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How to lose customers - vent
I bought two seed packets at a large Japanese nursery. The bok choy just "sprang" out of the ground, but the cucumbers just sat there. Only 2-1/1 mangy plants out of the whole expensive packet (they were a special kind of cucumber). We are in a mild climate (So. Calif coastal), and have had an unusually warm "winter". Also, I put a dark plastic cover over the little seed compartments to aid sprouting. So there shouldn't have been a problem. Well, after 5 weeks or so, I gave up on the cucumbers and took the seed packet back to the nursery. My intention was to buy some green bean and other seeds, and exchange the n.g. cucumbers. To my shock, the clerk wouldn't exchange without a receipt. Who keeps a receipt for 2 packets of seeds for 5-6 weeks?! I asked him if he wanted to lose a customer over $1.89, and he seemed quite willing to do so. He was not Japanese; I was tempted to contact the management, but it's their problem; not worth the effort.. I'm taking my business back to the local nurseries that do not give customers a hard time, even when returning plants. They value repeat business. Excuse vent...g -- Polar |
How to lose customers - vent
To my shock, the clerk wouldn't exchange without a receipt.
Who keeps a receipt for 2 packets of seeds for 5-6 weeks?! I asked him if he wanted to lose a customer over $1.89, and he seemed quite willing to do so. He was not Japanese; I was tempted to contact the management, but it's their problem; not worth the effort.. I'm taking my business back to the local nurseries that do not give customers a hard time, even when returning plants. They value repeat business. Don't feel bad -- we took an item back to Target for an "even" exchange. Just item for item -- it was the wrong size. We no longer had the receipt. To our amazement, they told us they would credit us the sale price towards the purchase of another. This was an even exchange! Their position was that we may have purchased the item on sale in the last 90 days and we therefore could only have that much money toward the swapped item regardless of the fact that the item was the exact same thing. This applies to defective returns as well. So you could purchase an item on sale Saturday, find it was defective and return it on Monday to swap for a working model BUT you'd end up paying more because the item was no longer on sale! The real kicker here is that with that scenario it would not matter if you had a receipt or not -- the recipt would show you purchased it at a sale price so that would be what they would credit to you in the swap. To me this is absolutely ludicrous -- an even exchange should be just that and nothing more. If I am swapping for the same item and that item has no price differential from the one I've returned, other than a sale that occurred in the last NINETY (90) days, then I should not be charged extra because it's no longer on sale. I can understand it in the case of a refund but come on -- an "even" exchange???? To say the least, we no longer shop Target for items like appliances, household goods, and the like or those that might be used as gifts. For the main part, we do not even consider Target for any purchases anymore -- the only time we go there is if they have some sale on a consumable (laundry detergent for example) that is just out of sight. James |
How to lose customers - vent
No problem on the vent, but who takes back seeds for $1.89? Better yet, who
needs to "vent" over such matters. Rhetorical. On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:15:07 -0800, Polar wrote: I bought two seed packets at a large Japanese nursery. The bok choy just "sprang" out of the ground, but the cucumbers just sat there. Only 2-1/1 mangy plants out of the whole expensive packet (they were a special kind of cucumber). We are in a mild climate (So. Calif coastal), and have had an unusually warm "winter". Also, I put a dark plastic cover over the little seed compartments to aid sprouting. So there shouldn't have been a problem. Well, after 5 weeks or so, I gave up on the cucumbers and took the seed packet back to the nursery. My intention was to buy some green bean and other seeds, and exchange the n.g. cucumbers. To my shock, the clerk wouldn't exchange without a receipt. Who keeps a receipt for 2 packets of seeds for 5-6 weeks?! I asked him if he wanted to lose a customer over $1.89, and he seemed quite willing to do so. He was not Japanese; I was tempted to contact the management, but it's their problem; not worth the effort.. I'm taking my business back to the local nurseries that do not give customers a hard time, even when returning plants. They value repeat business. Excuse vent...g |
How to lose customers - vent
animaux wrote:
No problem on the vent, but who takes back seeds for $1.89? Better yet, who needs to "vent" over such matters. Rhetorical. I'm just wondering where there would be a store that you can bring an empty seed package back, and get it replaced or get your money back. I've got a drawer full of empty packets, as I'm sure many people do, and I'd stand in line if I thought they were worth new packets. And I've had such bad luck growing things from seed, I could say they didn't live up to their potential, and not be lying. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:15:07 -0800, Polar
wrote: To my shock, the clerk wouldn't exchange without a receipt. I don't know of too many places that will. |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 06:57:32 GMT, "Warren"
wrote: animaux wrote: No problem on the vent, but who takes back seeds for $1.89? Better yet, who needs to "vent" over such matters. Rhetorical. I'm just wondering where there would be a store that you can bring an empty seed package back, and get it replaced or get your money back. All the local nurseries that I've dealt with for years know their customers, and wouldn't insult a person who brings back a plant that didn't make it (yes, they do that!) or seeds that didn't. Just good business. I've got a drawer full of empty packets, as I'm sure many people do, Why would anybody save empty packets? Straight question. and I'd stand in line if I thought they were worth new packets. And I've had such bad luck growing things from seed, I could say they didn't live up to their potential, and not be lying. Just because you've had back luck doesn't mean that everybody has. -- Polar |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 05:20:17 GMT, animaux
