David E. Ross wrote:
On 4/20/2008 4:45 PM, Charlie wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:09:09 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I'm no gardener but have had the unfortunate task of tending my
father's grave. I planted some daff bulbs last autumn and had a
beautiful display but the flowers are now dying off. I shall soon be
re-planting with summer plants. Should I save the daff bulbs for
next year, or shoud they be discarded and buy new ones again in the
autumn?

Just leave 'em be. They will be back, year after year.

I'm sorry for your loss, whenever it was.

Care
Charlie

Daffodills are quite hardy. They will survive most winters, even with
snow and freezing weather. Just plant summer annuals over them
without digging them up.

The one problem you might have is if the cemetary maintenance crew
mows over your father's grave. Cutting the daffodill foliage before
it turns yellow and dies will weaken the bulbs. If this happens, you
might as well dig up the bulbs and trash them.

I thought you could dig them up, with tops, store in a paper bag in the dark
until tops die off, and replant next year? Or am I getting confused?
--
Pete C
London UK

Pete C wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
On 4/20/2008 4:45 PM, Charlie wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:09:09 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I'm no gardener but have had the unfortunate task of tending my
father's grave. I planted some daff bulbs last autumn and had a
beautiful display but the flowers are now dying off. I shall soon be
re-planting with summer plants. Should I save the daff bulbs for
next year, or shoud they be discarded and buy new ones again in the
autumn?
Just leave 'em be. They will be back, year after year.

I'm sorry for your loss, whenever it was.

Care
Charlie
Daffodills are quite hardy. They will survive most winters, even with
snow and freezing weather. Just plant summer annuals over them
without digging them up.

The one problem you might have is if the cemetary maintenance crew
mows over your father's grave. Cutting the daffodill foliage before
it turns yellow and dies will weaken the bulbs. If this happens, you
might as well dig up the bulbs and trash them.

I thought you could dig them up, with tops, store in a paper bag in the dark
until tops die off, and replant next year? Or am I getting confused?

Probably you are confused. It is necessary for the plants to remain in a
normal growing state with roots and foliage intact so that they can support
bulb growth which is what makes the new plants and flowers the next Spring.
As soon as the plant has finished this process the foliage dies back and
all that remains is the bulb (or bulbs) under the ground. Typically one can
plant annuals around the remaining daffodil foliage to make it less obvious
but even if the bulb is to be dug and re-planted in the Autumn it is
necessary for the plant to go through its "recharging" routine to produce
healthy bulbs. I normally clip the spent flower stem right after the flower
fades to make the plants look less ragged but I would never remove any
undiseased leaves.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

John McGaw wrote:
Pete C wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
On 4/20/2008 4:45 PM, Charlie wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:09:09 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I'm no gardener but have had the unfortunate task of tending my
father's grave. I planted some daff bulbs last autumn and had a
beautiful display but the flowers are now dying off. I shall soon
be re-planting with summer plants. Should I save the daff bulbs
for next year, or shoud they be discarded and buy new ones again
in the autumn?
Just leave 'em be. They will be back, year after year.

I'm sorry for your loss, whenever it was.

Care
Charlie
Daffodills are quite hardy. They will survive most winters, even
with snow and freezing weather. Just plant summer annuals over them
without digging them up.

The one problem you might have is if the cemetary maintenance crew
mows over your father's grave. Cutting the daffodill foliage before
it turns yellow and dies will weaken the bulbs. If this happens,
you might as well dig up the bulbs and trash them.

I thought you could dig them up, with tops, store in a paper bag in
the dark until tops die off, and replant next year? Or am I getting
confused?

Probably you are confused. It is necessary for the plants to remain
in a normal growing state with roots and foliage intact so that they
can support bulb growth which is what makes the new plants and
flowers the next Spring. As soon as the plant has finished this
process the foliage dies back and all that remains is the bulb (or
bulbs) under the ground. Typically one can plant annuals around the
remaining daffodil foliage to make it less obvious but even if the
bulb is to be dug and re-planted in the Autumn it is necessary for
the plant to go through its "recharging" routine to produce healthy
bulbs. I normally clip the spent flower stem right after the flower
fades to make the plants look less ragged but I would never remove
any undiseased leaves.

