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Old 26-03-2003, 08:56 PM
Peter Gregson
 
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Default OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

Why children be forced to go to school. At one time children would be
out working at 7, or even younger.
Why not?

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Old 26-03-2003, 09:08 PM
K, T, E & N
 
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Default I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

They don't. It's called home schooling.


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Old 26-03-2003, 09:44 PM
news.verizon.net
 
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Default I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

Child labor laws?
"Peter Gregson" wrote in message
om...
Why children be forced to go to school. At one time children would be
out working at 7, or even younger.
Why not?



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Old 26-03-2003, 09:56 PM
Phisherman
 
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Default OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

Children have to be forced to go to school because they can not make
responsible decisions on their own. I started working when I was 8
years old, but the work had to be done before school and after school.
Then I went on to college, earned a masters degree, worked for several
years, reached critical mass, and retired at a (very) early age. Now
I have lots of time I enjoy working in the gardens. Find out why
children do not want to go to school--there may be a problem that can
be resolved--the sooner the better.

On 26 Mar 2003 12:46:22 -0800, (Peter Gregson)
wrote:

Why children be forced to go to school. At one time children would be
out working at 7, or even younger.
Why not?


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Old 26-03-2003, 10:20 PM
Polar
 
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Default OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:33:15 GMT, Phisherman wrote:

Children have to be forced to go to school because they can not make
responsible decisions on their own. I started working when I was 8
years old, but the work had to be done before school and after school.
Then I went on to college, earned a masters degree, worked for several
years, reached critical mass, and retired at a (very) early age. Now
I have lots of time I enjoy working in the gardens. Find out why
children do not want to go to school--there may be a problem that can
be resolved--the sooner the better.


You put your finger right on it!

School properly taught would be a delight to children, not a chore.

But of course we don't even have pennies to spend on our children's
schools; gotta spent those billions to kill other people's children.



On 26 Mar 2003 12:46:22 -0800, (Peter Gregson)
wrote:

Why children be forced to go to school. At one time children would be
out working at 7, or even younger.
Why not?


--
Polar
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Old 27-03-2003, 03:08 AM
Iris Cohen
 
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Default OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

Why children be forced to go to school. At one time children would be
out working at 7, or even younger.
Why not?


Are you serious?
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)
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Old 27-03-2003, 05:08 AM
Anonymo421
 
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Default OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!


School properly taught would be a delight to children, not a chore.

But of course we don't even have pennies to spend on our children's
schools; gotta spent those billions to kill other people's children.


Hah! We spend more on education than we ever have--the problem is that the NEA
is a corrupt organization more concerned with political correctness and
protection of incompetant teachers than with meeting the ostensible end of a
public education system. Things would improve if we spent more time on
rigorous academic exercise and less on failed social engineering (this is why
so many foreign kids who have far less funding put into their educational
systems come over here and run circles around so many of our students).

--
Bugger off, Chirac.
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Old 27-03-2003, 04:20 PM
[email protected]
 
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Default OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

Bwahhaahhhaaaa. There were 6 kids who scored 100% on the SAT exams. 2 were from
Wisconsin, both attend public schools staffed by teachers who are kept above the
poverty level by unions. One of the students attends an inner city school, one a
suburban school.
My husband is asst. chess coach at Bay View High School, also PUBLIC city school,
just took a team of 4 to the national chess championships in Columbus, Ohio. They
competed against religious and private schools from all over the country and they
swept their division, one of them winning the national championship and the 4 winning
the team championship.
The principle has given my husband the funds to develop a biotechnology learning
center and lab at the high school. With a PhD he chooses to teach at an inner city
school for the grand (union negotiated) sum of 35K per year.
At least in Wisconsin public school teachers must have certification. Not so in
private or parochial schools and they dont even check to see if home schooling
parents can read.
Did it ever occur to you that the reason that the US leads the world in science and
industry has something to do with our public school system? In the beginning of the
last century Germany had the highest "book learning" and "rigorous academic system"
standards, they were and still are held up as the "perfect" kind of education system
... and yet, the people of Germany couldnt think their way out of a paper bag. They
either were incapable of critical thinking or so brain washed into the myth of their
own superiority that they chose to follow their leader to commit heinous crimes
against humanity. If ever there was an argument against that kind of learning
system, Germany is it.
Our country is not ethnically pure, not homogeneous and it takes a lot of effort to
bring all the different kids together, to foster understanding, to overcome their
myth ridden and sometimes racist upbringing so they can work together as adults and
continue working on and building a stronger America. We dont hide our handicapped,
we dont hide our mentally retarded, hell we dont even shut up our mentally ill kids
or adults. We arent perfect by a long shot, but diversity has both ying and yang ...
it is difficult to bring all those differences together in schools or in the work
place, but this countrys source of its strength, its creativity, its energy from its
diversity! Ingrid

(Anonymo421) wrote:
Hah! We spend more on education than we ever have--the problem is that the NEA
is a corrupt organization more concerned with political correctness and
protection of incompetant teachers than with meeting the ostensible end of a
public education system. Things would improve if we spent more time on
rigorous academic exercise and less on failed social engineering (this is why
so many foreign kids who have far less funding put into their educational
systems come over here and run circles around so many of our students).




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Old 27-03-2003, 06:56 PM
Snooze
 
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Default OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

"Polar" wrote in message
...
Millions of them are still out working at 7 or even younger. Overseas.
Making the goods that you buy so cheaply.

These children are doing the jobs that formerly paid good money to
U.S. workers. Only these children work 10-hour days for terrible pay,
without OSHA-type protection; completely at the mercy of the
exploiters -- sorry, employers -- many of which are U.S. corporations.



That's alright, because now US corporations have figured out how to
outsource call centers (like technical support and customer support) to
countries like the Philapines and India. Consider nations like both China
and India annually graduate more electrical engineers then all of the
graduating engineers, of all kinds, in America.

Draftsmen and architects are outsourced to the Philapines. Much of the
billing and accounting is done abroad too. Thanks to advances in global
communication, it's cheaper to run billing abroad, and send the bill
printing and envelope stuffing machines located domestically.

The next time you call the customer service department for a large company,
ask them where they are located. If they say "out east", like they're
instructed to, get them to nail down which country or state.

Sameer


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Old 27-03-2003, 07:32 PM
Polar
 
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Default OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:45:23 GMT, "Snooze"
wrote:

"Polar" wrote in message
.. .
Millions of them are still out working at 7 or even younger. Overseas.
Making the goods that you buy so cheaply.

These children are doing the jobs that formerly paid good money to
U.S. workers. Only these children work 10-hour days for terrible pay,
without OSHA-type protection; completely at the mercy of the
exploiters -- sorry, employers -- many of which are U.S. corporations.



That's alright, because now US corporations have figured out how to
outsource call centers (like technical support and customer support) to
countries like the Phillipines and India.


You got that right! I bought my computer from Dell because they had
the best consumer support reputation. Over time, that has eroded.
Now, when you call Support, you're likely to get techs in India.
They may be equally competent (or incompetent!) as U.S. techs,
but they are hard to understand. They are so used to people asking
"what?" that they spell out words not understood.

Apparently it is cheaper for Dell to lease lines to India and pay for
a 3-hour call (that's how long it took me once, and problem was not
solved), rather than pay U.S. techs. Weird!

Even if one asks for a 2nd level tech, Support is not what it was.
I may not buy another Dell.


Consider nations like both China
and India annually graduate more electrical engineers then all of the
graduating engineers, of all kinds, in America.

Draftsmen and architects are outsourced to the Philapines. Much of the
billing and accounting is done abroad too. Thanks to advances in global
communication, it's cheaper to run billing abroad, and send the bill
printing and envelope stuffing machines located domestically.


They used to fly accounting paperwork to Ireland, where they employed
bright, well-educated people for a pittance, and then fly it back next
day.

This may have been superseded by electronic outsourcing.

The next time you call the customer service department for a large company,
ask them where they are located. If they say "out east", like they're
instructed to, get them to nail down which country or state.


Yeah, and then? You won't get any better service.

I am SO sick and tired of punching buttons at the command of a robot!
It's almost a shock when you get a human being. Don't the companies
know how they tick off customers? Or don't they care.
(Don't answer that question! g).


--
Polar
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Old 27-03-2003, 07:44 PM
Polar
 
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Default OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

On 27 Mar 2003 05:04:50 GMT, (Anonymo421) wrote:


School properly taught would be a delight to children, not a chore.

But of course we don't even have pennies to spend on our children's
schools; gotta spent those billions to kill other people's children.


Hah! We spend more on education than we ever have--the problem is that the NEA
is a corrupt organization more concerned with political correctness and
protection of incompetant teachers than with meeting the ostensible end of a
public education system. Things would improve if we spent more time on
rigorous academic exercise and less on failed social engineering (this is why
so many foreign kids who have far less funding put into their educational
systems come over here and run circles around so many of our students).


Part of what you said is true, though I don't necessarily buy into
your blanket condemnation of teachers' unions. You want to go back to
the days when teachers could be fired if they refused to have sex with
the principal, or if their religion or politics didn't meet certain
criteria? Unions arose to serve a need. Alas, like all human
endeavours, some can fall victim to warped objectives. The answer is
not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The "social engineering" accusation is accurate, however. Pushing
kids through school via "social promotion" to avoid wounding their
tender egos has resulted in a literacy/numeracy *disaster*!

However, the greatest danger threatening our educational system at
present is the Administrations' drive to replace secular public
education with religious schools, under guise of the "voucher" program
-- a scam of unparalleled viciousness and danger that has roots going
back before even the first Bush administration.

We need to sleep with our eyes open, and lean on the cowardly, corrupt
Congress, lest the Bill of Rights be trashed --prime objective of our
theocrat-in-chief, Attorney General, the Ayatollah Ashcroft.




--
Polar
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Old 28-03-2003, 04:56 AM
B & J
 
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Default OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

"Polar" wrote in message
...
On 27 Mar 2003 05:04:50 GMT, (Anonymo421) wrote:


School properly taught would be a delight to children, not a chore.

But of course we don't even have pennies to spend on our children's
schools; gotta spent those billions to kill other people's children.


Hah! We spend more on education than we ever have--the problem is that

the NEA
is a corrupt organization more concerned with political correctness and
protection of incompetant teachers than with meeting the ostensible end

of a
public education system. Things would improve if we spent more time on
rigorous academic exercise and less on failed social engineering (this is

why
so many foreign kids who have far less funding put into their educational
systems come over here and run circles around so many of our students).


Part of what you said is true, though I don't necessarily buy into
your blanket condemnation of teachers' unions. You want to go back to
the days when teachers could be fired if they refused to have sex with
the principal, or if their religion or politics didn't meet certain
criteria? Unions arose to serve a need.


You partially answered the reason for unions, but it was mainly a matter of
economics. At one time it was almost impossible for a married man with
children to survive on a teacher's salary. I had a great biology teacher who
worked a second job as a bar tender to make ends meet. Most of my teachers
used to be single women or women whose husbands had a job and lived in the
town where they taught. BTW, most new teachers today last three years, and
then go on to more lucrative and less stressful jobs. Another fact that is
not often considered is that teacher salaries are paid out of taxes, and the
public has been stingy. Why would the best and brightest of college students
consider education as a career when salaries are so dismal? It's interesting
how the politicos beat up schools and teachers before every election. They
promise to improve schools through testing and promise students will not
pass unless they pass these tests. If you are a teacher and liked teaching,
you're forced to teach for the test. That reminds me of the German
situation.....

The "social engineering" accusation is accurate, however. Pushing
kids through school via "social promotion" to avoid wounding their
tender egos has resulted in a literacy/numeracy *disaster*!


This "social engineering" has more to do with parents than teachers. Parents
demanded the right to say whether Johnny passed or failed, and school boards
and officials gave parents the final say. It was more parent egos than kid
egos. Guess whose kid is too intelligent to fail!

However, the greatest danger threatening our educational system at
present is the Administrations' drive to replace secular public
education with religious schools, under guise of the "voucher" program
-- a scam of unparalleled viciousness and danger that has roots going
back before even the first Bush administration.


I couldn't agree more with you on that one. The voucher plan expounded by
the Bush administration is nothing more than welfare for the wealthy. If you
want to send your child to a private/religious school - fine! I don't want
to pay for it. I am willing to pay for public education.

We need to sleep with our eyes open, and lean on the cowardly, corrupt
Congress, lest the Bill of Rights be trashed --prime objective of our
theocrat-in-chief, Attorney General, the Ayatollah Ashcroft.
--
Polar


The religious agenda of the Bush administration is the scariest part. The
people of this country didn't realize how good we had it until 9/11 began
chipping away at civil rights with freedom of speech a target. My greatest
fear is that Bush will have the opportunity to load the Supreme Court with
Ashcroft types.

John


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Old 28-03-2003, 08:56 AM
Peter Gregson
 
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Default OFF: I don't see why children should have to go to school if they don't want to!

?

Are you serious?
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)



Oh yes. Look at lot of kids today. For all the money that has been
spent on aducating them they know ****. If would be far better for
them to learn about the real world and get them working.
Some people say every child deserves a decent start in life and a good
education.
TO which I say crap!


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