wrote: No problem on the vent, but who takes back seeds for $1.89? You didn't notice that I was planning to do more shopping at that nursery? Please read more carefully. Better yet, who needs to "vent" over such matters. I did, and if you don't like it, use your killfile. Rhetorical. Misused term. On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:15:07 -0800, Polar wrote: I bought two seed packets at a large Japanese nursery. The bok choy just "sprang" out of the ground, but the cucumbers just sat there. Only 2-1/1 mangy plants out of the whole expensive packet (they were a special kind of cucumber). We are in a mild climate (So. Calif coastal), and have had an unusually warm "winter". Also, I put a dark plastic cover over the little seed compartments to aid sprouting. So there shouldn't have been a problem. Well, after 5 weeks or so, I gave up on the cucumbers and took the seed packet back to the nursery. My intention was to buy some green bean and other seeds, and exchange the n.g. cucumbers. To my shock, the clerk wouldn't exchange without a receipt. Who keeps a receipt for 2 packets of seeds for 5-6 weeks?! I asked him if he wanted to lose a customer over $1.89, and he seemed quite willing to do so. He was not Japanese; I was tempted to contact the management, but it's their problem; not worth the effort.. I'm taking my business back to the local nurseries that do not give customers a hard time, even when returning plants. They value repeat business. Excuse vent...g -- Polar |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sun, 6 Apr 2003 00:06:55 -0500, "JNJ" wrote:
To my shock, the clerk wouldn't exchange without a receipt. Who keeps a receipt for 2 packets of seeds for 5-6 weeks?! I asked him if he wanted to lose a customer over $1.89, and he seemed quite willing to do so. He was not Japanese; I was tempted to contact the management, but it's their problem; not worth the effort.. I'm taking my business back to the local nurseries that do not give customers a hard time, even when returning plants. They value repeat business. Don't feel bad -- we took an item back to Target for an "even" exchange. Just item for item -- it was the wrong size. We no longer had the receipt. To our amazement, they told us they would credit us the sale price towards the purchase of another. This was an even exchange! Their position was that we may have purchased the item on sale in the last 90 days and we therefore could only have that much money toward the swapped item regardless of the fact that the item was the exact same thing. This applies to defective returns as well. So you could purchase an item on sale Saturday, find it was defective and return it on Monday to swap for a working model BUT you'd end up paying more because the item was no longer on sale! The real kicker here is that with that scenario it would not matter if you had a receipt or not -- the recipt would show you purchased it at a sale price so that would be what they would credit to you in the swap. To me this is absolutely ludicrous -- an even exchange should be just that and nothing more. If I am swapping for the same item and that item has no price differential from the one I've returned, other than a sale that occurred in the last NINETY (90) days, then I should not be charged extra because it's no longer on sale. I can understand it in the case of a refund but come on -- an "even" exchange???? To say the least, we no longer shop Target for items like appliances, household goods, and the like or those that might be used as gifts. For the main part, we do not even consider Target for any purchases anymore -- the only time we go there is if they have some sale on a consumable (laundry detergent for example) that is just out of sight. Your story just bears out the trend toward megachains that couldn't care less whether they please their customers and get repeat business. People treasure the few remaining local businesses that respect their customers and go out of their way to satisfy them. It's terrible business practice for these biggies to behave so chicken-****, but when you're dealing with a large, anonymous outfit, staffed by low-wage clerks and "managers" who have no stake in the enterprise except pulling a paycheck, that's what you get. -- Polar |
How to lose customers - vent
"Warren" wrote in message news:icQja.103702$Zo.21162@sccrnsc03... I'm just wondering where there would be a store that you can bring an empty seed package back, and get it replaced or get your money back. I've got a drawer full of empty packets, as I'm sure many people do, and I'd stand in line if I thought they were worth new packets. And I've had such bad luck growing things from seed, I could say they didn't live up to their potential, and not be lying. It's like rebates, they know that such a small percentage of the customers will return with a complaint, it's not even worth the bother. A $2 packet costs the store $1. For that $2 seed packet, they probably also sold $5 in soil, another $5 in fertilizer, plus $10 for those mini-greenhouse starter and those tiny compressed peat tablets. I'm surprised they don't just give away the seed. It would be like Gillette giving away the razor blade set , knowing you'll buy plenty of razors from them in the long run. Sameer |
How to lose customers - vent
"Polar" wrote in message ... I asked him if he wanted to lose a customer over $1.89, and he seemed quite willing to do so. He was not Japanese; I was tempted to contact the management, but it's their problem; not worth the effort.. I'm taking my business back to the local nurseries that do not give customers a hard time, even when returning plants. They value repeat business. I think you made a mistake not letting the owners of this place know about their "clerk's policy". I always go to the top with a complaint and let them know in a nice way what has happened and why I am not pleased, 99% of the time you will get satisfaction and a thanks from the owners for letting them know. If this doesn't work I then let the owners know that I will NOT patronize their business any longer and will also spread the word of my dissatisfaction and then do just that. Val |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:15:07 -0800, Polar
wrote: Who keeps a receipt for 2 packets of seeds for 5-6 weeks? who wastes an inordinate amount of time fretting over it? "As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life." Rachel Carson |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 23:27:51 -0800, Polar wrote:
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 05:20:17 GMT, animaux wrote: No problem on the vent, but who takes back seeds for $1.89? You didn't notice that I was planning to do more shopping at that nursery? Please read more carefully. Better yet, who needs to "vent" over such matters. I did, and if you don't like it, use your killfile. Rhetorical. Misused term. No, not misused term. My question was rhetorical, thus not requiring an answer. Just out of curiosity, what kind of seeds were these again, and how did you try to germinate them? |
How to lose customers - vent
Snooze wrote:
It's like rebates, they know that such a small percentage of the customers will return with a complaint, it's not even worth the bother. A $2 packet costs the store $1. They loose the $1 they paid to the supplier, and the $1 of net revenues they booked a few months back. After expenses, you may be talking about a dime of actual profit, and $1.90 that they'll need to make up by selling 19 more packets. For that $2 seed packet, they probably also sold $5 in soil, another $5 in fertilizer, plus $10 for those mini-greenhouse starter and those tiny compressed peat tablets. Could be. But if somebody is in your store pitching a fit about a $1.89 packet of seeds that they had bad luck with, who's to say they aren't going to be returning all those other things, too. I'm surprised they don't just give away the seed. It would be like Gillette giving away the razor blade set , knowing you'll buy plenty of razors from them in the long run. Good idea, assuming your mark-up on those other things is greater than your mark-up on the seeds. But what will you do with someone shows up three months from now with an empty seed packet, and wants a refund for the whole package deal because it didn't produce well? Toxic "customers" can bring your business down pretty fast if you let them. Somebody who takes the time to come to your store to demand a refund for a $1.89 seed packet that they don't have a receipt for because they weren't satisfied with the results of their own growing is someone who might as well be wearing a t-shirt that says, "I'll complain about the smallest thing, whether or not it's your fault, and expect you to foot the bill." -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 16:54:42 GMT, animaux
wrote: On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 23:27:51 -0800, Polar wrote: On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 05:20:17 GMT, animaux wrote: No problem on the vent, but who takes back seeds for $1.89? You didn't notice that I was planning to do more shopping at that nursery? Please read more carefully. Better yet, who needs to "vent" over such matters. I did, and if you don't like it, use your killfile. Rhetorical. Misused term. No, not misused term. My question was rhetorical, thus not requiring an answer. Mea minima culpa. Just out of curiosity, what kind of seeds were these again, and how did you try to germinate them? They were a special kind of cucumber. Sorry, I left the packet on the counter when I departed in low dudgeon. I chose very carefully, wanting something a little "different" from the Usual Suspects that I sow each year. I sowed them in those compartmented plastic gizmos -- surely they have a name? -- in my regular homemade mix, composed of my very own deep, dark, delicious compost and a soupcon of worm castings. They were in the same "holding tank" as the bok choy (which did beautifully). Watered from below to seep up gradually and not drown the seeds. Covered with black plastic at first to trap heat. Uncovered after bok choy germinated. -- Polar |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 16:52:14 GMT, "Warren"
wrote: Polar wrote: I'm just wondering where there would be a store that you can bring an empty seed package back, and get it replaced or get your money back. All the local nurseries that I've dealt with for years know their customers, and wouldn't insult a person who brings back a plant that didn't make it (yes, they do that!) or seeds that didn't. Just good business. Seed packets. Not plants. The stores and nurseries I go to don't pack their own seed packets. If a plant they sell dies, even if they only cared for it for a weekend before selling it, they have a little more responsibility for the condition of the individual plant. The seed packets are mass produced, and sold widely. If you're the only one who had a problem with a particular seed packet, it probably didn't have anything to do with what the store or nursery did. They're not going to get credit from their supplier, and their supplier isn't going to get credit from the producer. If you're returning an empty seed packet to the retail merchant, you're asking them to take responsiblity for something they had nothing to do with. Yeah, we're only talking a very small price. But frankly, my business would have to be very desperate for customers for me to care about loosing one that pitches a tissy fit over a packet of seeds. Over time, an unreasonable customer like that is going to cost more to service than they're worth happy -- and they're pretty much indicating that they'll never be happy if something so minor is such a big deal to them. And they don't even have a receipt! Would you start handing out $1.89 to every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes into your store with an empty seed packet? Once word gets out that you do, people who've never been to your store will be bringing in empty seed packets. Word spreads fast, just as it does when a merchant starts taking coupons for products you aren't buying. Those nickel and dime frauds add up faster than you think, and there are enough people out there making livings off of 50-cents here, 2-bucks there, to put a small businessman out of business. So when you bring in an empty seed packet and no receipt, you're either a con artist, or an unreasonable customer. Either way, that $1.89 today has the potential to add up to big bucks in the future. Even with a receipt, I'm going to wonder what kind of a customer you are. Now if it was a seed packet packed right at my nusurey, and my business is the producer of the seeds, then it's a different story. I had something to do with the quality of those seeds, and it's reasonable to expect me to take some responsibility for it even if you don't have a receipt. And for that matter, even if you bought it someplace else. But my responsibility is because I'm involved with the production of the product. I'm not just reselling a mass-marketed product. I have a rake that broke after one season. I don't expect the store I bought it at to give me my money back. I might have considered making a request to the manufacturer, but it's a rake. Stuff happens, and my use of the rake was as much of a factor as the quality of the rake