| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine
due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters. As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked" in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so. TIA Paul |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote: residual Sevin http://www.backedbybayer.com/Bayer/C...er.nsf/id/EN_G olf_Sevin_Product_Information Bill -- Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
In article
, Bill wrote: In article , "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: residual Sevin http://www.backedbybayer.com/Bayer/C...er.nsf/id/EN_G olf_Sevin_Product_Information Bill http://www.afpmb.org/pubs/standardli...-0887_msds.pdf -- Billy Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:32:09 -0400, Bill wrote:
In article , "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: residual Sevin http://www.backedbybayer.com/Bayer/C...er.nsf/id/EN_G olf_Sevin_Product_Information Bill Hmmmm .."Sevin provides at least 2 weeks residual insect control from a single application" Thanks for the pointer. A month has passed. Two more weeks until they're ripe enough to pick. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try to wash/rinse the individual grape bunches with mild soapy water and use a paint brush to scrub with. I've had a bumper crop this year and would hate to loose all those pretty grapes. Then again getting poisoned over it doesn't sound very inviting. Do you suppose my idea of washing the bunches off to be a realistic solution ? = Paul = |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:04:49 -0700, Billy wrote:
In article , Bill wrote: In article , "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: residual Sevin http://www.backedbybayer.com/Bayer/C...er.nsf/id/EN_G olf_Sevin_Product_Information Bill http://www.afpmb.org/pubs/standardli...-0887_msds.pdf I failed to see mention of time limits or half life info listed at the above mentioned. Just first aid ( after the fact ) and prevetitive info. Or did I miss something ? Thanks for the pointer. = Paul = |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters. As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked" in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so. TIA Paul "IF" you get the fermentation to go dry (and only if you get it to go dry), my guess is that it will be safe to drink. That is because either the yeast will have metabolized the residue from the pesticide or will have incorporated it into their bodies (heavy metals). With that in mind, don't age the wine on the lees ;o) -- Billy Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:28:56 -0500, Jangchub wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters. As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked" in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so. TIA Paul I wouldn't eat them. I hadn't planned on eating them. I wish to make wine of them. I might try washing the binches with mild soapy water and see how they look. Hopefully I can get it (Sevin) gone... But if'n that don't do it, I will trash the grapes and not take a chance. = Paul = |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:54:56 -0700, Billy wrote:
In article , "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters. As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked" in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so. TIA Paul "IF" you get the fermentation to go dry (and only if you get it to go dry), my guess is that it will be safe to drink. That is because either the yeast will have metabolized the residue from the pesticide or will have incorporated it into their bodies (heavy metals). With that in mind, don't age the wine on the lees ;o) Good point .. Thank you. I will first try to wash/rinse the bunches individually. If that appears to rid the grapes of the residue then I will continue towards making the wine with your suggestions in mind. = Paul = |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:
�Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, Paul J. Dudley
wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still Hm. Maybe next time you'll read and follow the label directions? As far as the half life of Sevin (not seven): http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/carbaryl.htm Note that carbaryl is bound by organic matter. Personally, I wouldn't touch these grapes. |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:32:09 -0400, Bill wrote: In article , "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: residual Sevin http://www.backedbybayer.com/Bayer/C...er.nsf/id/EN_G olf_Sevin_Product_Information Bill Hmmmm .."Sevin provides at least 2 weeks residual insect control from a single application" Thanks for the pointer. A month has passed. Two more weeks until they're ripe enough to pick. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try to wash/rinse the individual grape bunches with mild soapy water and use a paint brush to scrub with. I've had a bumper crop this year and would hate to loose all those pretty grapes. Then again getting poisoned over it doesn't sound very inviting. Do you suppose my idea of washing the bunches off to be a realistic solution ? = Paul = No. Rinse any pesticide residue off and ferment dry. If it doesn't go dry, chuck it. -- Billy Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Paul J. Dudley wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:28:56 -0500, Jangchub wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters. As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked" in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so. TIA Paul I wouldn't eat them. I hadn't planned on eating them. I wish to make wine of them. I might try washing the binches with mild soapy water and see how they look. Hopefully I can get it (Sevin) gone... But if'n that don't do it, I will trash the grapes and not take a chance. = Paul = I believe the normal time before harvest is seven days - BUT - you put on a heavy dose AND on the fruit. I would call the manufacturer and ask them. You might also consider getting a back pack sprayer. In the future, consider Imidan. It is suppose to be more friendly to beneficals and it will kill the beatles. Also, the beatles do not eat the fruit so there really is no need to use the seven on them. I only use pesticides on the fruit if I see a heavy infestation of the Grape Berry Moths. The beatles eat the youngest shoots at the top of the canopy, not the older leaves or the fruit. |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:27:39 -0700, Sheldon wrote:
