On May 19, 4:03 am, Ann wrote:
sherwindu expounded:

I may try germinating my tomato plants without heating pads,
as they are more inclined to start the soonest. Flowers and certain veggies are
another matter, and I'm skeptical that they would start without some form of
heat.

I never use a heating pad and I get good germination on all of my
seeds. Even zinnias, which are reputed to need to be higher than 70
degrees to germinate.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

On May 19, 4:03 am, Ann wrote:
sherwindu expounded:

I may try germinating my tomato plants without heating pads,
as they are more inclined to start the soonest. Flowers and certain veggies are
another matter, and I'm skeptical that they would start without some form of
heat.

I never use a heating pad and I get good germination on all of my
seeds. Even zinnias, which are reputed to need to be higher than 70
degrees to germinate.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

On May 19, 4:03 am, Ann wrote:
sherwindu expounded:

I may try germinating my tomato plants without heating pads,
as they are more inclined to start the soonest. Flowers and certain veggies are
another matter, and I'm skeptical that they would start without some form of
heat.

I never use a heating pad and I get good germination on all of my
seeds. Even zinnias, which are reputed to need to be higher than 70
degrees to germinate.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

Sorry about the blank posts (if they show up). It was not
intentional. Slip of the mouse. ihategoogleihategoogleihategoogle

Anyway, I was going to say, that even with things like tomatoes,
which need a warmer temperature, they don't need to be heated up all
the time. I start my seeds in plastic containers with the lid on, so
if something needs warmth to start, I just put it over the heating
vent. The stove top is good too. Then as soon as they've germinated I
put them under the lights.
Some good info on this site. http://grow.ars-informatica.ca/index.php
Dora

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
I kind of figured it would affect my electric bill, but a recent increase
from
ComEd
in the Chicago area has made it more evident that raising plants from
seeds can
be
very costly. For about one month, I had two double flourecent shop lights
and
about
six small heating pads going to germinate my seeds. My electric bill
almost
doubled.
Guess there is no way around it, but makes one think twice about growing
veggies

and flowers from seed.

Sherwin D.



Have you considered a small hothouse, size to suit your needs? Shoebox to ?
in size. Sun does the primary warming. Airtight.
Dave

In article . net,
"Dave" wrote:

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
I kind of figured it would affect my electric bill, but a recent increase
from
ComEd
in the Chicago area has made it more evident that raising plants from
seeds can
be
very costly. For about one month, I had two double flourecent shop lights
and
about
six small heating pads going to germinate my seeds. My electric bill
almost
doubled.
Guess there is no way around it, but makes one think twice about growing
veggies

and flowers from seed.

Sherwin D.



Have you considered a small hothouse, size to suit your needs? Shoebox to ?
in size. Sun does the primary warming. Airtight.
Dave

In some areas of life I just feel fortunate (this is one of them). I do
just fine without heat pads. I put my seed starting kits on folding TV
trays above the floor heat registers and all of my south side windows
have heat registers in front of them. Seems to work just fine.

I do not have grow lights just designed for plants. What I do have is
two ott natural reading 18w lamps. I just love those lamps, so much
easier on the eyes when reading. So on cloudy days I puts the lamps over
some of the seed kits. Unknown If this truly helps the plants?

I usually end up killing my plants during transplanting

As for the high cost of seed starting -- I am finding the cost of just
driving my car to the supermarket cost as much as a good tossed salad.
I cant wait until I can get a good meal from walking into my own back
yard.

Enjoy Life ........ Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

"Dan L." wrote:

In article . net,
"Dave" wrote:

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
I kind of figured it would affect my electric bill, but a recent increase
from
ComEd
in the Chicago area has made it more evident that raising plants from
seeds can
be
very costly. For about one month, I had two double flourecent shop lights
and
about
six small heating pads going to germinate my seeds. My electric bill
almost
doubled.
Guess there is no way around it, but makes one think twice about growing
veggies

and flowers from seed.

Sherwin D.



Have you considered a small hothouse, size to suit your needs? Shoebox to ?
in size. Sun does the primary warming. Airtight.
Dave

In some areas of life I just feel fortunate (this is one of them). I do
just fine without heat pads. I put my seed starting kits on folding TV
trays above the floor heat registers and all of my south side windows
have heat registers in front of them. Seems to work just fine.

