But unless you are a rhody collector, why would you want to? Why limit
yourself to
one plant family when there are scores of others that will offer a much more
expanded range of interest - foliage color and texture

I wasn't suggesting that one stick to one type of plant, nor do I do that (I
include many others - Acers, Magnolias, Stewartias, with the rhodos as the
mostly middle (and sometimes lower) stratum of the garden. Lots of interest all
season long.

I just don't bother with annuals!

Plato wrote:

So, my wife, being a fan of Azaleas, wants to know why none of the
landscapers want to keep them, and why absolutely none of the three
designs we have received thus far call for using any type of azalea or
rhododendron (which she also likes).

What do I tell her?

Off hand, the only reason I can think of is that maybe they will not be
well suited for the site, in terms of their sun/shade requirements or
some such. Honestly, I would ask them why they are not reusing existing
plant material, especially things you like. Since you said that you
don't really know what you want, here are a couple of suggestions:

Observe the conditions in the planting area that is being redesigned.
How much sun or shade is it getting? At what time of the day is there
shade? Does that come from trees or structures such as fence/house?
How easy can it be watered? What sort of "look" do you want (look
through a few gardening books at Borders or Barnes and Noble for
ideas)? How much work are you willing to do WRT maintaining, pruning,
feeding, weeding, etc.? Take a drive through some of the older, more
established neighborhoods to see different types of plants and their
uses. The Merrifield Garden Center near Fair Oaks has done a fantastic
job of landscaping the stretch of land around them, and can be really
useful for getting ideas. Their staff is also knowledgeable, and if you
ask them for "interesting" shrubs for your kind of setting, might be
able to give you pointers. Betty's Azalea Ranch a few hundred feet from
Merrifield has a *huge* selection of Azaleas and Rhodos of all sorts,
and since they are most likely in full bloom right now, would be worth a
trip if you wanted to pick out some of the more interesting cultivars.
The National Arboretum in DC has a "hill" that is completely covered
with Rhodos/Azaleas, and would also be a worthwhile trip for you if you
are interested (check to make sure that they are in bloom before
going). There should also be plenty of garden tours happening in the
area, so check out the Thursday Post to see if there are any in your
area that you could attend over the weekend.

I live in Fairfax (3 year old house, BTW), and quite honestly am
disappointed by the professional jobs that most people get. I strongly
suspect that people ask for a low maintenance garden that looks all
right year round, and end up with a whole bunch of liriope, Euonymus,
Nandina and Juniper, which fit the bill, but is terribly boring and look
just like everyone else's yard. I have a serious interest in gardening
and enjoy the process, so am doing the landscaping myself, a tiny bit at
a time. It isn't neat and tidy, and most definitely doesn't look like a
professional job, but loosely organized chaos is what I'm aiming for.

Suja

In article ,
(Bill Spohn) wrote:

But unless you are a rhody collector, why would you want to? Why limit
yourself to
one plant family when there are scores of others that will offer a much more
expanded range of interest - foliage color and texture

I wasn't suggesting that one stick to one type of plant, nor do I do that (I
include many others - Acers, Magnolias, Stewartias, with the rhodos as the
mostly middle (and sometimes lower) stratum of the garden. Lots of
interest all
season long.

I have dispersed a collection of North American native deciduous shrubs
throughout the gardens. Mount Airy fothergilla, Black Choke Cherry,
Snowberry, evergreen & deciduous huckleberry bushes, red-flowering &
white-flowering currants, Summersweet, western syringa, pacific elderberry
(more of a tree in height), Rosy Spirea (S. densiflora), highbush
cranberries.... not to mention many Asian & a few European shrubs. I just
love woody shrubs so much. I do regard the rhodies as the height of woody
shrub perfection of beauty & elegance & variety -- & certainly not merely
because of the incredible blooms. Yet the completely wild snowberry & the
Rosy Spirea & huckleberries &c are also amazing wonders to me. The early
blooms of the currants are now gone, but now I am watching green berries
with pink nipples as they begin their slow journey toward red; & the
stinky big fluffy flowers on the Pacific elder were numerous this year, so
I get to watch as those berries develope even at eye level (last year
there were only a few berries about fifteen feet up top so I couldn't
watch them develop). This morning on garden rounds, things that especially
caught my eye were those developing currant berries, the rosy spirea
"buttons" of pink buds nearly ready to burst into flower, the highbush
cranberries with circles of sterile flowers hemming in the fertile central
buds as yet unopened, & the glassy red-orange berries on the
winterblooming honeysuckle.

