"James" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"James" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"presley" wrote in message
...

Many factories are run as sweat shops with wages held down because
government officials forbid unionization attempts.

"Forbid" is a mild word for it. Suggest "union" and it's likely you'll
find
yourself in jail by the end of the day.


The only way this situation would ever change (and I'm not
optimistic)
would be if the developed world insisted on fair labor standards and
wages
before it would do business with China. But most of us prefer to
hide
our
heads in the sand, because we're able to buy some sort of advertised
junk
for $10 cheaper if we don't rock the boat too much.

If prices on Chinese goods rose significantly due to wages becoming
more
like ours, there would be financial catastrophe here.

How come? It would mean less outsourcing to China and business would
start
looking elsewhere.

Hmm. Where? You don't simply up & move your t-shirt operation to another
country in a week.

I think it's handy to be able to discount what a lousy place China is in
terms of human rights, because it enables people to pretend everything's
fine. Then, they can get back to doing whatever it is they prefer to
thinking. Nose picking, watching Oprah, etc.


I'm sorry Doug. I just think your business acumen is lacking a bit, but I
really don't understand the hostility toward a country making progress in
many areas.

Progress in one area does not cure horrors in other areas, such as human
rights, working conditions and environmental problems, all of which the
Chinese government brushes off like these things were nobody else's
business. It's simply wrong to support a system like that. If you worked for
a company that treated its workers like trash, you'd be looking elsewhere
for work, and in the meantime, you'd be telling any who'd listen that they
shouldn't send business to the company.

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:45:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

[...]

I think it's handy to be able to discount what a lousy place China is in
terms of human rights, because it enables people to pretend everything's
fine. Then, they can get back to doing whatever it is they prefer to
thinking. Nose picking, watching Oprah, etc.

[...]

Hah! Well said!

What's REALLY interesting is how mainline American churches,
Presbyterian, Episcopalian, maybe others by now, vote to boycott
trading with Israel because of what they perceive as its human rights
violations [1]. One of their targets is the Caterpillar Corporation.

The Church of England, a state religion, also just jumped on the
"boycott Israel" bandwagon.

Not a peep out of these chuches China, the world's major human
rights violator, nor the 22 Arab countries, all dictatorships, all
repressive regimes that consistently violate human rights.

[1] Awful stuff! Keeping murders from infiltrating their borders
and blowing up innocent civilians! Tracking and arresting where
possible, killing where not possible, the instigators of the so-called
"suicide bombers", who hide behind civilians, including young
children. Poor naive Israel, maintaining in the face of daily
horrors, an open society where Israeli Arabs have the same civil
rights as the Jews; where newspapers, radio and TV can and do sharply
criticize the government; where Arab children, e.g. get kidney
transplants in the excellent Israeli hospitals in the same ratio as
Jews. The Israelis are just not as sophisticated as the Arab world
in terms of spinning and propaganda. They actually think that the
truth will prevail.

Sounds like what the U.S. used to be like before the Bushies
started suppressing dissent.

Persephone


--

The unexamined life is not worth living.

Socrates

Persephone wrote in message ...
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:45:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

[...]

I think it's handy to be able to discount what a lousy place China is in
terms of human rights, because it enables people to pretend
everything's
fine. Then, they can get back to doing whatever it is they prefer to
thinking. Nose picking, watching Oprah, etc.

[...]

Hah! Well said!

What's REALLY interesting is how mainline American churches,
Presbyterian, Episcopalian, maybe others by now, vote to boycott
trading with Israel because of what they perceive as its human rights
violations [1]. One of their targets is the Caterpillar Corporation.

The Church of England, a state religion, also just jumped on the
"boycott Israel" bandwagon.

Not a peep out of these chuches China, the world's major human
rights violator, nor the 22 Arab countries, all dictatorships, all
repressive regimes that consistently violate human rights.

[1] Awful stuff! Keeping murders from infiltrating their borders
and blowing up innocent civilians! Tracking and arresting where
possible, killing where not possible, the instigators of the so-called
"suicide bombers", who hide behind civilians, including young
children. Poor naive Israel, maintaining in the face of daily
horrors, an open society where Israeli Arabs have the same civil
rights as the Jews; where newspapers, radio and TV can and do sharply
criticize the government; where Arab children, e.g. get kidney
transplants in the excellent Israeli hospitals in the same ratio as
Jews. The Israelis are just not as sophisticated as the Arab world
in terms of spinning and propaganda. They actually think that the
truth will prevail.

Sounds like what the U.S. used to be like before the Bushies
started suppressing dissent.

Persephone


--

The unexamined life is not worth living.

Socrates

I find the discussion being completely off topic and very sophomoric. If you
feel it's your lot in life to point out the ills of the world with some well
worn phrases on the inhumanity of others, then you have issues that can't be
solved here.

"James" wrote in message
...

Persephone wrote in message ...
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:45:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

[...]

I think it's handy to be able to discount what a lousy place China is in
terms of human rights, because it enables people to pretend
everything's
fine. Then, they can get back to doing whatever it is they prefer to
thinking. Nose picking, watching Oprah, etc.

[...]

Hah! Well said!

What's REALLY interesting is how mainline American churches,
Presbyterian, Episcopalian, maybe others by now, vote to boycott
trading with Israel because of what they perceive as its human rights
violations [1]. One of their targets is the Caterpillar Corporation.

The Church of England, a state religion, also just jumped on the
"boycott Israel" bandwagon.

Not a peep out of these chuches China, the world's major human
rights violator, nor the 22 Arab countries, all dictatorships, all
repressive regimes that consistently violate human rights.

[1] Awful stuff! Keeping murders from infiltrating their borders
and blowing up innocent civilians! Tracking and arresting where
possible, killing where not possible, the instigators of the so-called
"suicide bombers", who hide behind civilians, including young
children. Poor naive Israel, maintaining in the face of daily
horrors, an open society where Israeli Arabs have the same civil
rights as the Jews; where newspapers, radio and TV can and do sharply
criticize the government; where Arab children, e.g. get kidney
transplants in the excellent Israeli hospitals in the same ratio as
Jews. The Israelis are just not as sophisticated as the Arab world
in terms of spinning and propaganda. They actually think that the
truth will prevail.

Sounds like what the U.S. used to be like before the Bushies
started suppressing dissent.

Persephone


--

The unexamined life is not worth living.

Socrates

I find the discussion being completely off topic and very sophomoric. If
you
feel it's your lot in life to point out the ills of the world with some
well
worn phrases on the inhumanity of others, then you have issues that can't
be
solved here.

James, I think you owe it to yourself and your children to have some grownup
newspapers delivered to the house at least once a week. You made a comment
earlier: "The NY Times and some of the other media love these "misery"
stories and present them much like they did from the ghetto misery stories
of 40 years
ago". The fact is that nasty things happen. You can't stick your head in the
sand and pretend they don't. More important, you can't pretend that your
dollars are not directly funding evil.

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:28:43 -0800, Persephone wrote:

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:45:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

[...]

I think it's handy to be able to discount what a lousy place China is in
terms of human rights, because it enables people to pretend everything's
fine. Then, they can get back to doing whatever it is they prefer to
thinking. Nose picking, watching Oprah, etc.

[...]

Hah! Well said!

What's REALLY interesting is how mainline American churches,
Presbyterian, Episcopalian, maybe others by now, vote to boycott
trading with Israel because of what they perceive as its human rights
violations [1]. One of their targets is the Caterpillar Corporation.

The Church of England, a state religion, also just jumped on the
"boycott Israel" bandwagon.

Not a peep out of these chuches China, the world's major human
rights violator, nor the 22 Arab countries, all dictatorships, all
repressive regimes that consistently violate human rights.

[1] Awful stuff! Keeping murders from infiltrating their borders
and blowing up innocent civilians! Tracking and arresting where
possible, killing where not possible, the instigators of the so-called
"suicide bombers", who hide behind civilians, including young
children. Poor naive Israel, maintaining in the face of daily
horrors, an open society where Israeli Arabs have the same civil
rights as the Jews; where newspapers, radio and TV can and do sharply
criticize the government; where Arab children, e.g. get kidney
transplants in the excellent Israeli hospitals in the same ratio as
Jews. The Israelis are just not as sophisticated as the Arab world
in terms of spinning and propaganda. They actually think that the
truth will prevail.

Sounds like what the U.S. used to be like before the Bushies
started suppressing dissent.

Persephone
Are you feeling suppressed, Persephone?

Swyck