when it left the factory. It wouldn't be fair to the reseller to ask them to eat the cost of the rake, and absorb costs involved with trying to get the manufacturer to give a refund. I've got a drawer full of empty packets, as I'm sure many people do, Why would anybody save empty packets? Straight question. Because I never remember exactly what anything I plated is. I may remember that I planted three different kinds of marrigolds in a particular bed, but by the time they're blooming, I won't remember what kind they were. It also helps next year when it's time to go shopping for seeds again. I'd stand in line if I thought they were worth new packets. And I've had such bad luck growing things from seed, I could say they didn't live up to their potential, and not be lying. Just because you've had back luck doesn't mean that everybody has. Well, if your luck is better than mine, then when asking for an exchange for your empty seed packet, you'd have to lie about why you want it replaced. If you read carefully, I explained to the store exactly, and politely, what the difference in germination was in the two different seeds I'd purchased from them. I don't know whether you're being deliberately offensive in suggesting that I "lied" to the store; from the rest of your rant, it sure sounds like it, so why don't we not converse further. -- Polar |
How to lose customers - vent
it is well known that seed packets to retail people dont have the same quality
control cause they know people wont bring back poorly germinating seeds. but those little packets of expensive seeds add up to millions of dollars for companies when last years seeds etc are being fraudulently sold. it is just a big rip off. seed companies would never try to stiff their wholesale customers this way. imagine a farmer going out to seed 40 acres and the germination rate was what we often see. They would have a law suit on their hands. not all seed companies do this. and gotta check the date on the package minimum. but you got a pack of seeds that are duds, I would call the company and bitch like hell if it was this years seeds. if it was last years seeds it is entirely correct to bitch at the garden center for putting out last years seeds to try to make a buck fraudulently. Ingrid ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:34:38 -0700, Polar
wrote: I doubt if it's even that much! Seed packets must be a major profit source. Anybody on the inside of the nursery business that has the real skinny on this? We operated on a 60% gross profit. Meaning a $2.00 packet of seeds cost me $1.20 |
How to lose customers - vent
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How to lose customers - vent
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:29:14 -0700, Polar wrote:
They were a special kind of cucumber. Sorry, I left the packet on the counter when I departed in low dudgeon. I chose very carefully, wanting something a little "different" from the Usual Suspects that I sow each year. I sowed them in those compartmented plastic gizmos -- surely they have a name? -- in my regular homemade mix, composed of my very own deep, dark, delicious compost and a soupcon of worm castings. They were in the same "holding tank" as the bok choy (which did beautifully). Watered from below to seep up gradually and not drown the seeds. Covered with black plastic at first to trap heat. Uncovered after bok choy germinated. This may have caused the problem. On certain seeds I use compost, certain seeds I do not. Compost is loaded with all types of microbes and some are not good for or hospitable to some seeds. The seeds may have rotted before they had the chance to germinate. I think you should bite the bullet and get more seeds or write to the company and ask them what the best way to germinate the seeds would be. I've always grown cukes in hills, sown directly in the ground. I found they didn't like being transplanted. Others may have differing experience. The bok choy may not have been susceptible to the same problems the cukes were, thus the easy germination. Try again. Don't give up so easy. |
How to lose customers - vent
In article ,
wrote: it is well known that seed packets to retail people dont have the same qualitycontrol cause they know people wont bring back poorly germinating seeds. but those little packets of expensive seeds add up to millions of dollars for companies whenlast years seeds etc are being fraudulently sold. I'd really like to see the numbers/documentation on that. If it's that well known, surely you can back it up with something other than specious accusations. it is just a big rip off. seed companies would never try to stiff their wholesale customers this way. imagine a farmer going out to seed 40 acres and the germination rate was what we often see. With all due respect, any farmer that plans to make money is going to properly prepare their soil, plant the seeds according to the instructions, and then water and feed them appropriately. This is definately not the case for the vast majority of retail customers. As far as the retail market goes, a great deal of research goes into creating seeds that germinate readily under adverse conditions - which means that I have trouble believing in a conspiracy to provide poorly germinating seeds to retail customers. this. and gotta check the date on the package minimum. but you got a pack of seeds that are duds, I would call the company and bitch like hell if it was this years seeds. if it was last years seeds it is entirely correct to bitch at the garden center for putting out last years seeds to try to make a buck fraudulently. I agree that all mechandise that's past its 'due date' should be removed from the shelves - and in my experience, the garden centers, nurseries and box stores that I go to do an excellent job of keeping their stock up to date. If you happen to find expired stock, a non-accusatory question to staff will usually have good results. Of course starting out with the belief that the store is trying to make a fraudulent buck and a bad attitude is much less likely to have favourable results. I can't think of a single person that enjoys being on the receiving end of a conversation that starts with "You're a cheater and a liar, and you're trying to screw me over". Speaking less generally, if someone showed up in a store that I was running, and said "Hi - I have packaging from an item that I can't prove that I bought from you, and have decided that it isn't what I want, so I want you to give me money for it" ... that'd be a losing proposition. Think about it - "Hi - I have a wrapper for my chocolate bar, and now that I've eaten it, it's not what I wanted, so you should give me a refund". That sounds pretty absurd to me. cheers! -- ================================================== ======================== "A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now." |
