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apple trees from seed
I found a couple of old apple trees that produced the best apples I had since a child. I have always wanted to try planting apple seeds and now with these two wonderful apple seeds, I did just that. I have two apple trees (same tree) that grew almost 3 ft in one year! I'm ready to plant them in the ground as soon as the weather cools. The other apple seeds that I planted, are just now popping up in my make-shift hot box. My question....will these trees produce anything near to their mother plant? I have other dwarf apple trees and I'm not worried about pollination. But I don't know what if any type of apples these trees will produce. Is a seed a seed and will it keep growing and be like the mother seed from which it came? :) Donna in WA |
apple trees from seed
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:43:49 -0700, "DEM" wrote:
I found a couple of old apple trees that produced the best apples I had since a child. I have always wanted to try planting apple seeds and now with these two wonderful apple seeds, I did just that. I have two apple trees (same tree) that grew almost 3 ft in one year! I'm ready to plant them in the ground as soon as the weather cools. The other apple seeds that I planted, are just now popping up in my make-shift hot box. My question....will these trees produce anything near to their mother plant? I have other dwarf apple trees and I'm not worried about pollination. But I don't know what if any type of apples these trees will produce. Is a seed a seed and will it keep growing and be like the mother seed from which it came? :) Donna in WA http://www.gardeningtipsnideas.com/2...m_se eds.html |
apple trees from seed
DEM wrote:
I found a couple of old apple trees that produced the best apples I had since a child. I have always wanted to try planting apple seeds and now with these two wonderful apple seeds, I did just that. I have two apple trees (same tree) that grew almost 3 ft in one year! I'm ready to plant them in the ground as soon as the weather cools. The other apple seeds that I planted, are just now popping up in my make-shift hot box. My question....will these trees produce anything near to their mother plant? I have other dwarf apple trees and I'm not worried about pollination. But I don't know what if any type of apples these trees will produce. Is a seed a seed and will it keep growing and be like the mother seed from which it came? :) Donna in WA There are two reasons why you might not get a tree that you like. One is that if the original was grafted (and the seedling obviously isn't) the different root stock may change the nature of the tree and its hardiness, although it shouldn't have much direct effect on the fruit. The second is that when grown from seed there is a degree of genetic variation due to random recombination of genes from the parents, this is more marked if the pollinator is another variety. You mention dwarf trees, dwarfing is done by grafting good fruiting wood on to dwarf rootstock. Your seedlings will not be dwarfs unless from dwarf fruiting wood which is probably not the case. Commercially raised apple trees are grafted. The rootstock is a hardy one (eg resistant to root disease) and/or a dwarf one and the scion is cut from of a known good fruiting performer, you probably won't get either of these benefits but you might still get a nice apple tree, it's a matter of chance. David |
apple trees from seed
Thank you! the link was very informative and have it saved. My seeds grew so fast at first I thought them weeds or sunflowers. But they're apple. Six years is a long time but it'll be worth the wait. Donna in WA "brooklyn1" wrote in message ... On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:43:49 -0700, "DEM" wrote: I found a couple of old apple trees that produced the best apples I had since a child. I have always wanted to try planting apple seeds and now with these two wonderful apple seeds, I did just that. I have two apple trees (same tree) that grew almost 3 ft in one year! I'm ready to plant them in the ground as soon as the weather cools. The other apple seeds that I planted, are just now popping up in my make-shift hot box. My question....will these trees produce anything near to their mother plant? I have other dwarf apple trees and I'm not worried about pollination. But I don't know what if any type of apples these trees will produce. Is a seed a seed and will it keep growing and be like the mother seed from which it came? :) Donna in WA http://www.gardeningtipsnideas.com/2...m_se eds.html |
apple trees from seed
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:43:49 -0700, "DEM" wrote:
I found a couple of old apple trees that produced the best apples I had since a child. I have always wanted to try planting apple seeds and now with these two wonderful apple seeds, I did just that. I have two apple trees (same tree) that grew almost 3 ft in one year! I'm ready to plant them in the ground as soon as the weather cools. The other apple seeds that I planted, are just now popping up in my make-shift hot box. My question....will these trees produce anything near to their mother plant? I have other dwarf apple trees and I'm not worried about pollination. But I don't know what if any type of apples these trees will produce. Is a seed a seed and will it keep growing and be like the mother seed from which it came? :) Donna in WA Maybe, odds are against it. You best bet is to get a branch of the tree which you enjoyed the fruit and graft it onto a well-established apple tree. You want a tree with an excellent root stock for starters, then you can graft (up to ~150) varieties onto it. |
apple trees from seed
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:38:04 -0700, "DEM" wrote:
Thank you! the link was very informative and have it saved. My seeds grew so fast at first I thought them weeds or sunflowers. But they're apple. Six years is a long time but it'll be worth the wait. Donna in WA "brooklyn1" wrote http://www.gardeningtipsnideas.com/2...m_se eds.html Six years is way too long on a maybe. Go to a local nursery and buy some fruit trees (they don't cost much), you'll have apples by the second year. |
apple trees from seed
Thank you! the link was very informative and have it
saved. My seeds grew so fast at first I thought them weeds or sunflowers. But they're apple. Six years is a long time but it'll be worth the wait. Donna in WA "brooklyn1" wrote http://www.gardeningtipsnideas.com/2...m_se eds.html Six years is way too long on a maybe. Go to a local nursery and buy some fruit trees (they don't cost much), you'll have apples by the second year. My semi-dwarf apple trees were bought by a local nursery as were my semi-dwarf cherries trees. I'm hoping to have some fruit next year on both. The seeds I planted and actually grew (not a natural green thumber) were all from decades old trees....at least 50 years old or older. They just don't make em like this any more and I'm old enough :( to know that....so since they're growing anyway, I'll just wait and see what happens. Who knows....maybe nothing. But it's worth the try. Donna in WA |
apple trees from seed
On Sep 16, 6:08*pm, "DEM" wrote:
My semi-dwarf apple trees were bought by a local nursery as were my semi-dwarf cherries trees. *I'm hoping to have some fruit next year on both. The seeds I planted and actually grew (not a natural green thumber) were all from decades old trees....at least 50 years old or older. *They just don't make em like this any more and I'm old enough :( to know that....so since they're growing anyway, I'll just wait and see what happens. Who knows....maybe nothing. * But it's worth the try. Maybe you should market those seeds, or seedlings? Karen |
apple trees from seed
"Karen" wrote in message ... On Sep 16, 6:08 pm, "DEM" wrote: My semi-dwarf apple trees were bought by a local nursery as were my semi-dwarf cherries trees. I'm hoping to have some fruit next year on both. The seeds I planted and actually grew (not a natural green thumber) were all from decades old trees....at least 50 years old or older. They just don't make em like this any more and I'm old enough :( to know that....so since they're growing anyway, I'll just wait and see what happens. Who knows....maybe nothing. But it's worth the try. Maybe you should market those seeds, or seedlings? Karen Not a bad idea. Was in touch with a company that wanted a branch from an old 75+ year King apple tree. Oh how I loved those apples as a child. I'll think about your idea....who knows! Donna in WA |
apple trees from seed
"DEM" wrote:
The seeds I planted and actually grew (not a natural green thumber) were all from decades old trees....at least 50 years old or older. *They just don't make em like this any more and I'm old enough :( to know that....so since they're growing anyway, I'll just wait and see what happens. Who knows....maybe nothing. * But it's worth the try. Actually it's not worth the try, it's a very poor investment, in a large block of wasted time and the wasted growing space, plus your hopeful expectations will ultimately be dashed... when you could have planted grafted true to form sapplings that would be productive in 2 years for like $15 each... Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, etc. sell potted fruit trees in season for cheap, the exact same trees sold at fancy schmancy nurserys for trice the price. And fruit trees require a lot of maintenence, not worth it for throw back fruit. I can see planting fruit pips from a tree you're sentimental about, for potted foliage if all you have is like one or two apartment windows, but odds of pips producing true to form fruit are slim to zero. If you live on rural acreage plant your seedlings at the edge of the woods where they can produce critter food, and probably beautiful blossoms. I wouldn't destroy them, planting trees is always a good deed, and will gift the planet same as any tree, but if it's apples you want then it's true to form grafted apple trees you need to plant. |
apple trees from seed
brooklyn1 wrote in
: "DEM" wrote: The seeds I planted and actually grew (not a natural green thumber) were all from decades old trees....at least 50 years old or older. *They just don't make em like this any more and I'm old enough :( to know that....so since they're growing anyway, I'll just wait and see what happens. Who knows....maybe nothing. * But it's worth the try. Actually it's not worth the try, it's a very poor investment, in a large block of wasted time and the wasted growing space, plus your hopeful expectations will ultimately be dashed... when you could have planted grafted true to form sapplings that would be productive in 2 years for like $15 each... Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, etc. sell potted fruit trees in season for cheap, the exact same trees sold at fancy schmancy nurserys for trice the price. And fruit trees require a lot of maintenence, not worth it for throw back fruit. I can see planting fruit pips from a tree you're sentimental about, for potted foliage if all you have is like one or two apartment windows, but odds of pips producing true to form fruit are slim to zero. If you live on rural acreage plant your seedlings at the edge of the woods where they can produce critter food, and probably beautiful blossoms. I wouldn't destroy them, planting trees is always a good deed, and will gift the planet same as any tree, but if it's apples you want then it's true to form grafted apple trees you need to plant. and how do you think new apples come into being? by grafting trees? nope. you have to start by planting seeds. some are ok, some are really really good. you won't get bad fruit from seed, and you might get something great. for old fogies like you, maybe planting fruit seeds takes too long, but (thankfully) we aren't all like you, willing to buy trash trees at WalMart. lee |