But there's also a 'common' ironclad I stood gazing at most intensely in
small part because of this thread. Some little bits negative have been
written in this thread about the old Ironclads being too common & even I
called a taste for them in some cases plebian, so I stood looking at
common ol' "Catawba Album" barely able to comprehend how anything so
beautiful could exist. Mine is about four feet tall & six or seven feet
wide, a very old specimen given to me along with several other large old
shrubs in trade for some landscaping assistance. It's not densely leafed
so a very visible structure, it has these wide-reaching lightning-twisted
limbs that bend down a little slope culminating in a "hug" of a cherry
tree's trunk, & this wonderful structure & unusual interaction with the
cherry is lovely even without blooms. But right now it is heavily
sprinkled with enormous trusses of white flowers with golden-green hearts
that can almost cause the heart to skip a beat. A common & unbeatable
variety. Near it are things that bloom later or earlier -- a little
Chinese lepidote species shrub extremely mature at three feet by two feet
that bloomed early, a diablo ninebark that'll bloom later, an hishiki
willow that looks like it has pink blooms even when it has none, & under
these, bulbs & perennials with their seasons, right now the creeping
climbing hardy geraniums are becoming especially flowery.

I just don't bother with annuals!

I often try "tender perennials" that end up being defacto annuals,
elsetimes establish well & don't seem so tender after all. But I also
avoid annuals, though now & then my sweety plants some. I've never been
particularly fond of stuff that seems to be gardened exclusively for the
blooms then have to die. I wonder how many others bypass annuals in favor
of plants with at least a bit more permanency?

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

I often try "tender perennials" that end up being defacto annuals,
elsetimes establish well & don't seem so tender after all.


You are in a pretty good area to do this (love your website, have a look at
mine, one-sided as it is - www.rhodo.citymax.com - most of the photo pages are
out of my garden).

I do the same thing and have found that I can manage tender stuff like Watsonia
(my South African secretary says it is a weed in SA!) and rhodos like R.
protistum that won't survive even where you are.

You have an impressive list of trees and bushes - had I the room, I'd have more
as well.

I also grow several Salix, dogwoods, Camelias and Viburnums, as well as oddball
stuff (Sinocalycanthus, Clerodendrum trichotomum, Proteas and others).

When I have time I'll look up a few really late rhodos for you - I'll be down
to the RSF in Federal Way on a course at the end of the month and will raise
the subject with Steve Hootman - they are a great source of rare species
material, BTW!

Hi paghat,

There is type of shrub in the world that is more exciting than a large
Exbury ...

Have just put up some pictures of the gardens at Exbury as I was there
recently:

http://inputplus.co.uk/ellen/exbury.album/

Cheers, Ellen.

In article ,
lid wrote:

Hi paghat,

There is no type of shrub in the world that is more exciting than a large
Exbury ...

Have just put up some pictures of the gardens at Exbury as I was there
recently:

http://inputplus.co.uk/ellen/exbury.album/

Cheers, Ellen.

That is just super, too damn bad someone would have to be a billionaire to
live in a paradise like that!
Here's my "Whitethroat" Exbury in spring:
http://www.paghat.com/azalea_whitethroat.html
and in autumn:
http://www.paghat.com/autumnleaves7.html

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Have just put up some pictures of the gardens at Exbury as I was there
recently:

Thank you - excellent!

In article ,
(Bill Spohn) wrote:

I often try "tender perennials" that end up being defacto annuals,
elsetimes establish well & don't seem so tender after all.


You are in a pretty good area to do this (love your website, have a look at
mine, one-sided as it is - www.rhodo.citymax.com - most of the photo pages are
out of my garden).