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did. If you don't have anything more constructive to offer than your sarcastic critisism, please keep it to yourself. = Paul = |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:22:28 -0500, Jangchub wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:55:20 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:28:56 -0500, Jangchub wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters. As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked" in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so. TIA Paul I wouldn't eat them. I hadn't planned on eating them. I wish to make wine of them. I might try washing the binches with mild soapy water and see how they look. Hopefully I can get it (Sevin) gone... But if'n that don't do it, I will trash the grapes and not take a chance. = Paul = Okay Paul, if it can systemically enter your skin and cause harmful reactions, don't you know it will also be systemic on the cell walls of grapes? Yes. But I was hoping that a 6 week duration might be long enough for the dust to break down in toxicity. My neighbor puts the stuff on all her greens ( collard, cabbage, turnip etc ). She pounces it on with an old nylon stocking. In fact, she does the same with her corn (at the silk end of the ear just as soon as soon as silk appears). I know one thing. I'll never use Sevin on my grapes again. I used to use a Pyrethrin based pesticide ( Tiger Brand ) but haven't seen it at the store this year. It breaks down rather quickly and most veggies can be ingested within a week after it's use. The Sevin was given to me and I tried it. I made a mistake. All I want to know now is ( and I thought that was clear ) has enough time passed to degrade the dust enough or would it still be hazardous ( ... and would washing them be of any use ) . In two weeks I will pick said grapes. I will attempt to wash the bunches by hand. Depending of that outcome, I will either prepare them for wine or if washing doesn't seem to remove the residue I will trash those bunches that won't wash clean. = Paul = |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote in message Okay Paul, if it can systemically enter your skin and cause harmful reactions, don't you know it will also be systemic on the cell walls of grapes? Yes. But I was hoping that a 6 week duration might be long enough for the dust to break down in toxicity. My neighbor puts the stuff on all her greens ( collard, cabbage, turnip etc ). She pounces it on with an old nylon stocking. In fact, she does the same with her corn (at the silk end of the ear just as soon as soon as silk appears). You got to be kidding. Have people still not learned to have more respect for the environment and themselves? I know one thing. I'll never use Sevin on my grapes again. I used to use a Pyrethrin based pesticide ( Tiger Brand ) but haven't seen it at the store this year. It breaks down rather quickly and most veggies can be ingested within a week after it's use. The Sevin was given to me and I tried it. I made a mistake. All I want to know now is ( and I thought that was clear ) has enough time passed to degrade the dust enough or would it still be hazardous ( ... and would washing them be of any use ) . In two weeks I will pick said grapes. I will attempt to wash the bunches by hand. Depending of that outcome, I will either prepare them for wine or if washing doesn't seem to remove the residue I will trash those bunches that won't wash clean. As someone else pointed out, the grapes will have absorbed the Sevin. No way would I ever eat them or use them in wine. Sounds like that was a really expensive gift you got. Japanese beetles are easily knocked into a bowl of water to drown and sure when they're at peak you have to do it every day but it still beats poison. |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:24:13 -0500, Jangchub wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:34:46 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:27:39 -0700, Sheldon wrote: "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did. If you don't have anything more constructive to offer than your sarcastic critisism, please keep it to yourself. = Paul = Your girlfriends father is a moron. Gee Vic, so critical.. Just let it rest. Take a friggin' midolPMS or two. Ima "The good Lord ruined some perfectly good assholes when he put teeth in some peoples heads" |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, Paul J. Dudley wrote:
Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters. As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked" in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so. TIA Paul Ok.. My neighbor uses Sevin dust all the time and swears by it. I just paid her a visit to see if she had any and she has a bag of GardenTech Sevin-5 - Ready to use 5% dust. Reading the instructions on the back shows that the preharvest interval (number of days between last application and harvest) for grapes is 7 days. I will find out what brand/strength was given to me. In the meantime I will write to GardenTech to see what they have to say and will post their advice. = Paul = |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Paul J. Dudley wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:22:28 -0500, Jangchub wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:55:20 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:28:56 -0500, Jangchub wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters. As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked" in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so. TIA Paul I wouldn't eat them. I hadn't planned on eating them. I wish to make wine of them. I might try washing the binches with mild soapy water and see how they look. Hopefully I can get it (Sevin) gone... But if'n that don't do it, I will trash the grapes and not take a chance. = Paul = Okay Paul, if it can systemically enter your skin and cause harmful reactions, don't you know it will also be systemic on the cell walls of grapes? Yes. But I was hoping that a 6 week duration might be long enough for the dust to break down in toxicity. My neighbor puts the stuff on all her greens ( collard, cabbage, turnip etc ). She pounces it on with an old nylon stocking. In fact, she does the same with her corn (at the silk end of the ear just as soon as soon as silk appears). I know one thing. I'll never use Sevin on my grapes again. Don't ever say never. A lot if not most of the vineyards around here (Northern Virginia / Central Maryland Area - including other areas in the Mid Atlantic) use Sevin on their vineyards. Most commercial growers apply with an air blast sprayer so it goes EVERYWHERE. The concentration you used sounds excessive. I still recommend you contact the manufacturer and see what they say. I would still say you can use it (the sevin you mix with water) and spray the top of your canopy with a back pack sprayer. What kind of grapes are you growing and where do you live? The earliest any grapes are ready for harvest around here are some of the whites and some of them are ready around the 2nd week in September. The reds usually are harvested around the end of September with Merlot being the first. The Cabernet Sauvignon hang until mid to late October. I am saying all this because you may have a variety than can hang longer and thus let nature wash off some of the residue. I used to use a Pyrethrin based pesticide ( Tiger Brand ) but haven't seen it at the store this year. It breaks down rather quickly and most veggies can be ingested within a week after it's use. The Sevin was given to me and I tried it. I made a mistake. All I want to know now is ( and I thought that was clear ) has enough time passed to degrade the dust enough or would it still be hazardous ( ... and would washing them be of any use ) . In two weeks I will pick said grapes. I will attempt to wash the bunches by hand. Depending of that outcome, I will either prepare them for wine or if washing doesn't seem to remove the residue I will trash those bunches that won't wash clean. = Paul = There is one other option. You can go ahead and harvest, crush and make your wine and send it out to a lab and have them analyze it for you. They may even be able to tell you in advance what they would recommend without even testing it and charging you. Virginia Tech has a enology program and a lab. You may want to give them a call and state your problem. http://www.fst.vt.edu/extension/enology/index.html |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