Thank you John
--
Pete C
London UK

John McGaw said:

Pete C wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
On 4/20/2008 4:45 PM, Charlie wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:09:09 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I'm no gardener but have had the unfortunate task of tending my
father's grave. I planted some daff bulbs last autumn and had a
beautiful display but the flowers are now dying off. I shall soon be
re-planting with summer plants. Should I save the daff bulbs for
next year, or shoud they be discarded and buy new ones again in the
autumn?
Just leave 'em be. They will be back, year after year.

I'm sorry for your loss, whenever it was.

Care
Charlie
Daffodills are quite hardy. They will survive most winters, even with
snow and freezing weather. Just plant summer annuals over them
without digging them up.

The one problem you might have is if the cemetary maintenance crew
mows over your father's grave. Cutting the daffodill foliage before
it turns yellow and dies will weaken the bulbs. If this happens, you
might as well dig up the bulbs and trash them.

I thought you could dig them up, with tops, store in a paper bag in the dark
until tops die off, and replant next year? Or am I getting confused?

Probably you are confused.

No, that would be you. =) They will do fine, and even thrive, when done as
Pete C questioned. We dug up thousands last spring, after they finished
blooming. Laid them all out under an overhang to finish yellowing/drying,
cut the foilage off, and stored them in bulb crates under a bench at work.
I brought home several hundred last fall, and /every one/ of them is still
in full bloom (3 weeks now). The rest, re-planted at work, are also
thriving.

It is necessary for the plants to remain in a
normal growing state with roots and foliage intact so that they can support
bulb growth which is what makes the new plants and flowers the next Spring.


The roots, at that time, are playing a very minor role. The food is all
being sent back down to the bulb for storage. It's being made in the
leaves, not the roots.

As soon as the plant has finished this process the foliage dies back and
all that remains is the bulb (or bulbs) under the ground. Typically one can
plant annuals around the remaining daffodil foliage to make it less obvious
but even if the bulb is to be dug and re-planted in the Autumn it is
necessary for the plant to go through its "recharging" routine to produce
healthy bulbs. I normally clip the spent flower stem right after the flower
fades to make the plants look less ragged but I would never remove any
undiseased leaves.

And, they wouldn't be removed if dug up, intact. They'll still produce
food, and you don't have the ragged, yellowed foilage in the bed.

Yup, you can plant around them. You can also dig them up, just fine.

--

Eggs

Most books now say our sun is a star. But it still knows how to change back
into a sun in the daytime.

On 4/21/2008 3:07 PM, Eggs Zachtly wrote:
John McGaw said:

Pete C wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
On 4/20/2008 4:45 PM, Charlie wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:09:09 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I'm no gardener but have had the unfortunate task of tending my
father's grave. I planted some daff bulbs last autumn and had a
beautiful display but the flowers are now dying off. I shall soon be
re-planting with summer plants. Should I save the daff bulbs for
next year, or shoud they be discarded and buy new ones again in the
autumn?
Just leave 'em be. They will be back, year after year.

I'm sorry for your loss, whenever it was.

Care
Charlie
Daffodills are quite hardy. They will survive most winters, even with
snow and freezing weather. Just plant summer annuals over them
without digging them up.

The one problem you might have is if the cemetary maintenance crew
mows over your father's grave. Cutting the daffodill foliage before
it turns yellow and dies will weaken the bulbs. If this happens, you
might as well dig up the bulbs and trash them.
I thought you could dig them up, with tops, store in a paper bag in the dark
until tops die off, and replant next year? Or am I getting confused?
Probably you are confused.