Alas & Alack! My netscape navigator browser could not reach the website.
So I tried granny artemis's computer which is much bigger & uses netscape
communicator. The loads took about three minutes per page, all your garden
photos were broken links. Maybe it's server proplem & I can reach the site
on another day. Or maybe it was set up to be viewed only with rotten
Microsoft programs -- some people have elaborate websites generated with
microsoft programs & only readable with microsoft programs, & don't even
know it unless they experiment visiting their own site with various kinds
of browsers & on different sorts of computers.

When I have time I'll look up a few really late rhodos for you - I'll be down
to the RSF in Federal Way on a course at the end of the month and will raise
the subject with Steve Hootman - they are a great source of rare species
material, BTW!

The majority though not quite all of my species rhodies came from RSF.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Pam expounded:

But unless you are a rhody collector, why would you want to? Why limit yourself to
one plant family when there are scores of others that will offer a much more
expanded range of interest - foliage color and texture, other flower forms, winter
berries or stem color, midsummer or late winter fragrance, fall foliage color,
wildlife attraction, etc., etc., etc. And even though one can indeed find species
of rhodies that will offer blooms outside of the normal April-May-June period, they
too have a short bloom period, leaving only the green (mostly) foliage to remain
for the rest of the year.

Never mind the fact that some of the rhody plants are just plain ugly
when they're out of bloom, big rangey things, like Olin O. Dobbs,
which is absolutely breathtaking the two weeks he's in blossom. My
neighbor is a rhody collector of some renown, I've got acres of them
surrounding my property (lucky me!!) but I have to say some of the
plants leave a lot to be desired when they're not blooming.

--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

Alas & Alack! My netscape navigator browser could not reach the website.
So I tried granny artemis's computer which is much bigger & uses netscape
communicator. The loads took about three minutes per page, all your garden
photos were broken links.

Perhaps a temporary problem?

Please try again and let me know if it doesn't work for you (I have to have it
accessible to club members with a wide variety of equipment/software!)

Plato wrote:

Our house is about a year old and resides in Northern Virginia.
So, my wife, being a fan of Azaleas, wants to know why none of the
landscapers want to keep them, and why absolutely none of the three
designs we have received thus far call for using any type of azalea or
rhododendron (which she also likes).

They are just steering you to easy to grow plants that will do well
for anyone. Rhododendrons and Azaleas need some work.
1) They have shallow roots so need the maintenance of a good mulch to
keep weeds out. You cannot cultivate around them because of the
shallow roots.
2) They need an acidic soil. If you soil is very alkaline, you will
have to apply powdered sulfur or iron sulfate occasionally to keep the
soil acidic. The leaves turn yellow (chlorotic) when they need acid.

3) You are in a climate that is too hot for some rhododendrons but
perfect for most all azaleas. If you are in northwest Virginia you
are in a colder climate that is better for many rhododendrons.

Visit a garden center that has a lot of nice locally field grown
rhododendrons and azaleas and ask who they would recommend to do a
landscape plan. They may do it themselves. If you are in zone 7 or
8 the following will do best in your area:

Large Leaved Rhododendrons (Elepidotes):
‘Album Elegans' white
‘Arthur Bedford' stunning blotch
‘Bellringer'
‘Cadis'
‘Caroline'
‘Catawbiense Boursault' violet
‘County of York' or 'Catalode' large white flowers
‘English Roseum' pink
‘Gigi' bright pink
‘Janet Blair'
‘Maxecat'
'Parker's Pink
'Roseum Elegans'
'Roseum Pink'
'Scintillation' good leaf and flower
'Vivacious'
'Wheatley'
R. fortunei
Small Leaved Rhododendrons (Lepidotes):
PJM Group
R. minus
Deciduous Azaleas (bright colors and very hardy):
‘Cecile'
‘Gibralter'
‘Gold Crest'
‘Homebush'
‘Toucan'
R. atlanticum
R. calendulaceum
R. canescens
R. prunifolium
R. viscosum

Evergreen Azaleas (more subdued colors and less hardy):
‘Coral Bells'
‘Dream'
‘Elizabeth Gable'
‘Elsie Lee'
‘Girard's Hot Shot'
‘Glacier'
‘Gloria' (Bobbink & Atkins)
‘Gumpo White'
‘Gumpo'
‘H. H. Hume'
‘Herbert'
‘Hershey's Bright Red' a good red from southern Pennsylvania
‘Hino-crimson'
‘Martha Hitchcock'
‘Palestrina'
‘Stewartstonian' the red that just bloomed.
‘Roehr's Tradition'
R. kaempferi
R. yedoense var. poukhanense

Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://www.users.fast.net/~shenning/rhody.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://members.aol.com/rhodyman/rhodybooks.html

Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA

(paghat) wrote:
Mine go from March to July. What might be choice August bloomers in zone
8, if I may enquire?

