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Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
Hi everyone,
Heard it on the radio today that neem is a great organic pesticide that can be used against Japanese beetle. I have never heard of neem before and had to run a small search on the Net. First thing that caught my attention in the Wikipedia article about neem is that it is only effective against the pests that actually digest it via the sprayed plant tissue and it suggests that some bugs (ladybugs for ex), among other insects are pretty much immune. My greatest interest is in whether or not Japanese beetle would be affected - we've been hit really hard by them in the past. So, does anyone in this respectable group have a real life experience using neem as a pesticide? Could you please post your observations, especially if they include the japanese beetle? Where do people buy neem and in what form for garden use, anyways? Thanks! D~ ------------------------------------- ##-----------------------------------------------## Delivered via http://www.gardenalley.com/ Gardening Online Community Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup - rec.gardens - 31445 messages and counting! ##-----------------------------------------------## |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
In article ,
(DA) wrote: Hi everyone, Heard it on the radio today that neem is a great organic pesticide that can be used against Japanese beetle. I have never heard of neem before and had to run a small search on the Net. First thing that caught my attention in the Wikipedia article about neem is that it is only effective against the pests that actually digest it via the sprayed plant tissue and it suggests that some bugs (ladybugs for ex), among other insects are pretty much immune. My greatest interest is in whether or not Japanese beetle would be affected - we've been hit really hard by them in the past. So, does anyone in this respectable group have a real life experience using neem as a pesticide? Could you please post your observations, especially if they include the japanese beetle? Where do people buy neem and in what form for garden use, anyways? Thanks! D~ Not useful for Japanese beetles. Here's my article on neem, including the facts on the phony claim to kill Japanese beetles: http://www.paghat.com/neemworship.html Essentially, if you drenched an area with neem on a very regular basis that made the garden even more unpleasant for humans than for beetles, you'd kill a small percentage of larvae, none of the breeding adults, and you MIGHT slightly lower the overall fertility rate. You'd lose more beneficial insects than harmful, including those that would've kept many other potential problems in check, so that other garden illnesses will arise. Plus you'd get the same effect using any horiticultural oil, there's nothing special about neem to kill any insect other than by drowning them, unless an actual pesticide has been added to the oil, which is what some commercial formulations do (adding pyrethrin or azadirachtin, which kill lots of beneficial insects, a few harmful ones, not much effect on Japanese beetles per se). The only serious organic treatment is bacillus. It has to be used very narrowly as instructed and it takes three years to work, but once agarden is thoroughly innoculated, there'll never be japanese beetles there again, never another need to fight them. So it's worth going the slow but certain route. -paghat the ratgirl -- visit my temperate gardening website: http://www.paghat.com.html visit my film reviews webiste: http://www.weirdwildrealm.com |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
In article ,
John Bachman wrote: On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 23:28:11 -0800, (paghat) wrote: In article , (DA) wrote: Hi everyone, Heard it on the radio today that neem is a great organic pesticide that can be used against Japanese beetle. I have never heard of neem before and had to run a small search on the Net. First thing that caught my attention in the Wikipedia article about neem is that it is only effective against the pests that actually digest it via the sprayed plant tissue and it suggests that some bugs (ladybugs for ex), among other insects are pretty much immune. My greatest interest is in whether or not Japanese beetle would be affected - we've been hit really hard by them in the past. So, does anyone in this respectable group have a real life experience using neem as a pesticide? Could you please post your observations, especially if they include the japanese beetle? Where do people buy neem and in what form for garden use, anyways? There are other organic products that specifically target JB, Milky Spore being the most effective. Apply as directly to the soil and the MS bacterria attack JB, and only JB, larva. Eliminate the larva and you eliminate JB adults raised on your property. There will still be adult JBs fly in from your neighbor's yard but generally they move into travel mode when looking for mates, not a meal so little damage ensues from them. Milky Spore does take a year or two to completely inoculate your soil but is very effective. I have applied to about 2 acres of yard and mini-farm and have very little JB problems. John Thanks! D~ Not useful for Japanese beetles. Here's my article on neem, including the facts on the phony claim to kill Japanese beetles: http://www.paghat.com/neemworship.html Essentially, if you drenched an area with neem on a very regular basis that made the garden even more unpleasant for humans than for beetles, you'd kill a small percentage of larvae, none of the breeding adults, and you MIGHT slightly lower the overall fertility rate. You'd lose more beneficial insects than harmful, including those that would've kept many other potential problems in check, so that other