frinjdwelr wrote:
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote in message Okay Paul, if it can systemically enter your skin and cause harmful reactions, don't you know it will also be systemic on the cell walls of grapes? Yes. But I was hoping that a 6 week duration might be long enough for the dust to break down in toxicity. My neighbor puts the stuff on all her greens ( collard, cabbage, turnip etc ). She pounces it on with an old nylon stocking. In fact, she does the same with her corn (at the silk end of the ear just as soon as soon as silk appears). You got to be kidding. Have people still not learned to have more respect for the environment and themselves? I know one thing. I'll never use Sevin on my grapes again. I used to use a Pyrethrin based pesticide ( Tiger Brand ) but haven't seen it at the store this year. It breaks down rather quickly and most veggies can be ingested within a week after it's use. The Sevin was given to me and I tried it. I made a mistake. All I want to know now is ( and I thought that was clear ) has enough time passed to degrade the dust enough or would it still be hazardous ( ... and would washing them be of any use ) . In two weeks I will pick said grapes. I will attempt to wash the bunches by hand. Depending of that outcome, I will either prepare them for wine or if washing doesn't seem to remove the residue I will trash those bunches that won't wash clean. As someone else pointed out, the grapes will have absorbed the Sevin. No way would I ever eat them or use them in wine. Unless you never drink wine, there is a VERY high probability that you have drunk wine that was grown using Sevin or Carbaryl 80 WP (liquid Sevin) Sounds like that was a really expensive gift you got. Japanese beetles are easily knocked into a bowl of water to drown and sure when they're at peak you have to do it every day but it still beats poison. I have a backyard vineyard of 110 vines. I will give you a glass of wine each time you come out and drown them for me :-). I know a lot of commercial vineyards around here that will make you the same offer. |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did. You'll probably take this as more sarcastic criticism, but stories like this are why I'm not sure most people should be allowed to use other than a flyswatter as a pesticide. You accepted an unlabeled jar of unknown chemical of unknown concentration, with no instructions, and you didn't know how to apply it. How do you know it was carbaryl, and not, say, Paris green? Or maybe one of the herbicides? Or flour? Some day, a stunt like this is going to bite you badly. This might be that. |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Kay Lancaster wrote:
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did. You'll probably take this as more sarcastic criticism, but stories like this are why I'm not sure most people should be allowed to use other than a flyswatter as a pesticide. You accepted an unlabeled jar of unknown chemical of unknown concentration, with no instructions, and you didn't know how to apply it. How do you know it was carbaryl, and not, say, Paris green? Or maybe one of the herbicides? Or flour? Some day, a stunt like this is going to bite you badly. This might be that. Why don't you offer constructive advice instead of bashing. I would be willing to bet YOU are equally guilty of being ignorant on a specific topic equally as hazardous or even more so. |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Charlie wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:34:46 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:27:39 -0700, Sheldon wrote: "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did. If you don't have anything more constructive to offer than your sarcastic critisism, please keep it to yourself. = Paul = Sheesh.....besides poisoning our world, you are too effing careless to effectively use even a sockpuppet, Ima Paul Dudley Goodguy. I'm sure as hell glad you aren't my neighbor, Poisoner of Bees, Spiders, Butterflies and Other Helpful and Harmless Living Creatures.....such as your Neighbors!! Charlie Get a life, Charlie. Offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice or join the ranks of the "holier than thou" For example, there are a LOT of bee keepers who use chemicals every bit as risky as the OP used. Has ANY one of you doom and gloomers ever given the advice such as CONTACT YOUR LOCAL AGRICULTURE EXTENSION AGENT and ask for THEIR advice and opinion. Of course not. You have your own agenda. |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
In article , Charlie wrote:
Hmmm....I wonder how wine was produced before the advent of carbaryl? It was pretty good when they used amphoras and fumarias. But then they severed the wine in these very pretty lead glazed cups and a Gothic night descended on Europe. Things (flavor) started looking up again in the mid-1600s when cork stoppers came into use. In the mean, time beer and wine saved Europe from the main diseases of ground water. The same function that tea served in the East. Paul should check with the nearest ag consultant but my understanding is that nothing harmful to man can survive fermentation. All the same, you've been a naughty boy Paul. I know it wasn't your intent to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization (such as it is). You've got to be careful about unintended consequences. See that this doesn't happen again. -- Billy Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
In article ,
Jangchub wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:32:20 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote: really expensive gift you got. Japanese beetles are easily knocked into a bowl of water to drown and sure when they're at peak you have to do it every day but it still beats poison. I have a backyard vineyard of 110 vines. I will give you a glass of wine each time you come out and drown them for me :-). I know a lot of frinjdwelr wrote: "Paul J. Dudley" wrote in message Okay Paul, if it can systemically enter your skin and cause harmful reactions, don't you know it will also be systemic on the cell walls of grapes? Yes. But I was hoping that a 6 week duration might be long enough for the dust to break down in toxicity. My neighbor puts the stuff on all her greens ( collard, cabbage, turnip etc ). She pounces it on with an old nylon stocking. In fact, she does the Unless you never drink wine, there is a VERY high probability that you have drunk wine that was grown using Sevin or Carbaryl 80 WP (liquid Sevin) Sounds like that was a commercial vineyards around here that will make you the same offer. Gallo wine is and has been a completely certified organic product for decades. Eeeeeh. The good news: Organic wine is a growing trend. Gallo, the largest U.S. winemaker with 33% market share, currently has 2,700 of its 9,000 total acreage organically certified. Bad news: Gallo buys 2/3 of California grapes, mostly from the bulk wine area of the "Central Vally". Most Gallo wine isn't certified organic. Which isn't to say that it isn't drinkable. Most of it is simply "California" (anywhere in California) not necessarily one of the premium, cooler, wine growing regions like North Coast or Central Coast or Alexander Valley or Edna Valley. The last I checked (2003) the following local wineries were organic to some extent. The following wineries have been ranked as: all organic vineyard and no sulfites wines, all organic vineyard wines, bio-dynamic vineyards, and organic vineyards In order for a wine to qualify as organic, it must have just 10 parts (or fewer) per million sulfites. ----------------------------------------------- All organic vineyard and no sulfites wines H. Coturri & Sons LTD. Visits by appointment All wines made from organically-grown grapes, with no sulfites or other preservatives added. P.O. Box 396 6725 Enterprise Rd., Glen Ellen, CA 95442, Telephone: (707) 525-9126 Fax:(707)542-8039 e-mail: web site - http://www.coturriwinery.com/ Founded 1979 Wines: Albarello, Merlot, Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Sauvignon/Sangiovese, Sangiovese, Zinfandel Frey Vineyards All wines made from organically-grown grapes, with no sulfites added. Tastings by appointment only 14000 Tomki Rd, Redwood Valley CA 95470 Tel: 707.485.5177, 1.800.760.3739, Fax: 707.485.7875 web site - www.freywine.com Email: Tastings by appointment only. Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc,Gewurztraminer, Natural White, Blush, Sauvignon Blanc, Zinfandel, Cabernet Sauvignon, Syrah, Petite Sirah, Pinot, Merlot, Natural Red other wineries that produce wines without sulfites: Orleans Hill Vintners Association, P.O. Box 1254, Woodland, CA 95776 Tel: (530) 661-6538 FAX: (530) 661-1864 Founded 1980 La Rocca Vineyards, P.O. Box 541, Forest Ranch, CA 95942 Winery: 12360Doe Mill Rd., Forest Ranch, CA 95942 Tel: (530) 899-9463, (800) 808-9463, Fax: (530) 894-7268 e-mail: web site: www.aroccavineyards.com Founded 1984 Vinatura, 819 J Street, Arcata, CA 95501 Tel.: (707) 822-7272 Honeyrun 2309 Park Ave., Chico, CA 95928 Phone: (530) 345-6405 Fax: (530) 894-6639 The Organic Wine Works/Hallcrest Vineyards 379 Felton Empire Rd., Felton, CA 95018 Phone: (408) 335-4441 or (800) 699-9463 Fax: (408) 335-4450 Hours: Daily 11am-5:30pm ---------------------- All organic vineyard wines Fetzer Vineyards/Bonterra Vineyards All Bonterra wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes 13601 Eastside Rd., Hopland, CA 95449 Tel.: 800.846.8637 ext. 604, or 707.744.7600 ext. 604 e-mail from web site web site - http://www.fetzer.com/ Wines: Chardonnay, Cabernet Sauvignon, Syrah, Viognier, Sangiovese Frog's Leap All wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes P.O. Box 189, 8815 Conn Creek Road, Rutherford CA 94573 Tel: (800) 959-4704 or (707) 963-4704 Fax: (707) 963-0242 e-mail: web site - http://www.frogsleap.com/ Merlot, Zinfandel, Chardonnay, Leapfrogsmilch, Sauvignon Blanc, Cabernet Sauvignon, Rutherford (Cabernet Sauvignon/Cabernet Franc ) Lolonis Winery (No chemical pesticides since 1956.) All wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes Mailing Address: 1904 Olympic Blvd., Ste. 8A, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Winery: 1905 Road D, Redwood Valley, CA Tel: Sales & Mktg. Off. (510) 938-8066 Fax: (510) 938-8069 e-mail: web site - : www.lolonis.com/ Founded 1962 Wines: Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc, Viognier, Merlot, Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon, Valdiguie, Petit Syrah, Zinfandel, Cabernet Franc Madonna Estate Mont St. John All wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes 5400 Old Sonoma Rd. Napa, CA 94559 Tel: (707) 255-8864 Fax (707) 257-2778 e-mail: web site - http://www.montstjohn.com/ Founded 1977 Wines: Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Grigio, Johannisberg Riesling, Gewurztraminer and Muscat di Canelli Napa Wine Company All wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes Tastings are available by appointment P.O. Box 434 7830 - 40 St. Helena Hwy, Oakville, Ca 94562 Tel: (800) 848-9630 or (707) 944-1710 e-mail: . web site - http://www.napawineco.com/ Wines: Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Blanc, Cabernet Sauvignon Vigil Vineyards Estate Reserve Terra Vin is made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes 3340 Hwy. 128, Calistoga CA 94515 Tel: (707) 942-2900 e-mail: web site - http://www.vigilwine.com Wine: Estate Reserve Terra Vin (Zinfandel/Carignan/Refosco) Yorkville Cellars All wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes 5701 Highway 128 P.O. Box Three Yorkville (population 146), CA 95494 USA Tel: 707.894.9177 Fax: 707.894.2426 e-mail: web site - http://www.yorkville-cellars.com/ Wine: Sauvignon Blanc, Semillon, Eleanor of Aquitaine (Semillon/Sauvignon Blanc), Cabernet Franc, Malbec, Petit Verdot, Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon, Richard the Lion-Heart (Cabernet Franc/Malbec/Petit Verdot/Merlot/Cabernet Sauvignon) --------------------------------------------------------------- Bio-dynamic vineyards Benziger Family Winery and Everett Ridge Vineyard's are now using biodynamic farming practices. Benziger Family Winery at their Sonoma Mountain Estate Vineyards and all of Everett Ridge Vineyard's grapes. Everett Ridge Vineyards were certified organic from CCOF in 1999. Inquire at the wineries to determine if blending from non-organic vineyards occurred. Benziger Family Winery 1883 London Ranch Rd. Glen Ellen, CA 95442 (707) 935 - 3000 - voice (707) 935 - 3016 - fax e-mail: web site - http://www.benziger.com/index.shtml Everett Ridge Vineyards and Winery 435 West Dry Creek Road, Healdsburg CA 95448 Tel: 707-433-1637 Fax 707-433-7024 e-mail: web site - http://www.everettridge.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- Organic Vineyards The following wineries have, in total or in part, organic vineyards. This however does not mean that grapes from non-organic vineyards were not blended into their wines. Inquire at the wineries. Davis Bynum Winery 8075 Westside Road Healdsburg, California 95448 Tasting Room: (800) 826-1073 Tel: (707) 433-2611 Fax: (707) 433-4309 e-mail: web site - http://www.davisbynum.com/ Kenwood Vineyards P.O. Box 447 Kenwood, CA 95452 Tel: (707) 833-5891 Fax: (707) 833-1146 e-mail: web site - http://www.kenwoodvineyards.com/ WE'RE CERTIFIED ORGANIC! March 14, 1996 Three of Kenwood's vineyards are certified organic: Kenwood Estate Vineyard, Yulupa Vineyard, and Upper Weise Kenwood wines are bottled they are in a range of twenty-five to thirty-five parts per million free sulfites. -- Billy Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Jangchub wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:05:43 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Yes. But I was hoping that a 6 week duration might be long enough for the dust to break down in toxicity. My neighbor puts the stuff on all her greens ( collard, cabbage, turnip etc ). She pounces it on with an old nylon stocking. In fact, she does the same with her corn (at the silk end of the ear just as soon as soon as silk appears). I know one thing. I'll never use Sevin on my grapes again. I used to use a Pyrethrin based pesticide ( Tiger Brand ) but haven't seen it at the store this year. It breaks down rather quickly and most veggies can be ingested within a week after it's use. The Sevin was