Unfortunately, I have no floor head register, but wall mounted forced
air ducts. I am going to be stingy about using my heating pads next
year. As soon as I see sprouts, I'm either going to turn down or turn
off the heating pads. It never gets that cold in my crawl space.



I do not have grow lights just designed for plants. What I do have is
two ott natural reading 18w lamps. I just love those lamps, so much
easier on the eyes when reading. So on cloudy days I puts the lamps over
some of the seed kits. Unknown If this truly helps the plants?

I use two shop lites each with a regular florescent and a grow light, to give
the most broad spectrum of light.



I usually end up killing my plants during transplanting

Now there I have no problem. You should carefully pry up the plants trying
to retain as much original growing media, as possible. Plant your spindly
seedlings
deep, as they will generate new roots. Not sure exactly what is your problem
with transplanting?

Sherwin



As for the high cost of seed starting -- I am finding the cost of just
driving my car to the supermarket cost as much as a good tossed salad.
I cant wait until I can get a good meal from walking into my own back
yard.

Enjoy Life ........ Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

I usually end up killing my plants during transplanting

Handle seedlings by the cotyledons (seed leaves), not by the stem. It's
too easy to accidentally crush the stem of a seedling.
That's one of the most common causes of seedling death.
If your seedlings came up in a clump, lift the clump, and try to pull
seedlings off by sort of lightly shaking and pulling two seedlings
apart. Or lay the clump down after lightly shaking off all the soil
you can, and tease the clump apart with a couple of pot labels.

If you are vastly overpotting your seedlings, you have to be *very*
careful with watering, especially at first. Soggy soil that doesn't
have roots in it tends to turn acidic from bacterial and fungal metabolism,
and then when the roots try to grow into the acidic soil, they often
die back. 2" pot is probably the maximum size for most of us growing
tomatoes from seed and transplanting at the 2-true-leaf stage. If
they get crowded in the 2" pot, you can shift them to a 4" pot later.

Also, always transplant into slightly moist soil. Water ASAP after
transplanting.

Kay

In article ,
Kay Lancaster wrote:

I usually end up killing my plants during transplanting

Handle seedlings by the cotyledons (seed leaves), not by the stem. It's
too easy to accidentally crush the stem of a seedling.
That's one of the most common causes of seedling death.
If your seedlings came up in a clump, lift the clump, and try to pull
seedlings off by sort of lightly shaking and pulling two seedlings
apart. Or lay the clump down after lightly shaking off all the soil
you can, and tease the clump apart with a couple of pot labels.

If you are vastly overpotting your seedlings, you have to be *very*
careful with watering, especially at first. Soggy soil that doesn't
have roots in it tends to turn acidic from bacterial and fungal metabolism,
and then when the roots try to grow into the acidic soil, they often
die back. 2" pot is probably the maximum size for most of us growing
tomatoes from seed and transplanting at the 2-true-leaf stage. If
they get crowded in the 2" pot, you can shift them to a 4" pot later.

Also, always transplant into slightly moist soil. Water ASAP after
transplanting.

Kay

Kay, what would you think of lying the seedlings on a surface and using
a light spray (and I mean light, maybe a squirt bottle) of water to wash
away any soil that may be binding the roots together? Then, carefully,
replant with fresh potting soil.

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

On Wed, 23 May 2007 13:11:25 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article ,
Kay Lancaster wrote:

I usually end up killing my plants during transplanting

Handle seedlings by the cotyledons (seed leaves), not by the stem. It's
too easy to accidentally crush the stem of a seedling.
That's one of the most common causes of seedling death.
If your seedlings came up in a clump, lift the clump, and try to pull
seedlings off by sort of lightly shaking and pulling two seedlings
apart. Or lay the clump down after lightly shaking off all the soil
you can, and tease the clump apart with a couple of pot labels.

If you are vastly overpotting your seedlings, you have to be *very*
careful with watering, especially at first. Soggy soil that doesn't
have roots in it tends to turn acidic from bacterial and fungal metabolism,
and then when the roots try to grow into the acidic soil, they often
die back. 2" pot is probably the maximum size for most of us growing
tomatoes from seed and transplanting at the 2-true-leaf stage. If
they get crowded in the 2" pot, you can shift them to a 4" pot later.