How to lose customers - vent
The message
from "Warren" contains these words: Somebody who takes the time to come to your store to demand a refund for a $1.89 seed packet that they don't have a receipt for because they weren't satisfied with the results of their own growing is someone who might as well be wearing a t-shirt that says, "I'll complain about the smallest thing, whether or not it's your fault, and expect you to foot the bill." I'd think that T shirt says " I care about good products and services, which makes me a very valuable advertiser for good retailers". You did notice that the OP was about to spend more money there, then changed his mind because of the lack of care he recieved? Janet. |
How to lose customers - vent
I dont think the nursery would mind losing a customer like that,
honestly. On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 23:27:51 -0800, Polar wrote: On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 05:20:17 GMT, animaux wrote: No problem on the vent, but who takes back seeds for $1.89? You didn't notice that I was planning to do more shopping at that nursery? Please read more carefully. Better yet, who needs to "vent" over such matters. I did, and if you don't like it, use your killfile. Rhetorical. Misused term. On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:15:07 -0800, Polar wrote: I bought two seed packets at a large Japanese nursery. The bok choy just "sprang" out of the ground, but the cucumbers just sat there. Only 2-1/1 mangy plants out of the whole expensive packet (they were a special kind of cucumber). We are in a mild climate (So. Calif coastal), and have had an unusually warm "winter". Also, I put a dark plastic cover over the little seed compartments to aid sprouting. So there shouldn't have been a problem. Well, after 5 weeks or so, I gave up on the cucumbers and took the seed packet back to the nursery. My intention was to buy some green bean and other seeds, and exchange the n.g. cucumbers. To my shock, the clerk wouldn't exchange without a receipt. Who keeps a receipt for 2 packets of seeds for 5-6 weeks?! I asked him if he wanted to lose a customer over $1.89, and he seemed quite willing to do so. He was not Japanese; I was tempted to contact the management, but it's their problem; not worth the effort.. I'm taking my business back to the local nurseries that do not give customers a hard time, even when returning plants. They value repeat business. Excuse vent...g |
How to lose customers - vent
|
How to lose customers - vent
In article ,
wrote: This was a while ago in either Rodales or horticulture or consumer reports or one of the gardening magazines my mother gets. They did a study comparing germination rates of store bought seeds vs wholesale seeds. I'd be interested in reading the article if you can remember enough details for it to be found. http://gardenwatchdog.com/ I got a lot of hits with poor germination rates on this. Interesting site. ....and it basically summarizes "some companies are good, some are bad". This goes for pretty much every industry. If you start out and presume that they're all bad (as per your original posting), it's badly unjust to the vast majority of companies. My mother used to do germination tests on seeds every spring to determine if they are worth planting or not. She too saw a lot of mixed results. It is just much easier to blame the gardener when the seeds dont germinate. Well... my mother been gardening for 70+ years now and knows how to stratify and scarify and just plain scare seeds into production, but she has had packets of real duds and it sure as hell wasnt her fault. Your mother may know what she's doing, but it's certainly true that the vast majority of gardeners aren't particularly enthusiastic or adept at their craft - and equally true that the vast majority of companies providing seeds aren't out to screw the consumer. Starting out with the initial presumption that the company is trying to screw the customer isn't at all a good basis for gaining any sort of satisfaction. cheers! -- ================================================== ======================== "A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now." |
How to lose customers - vent
On Mon, 7 Apr 2003 01:12:21 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote: The message from "Warren" contains these words: Somebody who takes the time to come to your store to demand a refund for a $1.89 seed packet that they don't have a receipt for because they weren't satisfied with the results of their own growing is someone who might as well be wearing a t-shirt that says, "I'll complain about the smallest thing, whether or not it's your fault, and expect you to foot the bill." I'd think that T shirt says " I care about good products and services, which makes me a very valuable advertiser for good retailers". You did notice that the OP was about to spend more money there, then changed his mind because of the lack of care he recieved? Janet. Fascinating breakdown between sexes on this thread. The usual testosterone-loaded probably young, uneducated males assume the worst, whereas the more patient females, with a broader view of the world, (a) actually *read* the messages ! and (b) make more charitable/accurate assumptions, per Janet's message. On this NG, there are more females than on most NGs, which is why there is generally a more civil tone (that, and gardening is a civil enterprise). But once in a while the other kind shows up. Guess it takes all kinds. Amazed that a little vent-thread of no importance should have generated such testosterone-fueled hostility. Honi soit qui mal y pense. Now, can we drop the invective and address the more salient question of nursery mark-up on seed packets. Inquiring minds... -- Polar |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 20:59:18 GMT, animaux
