How to lose customers - vent
 

it is well known that seed packets to retail people dont have the same quality
control cause they know people wont bring back poorly germinating seeds. but those
little packets of expensive seeds add up to millions of dollars for companies when
last years seeds etc are being fraudulently sold. it is just a big rip off. seed
companies would never try to stiff their wholesale customers this way. imagine a
farmer going out to seed 40 acres and the germination rate was what we often see.
They would have a law suit on their hands. not all seed companies do this. and
gotta check the date on the package minimum. but you got a pack of seeds that are
duds, I would call the company and bitch like hell if it was this years seeds. if it
was last years seeds it is entirely correct to bitch at the garden center for putting
out last years seeds to try to make a buck fraudulently. Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

How to lose customers - vent
 

On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:34:38 -0700, Polar
wrote:


I doubt if it's even that much!

Seed packets must be a major profit source. Anybody on the inside of
the nursery business that has the real skinny on this?


We operated on a 60% gross profit. Meaning a $2.00 packet of seeds
cost me $1.20

How to lose customers - vent
 

On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:38:48 GMT, wrote:

it is well known that seed packets to retail people dont have the same quality
control cause they know people wont bring back poorly germinating seeds. but those
little packets of expensive seeds add up to millions of dollars for companies when
last years seeds etc are being fraudulently sold. it is just a big rip off. seed
companies would never try to stiff their wholesale customers this way. imagine a
farmer going out to seed 40 acres and the germination rate was what we often see.
They would have a law suit on their hands. not all seed companies do this. and
gotta check the date on the package minimum. but you got a pack of seeds that are
duds, I would call the company and bitch like hell if it was this years seeds. if it
was last years seeds it is entirely correct to bitch at the garden center for putting
out last years seeds to try to make a buck fraudulently. Ingrid

The jobbers have vendor reps that maintain the racks. The outdated
seeds are RTV'd and credited to fresh stock.

How to lose customers - vent
 

On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:29:14 -0700, Polar wrote:

They were a special kind of cucumber. Sorry, I left the packet on the
counter when I departed in low dudgeon. I chose very carefully,
wanting something a little "different" from the Usual Suspects that I
sow each year.

I sowed them in those compartmented plastic gizmos -- surely they have
a name? -- in my regular homemade mix, composed of my very own deep,
dark, delicious compost and a soupcon of worm castings. They were in
the same "holding tank" as the bok choy (which did beautifully).
Watered from below to seep up gradually and not drown the seeds.
Covered with black plastic at first to trap heat. Uncovered after bok
choy germinated.

This may have caused the problem. On certain seeds I use compost, certain seeds
I do not. Compost is loaded with all types of microbes and some are not good
for or hospitable to some seeds. The seeds may have rotted before they had the
chance to germinate. I think you should bite the bullet and get more seeds or
write to the company and ask them what the best way to germinate the seeds would
be. I've always grown cukes in hills, sown directly in the ground. I found
they didn't like being transplanted. Others may have differing experience.

The bok choy may not have been susceptible to the same problems the cukes were,
thus the easy germination.

Try again. Don't give up so easy.

How to lose customers - vent
 

In article ,
wrote:
it is well known that seed packets to retail people dont have the same
qualitycontrol cause they know people wont bring back poorly germinating
seeds. but those little packets of expensive seeds add up to millions
of dollars for companies whenlast years seeds etc are being fraudulently
sold.

I'd really like to see the numbers/documentation on that. If it's that well
known, surely you can back it up with something other than specious
accusations.

it is just a big rip off. seed companies would never try to stiff
their wholesale customers this way. imagine a farmer going out to
seed 40 acres and the germination rate was what we often see.

With all due respect, any farmer that plans to make money is going to
properly prepare their soil, plant the seeds according to the instructions,
and then water and feed them appropriately. This is definately not the
case for the vast majority of retail customers.

As far as the retail market goes, a great deal of research goes into
creating seeds that germinate readily under adverse conditions - which
means that I have trouble believing in a conspiracy to provide poorly
germinating seeds to retail customers.

this. and gotta check the date on the package minimum. but you got a
pack of seeds that are duds, I would call the company and bitch like
hell if it was this years seeds. if it was last years seeds it is
entirely correct to bitch at the garden center for putting
out last years seeds to try to make a buck fraudulently.

I agree that all mechandise that's past its 'due date' should be removed
from the shelves - and in my experience, the garden centers, nurseries and
box stores that I go to do an excellent job of keeping their stock up to
date.