Also, always transplant into slightly moist soil. Water ASAP after
transplanting.

Kay

Kay, what would you think of lying

Now here's an example of someone in good faith trying too hard to be
grammatically correct. Why the lie/lay problem is so intractable, I
fail to understand. I notice even good writers, especially younger
ones who never learned grammar, get confused.

There are two separate verbs, so don't make them work so hard.
EacH one has a different job to do.

"Lie" is intransitive- meaning it does NOT take a direct object.

I LIE down to sleep.

but

I LAY ME down to sleep. This transitive verb does take a direct
object: "ME".

and

I LAY the WREATH at the gravesite. Object is "Wreath"

and, in this post,

You LAY the seedlings on a surface...

=============

Here's where the fun begins -- in the past tense.

Intransitive verb TO LIE does not take an object

Present: I LIE down to sleep.

Past: I LAY down to sleep.

(incorrect: I LAID down to sleep.)

==========

Transitive verb TO LAY does take an object

Present: I LAY the wreath at the gravesite.

Past: I LAID the wreath at the grave.

Easy to see how the confusion arises. But once learned,
the rule becomes second nature both in writing and speaking.

(Whew! Wipes brow in utter exhaustion...)

Persephone

the seedlings on a surface and using
a light spray (and I mean light, maybe a squirt bottle) of water to wash
away any soil that may be binding the roots together? Then, carefully,
replant with fresh potting soil.

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

In article , Persephone
wrote:

On Wed, 23 May 2007 13:11:25 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article ,
Kay Lancaster wrote:

I usually end up killing my plants during transplanting

Handle seedlings by the cotyledons (seed leaves), not by the stem. It's
too easy to accidentally crush the stem of a seedling.
That's one of the most common causes of seedling death.
If your seedlings came up in a clump, lift the clump, and try to pull
seedlings off by sort of lightly shaking and pulling two seedlings
apart. Or lay the clump down after lightly shaking off all the soil
you can, and tease the clump apart with a couple of pot labels.

If you are vastly overpotting your seedlings, you have to be *very*
careful with watering, especially at first. Soggy soil that doesn't
have roots in it tends to turn acidic from bacterial and fungal metabolism,
and then when the roots try to grow into the acidic soil, they often
die back. 2" pot is probably the maximum size for most of us growing
tomatoes from seed and transplanting at the 2-true-leaf stage. If
they get crowded in the 2" pot, you can shift them to a 4" pot later.

Also, always transplant into slightly moist soil. Water ASAP after
transplanting.

Kay

Kay, what would you think of lying

Now here's an example of someone in good faith trying too hard to be
grammatically correct. Why the lie/lay problem is so intractable, I
fail to understand. I notice even good writers, especially younger
ones who never learned grammar, get confused.

There are two separate verbs, so don't make them work so hard.
EacH one has a different job to do.

"Lie" is intransitive- meaning it does NOT take a direct object.

I LIE down to sleep.

but

I LAY ME down to sleep. This transitive verb does take a direct
object: "ME".

and

I LAY the WREATH at the gravesite. Object is "Wreath"

and, in this post,

You LAY the seedlings on a surface...

=============

Here's where the fun begins -- in the past tense.

Intransitive verb TO LIE does not take an object

Present: I LIE down to sleep.

Past: I LAY down to sleep.

(incorrect: I LAID down to sleep.)

==========

Transitive verb TO LAY does take an object

Present: I LAY the wreath at the gravesite.

Past: I LAID the wreath at the grave.

Easy to see how the confusion arises. But once learned,
the rule becomes second nature both in writing and speaking.

(Whew! Wipes brow in utter exhaustion...)

Persephone

the seedlings on a surface and using
a light spray (and I mean light, maybe a squirt bottle) of water to wash
away any soil that may be binding the roots together? Then, carefully,
replant with fresh potting soil.

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

I'm inclined to agree with you;-) You sound as if you could use a really
good lay down:-O I hope someone learned from my mistake. I shouldn't
get in such a hurry. Well, I hope that's been laid to rest. But, I
suspect that I'm prone to do it again.

