventually, when the are more affordable I'll get a brewer, but for now I want to experiment with it. One other question: If I use bat guano fresh out of the bat, will that be too strong? Should I use finished compost to get the desired effect of disease control? v |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:44:33 GMT, animaux wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:54:40 GMT, Tom Jaszewski wrote: If the tea was produced by brewer taht kept the dissolved oxygen levels up throughout the brew, about 12-24 hours. Longer and better diversity if the tea is continued to be aerated. All I was going to do was put an air stone and small aquarium pump into the water. Eventually, when the are more affordable I'll get a brewer, but for now I want to experiment with it. One other question: If I use bat guano fresh out of the bat, will that be too strong? Should I use finished compost to get the desired effect of disease control? v Use a pump large enough to drive 4 stones in a 5 gallon bucket. This will take at least 36 hours to brew good tea. The other option is a dual port pump with hoops made of 1/4" porous irrigation tubing. One circle at the corner of the bucket and a smaller circle at the center. Do NOT use and kind of uncomposted materials. I recommend good vermicompost for more consistent batches. Email for more information on nutrients. "As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life." Rachel Carson |
Organic Black Spot Control - what do you use?
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 01:26:36 GMT, Tom Jaszewski wrote:
Use a pump large enough to drive 4 stones in a 5 gallon bucket. This will take at least 36 hours to brew good tea. The other option is a dual port pump with hoops made of 1/4" porous irrigation tubing. One circle at the corner of the bucket and a smaller circle at the center. Do NOT use and kind of uncomposted materials. I recommend good vermicompost for more consistent batches. Email for more information on nutrients. "As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life." Rachel Carson Thanks, that's what I will do. My pump will easily drive 4 stones and I have fully composted organic matter. I also have plenty of vermicompost. I am really looking forward to this gardening year as I can actually do it! Last year at this time I had fever all the time. V |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:04 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter