"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"brooklyn1" wrote in message
"Billy" wrote in message

Don't use the ones with colored logos on them though, as you wouldn't
use colored ads from the newspaper either.


Colored inks are no more toxic than black ink and inks are no longer
toxic, haven't been for many years.

Ah drat - I should have read the thread before making a redundant post!

It's okay, sometimes redundancy is good, enhances credibility credibility.

"brooklyn1" wrote in
:

do you really think butter is
naturally yellow... if you read labels you'll be very
surprized... that raspberry ice cream is colored with beet
juice.

industrial butter is almost white, so yes, it's colored. real butter
made from pastured cows is yellow on it's own. the *shade* of yellow
depends on the breed of cow (Jerseys have quite yellow butterfat,
Holsteins not so much) & the type of forage.
if the raspberry ice cream is colored with beet juice, you're buying
good ice cream. the cheap stuff uses chemical food colors.
i'm making strawberry ice cream for the Miles Smith Farm Kentucky
Derby party this afternoon. it has a quart of mashed strawberries (to
a gallon of custard base) & it's barely pink...
lee

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
"starrysmile" wrote in message

Would it be ok to use brown paper grocery bags for mulch as one would
use newspaper?

Ah memories. I haven't seen a paper grocery bag for 25+ years. I
remember them with great fondness.

And yes, you could use then as a weed barrier with a more attractive
material on top as a mulch - dunno if you'd actually want to use them as
a mulch on their own though.

In some cases attractive is not important, and and covering with bits and
pieces creates a lot of extra labor.

Agreed, but then we dont' know where the OP wants to put the bags. If he's
in suburbia and s/he wants to put in a front garden, then the neighbours
might get upset andsome people seem to worry about that.

I use any kind of corrogated cardboard
in my vegetable garden, I don't care how it looks... covering it with say
wood chips would only present a problem in a vegetable garden as it
becomes mixed in with the soil.

Also true, but hay works as well, can be tucked around plant stems and
doesn't act as a barrier to the rain or sprinkler usage as does large sheets
of cardboard. I use paper or cardboard to kill large slabs of weeds but I
usually don't let my veg garden get to the stage that I can use large slabs
of cardboard. I'm also using an old floor rug made of sisal at the moment
to kill a large section of lawn where I want to establish a new flower bed.
It's been there about 4 months and has done a great job.

"enigma" wrote in message
"brooklyn1" wrote in

do you really think butter is
naturally yellow... if you read labels you'll be very
surprized... that raspberry ice cream is colored with beet
juice.

industrial butter is almost white, so yes, it's colored. real butter
made from pastured cows is yellow on it's own.

Ah! More memories! Real butter made by the various Aunts (real and
adopted).

On May 2, 7:30*am, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"brooklyn1" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
"starrysmile" wrote in message

Would it be ok to use brown paper grocery bags for mulch as one would
use newspaper?

Ah memories. *I haven't seen a paper grocery bag for 25+ years. *I
remember them with great fondness.

And yes, you could use then as a weed barrier with a more attractive
material on top as a mulch - dunno if you'd actually want to use them as
a mulch on their own though.

In some cases attractive is not important, and and covering with bits and
pieces creates a lot of extra labor.

Agreed, but then we dont' know where the OP wants to put the bags. *If he's
in suburbia and s/he wants to put in a front garden, then the neighbours
might get upset andsome people seem to worry about that.

I use any kind of corrogated cardboard

in my vegetable garden, I don't care how it looks... covering it with say
wood chips would only present a problem in a vegetable garden as it
becomes mixed in with the soil.

Also true, but hay works as well, can be tucked around plant stems and
doesn't act as a barrier to the rain or sprinkler usage as does large sheets
of cardboard. *I use paper or cardboard to kill large slabs of weeds but I
usually don't let my veg garden get to the stage that I can use large slabs
of cardboard. *I'm also using an old floor rug made of sisal at the moment
to kill a large section of lawn where I want to establish a new flower bed.
It's been there about 4 months and has done a great job.