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (bad jokes, free of charge)

On Wed, 23 May 2007 13:11:25 -0700, Bill Rose wrote:

Kay, what would you think of lying the seedlings on a surface and using
a light spray (and I mean light, maybe a squirt bottle) of water to wash
away any soil that may be binding the roots together? Then, carefully,
replant with fresh potting soil.

I tried that once... all it got was severely tangled roots. Ditto my
attempts to wash the germination medium off the soil in a bowl of water.
I find the "grab a cotyledon on each of two plants and shake them gently
apart" method works the best for me, and it's what I've seen "pro"
greenhouse folks do when planting (at my best, I could never keep up
with the pros in seedling transplanting.)

I have gotten much better over the years at sowing seeds in seedpans
in nice straight lines with some space between the seedlings. We shall
not mention the year I sneezed and blew about 1000 petunia seeds into
about 4 square inches of soil. That was Not Fun to disentangle.

I'll "reprint" my old summary of how I start stuff from seed in a separate
post.

Kay

"Bill Rose" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kay Lancaster wrote:

I usually end up killing my plants during transplanting

Handle seedlings by the cotyledons (seed leaves), not by the stem. It's
too easy to accidentally crush the stem of a seedling.
That's one of the most common causes of seedling death.
If your seedlings came up in a clump, lift the clump, and try to pull
seedlings off by sort of lightly shaking and pulling two seedlings
apart. Or lay the clump down after lightly shaking off all the soil
you can, and tease the clump apart with a couple of pot labels.

If you are vastly overpotting your seedlings, you have to be *very*
careful with watering, especially at first. Soggy soil that doesn't
have roots in it tends to turn acidic from bacterial and fungal
metabolism,
and then when the roots try to grow into the acidic soil, they often
die back. 2" pot is probably the maximum size for most of us growing
tomatoes from seed and transplanting at the 2-true-leaf stage. If
they get crowded in the 2" pot, you can shift them to a 4" pot later.

Also, always transplant into slightly moist soil. Water ASAP after
transplanting.

Kay

Kay, what would you think of lying the seedlings on a surface and using
a light spray (and I mean light, maybe a squirt bottle) of water to wash
away any soil that may be binding the roots together? Then, carefully,
replant with fresh potting soil.


It's a really bad idea. Why would you want to do that?

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

It's a really bad idea. Why would you want to do that?

Because I'm not omnipresent and potent. This, for me, is R & D. You test
all ideas.

It's good to see you back, schmuck.

-Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

"Bill Rose" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

It's a really bad idea. Why would you want to do that?

Because I'm not omnipresent and potent. This, for me, is R & D. You test
all ideas.

It's good to see you back, schmuck.

-Bill


Schmuck. It's obvious by just looking at seedling roots that they're not
going to withstand the kind of handling you're suggesting.

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Bill Rose" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

It's a really bad idea. Why would you want to do that?

Because I'm not omnipresent and potent. This, for me, is R & D. You test
all ideas.

It's good to see you back, schmuck.

-Bill


Schmuck. It's obvious by just looking at seedling roots that they're not
going to withstand the kind of handling you're suggesting.

Sometimes, often actually, just about always, when I'm loading up a
germination tray, especially when the seeds are the size of dust, I get
some migration of species to unintended cells. Other times, I put
multiple seeds in a cell just to make sure that I get a plant in the
cell and my planting stays on schedule, then as quick as you can
say,"Bob's your uncle", I have half a dozen plants in one cell:( In
this unhappy eventualities, I usually have to make a choice of which
plant to keep and which to terminate. As Kay said, handling the stems is
a good way to turn it all to garbage, zooooh, I'm trying to figure out
an efficient way to separate the intertwining roots. As I said, I'm
still in R&D. Still a student and, I need to ask stupid questions. It
comes with the territory.

Another thing I can't figure out is why, sometimes the same seeds will
practically leap out of the tray when they germinates. Other times, it's
like a cold wind blowing through a desolate landscape and then sometimes
you get these little lilliputian midget mutants of a plant that don't do
anything as if they expect you to hit them with a hammer at any second.

Oh, little mysteries of life.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)