Encore Azaleas bloom twice a year, once in spring and once in fall.

Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://www.users.fast.net/~shenning/rhody.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://members.aol.com/rhodyman/rhodybooks.html

Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA

In article ,
(Steve Henning) wrote:

Plato wrote:

Our house is about a year old and resides in Northern Virginia.
So, my wife, being a fan of Azaleas, wants to know why none of the
landscapers want to keep them, and why absolutely none of the three
designs we have received thus far call for using any type of azalea or
rhododendron (which she also likes).

They are just steering you to easy to grow plants that will do well
for anyone. Rhododendrons and Azaleas need some work.
1) They have shallow roots so need the maintenance of a good mulch to
keep weeds out. You cannot cultivate around them because of the
shallow roots.

Although this is "popular wisdom," really it depends on what "cultivate
around" means. Beyond the drip line, no restrictions at all, the roots
rarely extend far. But immediately under the shrub? Dig no big holes, of
course. But small starts of hardy geraniums or heucheras or bishop's hats
could be inserted amidst the shallow roots of rhodies without harm to the
rhodies; these will be spreading clumps that can never be dug up for
division because mixed up with the rhody roots, but can be limited in
their spread by yanking. Small starts of cyclamens are particularly good
choices; A. E. Bowles recommended them at the base of rhodies. Even some
small spring-flowering bulbs can be inserted amidst rhody roots (under
deciduous azaleas if the bulbs will need plenty of late winter/early
spring sunlight, under elepidotes if like scilla they like the shade).
The oldest rhody on my property which I call "similar to Lee's Purple"
because I don't quite know for certain what cultivar it may be, has
underneath it decades-naturalized scillas & grape hyacinths growing right
up to the trunk; they probably were never planted there so no one dug into
the roots, but they self-seeded into that location. The shrub is so not
bothered it blooms twice a year (reliable autumn rebloom in Zone 8 -- not
unheard of for Lee's Dark Purple but not common either).

Certainly if you dug a big hole for a gallon pot of the same perennials
right under a rhody, root damage would be expected, but the roots aren't
unwilling to share the ground if a two or three inch start of someting is
inserted & allowed to spread in its own good time. Creeping groundcovers
like India Strawberry can be superior to insect- & fungus-encouraging
chip mulches to protect shallow root systems from overheating in summer or
freezing in winter.

So occasionally popular wisdom turns out to be mere cliche repeated by
rote without trials, & when actually tested end up being to one degree or
another incorrect.

2) They need an acidic soil. If you soil is very alkaline, you will
have to apply powdered sulfur or iron sulfate occasionally to keep the
soil acidic. The leaves turn yellow (chlorotic) when they need acid.

Ref the Edinburg study. Long-term happy outcomes are not likely by
acidifying limestone soils. There are many alkaline-tolerant
species-rhodies to select instead. The rule of thumb should be to plant
for one's regionally natural soils, not against nature.

-paghat the ratgirl

3) You are in a climate that is too hot for some rhododendrons but
perfect for most all azaleas. If you are in northwest Virginia you
are in a colder climate that is better for many rhododendrons.