Pieces of neighbor's carport are really good for smothering patches of
lawn. I was using that for a while. Metal breaks down very slowly
though, so it has to be replaced with organic mulch when ready to put
in plants.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"brooklyn1" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
"starrysmile" wrote in message

Would it be ok to use brown paper grocery bags for mulch as one would
use newspaper?

Ah memories. I haven't seen a paper grocery bag for 25+ years. I
remember them with great fondness.

And yes, you could use then as a weed barrier with a more attractive
material on top as a mulch - dunno if you'd actually want to use them as
a mulch on their own though.

In some cases attractive is not important, and and covering with bits and
pieces creates a lot of extra labor.

Agreed, but then we dont' know where the OP wants to put the bags. If
he's in suburbia and s/he wants to put in a front garden, then the
neighbours might get upset andsome people seem to worry about that.

I wouldn't use any kind of paper as a permanent barrier, it would become a
do-over every year. For my more visible beds I use heavy weed block fabric
covered with a thick layer of pine bark nuggets. All I ever need do is
sprinkle more nuggets occasionally.

I use any kind of corrogated cardboard
in my vegetable garden, I don't care how it looks... covering it with say
wood chips would only present a problem in a vegetable garden as it
becomes mixed in with the soil.

Also true, but hay works as well, can be tucked around plant stems and
doesn't act as a barrier to the rain or sprinkler usage as does large
sheets of cardboard. I use paper or cardboard to kill large slabs of
weeds but I usually don't let my veg garden get to the stage that I can
use large slabs of cardboard. I'm also using an old floor rug made of
sisal at the moment to kill a large section of lawn where I want to
establish a new flower bed. It's been there about 4 months and has done a
great job.

I've tried hay, it's messy, looks mess too, the wind blows it away, and it
really doesn't keep weeds down unless it's like a foot thick. In my
vegetable garden I use weed block cloth and poke holes for the plants. I
use cardboard for the major walkways. I don't concern myself with how my
vegetable garden looks, no one else sees it but me... I'm into low
maintenance. The cloth is held down with those giant wire staples but also
chunks of fire wood, tree branches, and even extra metal fence posts...
whatever keeps the cloth from blowing about.

"Mycosimian" wrote:

Pieces of neighbor's carport are really good for smothering patches of
lawn. I was using that for a while. Metal breaks down very slowly
though, so it has to be replaced with organic mulch when ready to put
in plants.

=========

I've never prepared a garden by smothering the sod, I don't see the point,
you'd still need to till, remove rocks, till some more, remove more rocks,
rake and remove more rocks... so may as well from the gitgo and get it over
with rather than waiting and waiting, and waiting... and smothering sod with
sheets of metal seems like trick for acomplishing absolutely nothing.... I
guess it's a grand idea for a natural procrastinator, for someone who looks
for any excuse to put off having to work, for someone who really never
intends to have a garden but needs something to point at when they tell
folks I'm working on it. LOL

On May 2, 9:45*am, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"Mycosimian" wrote:

Pieces of neighbor's carport are really good for smothering patches of
lawn. I was using that for a while. Metal breaks down very slowly
though, so it has to be replaced with organic mulch when ready to put
in plants.

=========

I've never prepared a garden by smothering the sod, I don't see the point,
you'd still need to till, remove rocks, till some more, remove more rocks,
rake and remove more rocks... *so may as well from the gitgo and get it over
with rather than waiting and waiting, and waiting... and smothering sod with
sheets of metal seems like trick for acomplishing *absolutely nothing..... I
guess it's a grand idea for a natural procrastinator, for someone who looks
for any excuse to put off having to work, for someone who really never
intends to have a garden but needs something to point at when they tell
folks I'm working on it. LOL

I tried tilling last year, it was fun but I am having more success
with other methods now. I was lucky enough to find an abundant supply
of free, well rotted wood chips, so now I just slap some of that down
and plant in it.

"Mycosimian" wrote in message
...
On May 2, 9:45 am, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"Mycosimian" wrote:

Pieces of neighbor's carport are really good for smothering patches of
lawn. I was using that for a while. Metal breaks down very slowly
though, so it has to be replaced with organic mulch when ready to put
in plants.