If you happen to find expired stock, a non-accusatory question to staff
will usually have good results. Of course starting out with the belief
that the store is trying to make a fraudulent buck and a bad attitude is
much less likely to have favourable results.

I can't think of a single person that enjoys being on the receiving end
of a conversation that starts with "You're a cheater and a liar, and
you're trying to screw me over".

Speaking less generally, if someone showed up in a store that I was running,
and said "Hi - I have packaging from an item that I can't prove that I
bought from you, and have decided that it isn't what I want, so I want you
to give me money for it" ... that'd be a losing proposition.

Think about it - "Hi - I have a wrapper for my chocolate bar, and now that
I've eaten it, it's not what I wanted, so you should give me a refund". That
sounds pretty absurd to me.

cheers!
--
================================================== ========================
"A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound
desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to
avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now."

How to lose customers - vent
 

In article ,
wrote:

This was a while ago in either Rodales or horticulture or consumer
reports or one of
the gardening magazines my mother gets. They did a study comparing
germination rates
of store bought seeds vs wholesale seeds. http://gardenwatchdog.com/ I
got a lot of
hits with poor germination rates on this. Interesting site.
My mother used to do germination tests on seeds every spring to
determine if they are
worth planting or not. She too saw a lot of mixed results. It is just
much easier
to blame the gardener when the seeds dont germinate. Well... my mother been
gardening for 70+ years now and knows how to stratify and scarify and
just plain
scare seeds into production, but she has had packets of real duds and it
sure as hell
wasnt her fault. Ingrid

A had a dud packet of a red variety of california poppy but figured I left
the package in the sun too long or otherwise goofed, but it did sort of
cross my mind they were packaged from some ten-year-old backlog of seeds &
had long before I bought them given up the ghost. (This happened the same
year some magazine ad included a give-away on these seeds resulting in an
alleged shortage, so maybe they actually packaged up some flea eggs for
the rest of the customers.)

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

How to lose customers - vent
 

The message
from "Warren" contains these words:

Somebody who takes the time to come to your store to demand a
refund for a $1.89 seed packet that they don't have a receipt for
because they weren't satisfied with the results of their own growing is
someone who might as well be wearing a t-shirt that says, "I'll complain
about the smallest thing, whether or not it's your fault, and expect you
to foot the bill."

I'd think that T shirt says " I care about good products and services,
which makes me a very valuable advertiser for good retailers". You did
notice that the OP was about to spend more money there, then changed his
mind because of the lack of care he recieved?

Janet.

How to lose customers - vent
 

I dont think the nursery would mind losing a customer like that,
honestly.



On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 23:27:51 -0800, Polar
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 05:20:17 GMT, animaux
wrote:

No problem on the vent, but who takes back seeds for $1.89?

You didn't notice that I was planning to do more shopping at that
nursery? Please read more carefully.

Better yet, who
needs to "vent" over such matters.

I did, and if you don't like it, use your killfile.

Rhetorical.

Misused term.




On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:15:07 -0800, Polar wrote:


I bought two seed packets at a large Japanese nursery. The bok
choy just "sprang" out of the ground, but the cucumbers just sat
there. Only 2-1/1 mangy plants out of the whole expensive packet
(they were a special kind of cucumber).

We are in a mild climate (So. Calif coastal), and have had an
unusually warm "winter". Also, I put a dark plastic cover over the
little seed compartments to aid sprouting. So there shouldn't have
been a problem.

Well, after 5 weeks or so, I gave up on the cucumbers and took
the seed packet back to the nursery. My intention was to buy some
green bean and other seeds, and exchange the n.g. cucumbers.

To my shock, the clerk wouldn't exchange without a receipt.
Who keeps a receipt for 2 packets of seeds for 5-6 weeks?! I asked
him if he wanted to lose a customer over $1.89, and he seemed quite
willing to do so. He was not Japanese; I was tempted to contact the
management, but it's their problem; not worth the effort..

I'm taking my business back to the local nurseries that do not
give customers a hard time, even when returning plants. They value
repeat business.