garden illnesses will arise. Plus you'd get the same effect using any horiticultural oil, there's nothing special about neem to kill any insect other than by drowning them, unless an actual pesticide has been added to the oil, which is what some commercial formulations do (adding pyrethrin or azadirachtin, which kill lots of beneficial insects, a few harmful ones, not much effect on Japanese beetles per se). The only serious organic treatment is bacillus. It has to be used very narrowly as instructed and it takes three years to work, but once agarden is thoroughly innoculated, there'll never be japanese beetles there again, never another need to fight them. So it's worth going the slow but certain route. -paghat the ratgirl John, what is this MS bacillus of which you speak? I am only familiar with bacillus thuringiensis as an insecticide. -- Billy Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/ |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
Billy wrote in
ct.net.au: John, what is this MS bacillus of which you speak? I am only familiar with bacillus thuringiensis as an insecticide. not John, but Milky Spore is Bacillus popillae. Bacillus thuringiesis is one of a large family where different types work better on certain insects. Bt kills caterpillers (unfortunately it's not selective which caterpillers). Bti (Bt israeliensis) kills mosquito larvae. lee -- Last night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
In article
, Billy wrote: John, what is this MS bacillus of which you speak? I am only familiar with bacillus thuringiensis as an insecticide. Never mind. Google is my friend;-) Salmonella typhimurium 395 MS. -- Bush Behind Bars Billy http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
In article ,
enigma wrote: Billy wrote in ct.net.au: John, what is this MS bacillus of which you speak? I am only familiar with bacillus thuringiensis as an insecticide. not John, but Milky Spore is Bacillus popillae. Bacillus thuringiesis is one of a large family where different types work better on certain insects. Bt kills caterpillers (unfortunately it's not selective which caterpillers). Bti (Bt israeliensis) kills mosquito larvae. lee Thanks Lee. -- Billy Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/ |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
enigma wrote: not John, but Milky Spore is Bacillus popillae. Bacillus thuringiesis is one of a large family where different types work better on certain insects. Bt kills caterpillers (unfortunately it's not selective which caterpillers). Bti (Bt israeliensis) kills mosquito larvae. lee Thank you for your responses, guys. I am sure glad I have asked the question here. The guy on the radio sounded very convincing it would have worked and I would have wasted time and money. Anyways, I am getting a sense that getting rid of japanese beetle and instant gratification are not to be used in one sentence. Still, I guess, I am not really grasping the concept of trying to kill grubs of a beetle that can fly. What exactly would prevent them to fly over from some nearby property? I think this is exactly what happened he until we planted roses, there were no JBs to speak of. Then they simply gathered for the treat and decided to stay... Anyways, are the claims of getting rid of JB for good based on the assumption that spores stay in the ground once introduced and will kill the next spring's grubs, too? Thanks for your comment, guys, keep them coming. I think I am on the right track to at least keeping JB infestation in check if not getting rid of them completely. D~ ##-----------------------------------------------## Delivered via http://www.gardenalley.com/ Gardening Online Community Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup - rec.gardens - 31466 messages and counting! ##-----------------------------------------------## |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
On Mar 9, 4:10 pm, enigma wrote:
Billy wrote ct.net.au: John, what is this MS bacillus of which you speak? I am only familiar with bacillus thuringiensis as an insecticide. not John, but Milky Spore is Bacillus popillae. Bacillus thuringiesis is one of a large family where different types work better on certain insects. Bt kills caterpillers (unfortunately it's not selective which caterpillers). Bti (Bt israeliensis) kills mosquito larvae. BtI is also recommended against fungus gnat larvae. |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
In article
, Father Haskell wrote: On Mar 9, 4:10 pm, enigma wrote: Billy wrote ct.net.au: John, what is this MS bacillus of which you speak? I am only familiar with bacillus thuringiensis as an insecticide. not John, but Milky Spore is Bacillus popillae. Bacillus thuringiesis is one of a large family where different types work better on certain insects. Bt kills caterpillers (unfortunately it's not selective which caterpillers). Bti (Bt israeliensis) kills mosquito larvae. BtI is also recommended against fungus gnat larvae. Bacillus thuringiensis var. israelensis (not zionistis), sold under the trade name of Gnatrol, is most effective against the young first instar larvae. -- Billy Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/ |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
In article ,
(DA) wrote: enigma wrote: not John, but Milky Spore is Bacillus popillae. Bacillus thuringiesis is one of a large family where different types work better on certain insects. Bt kills caterpillers (unfortunately it's not selective which caterpillers). Bti (Bt israeliensis) kills mosquito larvae. lee Thank you for your responses, guys. I am sure glad I have asked the question here. The guy on the radio sounded very convincing it would have worked and I would have wasted time and money. Anyways, I am getting a sense that getting rid of japanese beetle and instant gratification are not to be used in one sentence. Still, I guess, I am not really grasping the concept of trying to kill grubs of a beetle that can fly. What exactly would prevent them to fly over from some nearby property? I think this is exactly what happened he until we planted roses, there were no JBs to speak of. Then they simply gathered for the treat and decided to stay... Anyways, are the claims of getting rid of JB for good based on the assumption that spores stay in the ground once introduced and will kill the next spring's grubs, too? Thanks for your comment, guys, keep them coming. I think I am on the right track to at least keeping JB infestation in check if not getting rid of them completely. D~ http://www.hort.uconn.edu/IPM/greenh.../fngnatser.htm Bacillus thuringiensis var. israelensis, sold under the trade name of Gnatrol, is most effective against the young first instar larvae. The bacteria must be ingested by the larva, after which a toxic protein crystal is released into the insect's gut. Larvae stop feeding and die. Gnatrol is only toxic to larvae for two days. Repeat applications, i.e. two or three applications at high rates, may be needed to provide effective control. -- Billy Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/ |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
Billy wrote in
ct.net.au: http://www.hort.uconn.edu/IPM/greenh.../fngnatser.htm how'd we get to fuhgus gnats from Japanese beetles? Bacillus thuringiensis var. israelensis, sold under the trade name of Gnatrol, is most effective against the young first instar larvae. The bacteria must be ingested by the larva, after which a toxic protein crystal is released into the insect's gut. Larvae stop feeding and die. Gnatrol is only toxic to larvae for two days. Repeat applications, i.e. two or three applications at high rates, may be needed to provide effective control. well, i'll keep this in mind for when i get a greenhouse. we currently use Bti in mosquito dunks in the stock tanks. supposedly they kill blackfly larvae as well as mosquito larvae, but i don't know that i quite believe that claim. blackflies breed in running water, not standing water, so how would one make sure they're exposed to the Bti? at any rate, i'm hoping this doesn't confuse the OP because Milky Spore (which is not Bti), once you get it into the soil, kills the Japanese beetle larvae for 10+ years before you need to reapply. if i was the OP & thought i'd just learned that Milky Spore only lasts a few weeks, then saw that a 50 pound drum costs $1300... i'd give up right there! but if you consider that that 50 pound drum covers over 5 acres & protects for over 10 *years*, it's actually very reasonable. BTW, it also kills the larvae of Oriental beetles, which are even *nastier* than Japanese beetles. they eat the leaves off your plants during the day & at night they burrow under the plants & eat the roots. lee -- Last night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
In article ,
enigma wrote: Billy wrote in ct.net.au: http://www.hort.uconn.edu/IPM/greenh.../fngnatser.htm how'd we get to fuhgus gnats from Japanese beetles? Bacillus thuringiensis var. israelensis, sold under the trade name of Gnatrol, is most effective against the young first instar larvae. The bacteria must be ingested by the larva, after which a toxic protein crystal is released into the insect's gut. Larvae stop feeding and die. Gnatrol is only toxic to larvae for two days. Repeat applications, i.e. two or three applications at high rates, may be needed to provide effective control. well, i'll keep this in mind for when i get a greenhouse. we currently use Bti in mosquito dunks in the stock tanks. supposedly they kill blackfly larvae as well as mosquito larvae, but i don't know that i quite believe that claim. blackflies breed in running water, not standing water, so how would one make sure they're exposed to the Bti? at any rate, i'm hoping this doesn't confuse the OP because Milky Spore (which is not Bti), once you get it into the soil, kills the Japanese beetle larvae for 10+ years before you need to reapply. if i was the OP & thought i'd just learned that Milky Spore only lasts a few weeks, then saw that a 50 pound drum costs $1300... i'd give up right there! but if you consider that that 50 pound drum covers over 5 acres & protects for over 10 *years*, it's actually very reasonable. BTW, it also kills the larvae of Oriental beetles, which are even *nastier* than Japanese beetles. they eat the leaves off your plants during the day & at night they burrow under the plants & eat the roots. lee Going just a tad OT, can you recommend any introductory book for spinning and weaving? -- Billy Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/ |
spinning: was Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
Billy wrote in
ct.net.au: Going just a tad OT, can you recommend any introductory book for spinning and weaving? i took a class, but i've been usingTeach Yourself Visually: Handspinning by Judith MacKenzie McCuin. it covers both hand spindles & wheels. hint: if you decide to start with a hand spindle, get one that has a bit of weight but not too heavy. what type of weaving are you interested in? loom? tapestry? fingerweaving (sometimes called braids)? inkle loom? i can give you better suggestions if i know what you want to do. lee -- Last night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. |
Neem as pesticide - how effective against Japanese beetle?
In article
, Billy wrote: Going just a tad OT, can you recommend any introductory book for spinning and weaving? Jeff Herton's book will help: http://www.readerviews.com/InterviewHerten.html -paghat the ratgirl -- visit my temperate gardening website: http://www.paghat.com.html visit my film reviews webiste: http://www.weirdwildrealm.com |
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