=========

I've never prepared a garden by smothering the sod, I don't see the point,
you'd still need to till, remove rocks, till some more, remove more rocks,
rake and remove more rocks... so may as well from the gitgo and get it
over
with rather than waiting and waiting, and waiting... and smothering sod
with
sheets of metal seems like trick for acomplishing absolutely nothing.... I
guess it's a grand idea for a natural procrastinator, for someone who
looks
for any excuse to put off having to work, for someone who really never
intends to have a garden but needs something to point at when they tell
folks I'm working on it. LOL

I tried tilling last year, it was fun but I am having more success
with other methods now. I was lucky enough to find an abundant supply
of free, well rotted wood chips, so now I just slap some of that down
and plant in it.

==========

I don't know of any vegetable plants that will grow in wood chips. Well,
maybe you're growing orchids, there's good money in vanilla beans.

On May 2, 10:21*am, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"Mycosimian" wrote in message

...
On May 2, 9:45 am, "brooklyn1" wrote:



"Mycosimian" wrote:

Pieces of neighbor's carport are really good for smothering patches of
lawn. I was using that for a while. Metal breaks down very slowly
though, so it has to be replaced with organic mulch when ready to put
in plants.

=========

I've never prepared a garden by smothering the sod, I don't see the point,
you'd still need to till, remove rocks, till some more, remove more rocks,
rake and remove more rocks... so may as well from the gitgo and get it
over
with rather than waiting and waiting, and waiting... and smothering sod
with
sheets of metal seems like trick for acomplishing absolutely nothing..... I
guess it's a grand idea for a natural procrastinator, for someone who
looks
for any excuse to put off having to work, for someone who really never
intends to have a garden but needs something to point at when they tell
folks I'm working on it. LOL

I tried tilling last year, it was fun but I am having more success
with other methods now. I was lucky enough to find an abundant supply
of free, well rotted wood chips, so now I just slap some of that down
and plant in it.

==========

I don't know of any vegetable plants that will grow in wood chips. *Well,
maybe you're growing orchids, there's good money in vanilla beans.

I don't have to explain to you how a plant's root system works, but
there's soil under them thar mounds. Also, I've been scraping around
the bottom of the pile, so I get a bit of sandy topsoil mixed in. It
looks very nice. I'm seeing a lot of cool mushrooms this year too.
Everything in my garden is an experiment right now.

"brooklyn1" wrote in message

Agreed, but then we dont' know where the OP wants to put the bags. If
he's in suburbia and s/he wants to put in a front garden, then the
neighbours might get upset andsome people seem to worry about that.

I wouldn't use any kind of paper as a permanent barrier, it would become a
do-over every year.

I think that's self evident.

For my more visible beds I use heavy weed block fabric
covered with a thick layer of pine bark nuggets. All I ever need do is
sprinkle more nuggets occasionally.

God I hate that stuff with a passion! Useless as tits on a man's back.

When we first moved here nearly every bed was covered in the stuff. wind
blown weeds would grow on the top in the mulch and there were no worms to be
seen at all under it. They were all on top of the mat where the mulch was
breakign down. It took me 10 years to get rid of it in a lot of places.
I'm still ripping it out as I come across it. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it.
High maintenance and not suitable here at all because even though it's
porous, it acts as a barrier to watering or rain.

I use any kind of corrogated cardboard
in my vegetable garden, I don't care how it looks... covering it with
say wood chips would only present a problem in a vegetable garden as it
becomes mixed in with the soil.

Also true, but hay works as well, can be tucked around plant stems and
doesn't act as a barrier to the rain or sprinkler usage as does large
sheets of cardboard. I use paper or cardboard to kill large slabs of
weeds but I usually don't let my veg garden get to the stage that I can
use large slabs of cardboard. I'm also using an old floor rug made of
sisal at the moment to kill a large section of lawn where I want to
establish a new flower bed. It's been there about 4 months and has done a
great job.

I've tried hay, it's messy, looks mess too, the wind blows it away, and it
really doesn't keep weeds down unless it's like a foot thick.

I like it's use and I've never had it blow away and I live in a high wind
area. that's why I have to mulch heavily. I've used all sorts of hay and
straw. the best is lucerne (alfalfa) and you'd have to have hurricane
conditions for that to even move because of the interconnecting stalks. You
could try that. The other thing is to always water it in.

In my
vegetable garden I use weed block cloth and poke holes for the plants. I
use cardboard for the major walkways. I don't concern myself with how my
vegetable garden looks, no one else sees it but me... I'm into low
maintenance. The cloth is held down with those giant wire staples but
also chunks of fire wood, tree branches, and even extra metal fence
posts... whatever keeps the cloth from blowing about.

Haven't you got a wind barrier? Growing veggies where there is so much wind
tha you lose your mulch is highly counterproductive. Veggies don't like
wind. That is why I put up a fence to the strongest wind side and then a
planted windbreak out side that beyond the fence.

I've tried to explain to a neighbour that she has her garden in the least
effective place as has another firend. she doesn't understand for some
bizarre reason but she knows about wind and the effect it has on her cattle.
for some reason she can't make the connection between vegetable performance
and cattle performance.

"brooklyn1" wrote in message news:S%

I've never prepared a garden by smothering the sod, I don't see the point,
you'd still need to till, remove rocks, till some more, remove more rocks,
rake and remove more rocks... so may as well from the gitgo and get it
over with rather than waiting and waiting, and waiting... and smothering
sod with sheets of metal seems like trick for acomplishing absolutely
nothing....

Rubbish. Unless you've tried it, you have no idea of how effective it can
be or how well it works. When you try it, then you have the experience to
make a valid comment, till then.......

In article ,
Jangchub wrote:

Ruth Stout, the inventor of no til gardening doesn't suggest any
tilling or turning in of anything. She says to loosen the soil where
you plant and pile straw or alfalfa hay to about a 12 inch height. In
about one or two years the soil be perfectly friable. That's been my
experience, so you are correct.
Victoria

Speaking of authors
Hold Notification - Phone
The organic method primer update : a practical explanation: the how and
why for the beginner and the experienced by Rateaver, Bargyla
is awaiting me at the library, oh ye of little faith.
At 596 p., [78] p. of plates, it is quite an update.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

"Jangchub" wrote in message
On Sun, 3 May 2009 10:08:01 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

Rubbish. Unless you've tried it, you have no idea of how effective it can
be or how well it works. When you try it, then you have the experience to
make a valid comment, till then.......


Ruth Stout, the inventor of no til gardening doesn't suggest any
tilling or turning in of anything. She says to loosen the soil where
you plant and pile straw or alfalfa hay to about a 12 inch height. In
about one or two years the soil be perfectly friable. That's been my
experience, so you are correct.

I think Ruth Stout and all the other no dig gardeners must have gardened on
good soil.

I use mulch and a variety of other means to kill weeds but unless I dig,
there is no way in my compacted, water resistant soil, worm deficient that
I could ahve any garden without doing some digging. I don't do a double dig
but I certainly need to dig where there has only been pasture before.

In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Jangchub" wrote in message
On Sun, 3 May 2009 10:08:01 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

Rubbish. Unless you've tried it, you have no idea of how effective it can
be or how well it works. When you try it, then you have the experience to
make a valid comment, till then.......


Ruth Stout, the inventor of no til gardening doesn't suggest any
tilling or turning in of anything. She says to loosen the soil where
you plant and pile straw or alfalfa hay to about a 12 inch height. In
about one or two years the soil be perfectly friable. That's been my
experience, so you are correct.

I think Ruth Stout and all the other no dig gardeners must have gardened on
good soil.

I use mulch and a variety of other means to kill weeds but unless I dig,
there is no way in my compacted, water resistant soil, worm deficient that
I could ahve any garden without doing some digging. I don't do a double dig
but I certainly need to dig where there has only been pasture before.

Doesn't mulching with lucerne (or other organic mulch) and adding manure
bring a gang of worms?
I started with clay and now my garden plots are granular and friable
from lasagna gardening.

This year will be difficult year, though, because of water rationing.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html