OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
Why children be forced to go to school. At one time children would be
out working at 7, or even younger. Why not? |
I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
They don't. It's called home schooling.
|
I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
Child labor laws?
"Peter Gregson" wrote in message om... Why children be forced to go to school. At one time children would be out working at 7, or even younger. Why not? |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
Children have to be forced to go to school because they can not make
responsible decisions on their own. I started working when I was 8 years old, but the work had to be done before school and after school. Then I went on to college, earned a masters degree, worked for several years, reached critical mass, and retired at a (very) early age. Now I have lots of time I enjoy working in the gardens. Find out why children do not want to go to school--there may be a problem that can be resolved--the sooner the better. On 26 Mar 2003 12:46:22 -0800, (Peter Gregson) wrote: Why children be forced to go to school. At one time children would be out working at 7, or even younger. Why not? |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:33:15 GMT, Phisherman wrote:
Children have to be forced to go to school because they can not make responsible decisions on their own. I started working when I was 8 years old, but the work had to be done before school and after school. Then I went on to college, earned a masters degree, worked for several years, reached critical mass, and retired at a (very) early age. Now I have lots of time I enjoy working in the gardens. Find out why children do not want to go to school--there may be a problem that can be resolved--the sooner the better. You put your finger right on it! School properly taught would be a delight to children, not a chore. But of course we don't even have pennies to spend on our children's schools; gotta spent those billions to kill other people's children. On 26 Mar 2003 12:46:22 -0800, (Peter Gregson) wrote: Why children be forced to go to school. At one time children would be out working at 7, or even younger. Why not? -- Polar |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
|
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
Why children be forced to go to school. At one time children would be
out working at 7, or even younger. Why not? Are you serious? Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
School properly taught would be a delight to children, not a chore. But of course we don't even have pennies to spend on our children's schools; gotta spent those billions to kill other people's children. Hah! We spend more on education than we ever have--the problem is that the NEA is a corrupt organization more concerned with political correctness and protection of incompetant teachers than with meeting the ostensible end of a public education system. Things would improve if we spent more time on rigorous academic exercise and less on failed social engineering (this is why so many foreign kids who have far less funding put into their educational systems come over here and run circles around so many of our students). -- Bugger off, Chirac. |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
Bwahhaahhhaaaa. There were 6 kids who scored 100% on the SAT exams. 2 were from
Wisconsin, both attend public schools staffed by teachers who are kept above the poverty level by unions. One of the students attends an inner city school, one a suburban school. My husband is asst. chess coach at Bay View High School, also PUBLIC city school, just took a team of 4 to the national chess championships in Columbus, Ohio. They competed against religious and private schools from all over the country and they swept their division, one of them winning the national championship and the 4 winning the team championship. The principle has given my husband the funds to develop a biotechnology learning center and lab at the high school. With a PhD he chooses to teach at an inner city school for the grand (union negotiated) sum of 35K per year. At least in Wisconsin public school teachers must have certification. Not so in private or parochial schools and they dont even check to see if home schooling parents can read. Did it ever occur to you that the reason that the US leads the world in science and industry has something to do with our public school system? In the beginning of the last century Germany had the highest "book learning" and "rigorous academic system" standards, they were and still are held up as the "perfect" kind of education system ... and yet, the people of Germany couldnt think their way out of a paper bag. They either were incapable of critical thinking or so brain washed into the myth of their own superiority that they chose to follow their leader to commit heinous crimes against humanity. If ever there was an argument against that kind of learning system, Germany is it. Our country is not ethnically pure, not homogeneous and it takes a lot of effort to bring all the different kids together, to foster understanding, to overcome their myth ridden and sometimes racist upbringing so they can work together as adults and continue working on and building a stronger America. We dont hide our handicapped, we dont hide our mentally retarded, hell we dont even shut up our mentally ill kids or adults. We arent perfect by a long shot, but diversity has both ying and yang ... it is difficult to bring all those differences together in schools or in the work place, but this countrys source of its strength, its creativity, its energy from its diversity! Ingrid (Anonymo421) wrote: Hah! We spend more on education than we ever have--the problem is that the NEA is a corrupt organization more concerned with political correctness and protection of incompetant teachers than with meeting the ostensible end of a public education system. Things would improve if we spent more time on rigorous academic exercise and less on failed social engineering (this is why so many foreign kids who have far less funding put into their educational systems come over here and run circles around so many of our students). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
"Polar" wrote in message
... Millions of them are still out working at 7 or even younger. Overseas. Making the goods that you buy so cheaply. These children are doing the jobs that formerly paid good money to U.S. workers. Only these children work 10-hour days for terrible pay, without OSHA-type protection; completely at the mercy of the exploiters -- sorry, employers -- many of which are U.S. corporations. That's alright, because now US corporations have figured out how to outsource call centers (like technical support and customer support) to countries like the Philapines and India. Consider nations like both China and India annually graduate more electrical engineers then all of the graduating engineers, of all kinds, in America. Draftsmen and architects are outsourced to the Philapines. Much of the billing and accounting is done abroad too. Thanks to advances in global communication, it's cheaper to run billing abroad, and send the bill printing and envelope stuffing machines located domestically. The next time you call the customer service department for a large company, ask them where they are located. If they say "out east", like they're instructed to, get them to nail down which country or state. Sameer |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:45:23 GMT, "Snooze"
wrote: "Polar" wrote in message .. . Millions of them are still out working at 7 or even younger. Overseas. Making the goods that you buy so cheaply. These children are doing the jobs that formerly paid good money to U.S. workers. Only these children work 10-hour days for terrible pay, without OSHA-type protection; completely at the mercy of the exploiters -- sorry, employers -- many of which are U.S. corporations. That's alright, because now US corporations have figured out how to outsource call centers (like technical support and customer support) to countries like the Phillipines and India. You got that right! I bought my computer from Dell because they had the best consumer support reputation. Over time, that has eroded. Now, when you call Support, you're likely to get techs in India. They may be equally competent (or incompetent!) as U.S. techs, but they are hard to understand. They are so used to people asking "what?" that they spell out words not understood. Apparently it is cheaper for Dell to lease lines to India and pay for a 3-hour call (that's how long it took me once, and problem was not solved), rather than pay U.S. techs. Weird! Even if one asks for a 2nd level tech, Support is not what it was. I may not buy another Dell. Consider nations like both China and India annually graduate more electrical engineers then all of the graduating engineers, of all kinds, in America. Draftsmen and architects are outsourced to the Philapines. Much of the billing and accounting is done abroad too. Thanks to advances in global communication, it's cheaper to run billing abroad, and send the bill printing and envelope stuffing machines located domestically. They used to fly accounting paperwork to Ireland, where they employed bright, well-educated people for a pittance, and then fly it back next day. This may have been superseded by electronic outsourcing. The next time you call the customer service department for a large company, ask them where they are located. If they say "out east", like they're instructed to, get them to nail down which country or state. Yeah, and then? You won't get any better service. I am SO sick and tired of punching buttons at the command of a robot! It's almost a shock when you get a human being. Don't the companies know how they tick off customers? Or don't they care. (Don't answer that question! g). -- Polar |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
|
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
"Polar" wrote in message
... On 27 Mar 2003 05:04:50 GMT, (Anonymo421) wrote: School properly taught would be a delight to children, not a chore. But of course we don't even have pennies to spend on our children's schools; gotta spent those billions to kill other people's children. Hah! We spend more on education than we ever have--the problem is that the NEA is a corrupt organization more concerned with political correctness and protection of incompetant teachers than with meeting the ostensible end of a public education system. Things would improve if we spent more time on rigorous academic exercise and less on failed social engineering (this is why so many foreign kids who have far less funding put into their educational systems come over here and run circles around so many of our students). Part of what you said is true, though I don't necessarily buy into your blanket condemnation of teachers' unions. You want to go back to the days when teachers could be fired if they refused to have sex with the principal, or if their religion or politics didn't meet certain criteria? Unions arose to serve a need. You partially answered the reason for unions, but it was mainly a matter of economics. At one time it was almost impossible for a married man with children to survive on a teacher's salary. I had a great biology teacher who worked a second job as a bar tender to make ends meet. Most of my teachers used to be single women or women whose husbands had a job and lived in the town where they taught. BTW, most new teachers today last three years, and then go on to more lucrative and less stressful jobs. Another fact that is not often considered is that teacher salaries are paid out of taxes, and the public has been stingy. Why would the best and brightest of college students consider education as a career when salaries are so dismal? It's interesting how the politicos beat up schools and teachers before every election. They promise to improve schools through testing and promise students will not pass unless they pass these tests. If you are a teacher and liked teaching, you're forced to teach for the test. That reminds me of the German situation..... The "social engineering" accusation is accurate, however. Pushing kids through school via "social promotion" to avoid wounding their tender egos has resulted in a literacy/numeracy *disaster*! This "social engineering" has more to do with parents than teachers. Parents demanded the right to say whether Johnny passed or failed, and school boards and officials gave parents the final say. It was more parent egos than kid egos. Guess whose kid is too intelligent to fail! However, the greatest danger threatening our educational system at present is the Administrations' drive to replace secular public education with religious schools, under guise of the "voucher" program -- a scam of unparalleled viciousness and danger that has roots going back before even the first Bush administration. I couldn't agree more with you on that one. The voucher plan expounded by the Bush administration is nothing more than welfare for the wealthy. If you want to send your child to a private/religious school - fine! I don't want to pay for it. I am willing to pay for public education. We need to sleep with our eyes open, and lean on the cowardly, corrupt Congress, lest the Bill of Rights be trashed --prime objective of our theocrat-in-chief, Attorney General, the Ayatollah Ashcroft. -- Polar The religious agenda of the Bush administration is the scariest part. The people of this country didn't realize how good we had it until 9/11 began chipping away at civil rights with freedom of speech a target. My greatest fear is that Bush will have the opportunity to load the Supreme Court with Ashcroft types. John |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
?
Are you serious? Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) Oh yes. Look at lot of kids today. For all the money that has been spent on aducating them they know ****. If would be far better for them to learn about the real world and get them working. Some people say every child deserves a decent start in life and a good education. TO which I say crap! |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
|
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
The principle has given my husband the funds to develop a biotechnology
learning Solo -- Great story and all, but it's "principal" (although in PRINCIPLE you are on the right track). ;) James |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:54:36 -0600, "B & J"
wrote: "Polar" wrote in message .. . On 27 Mar 2003 05:04:50 GMT, (Anonymo421) wrote: School properly taught would be a delight to children, not a chore. But of course we don't even have pennies to spend on our children's schools; gotta spent those billions to kill other people's children. Hah! We spend more on education than we ever have--the problem is that the NEA is a corrupt organization more concerned with political correctness and protection of incompetant teachers than with meeting the ostensible end of a public education system. Things would improve if we spent more time on rigorous academic exercise and less on failed social engineering (this is why so many foreign kids who have far less funding put into their educational systems come over here and run circles around so many of our students). Part of what you said is true, though I don't necessarily buy into your blanket condemnation of teachers' unions. You want to go back to the days when teachers could be fired if they refused to have sex with the principal, or if their religion or politics didn't meet certain criteria? Unions arose to serve a need. You partially answered the reason for unions, but it was mainly a matter of economics. At one time it was almost impossible for a married man with children to survive on a teacher's salary. I had a great biology teacher who worked a second job as a bar tender to make ends meet. Most of my teachers used to be single women or women whose husbands had a job and lived in the town where they taught. BTW, most new teachers today last three years, and then go on to more lucrative and less stressful jobs. Another fact that is not often considered is that teacher salaries are paid out of taxes, and the public has been stingy. Why would the best and brightest of college students consider education as a career when salaries are so dismal? It's interesting how the politicos beat up schools and teachers before every election. They promise to improve schools through testing and promise students will not pass unless they pass these tests. If you are a teacher and liked teaching, you're forced to teach for the test. That reminds me of the German situation..... The "social engineering" accusation is accurate, however. Pushing kids through school via "social promotion" to avoid wounding their tender egos has resulted in a literacy/numeracy *disaster*! This "social engineering" has more to do with parents than teachers. Parents demanded the right to say whether Johnny passed or failed, and school boards and officials gave parents the final say. It was more parent egos than kid egos. Guess whose kid is too intelligent to fail! However, the greatest danger threatening our educational system at present is the Administrations' drive to replace secular public education with religious schools, under guise of the "voucher" program -- a scam of unparalleled viciousness and danger that has roots going back before even the first Bush administration. I couldn't agree more with you on that one. The voucher plan expounded by the Bush administration is nothing more than welfare for the wealthy. If you want to send your child to a private/religious school - fine! I don't want to pay for it. I am willing to pay for public education. We need to sleep with our eyes open, and lean on the cowardly, corrupt Congress, lest the Bill of Rights be trashed --prime objective of our theocrat-in-chief, Attorney General, the Ayatollah Ashcroft. -- Polar The religious agenda of the Bush administration is the scariest part. The people of this country didn't realize how good we had it until 9/11 began chipping away at civil rights with freedom of speech a target. My greatest fear is that Bush will have the opportunity to load the Supreme Court with Ashcroft types. Yeah (weary sigh) I remember beating on the Supreme Court nomination drum during the last presidential campaign, but to my sorrow, most voters just do not connect the president with his power to nominate Justices who sit for a lifetime, and influence the lives of us, our children, and our grandchildren. Right now, we need to sleep with our eyes open, lest Roe v Wade be overturned. Back to the coat hanger!!! Congress just passed a ban on late term abortions, no matter what the danger to the mother; no matter if the poor deformed fetus has no chance of survival. The radical religious Right waited 12 years to bring this up again; this time they have a bunch of sympathetic theocrats in their corner. -- Polar |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
Oh yes. Look at lot of kids today. For all the money that has been
spent on aducating them they know ****. If would be far better for them to learn about the real world and get them working. Some people say every child deserves a decent start in life and a good education. TO which I say crap! Come on Pete -- you're just being cynical. The vast majority of children, even in today's society, benefit greatly from school. They come out literate and capable of functioning at levels that even 50 years ago were reserved for a small percentage of the population. Everyone needs SOME measure of formal education -- be it via a public/private school or home schooling that is overseen by authorities. This is necessary to function at the most mundane levels in our society. Remember -- we're a society based largely on technology, not agriculture. Perhaps a better angle to consider is who should be educated for how long and in what manner. Many people believe that education is a right not a privilege -- this likely stems from a few generations back (and prior) when literacy and education WERE for only the privileged. Unfortunately, this attitude is so pervasive that is even applied to post secondary education, which IMHO is insane. Another angle to consider is discipline -- children are no longer raised at home in the way they were in the 50's and prior. It is my experience that most families lack a parent figure for a large part of the waking hours. This is typically due to parents working, single parent homes, etc.. Between parents to young to be parents, and parents too busy to be parents... well, I think you can see where this argument is going. That lack of home discipline & involvement makes public education difficult for teaching professionals. And that's another important factor to consider -- teaching professionals. I've only been out of secondary school for about 16 years but many of my teachers bordered on incompetent. Prime example -- my senior year of high school was spent with an English instructor who sat at the head of the classroom spitting phlegm into a cup and telling us how she was a member of MENSA. It is increasingly difficult to make the choice of joining the educational system today. Low pay, little respect, not much room for career advancement, unruly children, long hours...gee, sounds like a great job to me! Under these conditions we get one of two types -- truly devoted, wonderful teachers and incompetents. IMHO, the system is not very good at weeding out incompetents for a variety of reasons. To make an already long post a little less verbose, the point I'm trying to make here is that it's much more than "we're wasting our money on these punks". It's important to see this situation for what is -- a large, consuming problem brought about by a variety of concomitant issues. We keep trying because to not do so would be to take the plunge into societal regression. James |
OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!
"Iris Cohen" wrote in message ... Why children be forced to go to school. At one time children would be out working at 7, or even younger. Why not? Are you serious? Of course an OT remark like that is serious as a heart attack Iris! And I couldn't agree more, I went through several dozen children, all under the age of 8 in just a very few years. If the kid couldn't hold down a job and bring home a paycheck I just sold it back and got another one. That's why it's so important to keep the reciepts from those black market child brokers, otherwise you'd never get your money back!! Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
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