wrote: On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:29:14 -0700, Polar wrote: They were a special kind of cucumber. Sorry, I left the packet on the counter when I departed in low dudgeon. I chose very carefully, wanting something a little "different" from the Usual Suspects that I sow each year. I sowed them in those compartmented plastic gizmos -- surely they have a name? -- in my regular homemade mix, composed of my very own deep, dark, delicious compost and a soupcon of worm castings. They were in the same "holding tank" as the bok choy (which did beautifully). Watered from below to seep up gradually and not drown the seeds. Covered with black plastic at first to trap heat. Uncovered after bok choy germinated. This may have caused the problem. On certain seeds I use compost, certain seeds I do not. Very interesting! How do you decide which are OK for compost, and which are not? Compost is loaded with all types of microbes and some are not good for or hospitable to some seeds. The seeds may have rotted before they had the chance to germinate. I think you should bite the bullet and get more seeds or write to the company and ask them what the best way to germinate the seeds would be. I've always grown cukes in hills, sown directly in the ground. I found they didn't like being transplanted. Others may have differing experience. The bok choy may not have been susceptible to the same problems the cukes were, thus the easy germination. Try again. Don't give up so easy. Oh, I'm not giving up! Far from it. Last year I had cucumbers coming out of my ears! I couldn't use them all up. (A friend from Canada sent me a recipe for slicing and *freezing* cucumbers!! Didn't try it. Anybody ever tried this?) Just going to sow seeds from one of the ordinary varieties sold all over. Too bad; I was curious about that somewhat more exotic variety. -- Polar |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:54:36 GMT, zhanataya wrote:
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:38:48 GMT, wrote: it is well known that seed packets to retail people dont have the same quality control cause they know people wont bring back poorly germinating seeds. but those little packets of expensive seeds add up to millions of dollars for companies when last years seeds etc are being fraudulently sold. it is just a big rip off. seed companies would never try to stiff their wholesale customers this way. imagine a farmer going out to seed 40 acres and the germination rate was what we often see. They would have a law suit on their hands. not all seed companies do this. and gotta check the date on the package minimum. but you got a pack of seeds that are duds, I would call the company and bitch like hell if it was this years seeds. if it was last years seeds it is entirely correct to bitch at the garden center for putting out last years seeds to try to make a buck fraudulently. Ingrid The jobbers have vendor reps that maintain the racks. The outdated seeds are RTV'd and credited to fresh stock. I've seen packets 6/99 cents at those 99 cent stores. Haven't had much luck with them; tried once; that's enuff. -- Polar |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:33:39 -0700, Polar
wrote: On Sun, 6 Apr 2003 00:31:23 -0800, "Valkyrie" wrote: "Polar" wrote in message . .. I asked him if he wanted to lose a customer over $1.89, and he seemed quite willing to do so. He was not Japanese; I was tempted to contact the management, but it's their problem; not worth the effort.. I'm taking my business back to the local nurseries that do not give customers a hard time, even when returning plants. They value repeat business. I think you made a mistake not letting the owners of this place know about their "clerk's policy". I always go to the top with a complaint and let them know in a nice way what has happened and why I am not pleased, 99% of the time you will get satisfaction and a thanks from the owners for letting them know. If this doesn't work I then let the owners know that I will NOT patronize their business any longer and will also spread the word of my dissatisfaction and then do just that. Actually, you're encouraging me to re-open this trivial matter on principle. My policy is identical with yours, and it always works out well. I go to the top, meaning the CEO and/or Chief Counsel, by letter, not by phone, and they -- being somewhat more savvy than the low-wage clerk or "manager" -- have their long-range interests in mind, namely, losing business. Oops - hasten to add that I'm not spending time on letters to CEOs and Legal Counsels for a $1.89 seed packet (in case any of my critics eagerly draw that conclusion). Simply endorsing the general principle. It worked well for me, e.g. in product/service disputes with Home Despot and Staples, when the stores themselves were unresponsive. -- Polar |
How to lose customers - vent
In article ,
Polar wrote: Fascinating breakdown between sexes on this thread. The usual testosterone-loaded probably young, uneducated males assume the worst, whereas the more patient females, with a broader view of the world, (a) actually *read* the messages ! and (b) make more charitable/accurate assumptions, per Janet's message. That's a pretty impressive leap. I'd suggest that the breakdown is more likely related to the amount of time that people have spent in customer facing roles. On this NG, there are more females than on most NGs, which is why there is generally a more civil tone (that, and gardening is a civil enterprise). That's rather a stretch. The tone of your average newsgroup tends to be gender independant in my experience. I'd agree that gardening tends to be both a patient and a civil enterprise, however. Honi soit qui mal y pense. I'd have to agree. Have your experiences with men always been so negative? Wandering back towards gardening, has anybody else read the book that the UK's National Trust recently put out on garden conservation? (apologies for the long url) http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/shop...2839&dept=2453 It's a really interesting set of studies and writing about their gardens, garden management and restoration. It's also a far cry from the usual book about visiting gardens which seems to be long on lists of botanical names, and short on anything else. cheers! -- ================================================== ======================== "A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now." |
How to lose customers - vent
(Cat) writes:
Polar wrote: Fascinating breakdown between sexes on this thread. The usual testosterone-loaded probably young, uneducated males assume the worst, whereas the more patient females, with a broader view of the world, (a) actually *read* the messages ! and (b) make more charitable/accurate assumptions, per Janet's message. That's a pretty impressive leap. I'd suggest that the breakdown is more likely related to the amount of time that people have spent in customer facing roles. I dunno, I've worked for quite a while in customer service at a local insurance agency - you know, the person people call in to when they're mad their insurance rates went up - and I side with the customer quite often. I find myself more critical of other service professions, as well, not taking any flak from those who are rude or unresponsive. * * * Stacia * * http://world.std.com/~stacia/ "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall |
How to lose customers - vent
Im not going to read the 50 some odd posts in this thread, but as a nurseryman
who has worked for retail garden centers before, I would like to say this- how friken hard is it to save your reciept?? This tiny slip of paper proves that you actually purchased the merchandise at the particular establishment and at what price. The store covers its responsibility in making sure you have an accurate report of the Items that you purchased, it is not much to ask that you retain it for your records or in the case that you may have to make a return. I agree that a seed packet is an acception because they cost next to nothing, but you relaly dont have any Idea of the kind of theft that occurs at retail nurseries. I have had many many encounters with it, in a highly affluent area, no less. Many places have visible sinage stating that returns will be honored as long as a recipt is presented within a certain amount of time. In closing, its only 2 bucks!!! dont get all worked up over it. Suck it up and save your reciept next time. Toad |
How to lose customers - vent
Polar wrote:
I've got a drawer full of empty packets, as I'm sure many people do, Why would anybody save empty packets? Straight question. I save my empty packets. a. As a record of what I've tried in the past. b. As a record of what that source recommends for that plant. Some seed packets have more info on the inside of the packet. c. Sometimes the pictures are pretty. Jay |
How to lose customers - vent
Cat writes:
I'd suggest that the breakdown is more likely related to the amount of time that people have spent in customer facing roles. I'd agree. I may be male, but I'm far from young. And while I haven't surveyed the others in this thread, my impression of the people who think the worst are far from being new to this world. Young people are usually nieve. By the time you get old, you get tired of watching people pulling the same cons over and over again, and you being to realize that you can get along without needing to do business with unreasonable people. Or at least you do if you spend a significant portion of your work life dealing with "customers" who's goal in life seems to be to nickel and dime you, and still they won't be satified even if you give them a whole dollar. Stacia wrote: I dunno, I've worked for quite a while in customer service at a local insurance agency - you know, the person people call in to when they're mad their insurance rates went up - and I side with the customer quite often. I find myself more critical of other service professions, as well, not taking any flak from those who are rude or unresponsive. When you say you "side with the customer quite often", does that mean you changed their rates to something more pleasing to them? There's a big difference between being there to listen to complaints, and having the authority and responsibility to open the cash register and hand out money. If the customer was "always right," there wouldn't be enough profit to stay in business. There always has to be that line. There always has to be that point between reasonable and unreasonable. And once you try to satisfy the unreasonable requests, you've started on the route to going out of business. Yes, you'll get more customers. You'll get all the friends that think the unreasonable request is reasonable. You'll have plenty of unreasonable customers, and eventually you'll go bankrupt trying to satisfy people who will never be satisfied. Someone returning an empty container with no receipt is not reasonable. If you take an empty box of Wheaties back to the mom and pop store on the corner, would you expect them to give you a replacement box for free? Even General Mills wants you to produce a receipt when requesting a refund, and it was their product. The poor mom and pop with the corner store may (or may not have) sold you the box, but it's unreasonable to expect them to eat the cost of the replacement box even if you're hinting that you may buy a can of soda. Who's to say you won't be back tomorrow with another empty Wheaties box, and an empty can of soda, and want replacements for both? (Well, at least if you come back that soon they'd remember you as that "customer" from the other day. Wait three weeks, and come back. Do it that way, and you might be able to get more free stuff for another couple of rounds before they finally realize how much you being their "customer" is costing them.) Fool them once, shame on you. Fool them twice, shame on them. Fool them three times, and chances are you aren't the only one fooling them on a regular basis, and they'll soon be out of business. Don't like your Wheaties? Tell General Mills. Don't complain about the mom and pop on the corner who won't give you a new box even though you don't have a receipt, and haven't been in the store for as long as they can remember. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. |
How to lose customers - vent
"Warren" wrote in message
.net... Snooze wrote: I'm surprised they don't just give away the seed. It would be like Gillette giving away the razor blade set , knowing you'll buy plenty of razors from them in the long run. Good idea, assuming your mark-up on those other things is greater than your mark-up on the seeds. But what will you do with someone shows up three months from now with an empty seed packet, and wants a refund for the whole package deal because it didn't produce well? Toxic "customers" can bring your business down pretty fast if you let them. Somebody who takes the time to come to your store to demand a refund for a $1.89 seed packet that they don't have a receipt for because they weren't satisfied with the results of their own growing is someone who might as well be wearing a t-shirt that says, "I'll complain about the smallest thing, whether or not it's your fault, and expect you to foot the bill." Most businesses owners and managers get a sense of which customers are rats, and which ones are good customers. In my business, if a customer comments that they weren't satisfied with the service they received, we remedy it the first time no questions asked. The second time we evaluate if customer is a good one or not, and if the reason for the dissatisfaction is our fault or not. Sameer |
How to lose customers - vent
The response you get will depend entirely on the quality of the garden center and