Visit a garden center that has a lot of nice locally field grown
rhododendrons and azaleas and ask who they would recommend to do a
landscape plan. They may do it themselves. If you are in zone 7 or
8 the following will do best in your area:

Large Leaved Rhododendrons (Elepidotes):
‘Album Elegans' white
‘Arthur Bedford' stunning blotch
‘Bellringer'
‘Cadis'
‘Caroline'
‘Catawbiense Boursault' violet
‘County of York' or 'Catalode' large white flowers
‘English Roseum' pink
‘Gigi' bright pink
‘Janet Blair'
‘Maxecat'
'Parker's Pink
'Roseum Elegans'
'Roseum Pink'
'Scintillation' good leaf and flower
'Vivacious'
'Wheatley'
R. fortunei
Small Leaved Rhododendrons (Lepidotes):
PJM Group
R. minus
Deciduous Azaleas (bright colors and very hardy):
‘Cecile'
‘Gibralter'
‘Gold Crest'
‘Homebush'
‘Toucan'
R. atlanticum
R. calendulaceum
R. canescens
R. prunifolium
R. viscosum

Evergreen Azaleas (more subdued colors and less hardy):
‘Coral Bells'
‘Dream'
‘Elizabeth Gable'
‘Elsie Lee'
‘Girard's Hot Shot'
‘Glacier'
‘Gloria' (Bobbink & Atkins)
‘Gumpo White'
‘Gumpo'
‘H. H. Hume'
‘Herbert'
‘Hershey's Bright Red' a good red from southern Pennsylvania
‘Hino-crimson'
‘Martha Hitchcock'
‘Palestrina'
‘Stewartstonian' the red that just bloomed.
‘Roehr's Tradition'
R. kaempferi
R. yedoense var. poukhanense

Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://www.users.fast.net/~shenning/rhody.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://members.aol.com/rhodyman/rhodybooks.html

Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

In article ,
(Steve Henning) wrote:

(paghat) wrote:
Mine go from March to July. What might be choice August bloomers in zone
8, if I may enquire?

Encore Azaleas bloom twice a year, once in spring and once in fall.

Thanks Steve! I'll look into Encores & see what's up for those. I actually
do have two late rebloomers -- a Korean Azalea Poukahense, & one elepidote
(probably "Lee's Dark Purple") that rebloom in autumn, & the literature
I've consulted suggests this isn't rare, but it's not predictably likely
for zone 8 either. I sometimes forget to think of them as late blooming
because they're only for-sure SUPPOSED to bloom in spring. I was assuming,
in addition to these mere-luck rebloom specimens, that there might
actually be some extreme natural late-bloomers, as some few
ground-covering dwarfs bloom naturally in July. I can't recall references
to rhodies that bloom primarily August/Sept, except subtropicals I can't
grow.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

On 14 May 2003 12:47:35 -0700, (Steve Henning)
wrote:

Plato wrote:

Our house is about a year old and resides in Northern Virginia.
So, my wife, being a fan of Azaleas, wants to know why none of the
landscapers want to keep them, and why absolutely none of the three
designs we have received thus far call for using any type of azalea or
rhododendron (which she also likes).

They are just steering you to easy to grow plants that will do well
for anyone. Rhododendrons and Azaleas need some work.
1) They have shallow roots so need the maintenance of a good mulch to
keep weeds out. You cannot cultivate around them because of the
shallow roots.
2) They need an acidic soil. If you soil is very alkaline, you will
have to apply powdered sulfur or iron sulfate occasionally to keep the
soil acidic. The leaves turn yellow (chlorotic) when they need acid.

3) You are in a climate that is too hot for some rhododendrons but
perfect for most all azaleas. If you are in northwest Virginia you
are in a colder climate that is better for many rhododendrons.

I wonder. Azaleas seem oddly variable. I had some installed in SE
Virginia 15 years ago. I believe they were carefully planted, but I
haven't done diddly squat since except some occasional pruning since.
No fertilizer; no water-from-a-hose; no nothing. Will have to post
pics of this year's bloom-covered bushes. Their situation is on the
east (shady) side of the house, in somewhat acidic soil conditions.
Across the street, I helped someone plant 6 smallish plants in a row,
4 of which survived and flourished -- not A, B, C, D ok and E & F
failed, but A B c D e F. Weird. Sunny side of that house.

Part of the reluctance of landscapers to include Azaleas may be
because they're "common." Not fancy; not new; cynically, not a big
markup possible for the plants. Few will pay $60 for an Azalea when
they're 3/$10 in the supermarket. Not a shining example of innovative
design in a landscaper's portfolio. :-)

I just wish they'd bloom longer.