apple trees from seed
enigma wrote:
and how do you think new apples come into being? by grafting trees? nope. you have to start by planting seeds. some are ok, some are really really good. you won't get bad fruit from seed, and you might get something great. for old fogies like you, maybe planting fruit seeds takes too long, but (thankfully) we aren't all like you, willing to buy trash trees at WalMart. lee You might get something great, but it's a long shot. Most apple orchards plant crabapples for pollinators because they produce a *lot* of pollen over a long blooming season. Even an apple that is worthless for eating might be really good for making cider or jelly. If (when) your apple tree eventually fruits and they are nasty little disease-ridden crabapples, you can still graft a named variety (or two) onto the tree and convert it over in a couple of years to a grafted tree without totally losing all those years you waited. Or just enjoy your unique crabapple tree for what it is. Bob |
apple trees from seed
The seeds I planted and actually grew (not a natural green thumber) were all from decades old trees....at least 50 years old or older. They just don't make em like this any more and I'm old enough :( to know that....so since they're growing anyway, I'll just wait and see what happens. Who knows....maybe nothing. But it's worth the try. Donna in WA I'm jumping in late to this thread .. sorry. Can anyone say whether-or-not directly planting "branch-clones" of old fruit trees will produce the same fruit of the original tree ? "branch clones" being the result of girding & rooting a branch _ON_ a fruit tree - then cutting and re-planting it. ... or does this rooty-branch need to be grafted to a strong root stock ? later on. The property where I grew up has some ancient fruit trees - 3 or 4 apple and 1 winter pear - that might be worth preserving. John T |
apple trees from seed
hubops wrote:
The seeds I planted and actually grew (not a natural green thumber) were all from decades old trees....at least 50 years old or older. They just don't make em like this any more and I'm old enough :( to know that....so since they're growing anyway, I'll just wait and see what happens. Who knows....maybe nothing. But it's worth the try. Donna in WA I'm jumping in late to this thread .. sorry. Can anyone say whether-or-not directly planting "branch-clones" of old fruit trees will produce the same fruit of the original tree ? "branch clones" being the result of girding & rooting a branch _ON_ a fruit tree - then cutting and re-planting it. .. or does this rooty-branch need to be grafted to a strong root stock ? later on. The property where I grew up has some ancient fruit trees - 3 or 4 apple and 1 winter pear - that might be worth preserving. John T A simple Google search will lead you to numerous articles on just this question. You can also contact your state agricultural extension service for answers. Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_tree_propagation |
apple trees from seed
hubops wrote:
The seeds I planted and actually grew (not a natural green thumber) were all from decades old trees....at least 50 years old or older. They just don't make em like this any more and I'm old enough :( to know that....so since they're growing anyway, I'll just wait and see what happens. Who knows....maybe nothing. But it's worth the try. Donna in WA I'm jumping in late to this thread .. sorry. Can anyone say whether-or-not directly planting "branch-clones" of old fruit trees will produce the same fruit of the original tree ? "branch clones" being the result of girding & rooting a branch _ON_ a fruit tree - then cutting and re-planting it. .. or does this rooty-branch need to be grafted to a strong root stock ? later on. The property where I grew up has some ancient fruit trees - 3 or 4 apple and 1 winter pear - that might be worth preserving. John T It should work. If you want to search for information, the technical term is "air layering". I air layered a magnolia limb when i was a kid just to see if i could. The resulting magnolia tree in my parents' yard is pretty big now. You could also harvest some "bud wood" or "scion wood" and graft it to another apple tree to keep the old variety going. HTH, bob |
apple trees from seed
On 9/18/2009 2:31 PM, hubops wrote:
The seeds I planted and actually grew (not a natural green thumber) were all from decades old trees....at least 50 years old or older. They just don't make em like this any more and I'm old enough :( to know that....so since they're growing anyway, I'll just wait and see what happens. Who knows....maybe nothing. But it's worth the try. Donna in WA I'm jumping in late to this thread .. sorry. Can anyone say whether-or-not directly planting "branch-clones" of old fruit trees will produce the same fruit of the original tree ? "branch clones" being the result of girding & rooting a branch _ON_ a fruit tree - then cutting and re-planting it. .. or does this rooty-branch need to be grafted to a strong root stock ? later on. The property where I grew up has some ancient fruit trees - 3 or 4 apple and 1 winter pear - that might be worth preserving. John T Your rooted branches will bear the same type of fruit as the parent. However, the resulting non-grafted tree MIGHT not be as vigorous or long-lived. On the other hand, the resulting tree MIGHT be even more vigorous than the parent. Grafting is supposed to provide healthy, vigorous roots. However, the graft point is often a weak point that can inhibit the growth of the scion above it. An "own root" tree (one that is not grafted to a root stock) will not send up root suckers that must be removed. Any suckers from an "own root" tree will be more of the same variety as the tree's parent; they should be removed only if you want a tree and not a shrub. On a grafted tree, root suckers can eventually dominate the entire plant and cause the scion above the graft to die; thus, such suckers must always be removed. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
