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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
"Ed" wrote ... I have a couple of large compost bins on my allotment which I regularly fill with compostable materials from home, but this only accounts for a few percent. For the most part, I go to the local riding stables where they bag up the horse manure and leave it outside for people to take for free. In the winter time, when the horses are inside the stables, the mix is heavy with straw and bedding. But now in the warmer months with the horses outside , it is mainly stuff gathered straight off the paddock areas where the horses pass their days. The thing is this. The bins are 4'x3'x3' and I just do not have the energy or strength to turn them. So , in effect they are cold compost heaps. I let the contents rot down over a 2 year period. But is there a danger that the pathogens in the horse dung will not die off (as they would if I were operating a hot heap) and that my family could become seriously ill if I use this composted material on my vegetable plot even if it is 2 years old? Pathogens in Horse dung? Please advise what and any scientific papers that back it up. I know it is a big carrier of Tetanus but not heard about anything else of concern. "No major human disease has ever been accurately attributed to the intimate contact human beings have had with horses for thousands of years. Veterinarians and vet students probably have the greatest exposure to true risk from horse manure. The horse has a very inefficient gut: it's a one-way throughput system. Horses are physiologically incapable of vomiting or regurgitating. If something gets stuck on the way through, the only way to get it out is by surgery or physical intervention. As a result, you will often find vets armpit deep under a horse's tail. Nevertheless, there has never been a documented case of veterinarians contracting illness as a result of this rather extreme true exposure to horse manure." We use well rotted 1 year old stuff and have never had any trouble. -- Regards Bob Hobden just W. of London |
#2
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
In article ,
Bob Hobden wrote: Pathogens in Horse dung? Please advise what and any scientific papers that back it up. I know it is a big carrier of Tetanus but not heard about anything else of concern. Try anthrax. However, with both tetanus and anthrax, you are likely to have trouble only if the dung comes from a stable where they shovel dead horses out with the bedding. Not generally the case .... Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
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#4
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
In article ,
RJBL wrote: Cl. tetani; Cl. Welchii; various E.coli and salmonella strains and Cryptosporidium all are risks from the use of farmyard and stable manures. Historically, the biggest risk to agricultural labourers and gardeners has been tetanus and gas-gangrene infections of, often, very trivial wounds. The extent to which the organic veg growing fad has been responsible for the increase, over the last few decades is unestimated. Best to keep your AT injections up to date and wash and boil everything that you eat from your veg / salad patch Oh, nuts! WHAT increase in tetanus and gas-gangrene in the UK? The historical dangers were because a LOT of farm animals died from tetanus, anthrax etc. and the spores were everywhere. Well, they still are, but are not transmitted by that route any more because of the efficiency with which infected animals are detected and disposed of. Yes, keep your tetanus innoculation up to date, but don't use two century old information as a guide to safe practices. A lot of the others you mention are something that most people have some immunity to, or even aren't pathogens at all (for example, you NEED E. coli to stay healthy). There is also increasing evidence that preventing children from being exposed to them increases the risk of much more serious problems. Exercise your immune system and stop fussing. Yes, of course, some people are at special risk. Don't START training your immune system in old age or when ill, and so on. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote: Depends which E. coli you are talking about. Many strains are highly pathogenic; I wouldn't like 0157 in me, for example, immunosuppressed or not. More info here if you don't mind being too bored: http://textbookofbacteriology.net/e.coli.html For "highly", read "slightly"! I wouldn't worry about 0157 - indeed, I may have it, for all I know to the contrary - as it is dangerous only to the very young, very old and immunosuppressed. If you look at the reference you gave, most of the pathogenic forms are described as dangerous to infants. All forms (even the symbiotic ones) are dangerous if they grow in the wrong place, which is one of the reasons you need immunity to a wide range of them. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#7
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
In article ,
wrote: In article , Jeff Layman wrote: Depends which E. coli you are talking about. Many strains are highly pathogenic; I wouldn't like 0157 in me, for example, immunosuppressed or not. More info here if you don't mind being too bored: http://textbookofbacteriology.net/e.coli.html For "highly", read "slightly"! I wouldn't worry about 0157 - indeed, I may have it, for all I know to the contrary - as it is dangerous only to the very young, very old and immunosuppressed. If you look at the reference you gave, most of the pathogenic forms are described as dangerous to infants. In the Odwall Apple juice case an 18 month old infant died. In the Dole spinach case, 3 octagenarians died, and in the latest, Nestle Toll House Refrigerated Cookie Dough, no one died. However, it is reported that e. coli O157:H7 really opens the sluices at both ends. Maybe not deadly, but not a walk in the park, either. The FDA suggested that you "contact your health care professional immediately, if you or your family have recently eaten recalled cookie dough and have had stomach cramps, vomiting, or diarrhea, with or without bloody stools." 'Nuff said. All forms (even the symbiotic ones) are dangerous if they grow in the wrong place, which is one of the reasons you need immunity to a wide range of them. Regards, Nick Maclaren. -- - Billy There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Will Rogers http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn |
#8
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
wrote:
In article , Jeff Layman wrote: Depends which E. coli you are talking about. Many strains are highly pathogenic; I wouldn't like 0157 in me, for example, immunosuppressed or not. More info here if you don't mind being too bored: http://textbookofbacteriology.net/e.coli.html For "highly", read "slightly"! Depends. May be true for neonatal meningitis (1:2000), but certainly not for UTI. Quote "Uropathogenic E. coli (UPEC) cause 90% of the urinary tract infections (UTI) in anatomically-normal, unobstructed urinary tracts.". I am amazed that the figure is so high. There are a lot of women out there with UTIs caused by UPEC. I wouldn't worry about 0157 - indeed, I may have it, for all I know to the contrary - as it is dangerous only to the very young, very old and immunosuppressed. I'm not arguing about how dangerous it is, merely commenting on pathogenicity. I've not had E. coli gut problems, but have had Salmonella, so can speak from experience about the pathogenicity of bacteria affecting the gut. Certainly not dangerous, but very debilitating, especially in a tropical climate. If you look at the reference you gave, most of the pathogenic forms are described as dangerous to infants. True for neonatal meningitis (couldn't really be anything else with that name!). but not so for UTI - see above quote. All forms (even the symbiotic ones) are dangerous if they grow in the wrong place, which is one of the reasons you need immunity to a wide range of them. I definitely agree with you on that. Constant exposure to low levels of bacteria is needed to keep the immune system ticking over properly. "Use it or lose it" applies here! -- Jeff |
#9
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
it is a trade off, but organically produced food is safer according to this
report...... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31766160...h-food_safety/ "Avoiding MRSA Follow these tips to help reduce your risk of exposure to MRSA in meats: Shop smarter Look for the USDA organic seal. Organic meat might be less likely to have antibiotic-resistant or disease-causing organisms, as the animal hasn't been fed antibiotics, hormones to promote growth, or animal by-products. Other labels, such as no antibiotics added, are not verified by independent testing. Log on to eatwellguide.org to search for listings of stores and restaurants that offer no-antibiotic-use, grass-fed, or organic meats. Stock up on nonmeat protein sources such as beans, lentils, and tofu and swap them in for meat now and then. Visit prevention.com/veggies for recipe ideas. " "You may not have the same close contact with meat that a processing plant worker has, but scientists warn there is reason for concern: Most of us handle meat daily, as we bread chicken cutlets, trim fat from pork, or form chopped beef into burgers. Cooking does kill the microbe, but MRSA thrives on skin, so you can contract it by touching infected raw meat when you have a cut on your hand, explains Stuart Levy, MD, a Tufts University professor of microbiology and medicine. MRSA also flourishes in nasal passages, so touching your nose after touching meat gives the bug another way into your body, adds Smith. Tainted meat exposed Extensive research in Europe and Asia has found MRSA in many food animal species, and in the past year, US researchers have begun testing meat sold here. Scientists at Louisiana State University Agricultural Center tested 120 cuts of locally purchased meat and found MRSA in 4 percent of the pork and 1 percent of the beef. A University of Maryland scientist found it in 1 out of 300 pork samples from the Washington, DC, area. And a study in Canada (from which we import thousands of tons of meat annually) found MRSA in 9 percent of 212 pork samples. The percentages may be small, but according to the USDA, Americans eat more than 180 million pounds of meat every day. "When you consider the tiny size of the meat studies, the fact that they found any contamination at all is amazing," says Steven Roach, public health program director for Food Animal Concerns Trust. In some cases, the tainted meat probably came from infected animals; in others, already infected humans could have passed on MRSA to the meat during processing. Regardless of where it originated, even a small proportion of contaminated meat could mean a tremendous amount of MRSA out there. "We need more US research to figure out what's going on," says Roach." Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago |
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
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#11
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
In article ,
RJBL wrote: The various enteritis illness, some trivial some not so, have increased in frequency by a couple of orders of magnitude since the 1960's. ... Oh, really? Do you have any evidence that this is anything more than a recording artifact? Back in the 1960s, most people didn't call a doctor for mere D&V, whereas they do now. Related to this, there has been a HUGE increase in the number of people who are seriously infirm, because modern medical aid prevents them dying from other causes. A secondary effect, which particularly affects the serious incidents, is that the population has much less immunity now than it did then, because it has not had the exposure. It isn't clear how much that affects the statistics. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
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#13
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
Nick wrote after Bob Hobden wrote: Pathogens in Horse dung? Please advise what and any scientific papers that back it up. I know it is a big carrier of Tetanus but not heard about anything else of concern. Try anthrax. However, with both tetanus and anthrax, you are likely to have trouble only if the dung comes from a stable where they shovel dead horses out with the bedding. Not generally the case .... I agree there are possibly some other pathogens in Horse dung but in practice they don't pose much of a risk to human health these days. Not worth worrying about provided you use normal sensible measures like washing hands etc. -- Regards Bob Hobden just W. of London |
#14
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
wrote in message news:h3kt9j$1f6
Bob Hobden wrote: Pathogens in Horse dung? Please advise what and any scientific papers that back it up. I know it is a big carrier of Tetanus but not heard about anything else of concern. Try anthrax. And the Hendra Virus which is extremely virulent. But I use lots of horse manure and I don't bother composting it at all. |
#15
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Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.
In article ,
FarmI ask@itshall be given wrote: And the Hendra Virus which is extremely virulent. Grin :-) http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/spb/m...ages/nipah.htm "The natural reservoir for Hendra virus is thought to be flying foxes" "Only three human cases of Hendra virus disease have been recognized." Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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