Excuse vent...g

How to lose customers - vent
 

On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:50:31 GMT, wrote:

yes, very good point. for valentines day I invited my women friends over for a
chocolate orgy. well they didnt eat all of it and I began eating one of these
chocolate over choc. mousse sitting on choc. wafer deals called a mountain peak and
about 3rd bite something didnt taste right ... looked and saw that there was a good
deal of green mold on the inside. OK, so I am a microbiologist and thought, nasty
but probably penicillin and spat it out and didnt freak. now each one of these is
like 3 bucks so I take the half eaten one and the extra back and went to the bakery
counter where I bought them and told her whats what and she wanted to see the receipt
.. which I didnt have. and she said couldnt possibly refund. I walked away with the
product saying very loudly (and to other customers) that this wasnt the only fungusy
food they had sold .. my friend found fungus covered cheese cakes in their cooler and
I hope they will be happy when I do a big spread of this complete with nice pictures
on the internet. she didnt blink an eye. walked over and asked for the manager and
was directed to the service desk where of course they gave me a refund and were
shocked, disgusted and very apologetic. DO go to the top. Ingrid

And DO contact the local Health Dept! YUCK!

How to lose customers - vent
 

In article ,
wrote:
This was a while ago in either Rodales or horticulture or consumer reports
or one of the gardening magazines my mother gets. They did a study comparing
germination rates of store bought seeds vs wholesale seeds.

I'd be interested in reading the article if you can remember enough
details for it to be found.

http://gardenwatchdog.com/ I got a lot of hits with poor germination rates
on this. Interesting site.

....and it basically summarizes "some companies are good, some are bad". This
goes for pretty much every industry. If you start out and presume that
they're all bad (as per your original posting), it's badly unjust to the
vast majority of companies.

My mother used to do germination tests on seeds every spring to determine
if they are worth planting or not. She too saw a lot of mixed results.
It is just much easier to blame the gardener when the seeds dont germinate.
Well... my mother been gardening for 70+ years now and knows how to stratify
and scarify and just plain scare seeds into production, but she has had
packets of real duds and it sure as hell wasnt her fault.

Your mother may know what she's doing, but it's certainly true that the
vast majority of gardeners aren't particularly enthusiastic or adept at
their craft - and equally true that the vast majority of companies providing
seeds aren't out to screw the consumer.

Starting out with the initial presumption that the company is trying to
screw the customer isn't at all a good basis for gaining any sort of
satisfaction.

cheers!
--
================================================== ========================
"A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound
desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to
avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now."

How to lose customers - vent
 

On Mon, 7 Apr 2003 01:12:21 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from "Warren" contains these words:

Somebody who takes the time to come to your store to demand a
refund for a $1.89 seed packet that they don't have a receipt for
because they weren't satisfied with the results of their own growing is
someone who might as well be wearing a t-shirt that says, "I'll complain
about the smallest thing, whether or not it's your fault, and expect you
to foot the bill."

I'd think that T shirt says " I care about good products and services,
which makes me a very valuable advertiser for good retailers". You did
notice that the OP was about to spend more money there, then changed his
mind because of the lack of care he recieved?

Janet.

Fascinating breakdown between sexes on this thread. The usual
testosterone-loaded probably young, uneducated males assume the worst,
whereas the more patient females, with a broader view of the world,
(a) actually *read* the messages ! and (b) make more
charitable/accurate assumptions, per Janet's message.

On this NG, there are more females than on most NGs, which is why
there is generally a more civil tone (that, and gardening is a civil
enterprise).

But once in a while the other kind shows up. Guess it takes all
kinds.

Amazed that a little vent-thread of no importance should have
generated such testosterone-fueled hostility.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Now, can we drop the invective and address the more salient question
of nursery mark-up on seed packets. Inquiring minds...


--
Polar

How to lose customers - vent
 

On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 20:59:18 GMT, animaux
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:29:14 -0700, Polar wrote:

They were a special kind of cucumber. Sorry, I left the packet on the
counter when I departed in low dudgeon. I chose very carefully,
wanting something a little "different" from the Usual Suspects that I
sow each year.

I sowed them in those compartmented plastic gizmos -- surely they have
a name? -- in my regular homemade mix, composed of my very own deep,
dark, delicious compost and a soupcon of worm castings. They were in
the same "holding tank" as the bok choy (which did beautifully).
Watered from below to seep up gradually and not drown the seeds.
Covered with black plastic at first to trap heat. Uncovered after bok
choy germinated.

This may have caused the problem. On certain seeds I use compost, certain seeds
I do not.

Very interesting! How do you decide which are OK for compost, and
which are not?

Compost is loaded with all types of microbes and some are not good
for or hospitable to some seeds. The seeds may have rotted before they had the
chance to germinate. I think you should bite the bullet and get more seeds or
write to the company and ask them what the best way to germinate the seeds would
be. I've always grown cukes in hills, sown directly in the ground. I found
they didn't like being transplanted. Others may have differing experience.