given to me and I tried it. I made a mistake. All I want to know now is ( and I thought that was clear ) has enough time passed to degrade the dust enough or would it still be hazardous ( ... and would washing them be of any use ) . In two weeks I will pick said grapes. I will attempt to wash the bunches by hand. Depending of that outcome, I will either prepare them for wine or if washing doesn't seem to remove the residue I will trash those bunches that won't wash clean. = Paul = There is no telling how long the active particles which entered the cells will persist. It's not a matter of washing off what you can see as dust or powder on the grapes themselves. Sevin can enter cells and if it were me, which it wouldn't be due to the nature of my no pesticides at all, I would not eat or use the grapes for anything. A little story: My neighbor had breast cancer and was a nine year survivor. She planted some Mountain Laurels and bag worms appeared. If she asked me first I'd have told her to use a simple pathogen called Bt. No harm to anything but the worms. However, her other neighbor who is an "agronimist" gave her Sevin in a pump up sprayer. She read no label, and had no idea about what she was spraying. She did not have her legs or arms covered and she started to burn terribly and she jumped into my pool to get rid of the stinging. Not one year later she relapsed and is now in stage four, metasticized breast cancer, spread to her sternum and the lining of her lungs. She goes to M.D. Anderson in Houston for treatment. She hangs on by a thread. Did the Sevin do it? I don't know. However, I will never use it. I'd give up the grapes and put them in the trash so not even animals can eat them. Your story about the neighbor getting burned has nothing to do with this issue. Your neighbor did not take the proper precautions to cover herself, and use a breathing mask. The issue here is one of retention of the chemical. You have given no evidence of your theory that Sevin penetrates the skin of the grape. I don't believe that. Waiting several weeks after application should elimanate the danger. The Sun and rain will burn and wash off the chemical, plus it will naturally lose it's toxicity. He should check with the manufacturers for confirmation, but I think he is ok with Sevin. He can wash the fruit as he said to be extra sure. Sherwin |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Sheldon wrote:
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote: �Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. I know people who apply Sevin that way. They do it because it is simpler than mixing up a batch for the sprayer. This is practical when you have a small plant or area to treat. Does it say on the label that applying the poweder is dangerous? Sherwin |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Jangchub wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:04:13 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote: Why don't you offer constructive advice instead of bashing. I would be willing to bet YOU are equally guilty of being ignorant on a specific topic equally as hazardous or even more so. It would seem an almost unanimous decision and opinion here that you chuck the grapes you applied a very toxic poison to. Sevin is advertised using lies, lies and more lies and people have been gardening for decades, some professionally, some avidly, some used to use these pesticides who no longer use them because they found out the truth about them over the years. Constructive as I can be without crawling on my hands and knees begging: Do NOT use these tainted grapes. Chalk it up to a big mistake, period. Yes, it's all a conspiracy. They are out to get us. Sherwin |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Charlie wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:34:46 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:27:39 -0700, Sheldon wrote: "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did. If you don't have anything more constructive to offer than your sarcastic critisism, please keep it to yourself. = Paul = Sheesh.....besides poisoning our world, you are too effing careless to effectively use even a sockpuppet, Ima Paul Dudley Goodguy. I'm sure as hell glad you aren't my neighbor, Poisoner of Bees, Spiders, Butterflies and Other Helpful and Harmless Living Creatures.....such as your Neighbors!! Charlie A good friend of mine raises bees on his urban property (fairly small) and has been spraying chemicals (wisely) for years. The bees don's seem to mind. Sherwin |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Jangchub wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:09:58 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote: Get a life, Charlie. Offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice or join the ranks of the "holier than thou" For example, there are a LOT of bee keepers who use chemicals every bit as risky as the OP used. Has ANY one of you doom and gloomers ever given the advice such as CONTACT YOUR LOCAL AGRICULTURE EXTENSION AGENT and ask for THEIR advice and opinion. Of course not. You have your own agenda. You mean the Land Grant Universities who are paid by Monsanto, Dow Elanco and Bayer to "test" and evaluate their latest carcinogens? NOT. Yep, they are all out to get us. Sherwin |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:04:13 -0400, Paul E. Lehmann
wrote: Kay Lancaster wrote: "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did. You'll probably take this as more sarcastic criticism, but stories like this are why I'm not sure most people should be allowed to use other than a flyswatter as a pesticide. You accepted an unlabeled jar of unknown chemical of unknown concentration, with no instructions, and you didn't know how to apply it. How do you know it was carbaryl, and not, say, Paris green? Or maybe one of the herbicides? Or flour? Some day, a stunt like this is going to bite you badly. This might be that. Why don't you offer constructive advice instead of bashing. I would be willing to bet YOU are equally guilty of being ignorant on a specific topic equally as hazardous or even more so. I did, Dippy, in my first post. If you're going to use a pesticide, make sure you follow the label directions. No label. Mason jar. This is playing chemical Russian Roulette. And it's a violation of US federal law. And if this wasn't in the US, then it's likely to have violated the laws of most other countries. Not to mention the law of common sense: you don't keep toxic materials in a food container. Especially not an unlabeled food container. Learn from your mistakes. If you can. |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Charlie wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:09:58 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote: Get a life, Charlie. Offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice or join the ranks of the "holier than thou" Yawn...OK, I will...join the ranks of the holier than thou, that is. And sorry to say, Paul, I'll post as I see fit, according to my "agenda" and not according to your demands. I also intend to keep my life and help my grandchildren keep theirs by doing what I can to keep morons from contaminating their food with poison. For example, there are a LOT of bee keepers who use chemicals every bit as risky as the OP used. Golly, I guess that makes it just