apple trees from seed
zxcvbob wrote in
: enigma wrote: and how do you think new apples come into being? by grafting trees? nope. you have to start by planting seeds. some are ok, some are really really good. you won't get bad fruit from seed, and you might get something great. for old fogies like you, maybe planting fruit seeds takes too long, but (thankfully) we aren't all like you, willing to buy trash trees at WalMart. You might get something great, but it's a long shot. Most apple orchards plant crabapples for pollinators because they produce a *lot* of pollen over a long blooming season. great is actually a relative term, as well. i like hard, sour apples. my ex liked mealy, mild apples. obviously he wouldn't think an apple that i think is great was worth bothering with :) i happen to like eating crabapples... ;) Even an apple that is worthless for eating might be really good for making cider or jelly. exactly. If (when) your apple tree eventually fruits and they are nasty little disease-ridden crabapples, you can still graft a named variety (or two) onto the tree and convert it over in a couple of years to a grafted tree without totally losing all those years you waited. Or just enjoy your unique crabapple tree for what it is. yeah, the big issue with seed grown apples might be disease resistance... i got the feeling that the seeds the OP had were from an old family tree, so there may be less possibility of cross pollenation with other types of apples. but, yes, if the seedlings aren't true to the apples she wants, she can use them to graft branches from the old trees she wants to save. not everyone cares for dwarf trees, either, and height can be controled by pruning. lee |
apple trees from seed
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
... enigma wrote: and how do you think new apples come into being? by grafting trees? nope. you have to start by planting seeds. some are ok, some are really really good. you won't get bad fruit from seed, and you might get something great. for old fogies like you, maybe planting fruit seeds takes too long, but (thankfully) we aren't all like you, willing to buy trash trees at WalMart. lee You might get something great, but it's a long shot. I'm not so sure of that. Each year we taste test apples that grow on trees that have grown from seed and there are many very good tasting apples from these trees. The apple trees all grow along a very quiet country road that has very limited maintenance done on it. The trees are obviously the product of discarded apple cores flung from passing cars. Most of the apples are very edible and a few trees always have superb apples. |
apple trees from seed
On Sep 19, 7:31*am, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
I'm not so sure of that. *Each year we taste test apples that grow on trees that have grown from seed and there are many very good tasting apples from these trees. The apple trees all grow along a very quiet country road that has very limited maintenance done on it. *The trees are obviously the product of discarded apple cores flung from passing cars. *Most of the apples are very edible and a few trees always have superb apples. I really want to break out in song, "Johhhhhnny Appleseed, Appleseed Johnny!" you never know! Karen |
apple trees from seed
David Hare-Scott wrote:
There are two reasons why you might not get a tree that you like. One is that if the original was grafted (and the seedling obviously isn't) the different root stock may change the nature of the tree and its hardiness, although it shouldn't have much direct effect on the fruit. The second is that when grown from seed there is a degree of genetic variation due to random recombination of genes from the parents, this is more marked if the pollinator is another variety. I would add that the odds of getting a decent apple from a planted seed are almost too small to make it worthwhile. I have seen figures of one in ten thousand will work. There are some good varieties called 'chance seedlings', where a tree dropped an apple and the seeds produced something worthwhile. The number of these chance seedlings is very small, perhaps less than a few dozen. When you consider the millions of such trees grown by chance like this, the odds do not seem to favor good results from planting a tree from a seed. It is a genetic thing as the seed can carry recessive genes for several generations back. This soup of various genes almost always comes out badly, as the seed grows. If you want to propagate an old tree, cut a twig of new growth from the tree in early spring while the tree is dormant. Graft that onto some compatible apple rootstock ( I would recommend a dwarfing rootstock ). The advantages are that you will get an EXACT copy of your original tree. The dwarfs are easier to maintain and will yield fruit sooner than a seedling, sometimes in the season after the graft is done. Grafting is not difficult. Just get a sharp knife, some tape to wrap it, and a rubber band to hold it together. There are many web sites that describe the process in detail. You can also send the twig (scion wood) to various nurseries that will make the tree for you. I should mention there is no problem grafting this twig onto an existing tree, if it is done correctly. I would discourage people from buying fruit trees from Home Depot, Walmart, etc., unless price is the first consideration. These trees are often mislabeled, as I found out myself a few years ago. Go to a reliable nursery, or order a tree from one of the better nurseries, like Raintree in California. Sherwin You mention dwarf trees, dwarfing is done by grafting good fruiting wood on to dwarf rootstock. Your seedlings will not be dwarfs unless from dwarf fruiting wood which is probably not the case. Commercially raised apple trees are grafted. The rootstock is a hardy one (eg resistant to root disease) and/or a dwarf one and the scion is cut from of a known good fruiting performer, you probably won't get either of these benefits but you might still get a nice apple tree, it's a matter of chance. David |