its customer service policy. At my nursery, a cash refund requires a sales receipt. otherwise, we will replace or exchange any plant material that was alive at time of purchase (upto a year, sometimes longer). While there is no way we would be able to guarantee the viability of the contents of a seed pack (who knows what the customer might have done with it once it left the store), we would most certainly, in the interests of good customer service, replace it. Returns on any items we sell make up such a small financial investment (less than 1% of total sales) that it is far more important to us to maintain and develop the goodwill of our customer base than to quibble about a receipt for under $2.00. That $2.00 write-off will generate 10's, if not 100's of dollars in future business from satisfied customers. Perhaps that is why, in this time of uncertain economic conditions, my nursery has a 51% increase in sales over last year. YMMV pam - gardengal Marley1372 wrote: Im not going to read the 50 some odd posts in this thread, but as a nurseryman who has worked for retail garden centers before, I would like to say this- how friken hard is it to save your reciept?? This tiny slip of paper proves that you actually purchased the merchandise at the particular establishment and at what price. The store covers its responsibility in making sure you have an accurate report of the Items that you purchased, it is not much to ask that you retain it for your records or in the case that you may have to make a return. I agree that a seed packet is an acception because they cost next to nothing, but you relaly dont have any Idea of the kind of theft that occurs at retail nurseries. I have had many many encounters with it, in a highly affluent area, no less. Many places have visible sinage stating that returns will be honored as long as a recipt is presented within a certain amount of time. In closing, its only 2 bucks!!! dont get all worked up over it. Suck it up and save your reciept next time. Toad |
How to lose customers - vent
On Sun, 06 Apr 2003 21:00:10 -0700, Polar wrote:
Very interesting! How do you decide which are OK for compost, and which are not? Well, I find seeds of cucurbits are prone to fungal diseases early on. Many times seeds are pre-treated with fungicides to the nursery trade. We would have to wear gloves to broadcast seed the flats with things like watermelons, cucumbers, squashes, etc. Plants which are native to the area, ornamental trees, shrubs etc., are more adapted and resistant to many of the fungal problems seeds have in other species. Watering is key, as well. Too wet and rotted seeds occur. If you have a used bookstore, there are some good books on seed germination. I have one here which is written for the lay person, if you want it I could mail it to you. Growing plants from seed is such a tremendous accomplishment for me. I feel like I am part of the big picture. The book I have is from Smith and Hawkins library of books. v |
How to lose customers - vent
The message
from (Cat) contains these words: Wandering back towards gardening, has anybody else read the book that the UK's National Trust recently put out on garden conservation? (apologies for the long url) http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/shop...2839&dept=2453 It's a really interesting set of studies and writing about their gardens, garden management and restoration. It's also a far cry from the usual book about visiting gardens which seems to be long on lists of botanical names, and short on anything else. No I haven't read it, but will look out for it, thanks; I'm a volunteer worker at a National Trust garden (Brodick Castle). Janet. |
How to lose customers - vent
"Warren" writes:
Stacia wrote: I dunno, I've worked for quite a while in customer service at a local insurance agency - you know, the person people call in to when they're mad their insurance rates went up - and I side with the customer quite often. I find myself more critical of other service professions, as well, not taking any flak from those who are rude or unresponsive. When you say you "side with the customer quite often", does that mean you changed their rates to something more pleasing to them? There's a big difference between being there to listen to complaints, and having the authority and responsibility to open the cash register and hand out money. No one in the building can change rates. We can, however, negotiate effective dates of change, side with the customer when we feel perhaps a processor or agent has done them wrong, etc. It can add up to lots of money back to the customer. But basically I was saying that now that I'm in customer service, I don't take poor customer service from others lying down. Someone returning an empty container with no receipt is not reasonable. But with seeds, I guess I don't see how else you could return the item? Even with the receipt, the seeds are still gone. How do you know the seeds are bad unless you've used them? I suppose you could use just some of the seeds but I personally might not have that presence of mind. Don't like your Wheaties? Tell General Mills. I thought these seeds were from the nursery itself, or were they from a larger company the nursery bought from? Basically I think a clerk could be very nice about the return policy, so that the OP wouldn't have left so upset or determined to never go back. If the customer was so upset as to take the time to go to the store for a refund $1.89 packet then I'd be willing to cut them the benefit of the doubt, that they were serious about their disappointment with the product. While you get an idea of who's trying to screw you over you can also tell who's really just a victim of bad luck or bad service, too. That said, I guess I always thought seeds were iffy at best and never would have thought of returning any. But I'm a newbie at gardening. * * * Stacia * * http://world.std.com/~stacia/ "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall |
How to lose customers - vent
Count me in your poll as a female with a broad view of the world and who further
believes that Warren has all the good points on his side. I'd say more, but I so completely agree with his analysis that I have nothing to add. --Lia Fascinating breakdown between sexes on this thread. The usual testosterone-loaded probably young, uneducated males assume the worst, whereas the more patient females, with a broader view of the world, (a) actually *read* the messages ! and (b) make more charitable/accurate assumptions, per Janet's message. |
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