No, that would be you. =) They will do fine, and even thrive, when done as
Pete C questioned. We dug up thousands last spring, after they finished
blooming. Laid them all out under an overhang to finish yellowing/drying,
cut the foilage off, and stored them in bulb crates under a bench at work.
I brought home several hundred last fall, and /every one/ of them is still
in full bloom (3 weeks now). The rest, re-planted at work, are also
thriving.

It is necessary for the plants to remain in a
normal growing state with roots and foliage intact so that they can support
bulb growth which is what makes the new plants and flowers the next Spring.


The roots, at that time, are playing a very minor role. The food is all
being sent back down to the bulb for storage. It's being made in the
leaves, not the roots.

As soon as the plant has finished this process the foliage dies back and
all that remains is the bulb (or bulbs) under the ground. Typically one can
plant annuals around the remaining daffodil foliage to make it less obvious
but even if the bulb is to be dug and re-planted in the Autumn it is
necessary for the plant to go through its "recharging" routine to produce
healthy bulbs. I normally clip the spent flower stem right after the flower
fades to make the plants look less ragged but I would never remove any
undiseased leaves.

And, they wouldn't be removed if dug up, intact. They'll still produce
food, and you don't have the ragged, yellowed foilage in the bed.

Yup, you can plant around them. You can also dig them up, just fine.


Perhaps in England (where the original poster apparently lives), roots
might not be important in allowing nutrients to migrate into the bulb.

In my climate, the relative humidity tends to be much lower (21% at
noon). Without roots supplying moisture, the leaves would prematurely
wilt and shrivel before they could complete their task. Also, leaving
the bulbs in the ground through the summer keeps them cool; summer
temperatures here often exceed 90F and even 100F.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at http://www.rossde.com/garden/

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
snip...
The roots, at that time, are playing a very minor role. The food is all
being sent back down to the bulb for storage. It's being made in the
leaves, not the roots.
snip...

Guess we'll just have to disagree. It is amazing that you would claim that
the plant's roots are "minor" given that this is the only way they absorb
water and nutrients. Sure, photosynthesis is happening in the leaves but
without water and soil nutrients nothing useful is going to be happening
since it doesn't operate on atmospheric C02 alone. I will remain with the
position that for best results the plants should stay exactly where they
are until the foliage dies back. It is a minor drawback since daffodils
don't hold onto their foliage all that long and can be easily screened from
view.

Granted, the plants are amazingly tough and might well survive the
treatment you describe but if it was the way to produce best-quality bulbs
I'd expect the big growers to be doing it that way to save time. The Dutch
growers would be able to put their new crop in the warehouses in April and
spend the rest of the year sunning themselves in Majorca.


--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

John McGaw said:

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
snip...
The roots, at that time, are playing a very minor role. The food is all
being sent back down to the bulb for storage. It's being made in the
leaves, not the roots.
snip...

Guess we'll just have to disagree.

No problem. I leave my bulbs at home in the ground, year round, cutting
yellowing foilage as it appears. A bit time-consuming (there are seveal
thousand bulbs), but the beds stay looking fairly fresh. My point was, it
*is* fine to dig the bulbs up, lay them in a cool place to finish, and then
remove the foilage. Planted that fall, they'll produce fine the following
spring.

It is amazing that you would claim that
the plant's roots are "minor" given that this is the only way they absorb
water and nutrients. Sure, photosynthesis is happening in the leaves but
without water and soil nutrients nothing useful is going to be happening
since it doesn't operate on atmospheric C02 alone.

When bulb foilage begins to yellow, the roots are /not/ taking in water. If
they're not taking in water, they're also *not* taking up nutrients. When
the bulb finishes flowering, the roots are done, and begin to die off, same
as the foilage. All food production is taking place above ground, and that
food is being sent to the bulb for dormancy survival, and the following
season's growth.


I will remain with the
position that for best results the plants should stay exactly where they
are until the foliage dies back. It is a minor drawback since daffodils
don't hold onto their foliage all that long and can be easily screened from
view.

Again, there's nothing wrong with that method. Pete C's question was of
digging them up (fine), storing them "in a paper bag in the dark until tops
die off" (BAD idea). Lose the paper bag, and it will work, with no
ill-effects.


Granted, the plants are amazingly tough and might well survive the
treatment you describe but if it was the way to produce best-quality bulbs
I'd expect the big growers to be doing it that way to save time. The Dutch
growers would be able to put their new crop in the warehouses in April and
spend the rest of the year sunning themselves in Majorca.

Having never visited a "big grower", much less one in Holland, I can't
comment on their production methods. Were you to ask one of them about the
inner-workings of a bulb, and just what happens during it's life-cycle, I
bet they'd tell you the same thing I stated above.
--

Eggs

Do Amish people get one phone call when arrested?

In article ,
Eggs Zachtly wrote:

John McGaw said:

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
snip...
The roots, at that time, are playing a very minor role. The food is all
being sent back down to the bulb for storage. It's being made in the
leaves, not the roots.
snip...

Guess we'll just have to disagree.

No problem. I leave my bulbs at home in the ground, year round, cutting
yellowing foilage as it appears. A bit time-consuming (there are seveal
thousand bulbs), but the beds stay looking fairly fresh. My point was, it
*is* fine to dig the bulbs up, lay them in a cool place to finish, and then
remove the foilage. Planted that fall, they'll produce fine the following
spring.

It is amazing that you would claim that
the plant's roots are "minor" given that this is the only way they absorb
water and nutrients. Sure, photosynthesis is happening in the leaves but
without water and soil nutrients nothing useful is going to be happening
since it doesn't operate on atmospheric C02 alone.

When bulb foilage begins to yellow, the roots are /not/ taking in water. If
they're not taking in water, they're also *not* taking up nutrients. When
the bulb finishes flowering, the roots are done, and begin to die off, same
as the foilage. All food production is taking place above ground, and that
food is being sent to the bulb for dormancy survival, and the following
season's growth.


I will remain with the
position that for best results the plants should stay exactly where they
are until the foliage dies back. It is a minor drawback since daffodils
don't hold onto their foliage all that long and can be easily screened from
view.

Again, there's nothing wrong with that method. Pete C's question was of
digging them up (fine), storing them "in a paper bag in the dark until tops
die off" (BAD idea). Lose the paper bag, and it will work, with no
ill-effects.


Granted, the plants are amazingly tough and might well survive the
treatment you describe but if it was the way to produce best-quality bulbs
I'd expect the big growers to be doing it that way to save time. The Dutch
growers would be able to put their new crop in the warehouses in April and
spend the rest of the year sunning themselves in Majorca.

Having never visited a "big grower", much less one in Holland, I can't
comment on their production methods. Were you to ask one of them about the
inner-workings of a bulb, and just what happens during it's life-cycle, I
bet they'd tell you the same thing I stated above.

Guess you guys know daffodils are toxic, Some bulbs mixed with young
onions would not be easy to discern not good. Sort of a text for
murder she wrote.

Standard Major Disclaimer.

So Charlie and Billy when shall we party?

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article ,
Eggs Zachtly wrote:

John McGaw said:

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
snip...
The roots, at that time, are playing a very minor role. The food is all
being sent back down to the bulb for storage. It's being made in the
leaves, not the roots.
snip...

Guess we'll just have to disagree.

No problem. I leave my bulbs at home in the ground, year round, cutting
yellowing foilage as it appears. A bit time-consuming (there are seveal
thousand bulbs), but the beds stay looking fairly fresh. My point was, it
*is* fine to dig the bulbs up, lay them in a cool place to finish, and then
remove the foilage. Planted that fall, they'll produce fine the following
spring.

It is amazing that you would claim that
the plant's roots are "minor" given that this is the only way they absorb
water and nutrients. Sure, photosynthesis is happening in the leaves but
without water and soil nutrients nothing useful is going to be happening
since it doesn't operate on atmospheric C02 alone.

When bulb foilage begins to yellow, the roots are /not/ taking in water. If
they're not taking in water, they're also *not* taking up nutrients. When
the bulb finishes flowering, the roots are done, and begin to die off, same
as the foilage. All food production is taking place above ground, and that
food is being sent to the bulb for dormancy survival, and the following
season's growth.


I will remain with the
position that for best results the plants should stay exactly where they
are until the foliage dies back. It is a minor drawback since daffodils
don't hold onto their foliage all that long and can be easily screened
from
view.

Again, there's nothing wrong with that method. Pete C's question was of
digging them up (fine), storing them "in a paper bag in the dark until tops
die off" (BAD idea). Lose the paper bag, and it will work, with no
ill-effects.


Granted, the plants are amazingly tough and might well survive the
treatment you describe but if it was the way to produce best-quality
bulbs
I'd expect the big growers to be doing it that way to save time. The
Dutch
growers would be able to put their new crop in the warehouses in April
and
spend the rest of the year sunning themselves in Majorca.

Having never visited a "big grower", much less one in Holland, I can't
comment on their production methods. Were you to ask one of them about the
inner-workings of a bulb, and just what happens during it's life-cycle, I
bet they'd tell you the same thing I stated above.

Guess you guys know daffodils are toxic, Some bulbs mixed with young
onions would not be easy to discern not good. Sort of a text for
murder she wrote.

Standard Major Disclaimer.

So Charlie and Billy when shall we party?

Bill

You're not bring the onion dip are ya? Other than that, just let me get
the cork out'en the bottle.
--

Billy

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7WBB0s...eature=related

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:00:22 -0400, Bill wrote:


So Charlie and Billy when shall we party?

Bill


Oh yeah......a garden party? Who brings the wine, who brings the
botanicals, who brings what????


Charlie

"People came from miles around, everyone was there
Yoko brought her walrus, there was magic in the air
'n' over in the corner, much to my surprise
Mr. Hughes hid in Dylan's shoes wearing his disguise"

"But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself"

~~Ricky

Grew up with Nelson's.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:00:22 -0400, Bill wrote:


So Charlie and Billy when shall we party?

Bill


Oh yeah......a garden party? Who brings the wine, who brings the
botanicals, who brings what????


Charlie

"People came from miles around, everyone was there
Yoko brought her walrus, there was magic in the air
'n' over in the corner, much to my surprise
Mr. Hughes hid in Dylan's shoes wearing his disguise"

"But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself"

~~Ricky

Hope you got down on "Earth Day". Down on your knees works for me to:-(
--

Billy

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7WBB0s...eature=related

On 4/22/2008 3:44 PM, Eggs Zachtly wrote:
John McGaw said:

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
snip...
The roots, at that time, are playing a very minor role. The food is all
being sent back down to the bulb for storage. It's being made in the
leaves, not the roots.
snip...

Guess we'll just have to disagree.

No problem. I leave my bulbs at home in the ground, year round, cutting
yellowing foilage as it appears. A bit time-consuming (there are seveal
thousand bulbs), but the beds stay looking fairly fresh. My point was, it
*is* fine to dig the bulbs up, lay them in a cool place to finish, and then
remove the foilage. Planted that fall, they'll produce fine the following
spring.

It is amazing that you would claim that
the plant's roots are "minor" given that this is the only way they absorb
water and nutrients. Sure, photosynthesis is happening in the leaves but
without water and soil nutrients nothing useful is going to be happening
since it doesn't operate on atmospheric C02 alone.

When bulb foilage begins to yellow, the roots are /not/ taking in water. If
they're not taking in water, they're also *not* taking up nutrients. When
the bulb finishes flowering, the roots are done, and begin to die off, same
as the foilage. All food production is taking place above ground, and that
food is being sent to the bulb for dormancy survival, and the following
season's growth.


I will remain with the
position that for best results the plants should stay exactly where they
are until the foliage dies back. It is a minor drawback since daffodils
don't hold onto their foliage all that long and can be easily screened from
view.

Again, there's nothing wrong with that method. Pete C's question was of
digging them up (fine), storing them "in a paper bag in the dark until tops
die off" (BAD idea). Lose the paper bag, and it will work, with no
ill-effects.

Granted, the plants are amazingly tough and might well survive the
treatment you describe but if it was the way to produce best-quality bulbs
I'd expect the big growers to be doing it that way to save time. The Dutch
growers would be able to put their new crop in the warehouses in April and
spend the rest of the year sunning themselves in Majorca.

Having never visited a "big grower", much less one in Holland, I can't
comment on their production methods. Were you to ask one of them about the
inner-workings of a bulb, and just what happens during it's life-cycle, I
bet they'd tell you the same thing I stated above.

In my garden, the narcissus foliage (both daffodils and their relatives)
remains green and vigorous for well more than a month after the flowers
have withered and faded. The leaves are still working, manufacturing
nutrients to rebuild the bulb. For this, they still need moisture as
well as nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and other plant nutrients from
the soil -- through the roots.

Only after the leaves start to yellow are the roots no longer important.
Digging the bulbs before then might leave bulbs that flower the next
year. But repeating this again in that next year might prevent the
bulbs from flowering a third year.

Sometimes, I do dig and divide the bulbs in my garden. I do this when
the foliage is not yellow but brown and dried. I immediately (same day)
replant the bulbs that I'm keeping. I have no interruption of blooming
with this practice.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at http://www.rossde.com/garden/

David E. Ross said:

On 4/22/2008 3:44 PM, Eggs Zachtly wrote:
John McGaw said:

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
snip...
The roots, at that time, are playing a very minor role. The food is all
being sent back down to the bulb for storage. It's being made in the
leaves, not the roots.
snip...

Guess we'll just have to disagree.

No problem. I leave my bulbs at home in the ground, year round, cutting
yellowing foilage as it appears. A bit time-consuming (there are seveal
thousand bulbs), but the beds stay looking fairly fresh. My point was, it
*is* fine to dig the bulbs up, lay them in a cool place to finish, and then
remove the foilage. Planted that fall, they'll produce fine the following
spring.

It is amazing that you would claim that
the plant's roots are "minor" given that this is the only way they absorb
water and nutrients. Sure, photosynthesis is happening in the leaves but
without water and soil nutrients nothing useful is going to be happening
since it doesn't operate on atmospheric C02 alone.

When bulb foilage begins to yellow, the roots are /not/ taking in water. If
they're not taking in water, they're also *not* taking up nutrients. When
the bulb finishes flowering, the roots are done, and begin to die off, same
as the foilage. All food production is taking place above ground, and that
food is being sent to the bulb for dormancy survival, and the following
season's growth.

I will remain with the
position that for best results the plants should stay exactly where they
are until the foliage dies back. It is a minor drawback since daffodils
don't hold onto their foliage all that long and can be easily screened from
view.

Again, there's nothing wrong with that method. Pete C's question was of
digging them up (fine), storing them "in a paper bag in the dark until tops
die off" (BAD idea). Lose the paper bag, and it will work, with no
ill-effects.

Granted, the plants are amazingly tough and might well survive the
treatment you describe but if it was the way to produce best-quality bulbs
I'd expect the big growers to be doing it that way to save time. The Dutch
growers would be able to put their new crop in the warehouses in April and
spend the rest of the year sunning themselves in Majorca.

Having never visited a "big grower", much less one in Holland, I can't
comment on their production methods. Were you to ask one of them about the
inner-workings of a bulb, and just what happens during it's life-cycle, I
bet they'd tell you the same thing I stated above.

In my garden, the narcissus foliage (both daffodils and their relatives)
remains green and vigorous for well more than a month after the flowers
have withered and faded. The leaves are still working, manufacturing
nutrients to rebuild the bulb. For this, they still need moisture as
well as nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and other plant nutrients from
the soil -- through the roots.

Only after the leaves start to yellow are the roots no longer important.

That's exactly what I said.

[rest snipped]

--

Eggs

-For every action, there is an equal and opposite government program.