apple trees from seed
sherwin dubren wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote: There are two reasons why you might not get a tree that you like. One is that if the original was grafted (and the seedling obviously isn't) the different root stock may change the nature of the tree and its hardiness, although it shouldn't have much direct effect on the fruit. The second is that when grown from seed there is a degree of genetic variation due to random recombination of genes from the parents, this is more marked if the pollinator is another variety. I would add that the odds of getting a decent apple from a planted seed are almost too small to make it worthwhile. I have seen figures of one in ten thousand will work. That's interesting can you recall where you saw that? David |
apple trees from seed
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:13:09 -0500, sherwin dubren
wrote: David Hare-Scott wrote: There are two reasons why you might not get a tree that you like. One is that if the original was grafted (and the seedling obviously isn't) the different root stock may change the nature of the tree and its hardiness, although it shouldn't have much direct effect on the fruit. The second is that when grown from seed there is a degree of genetic variation due to random recombination of genes from the parents, this is more marked if the pollinator is another variety. I would add that the odds of getting a decent apple from a planted seed are almost too small to make it worthwhile. I have seen figures of one in ten thousand will work. There are some good varieties called 'chance seedlings', where a tree dropped an apple and the seeds produced something worthwhile. The number of these chance seedlings is very small, perhaps less than a few dozen. When you consider the millions of such trees grown by chance like this, the odds do not seem to favor good results from planting a tree from a seed. It is a genetic thing as the seed can carry recessive genes for several generations back. This soup of various genes almost always comes out badly, as the seed grows. If you want to propagate an old tree, cut a twig of new growth from the tree in early spring while the tree is dormant. Graft that onto some compatible apple rootstock ( I would recommend a dwarfing rootstock ). The advantages are that you will get an EXACT copy of your original tree. The dwarfs are easier to maintain and will yield fruit sooner than a seedling, sometimes in the season after the graft is done. Grafting is not difficult. Just get a sharp knife, some tape to wrap it, and a rubber band to hold it together. There are many web sites that describe the process in detail. You can also send the twig (scion wood) to various nurseries that will make the tree for you. I should mention there is no problem grafting this twig onto an existing tree, if it is done correctly. I would discourage people from buying fruit trees from Home Depot, Walmart, etc., unless price is the first consideration. These trees are often mislabeled, as I found out myself a few years ago. Go to a reliable nursery, or order a tree from one of the better nurseries, like Raintree in California. Perhaps you just got unlucky... sometimes the tags drop off and then reattached haphazardly... I've heard stories of privately owned nursery personel going around sabotaging the big box nursery stock by switching labels... don't know how true. But those big box plants come from the same wholesale nurserys that supply the more expensive privately owned nurseries. The only real benefit to buying fruit trees from the privately owned nurseries is that they will often have larger/older specimens that are burlap balled... the big box stores typically sell young saplings in pots... but the trees are the same quality. Fruit trees are the most inexpensive plants sold, they're not big moneymakers regardless, a potted four year old sapling will cost like $15, whereas a balled and burlapped six year old sapling will cost $30, twice as much but not any fortune. Retail nurseries don't even carry a large stock of fruit trees because the typical homeowner may occasionally buy a couple but most buy none.. those that don't get sold quickly become a total loss or once the planting time has passed they are given away at cost (50% off). Commercial orchard growers buy from the wholesalers and/or graft their own. I've purchased plants from privately owned nurseries that were mislabled too; gingko and holly come to mind, and many times veggies are mislabeled... I've learned to buy my veggie plants half from one nursery and half from another... too many times bell peppers turned out to be jalopeno, and beefsteak tomato turned out to be yellow roma. Even packets of seed can be mislabled, I've bought yellow crookneck seed that turned out to be green pattypan. |
apple trees from seed
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:28:08 +1000, "David Hare-Scott"