hunky-dory okie-dokie to spread poison about the planet. Thanks for the heads up and the excellant argument justifying the use of such, Paul. Tell me, how do you feel about irradiated food? :-) I gots me all sorts of them kinds of questions I would like to ponder you head with, but I thinks I gots yer number already, son. ;-) Has ANY one of you doom and gloomers ever given the advice such as CONTACT YOUR LOCAL AGRICULTURE EXTENSION AGENT and ask for THEIR advice and opinion. "I'm from the gummint and I am here to help you".....uh huh, oh yeah! They do have some good plans for hogsheds, though. This statement of yours shows your lack of understanding or care about such things as three-legged frogs and declining bird populations and cancers and all sorts of funky shit that is happening on account of, well, you know. But I didn't get this information from monsatano or dow or bayer or any of their front guys, like the usda and fda and....so I guess it is just doom and gloom bullshit. Of course not. You have your own agenda. Yep, that agenda being the speaking out about the use of toxins that contribute to the toxically over-burdened planet and that contribute to the bodily toxic load we and our children and grandchildren must suffer on account of the ignorance and greed of people such as yourself and the sockpuppet and all the minions of the agrochemical cartel who advocate the use of toxins. Hmmm....I wonder how wine was produced before the advent of carbaryl? Doom, Doom, Doom....can you hear the drums, Paul? Charlie "You just caught me on a good night. I'm doing what I was made to do - and I've got a feeling I'm going to do it even better this time" - Captain Billy Tyne Charlie I gave the OP advice on how to obtain the answer to his question - NOT - NOT I repeat my personal opinion. To summarize I have said: 1) Contact the manufacturer. If they say it is safe that does not mean that one should stop there. If they say chuck the grapes then by all means do it. 2) I suggested calling the viticulture experts at Virginia tech and or making the wine and sending them a sample for testing. 3) Contacting the OP's local agriculture extension agent. YOU have given YOUR personal opinion based on nothing but shit house rumors and NOT science. |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Sherwin wrote in
: Jangchub wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:04:13 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote: Why don't you offer constructive advice instead of bashing. I would be willing to bet YOU are equally guilty of being ignorant on a specific topic equally as hazardous or even more so. It would seem an almost unanimous decision and opinion here that you chuck the grapes you applied a very toxic poison to. Sevin is advertised using lies, lies and more lies and people have been gardening for decades, some professionally, some avidly, some used to use these pesticides who no longer use them because they found out the truth about them over the years. Constructive as I can be without crawling on my hands and knees begging: Do NOT use these tainted grapes. Chalk it up to a big mistake, period. Yes, it's all a conspiracy. They are out to get us. mostly your money. they certainly don't care if the food is safe to eat or if the product poisons water or soil. profit is the sole motive. if you choose to give them more profit, that's your business, but keep your nasty poisoned food away (far away) from me & my farm. thanks. lee -- Last night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Jul 22, 7:04 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
Kay Lancaster wrote: "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did. You'll probably take this as more sarcastic criticism, but stories like this are why I'm not sure most people should be allowed to use other than a flyswatter as a pesticide. You accepted an unlabeled jar of unknown chemical of unknown concentration, with no instructions, and you didn't know how to apply it. How do you know it was carbaryl, and not, say, Paris green? Or maybe one of the herbicides? Or flour? Some day, a stunt like this is going to bite you badly. This might be that. Why don't you offer constructive advice instead of bashing. I would be willing to bet YOU are equally guilty of being ignorant on a specific topic equally as hazardous or even more so. You know, that WAS constructive, but you're too defensive atm to see it. Next time you want to use a chemical on a crop, 1. Make sure it has a label 2. Read the label, so you know the concentration, 3. Read the instructions, so that you: 4. Know how to apply it. Finally, you screwed up. Be an adult, take your lumps because you deserve 'em, say "You're right and now I know better." Don't whinge about it. The world won't always be a touch-feely warm little place where someone can make everything ok. Chris |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:45:55 -0700, Billy wrote:
In article , Charlie wrote: Hmmm....I wonder how wine was produced before the advent of carbaryl? It was pretty good when they used amphoras and fumarias. But then they severed the wine in these very pretty lead glazed cups and a Gothic night descended on Europe. Things (flavor) started looking up again in the mid-1600s when cork stoppers came into use. In the mean, time beer and wine saved Europe from the main diseases of ground water. The same function that tea served in the East. Paul should check with the nearest ag consultant but my understanding is that nothing harmful to man can survive fermentation. All the same, you've been a naughty boy Paul. I know it wasn't your intent to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization (such as it is). You've got to be careful about unintended consequences. See that this doesn't happen again. I understand that they also burned sulfur wicks in their casks much like adding sodium metabisulfite as many ( can't say 'all' - might start another flame war ) now do. But ... Yes .. I promise to be more careful in the future ( .. so I won't start the world whining again ). I will chech with the aggies. I have written gardentech.com ( the company that forced me to use their dust ) and am waiting their reply. = Paul = |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
Chris wrote:
On Jul 22, 7:04 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote: Kay Lancaster wrote: "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did. You'll probably take this as more sarcastic criticism, but stories like this are why I'm not sure most people should be allowed to use other than a flyswatter as a pesticide. You accepted an unlabeled jar of unknown chemical of unknown concentration, with no instructions, and you didn't know how to apply it. How do you know it was carbaryl, and not, say, Paris green? Or maybe one of the herbicides? Or flour? Some day, a stunt like this is going to bite you badly. This might be that. Why don't you offer constructive advice instead of bashing. I would be willing to bet YOU are equally guilty of being ignorant on a specific topic equally as hazardous or even more so. You know, that WAS constructive, but you're too defensive atm to see it. Next time you want to use a chemical on a crop, 1. Make sure it has a label 2. Read the label, so you know the concentration, 3. Read the instructions, so that you: 4. Know how to apply it. Finally, you screwed up. Be an