The bok choy may not have been susceptible to the same problems the cukes were,
thus the easy germination.

Try again. Don't give up so easy.


Oh, I'm not giving up! Far from it. Last year I had cucumbers coming
out of my ears! I couldn't use them all up. (A friend from Canada
sent me a recipe for slicing and *freezing* cucumbers!! Didn't try
it. Anybody ever tried this?)

Just going to sow seeds from one of the ordinary varieties sold all
over. Too bad; I was curious about that somewhat more exotic variety.


--
Polar

How to lose customers - vent
 

On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:54:36 GMT, zhanataya wrote:

On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:38:48 GMT, wrote:

it is well known that seed packets to retail people dont have the same quality
control cause they know people wont bring back poorly germinating seeds. but those
little packets of expensive seeds add up to millions of dollars for companies when
last years seeds etc are being fraudulently sold. it is just a big rip off. seed
companies would never try to stiff their wholesale customers this way. imagine a
farmer going out to seed 40 acres and the germination rate was what we often see.
They would have a law suit on their hands. not all seed companies do this. and
gotta check the date on the package minimum. but you got a pack of seeds that are
duds, I would call the company and bitch like hell if it was this years seeds. if it
was last years seeds it is entirely correct to bitch at the garden center for putting
out last years seeds to try to make a buck fraudulently. Ingrid

The jobbers have vendor reps that maintain the racks. The outdated
seeds are RTV'd and credited to fresh stock.

I've seen packets 6/99 cents at those 99 cent stores. Haven't had
much luck with them; tried once; that's enuff.


--
Polar

How to lose customers - vent
 

On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:33:39 -0700, Polar
wrote:

On Sun, 6 Apr 2003 00:31:23 -0800, "Valkyrie"
wrote:


"Polar" wrote in message
. ..

I asked
him if he wanted to lose a customer over $1.89, and he seemed quite
willing to do so. He was not Japanese; I was tempted to contact the
management, but it's their problem; not worth the effort..

I'm taking my business back to the local nurseries that do not
give customers a hard time, even when returning plants. They value
repeat business.

I think you made a mistake not letting the owners of this place know about
their "clerk's policy". I always go to the top with a complaint and let
them know in a nice way what has happened and why I am not pleased, 99% of
the time you will get satisfaction and a thanks from the owners for letting
them know. If this doesn't work I then let the owners know that I will NOT
patronize their business any longer and will also spread the word of my
dissatisfaction and then do just that.

Actually, you're encouraging me to re-open this trivial matter on
principle. My policy is identical with yours, and it always works out
well. I go to the top, meaning the CEO and/or Chief Counsel, by
letter, not by phone, and they -- being somewhat more savvy than the
low-wage clerk or "manager" -- have their long-range interests in
mind, namely, losing business.


Oops - hasten to add that I'm not spending time on letters to CEOs and
Legal Counsels for a $1.89 seed packet (in case any of my critics
eagerly draw that conclusion). Simply endorsing the general
principle. It worked well for me, e.g. in product/service disputes
with Home Despot and Staples, when the stores themselves were
unresponsive.




--
Polar

How to lose customers - vent
 

In article ,
Polar wrote:
Fascinating breakdown between sexes on this thread. The usual
testosterone-loaded probably young, uneducated males assume the worst,
whereas the more patient females, with a broader view of the world,
(a) actually *read* the messages ! and (b) make more
charitable/accurate assumptions, per Janet's message.

That's a pretty impressive leap. I'd suggest that the breakdown is more
likely related to the amount of time that people have spent in customer
facing roles.

On this NG, there are more females than on most NGs, which is why
there is generally a more civil tone (that, and gardening is a civil
enterprise).

That's rather a stretch. The tone of your average newsgroup tends to
be gender independant in my experience. I'd agree that gardening tends
to be both a patient and a civil enterprise, however.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

I'd have to agree. Have your experiences with men always been so
negative?

Wandering back towards gardening, has anybody else read the book that
the UK's National Trust recently put out on garden conservation?
(apologies for the long url)

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/shop...2839&dept=2453

It's a really interesting set of studies and writing about their gardens,
garden management and restoration. It's also a far cry from the usual book
about visiting gardens which seems to be long on lists of botanical names,
and short on anything else.

cheers!
--
================================================== ========================
"A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound
desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to
avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now."