wrote: sherwin dubren wrote: David Hare-Scott wrote: There are two reasons why you might not get a tree that you like. One is that if the original was grafted (and the seedling obviously isn't) the different root stock may change the nature of the tree and its hardiness, although it shouldn't have much direct effect on the fruit. The second is that when grown from seed there is a degree of genetic variation due to random recombination of genes from the parents, this is more marked if the pollinator is another variety. I would add that the odds of getting a decent apple from a planted seed are almost too small to make it worthwhile. I have seen figures of one in ten thousand will work. That's interesting can you recall where you saw that? I have five apple trees growing on my property (that I know of) that were obviously seeded from animal droppings, each produces different fruit in abundance but not worth eating by humans, all small, mishapen, dry, and extremely sour fruit... but the critters definitely enjoy partaking. I toss apple cores from perfectly good fruit off my back deck all the time, I've seen the deer eating their prizes. I'm positive that's how those freak apple trees come to grow on my property, probably from someone elses cores, I haven't been here long enough for my cores to have produced such large trees... and critters travel long distances to forage, those apple seeds could have come from miles away. I had a great uncle whose hobby was growing miniature landscapes is tiny pots, some in toothpaste caps, he would plant the seeds from fruit he bought, apple, pear, citrus, they grew and some even produced fruit, but none one would eat. You have better odds of winning the lottery than of planting apple trees from seed that produces edible fruit. |
apple trees from seed
In article , "DEM"
wrote: I found a couple of old apple trees that produced the best apples I had since a child. I have always wanted to try planting apple seeds and now with these two wonderful apple seeds, I did just that. I have two apple trees (same tree) that grew almost 3 ft in one year! I'm ready to plant them in the ground as soon as the weather cools. The other apple seeds that I planted, are just now popping up in my make-shift hot box. My question....will these trees produce anything near to their mother plant? I have other dwarf apple trees and I'm not worried about pollination. But I don't know what if any type of apples these trees will produce. Is a seed a seed and will it keep growing and be like the mother seed from which it came? :) Donna in WA Talk about a perennial. This discussion about growing fruit trees from seed comes up every year. -- - Billy Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.* ~Channing E. Phillips Israeli Settlers Attack Palestinian Land http://i2.democracynow.org/2009/7/22/headlines#7 http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn |
apple trees from seed
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
sherwin dubren wrote: David Hare-Scott wrote: There are two reasons why you might not get a tree that you like. One is that if the original was grafted (and the seedling obviously isn't) the different root stock may change the nature of the tree and its hardiness, although it shouldn't have much direct effect on the fruit. The second is that when grown from seed there is a degree of genetic variation due to random recombination of genes from the parents, this is more marked if the pollinator is another variety. I would add that the odds of getting a decent apple from a planted seed are almost too small to make it worthwhile. I have seen figures of one in ten thousand will work. That's interesting can you recall where you saw that? It certainly doesn't accord with the seedling apples we sample each year. They've all been edible but some are truly superb. |
apple trees from seed
"Billy" wrote in message
In article , "DEM" wrote: I found a couple of old apple trees that produced the best apples I had since a child. I have always wanted to try planting apple seeds and now with these two wonderful apple seeds, I did just that. I have two apple trees (same tree) that grew almost 3 ft in one year! I'm ready to plant them in the ground as soon as the weather cools. The other apple seeds that I planted, are just now popping up in my make-shift hot box. My question....will these trees produce anything near to their mother plant? I have other dwarf apple trees and I'm not worried about pollination. But I don't know what if any type of apples these trees will produce. Is a seed a seed and will it keep growing and be like the mother seed from which it came? :) Donna in WA Talk about a perennial. This discussion about growing fruit trees from seed comes up every year. :-)) Yep. |
apple trees from seed
David Hare-Scott wrote:
sherwin dubren wrote: David Hare-Scott wrote: There are two reasons why you might not get a tree that you like. One is that if the original was grafted (and the seedling obviously isn't) the different root stock may change the nature of the tree and its hardiness, although it shouldn't have much direct effect on the fruit. The second is that when grown from seed there is a degree of genetic variation due to random recombination of genes from the parents, this is more marked if the pollinator is another variety. I would add that the odds of getting a decent apple from a planted seed are almost too small to make it worthwhile. I have seen figures of one in ten thousand will work. That's interesting can you recall where you saw that? David I have seen it in several places. Here is one I can remember in which they say the following: There are some 18,000 apple trees in the U of M's breeding orchards. The university has one of the three largest apple breeding programs in the country. For every 10,000 trees, he may only get one producing apples good enough for release. The reference is as follows: http://wcco.com/findingminnesota/u.a...ectflash=false Notably, they are talking about apples good enough for release, but I think this is an indication of the low success rate in growing decent apples from seed. However, these guys are experts and are picking out the best candidates to get even these meager results. Sherwin |
apple trees from seed
how in the heck did Johnny Appleseed do it?
Donna in WA "sherwin dubren" wrote in message ... David Hare-Scott wrote: sherwin dubren wrote: David Hare-Scott wrote: There are two reasons why you might not get a tree that you like. One is that if the original was grafted (and the seedling obviously isn't) the different root stock may change the nature of the tree and its hardiness, although it shouldn't have much direct effect on the fruit. The second is that when grown from seed there is a degree of genetic variation due to random recombination of genes from the parents, this is more marked if the pollinator is another variety. I would add that the odds of getting a decent apple from a planted seed are almost too small to make it worthwhile. I have seen figures of one in ten thousand will work. That's interesting can you recall where you saw that? David I have seen it in several places. Here is one I can remember in which they say the following: There are some 18,000 apple trees in the U of M's breeding orchards. The university has one of the three largest apple breeding programs in the country. For every 10,000 trees, he may only get one producing apples good enough for release. The reference is as follows: http://wcco.com/findingminnesota/u.a...ectflash=false Notably, they are talking about apples good enough for release, but I think this is an indication of the low success rate in growing decent apples from seed. However, these guys are experts and are picking out the best candidates to get even these meager results. Sherwin |
apple trees from seed
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:12:03 -0700, "DEM" wrote:
how in the heck did Johnny Appleseed do it? Donna in WA Legend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed |
apple trees from seed
brooklyn1 writes:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:12:03 -0700, "DEM" wrote: how in the heck did Johnny Appleseed do it? Donna in WA Legend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed From same article: Some even make the claim that the Rambo was "Johnny Appleseed's favorite variety", ignoring that he had religious objections to grafting and preferred wild apples to all named varieties. It appears most nurseries are calling the tree the "Johnny Appleseed" variety, rather than a Rambo. Unlike the mid-summer Rambo, the Johnny Appleseed variety ripens in September and is a baking/applesauce variety similar to an Albemarle Pippen. So it appears, Johnny Appleseed did plant seeds, and was content to live with the results. |
apple trees from seed
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:25:16 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote: wrote: brooklyn1 writes: On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:12:03 -0700, "DEM" wrote: how in the heck did Johnny Appleseed do it? Donna in WA Legend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed From same article: Some even make the claim that the Rambo was "Johnny Appleseed's favorite variety", ignoring that he had religious objections to grafting and preferred wild apples to all named varieties. It appears most nurseries are calling the tree the "Johnny Appleseed" variety, rather than a Rambo. Unlike the mid-summer Rambo, the Johnny Appleseed variety ripens in September and is a baking/applesauce variety similar to an Albemarle Pippen. So it appears, Johnny Appleseed did plant seeds, and was content to live with the results. The results are what's subjective. You weren't supposed to notice that. Now you're being silly... also mentions how all JA trees are now from grafts. Fact is that from other net sources much about JA is myth... and fact is that way back then (when horticulture was barely hocus pocus) apples were not eaten out of hand, they were used to make booze... any crappy fruit can be used to make booze.... the grape wine folks pay big bucks for is made from grapes unsuitable to be eaten out of hand. http://americanhistory.suite101.com/...hnny_appleseed |
apple trees from seed
DEM wrote:
how in the heck did Johnny Appleseed do it? Donna in WA Johnny Appleseed gathered much of his seeds from Cider Press locations. Yes, he planted many of these seeds. However, the pioneers and farmers who used these apple trees did not grow them for eating out of hand. Almost all of them were turned into cider, which disguises a lot of problems, or they were used to feed the animals. Sherwin |
apple trees from seed
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message
Johnny Appleseed gathered much of his seeds from Cider Press locations. Yes, he planted many of these seeds. However, the pioneers and farmers who used these apple trees did not grow them for eating out of hand. Almost all of them were turned into cider, which disguises a lot of problems, or they were used to feed the animals. If you know that, then you might also know that cider varieties are not the same as eating apples. The impact of this on seedling apples down through the years because of cider apple varieties will be..........???? (NB: this is a rhetorical question) Each time this subject comes up, you insist that seedling apples will not be worth eating. Each time this subject comes up I similarly insist that the apples from seedling I access are quite edibvle and sometimes really superb eating. Localised conditions can impact on progeny. |
apple trees from seed
brooklyn1 wrote in
: any crappy fruit can be used to make booze.... WRONG! crappy fruit makes crappy booze. but you love your Boone's Farm & wouldn't know good cider if it bit you in the ass lee |
apple trees from seed
sherwin dubren wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote: sherwin dubren wrote: David Hare-Scott wrote: There are two reasons why you might not get a tree that you like. One is that if the original was grafted (and the seedling obviously isn't) the different root stock may change the nature of the tree and its hardiness, although it shouldn't have much direct effect on the fruit. The second is that when grown from seed there is a degree of genetic variation due to random recombination of genes from the parents, this is more marked if the pollinator is another variety. I would add that the odds of getting a decent apple from a planted seed are almost too small to make it worthwhile. I have seen figures of one in ten thousand will work. That's interesting can you recall where you saw that? David I have seen it in several places. Here is one I can remember in which they say the following: There are some 18,000 apple trees in the U of M's breeding orchards. The university has one of the three largest apple breeding programs in the country. For every 10,000 trees, he may only get one producing apples good enough for release. The reference is as follows: http://wcco.com/findingminnesota/u.a...ectflash=false Notably, they are talking about apples good enough for release, but I think this is an indication of the low success rate in growing decent apples from seed. However, these guys are experts and are picking out the best candidates to get even these meager results. Sherwin Thanks David |
apple trees from seed
FarmI wrote:
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message Johnny Appleseed gathered much of his seeds from Cider Press locations. Yes, he planted many of these seeds. However, the pioneers and farmers who used these apple trees did not grow them for eating out of hand. Almost all of them were turned into cider, which disguises a lot of problems, or they were used to feed the animals. If you know that, then you might also know that cider varieties are not the same as eating apples. There are no hard fast rules about certain apples being better for cider. Some are specifically designated as cider apples and for the most part, they are not better for much else. The impact of this on seedling apples down through the years because of cider apple varieties will be..........???? (NB: this is a rhetorical question) Each time this subject comes up, you insist that seedling apples will not be worth eating. Each time this subject comes up I similarly insist that the apples from seedling I access are quite edibvle and sometimes really superb eating. You obviously have different taste buds that most people. Quit encouraging people to grow apples from seeds. It wastes their time and is a big dissappointment after years of effort in raising them. By the way, which varieties have you planted from seed that you think came out ok? Sherwin Localised conditions can impact on progeny. |
apple trees from seed
DEM wrote:
"Karen" wrote in message ... On Sep 16, 6:08 pm, "DEM" wrote: My semi-dwarf apple trees were bought by a local nursery as were my semi-dwarf cherries trees. I'm hoping to have some fruit next year on both. The seeds I planted and actually grew (not a natural green thumber) were all from decades old trees....at least 50 years old or older. They just don't make em like this any more and I'm old enough :( to know that....so since they're growing anyway, I'll just wait and see what happens. Who knows....maybe nothing. But it's worth the try. Maybe you should market those seeds, or seedlings? Karen Not a bad idea. Was in touch with a company that wanted a branch from an old 75+ year King apple tree. Oh how I loved those apples as a child. I just made cider from a neighbor's apples that I think were Kings. I used to have a tree of kings, which fell over a few years ago. This cider is REALLY good. There are a few kings in the Piper orchard in Carkeek park in NW Seattle. |
apple trees from seed
enigma wrote:
brooklyn1 wrote in : any crappy fruit can be used to make booze.... WRONG! crappy fruit makes crappy booze. but you love your Boone's Farm & wouldn't know good cider if it bit you in the ass lee My understanding is that for making hard cider, the best apples are not the same as the apples people like to eat. Crabapples, for instance are a positive addition to a batch. |
apple trees from seed
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:34:02 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote: enigma wrote: brooklyn1 wrote in : any crappy fruit can be used to make booze.... WRONG! crappy fruit makes crappy booze. but you love your Boone's Farm & wouldn't know good cider if it bit you in the ass lee My understanding is that for making hard cider, the best apples are not the same as the apples people like to eat. Crabapples, for instance are a positive addition to a batch. When I said booze I literally meant booze... any apples, the worst eating apples are great for making jack... doesn't even need to be all apples, add some currants for color... I once blew up a heavy duty 5 gallon stainless steel vacuum bottle making apple jack from dehy apples and raisins (forgot to crack the vent). |
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