adult, take your lumps because you deserve 'em, say "You're right and now I know better." Don't whinge about it. Please tell me HOW I screwed up by advising the OP to: 1) talk to the folks at Virginia Tech and possibly submit a sample for their lab to analyze 2) talk to his county agriculture agent and or to 3) get information from the manufacturer. Some county agriculture agencies have programs for certification and education on the use of pesticides and fungicides. My advice was to get the FACTS and was NOT based on some knee jerk reaction like those you expouse. The world won't always be a touch-feely warm little place where someone can make everything ok. Chris |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:45:55 -0700, Billy wrote: In article , Charlie wrote: Hmmm....I wonder how wine was produced before the advent of carbaryl? It was pretty good when they used amphoras and fumarias. But then they severed the wine in these very pretty lead glazed cups and a Gothic night descended on Europe. Things (flavor) started looking up again in the mid-1600s when cork stoppers came into use. In the mean, time beer and wine saved Europe from the main diseases of ground water. The same function that tea served in the East. Paul should check with the nearest ag consultant but my understanding is that nothing harmful to man can survive fermentation. All the same, you've been a naughty boy Paul. I know it wasn't your intent to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization (such as it is). You've got to be careful about unintended consequences. See that this doesn't happen again. I understand that they also burned sulfur wicks in their casks much like adding sodium metabisulfite as many ( can't say 'all' - might start another flame war ) now do. But ... Yes .. I promise to be more careful in the future ( .. so I won't start the world whining again ). I will chech with the aggies. I have written gardentech.com ( the company that forced me to use their dust ) and am waiting their reply. = Paul = Sulfur candles were used before there was a written language. As luck would have it, SO2 is heavier than air. Sulfur wicks are still used to burn in barrels before they are stored empty although the trend is towards compressed gas. -- Billy Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 05:28:15 -0700, Chris wrote:
On Jul 22, 7:04 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote: Kay Lancaster wrote: "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did. You'll probably take this as more sarcastic criticism, but stories like this are why I'm not sure most people should be allowed to use other than a flyswatter as a pesticide. You accepted an unlabeled jar of unknown chemical of unknown concentration, with no instructions, and you didn't know how to apply it. How do you know it was carbaryl, and not, say, Paris green? Or maybe one of the herbicides? Or flour? Some day, a stunt like this is going to bite you badly. This might be that. Why don't you offer constructive advice instead of bashing. I would be willing to bet YOU are equally guilty of being ignorant on a specific topic equally as hazardous or even more so. You know, that WAS constructive, but you're too defensive atm to see it. Next time you want to use a chemical on a crop, 1. Make sure it has a label 2. Read the label, so you know the concentration, 3. Read the instructions, so that you: 4. Know how to apply it. Finally, you screwed up. Be an adult, take your lumps because you deserve 'em, say "You're right and now I know better." Don't whinge about it. The world won't always be a touch-feely warm little place where someone can make everything ok. Chris OK.. You're 100% correct. I goofed - f'd up - etc. Checking with the fellow who gave me the dust - Sevin-5%. Being is he is 85 yo and farmed all his life, when he said to toss the stuff, I did as he suggested. I have written to gardentech.com ( the makers of Sevin-5 ) and am waiting for a reply. I checked with my neighbor who uses the stuff and read the instructions on the back and of course it said to use appropriet dispenser. It also said that the preharvest interval was 7 days for grapes. Looking through www.gardentech.com/sevin_fastfacts.asp Q : How does Sevin control insects? A: Sevin has a dual mode-of-action - it works on contact and through ingestion. Sevin is non-systemic, which means it does not penetrate plant tissue - it stays on the outside. After controlling the targeted pest, Sevin is easily broken down in the environment. I know, I know now - day late an' a buck short... I should have done the necessary reading ahead of time etc. And I should have told Mr Red " Just toss it on - are you crazy ol' man! - do you know how them posters will growl if I don't take all precautions and need advice because I didn't follow instructions and protocol..." I've used newsgroups in one form or other since DEC-NOTES. I can honestly say that I never did pick apart everything a poster wrote that I found fault with. If I couldn't offer some form of suggestion or help, I move on to the next post. And then I remember the flame wars that started taking place - people who just loved to tear everything apart and find fault. Mispelled words, improper grammar, you name it - not having a damned thing to do with the posters original query. Pre-spam spammers. But it's ok. Take what I need - leave the rest. And I am not referring to your own reply, there was useful input offered. Thank you - it will help in the future - but really did not focus on my query - grapes good or bad now that I f'd up. = Paul = |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Jul 23, 9:01 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
Chris wrote: On Jul 22, 7:04 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote: Kay Lancaster wrote: "Paul J. Dudley" wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin. The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did. You'll probably take this as more sarcastic criticism, but stories like this are why I'm not sure most people should be allowed to use other than a flyswatter as a pesticide. You accepted an unlabeled jar of unknown chemical of unknown concentration, with no instructions, and you didn't know how to apply it. How do you know it was carbaryl, and not, say, Paris green? Or maybe one of the herbicides? Or flour? Some day, a stunt like this is going to bite you badly. This might be that. Why don't you offer constructive advice instead of bashing. I would be willing to bet YOU are equally guilty of being ignorant on a specific topic equally as hazardous or even more so. You know, that WAS constructive, but you're too defensive atm to see it. Next time you want to use a chemical on a crop, 1. Make sure it has a label 2. Read the label, so you know the concentration, 3. Read the instructions, so that you: 4. Know how to apply it. Finally, you screwed up. Be an adult, take your lumps because you deserve 'em, say "You're right and now I know better." Don't whinge about it. Please tell me HOW I screwed up by advising the OP to: 1) talk to the folks at Virginia Tech and possibly submit a sample for their lab to analyze 2) talk to his county agriculture agent and or to 3) get information from the manufacturer. Some county agriculture agencies have programs for certification and education on the use of pesticides and fungicides. My advice was to get the FACTS and was NOT based on some knee jerk reaction like those you expouse. The world won't always be a touch-feely warm little place where someone can make everything ok. Chris My mistake. I should have written that to the original poster. You provided sound advice. Sorry for the mixup. Chris |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, Paul J. Dudley wrote:
Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters. As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked" in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so. TIA Paul I would like to thank all ( even flamers ) for their replies. Too many to reply to all at this point ( persons who had questions ) and things have really gotten totally blown out of proportion. I have written GardenTech and am waiting their reply. I've been to their site and now I know that the preharvest interval is 7 days for grapes. According to them: Q : How does Sevin control insects? A: Sevin has a dual mode-of-action - it works on contact and through ingestion. Sevin is non-systemic, which means it does not penetrate plant tissue - it stays on the outside. After controlling the targeted pest, Sevin is easily broken down in the environment. ( http://www.gardentech.com/sevin_fastfacts.asp#11G ) And I will write my local aggie extension service about my situation. Yes I made quite a few mistakes in my endevour as pointed out by so many. And yes I did receive a lot of good input and good constructive critism. As far as polluting the world with my careless recklessness, I will correct my ways. Moving to NC from MA I knew nothing about all this pesticide, herbicide and chemical fertilizer business. Here I found myself surrounded by crops of all kinds. The food belt.. And when those around me suggested Roundup around the house and anywhere my mower can't hit I thought they were crazy or lazy. Pesticides - what's a few bugs. I tried inventing my own pepper-soap solutions at first. And chemical fertilizers, no way. I saw the farmers out there spraying all kinds of stuff on them fields. It scared me - if I can smell it - I'm ingesting it. Not long after I met my girlfriend and her daddy - an 85 yo farmer with hundreds of acre that he still farmed. I ended up helping him on his farm. I never knew so many chemical odors existed. But that man could make crops. And that man is 85 yo and still farming ( he still climbs the corral gate instead of swinging it open ). And it was there that I learned that down in these parts (Sandhills)them weeds and bugs will take over without the use of chemicals. And although I haven't totally lost my fear of them, I began to see them as a necessary evil. And when I check out veggies in the local markets - I know what I'm eating. Yes I wash my store bought veggies, but one never knows for sure. I guess we can put this post to rest now. To the flamers - flame on. To those who actually wanted to help I thank you all for your input. If you had questions unanswered I appologize for not answering ( one person asked what type grape - not known. I got the vine 5 years ago from my neighbor who knew nothing about it. He was trying to get rid of his vine but gave me a cutting. It is a white variety, takes on a golden hue when ripe and very sweet. Very prolific producer and quite vigorous. Berries grow to about 5/8 inch when ripe, tightly packed clusters 4 - 8 inches in length. Early ripening - end of July to mid August. Fruity tasting wine when semi dry. Not sure what else to add ). = Paul = |
Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?
In article ,
"Paul J. Dudley" wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:18:03 -0400, Paul J. Dudley wrote: Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ). I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters. As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked" in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so. TIA Paul I would like to thank all ( even flamers ) for their replies. Too many to reply to all at this point ( persons who had questions ) and things have really gotten totally blown out of proportion. I have written GardenTech and am waiting their reply. I've been to their site and now I know that the preharvest interval is 7 days for grapes. According to them: Q : How does Sevin control insects? A: Sevin has a dual mode-of-action - it works on contact and through ingestion. Sevin is non-systemic, which means it does not penetrate plant tissue - it stays on the outside. After controlling the targeted pest, Sevin is easily broken down in the environment. ( http://www.gardentech.com/sevin_fastfacts.asp#11G ) And I will write my local aggie extension service about my situation. Yes I made quite a few mistakes in my endevour as pointed out by so many. And yes I did receive a lot of good input and good constructive critism. As far as polluting the world with my careless recklessness, I will correct my ways. Moving to NC from MA I knew nothing about all this pesticide, herbicide and chemical fertilizer business. Here I found myself surrounded by crops of all kinds. The food belt.. And when those around me suggested Roundup around the house and anywhere my mower can't hit I thought they were crazy or lazy. Pesticides - what's a few bugs. I tried inventing my own pepper-soap solutions at first. And chemical fertilizers, no way. I saw the farmers out there spraying all kinds of stuff on them fields. It scared me - if I can smell it - I'm ingesting it. Not long after I met my girlfriend and her daddy - an 85 yo farmer with hundreds of acre that he still farmed. I ended up helping him on his farm. I never knew so many chemical odors existed. But that man could make crops. And that man is 85 yo and still farming ( he still climbs the corral gate instead of swinging it open ). And it was there that I learned that down in these parts (Sandhills)them weeds and bugs will take over without the use of chemicals. And although I haven't totally lost my fear of them, I began to see them as a necessary evil. And when I check out veggies in the local markets - I know what I'm eating. Yes I wash my store bought veggies, but one never knows for sure. I guess we can put this post to rest now. To the flamers - flame on. To those who actually wanted to help I thank you all for your input. If you had questions unanswered I appologize for not answering ( one person asked what type grape - not known. I got the vine 5 years ago from my neighbor who knew nothing about it. He was trying to get rid of his vine but gave me a cutting. It is a white variety, takes on a golden hue when ripe and very sweet. Very prolific producer and quite vigorous. Berries grow to about 5/8 inch when ripe, tightly packed clusters 4 - 8 inches in length. Early ripening - end of July to mid August. Fruity tasting wine when semi dry. Not sure what else to add ). = Paul = Basic premise I learned from the early things like VAX notes. With these electronic communications best practice is to assume you are writing to your best friend. Some of my friends are idiots and some are not. Discerning which is which is too much for me who just likes to rub or bend elbows on occasion. Still if I detect offensive I yield and help the other go by. Chinese phi lo stuff. Perhaps with a little help push :)) Bill -- Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:02 PM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter