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Comments on shade perennials
Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Medium Astrantia 'Hadspen Blood' Anemone 'Honorine Jobert' Thelypteris Kunthii Tricyrtis hirta Tall Fallopia Japonica 'variegata' Thalictrum Aquil. Purpureum Lobelia Cardinalis 'Ruby Slipper' Cimicifuga racemosa Thanks much, Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
AFAIC, every shade plant is a must!! For some practical info, I have found
that astrantias will bloom much more heavily and for a longer period if placed in more sun - all of mine (9 varieties - I like these guys!) are located in only partial shade, perhaps 4 hours of sun. Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? pam - gardengal Suja wrote: Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Medium Astrantia 'Hadspen Blood' Anemone 'Honorine Jobert' Thelypteris Kunthii Tricyrtis hirta Tall Fallopia Japonica 'variegata' Thalictrum Aquil. Purpureum Lobelia Cardinalis 'Ruby Slipper' Cimicifuga racemosa Thanks much, Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
Pam wrote: Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? Well, the plan was to add some broadleaf evergreen shrubs for winter interest. The problem is that I can't add anything to the list without dropping something (total of about 60 plants, so I really have to restrict myself some so this doesn't end up looking completely haphazard). Any suggestions for shade tolerant grasses? The only thing I could think of was carex (no liriope - I *hate* it), and its structure doesn't really appeal to me. Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
"Suja" wrote in message ... Pam wrote: Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? Well, the plan was to add some broadleaf evergreen shrubs for winter interest. The problem is that I can't add anything to the list without dropping something (total of about 60 plants, so I really have to restrict myself some so this doesn't end up looking completely haphazard). Any suggestions for shade tolerant grasses? The only thing I could think of was carex (no liriope - I *hate* it), and its structure doesn't really appeal to me. Suja I grown variegated ribbon grass in an area such as you describe. I think it will grow ANYWHERE! |
Comments on shade perennials
clc wrote: I grown variegated ribbon grass in an area such as you describe. I think it will grow ANYWHERE! It is considered invasive, and I'm trying to stay away from plants I need to do battle with. I have my hands full with Japanese Anemone Robustissima (losing battle), Scabiosa ochroleuca, Knautia, etc. Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:13:44 -0500, Suja wrote:
clc wrote: I grown variegated ribbon grass in an area such as you describe. I think it will grow ANYWHERE! It is considered invasive, and I'm trying to stay away from plants I need to do battle with. I have my hands full with Japanese Anemone Robustissima (losing battle), Scabiosa ochroleuca, Knautia, etc. Suja Yes, ribbon grass is very invasive. Have you considered Chasmanthium litifolium aka Inland sea oats? I grow them here in calciferous soil in pretty dense shade and it does very well. It will reseed, but is not terribly invasive in my shade bed. It is a very hardy plant. |
Comments on shade perennials
In article , Suja
wrote: Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Always lovely, evergreen in zone 8 though scruffy by winter's end, I suppose it would die back in zone 6. Photo of its leaves in one of the prettiest moments on this page: http://www.paghat.com/epimedium.html Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Don't recognize the specific cultivar but heucheras tend to need more sun than shade. But are adaptable & will tolerate shade, though may remain mediocre plants the first two years taking longer to establish good root system, but thereafter can have spectacular leaf traits seasonally changing colors -- minor for bloom usually though some cultivars' tall spray of teency blooms are bright pink so have a bit more presence. Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Hardier than the dickens & easily spread themselves about. Ideal shade plants but also do well in considerable light, so can be put anywhere. Long bloom period right up to winter then brief period of die-back. Doesn't die back in summer unless in a sunny dry location, where it can be surprisingly drought hardy even so & will return with autumn rains. I've a page for it he http://www.paghat.com/dicentraeximia.html Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Easy to establish, extremely cold-hardy, unique blue-green leaves make it a high fern choice, though the deeper the shade the less bluishness to the color so it needs a bit of light to look unique. Of the many ferns in my gardens, though, the hands-down favorite is Polystichum polyblepharum, Japanese Tassel Fern. In my zone (8) it is fully evergreen; it thrives down to zone 6 without even stretching the point, but I don't know whether or not it would have the same sure winter presence. Even without the strong evergreen quality, though, it is just a beautiful-beautiful fern, deepest shiny green, & when it has the young leaf "tassels," oooo. Here's my page for it: http://www.paghat.com/tasselfern.html Missing from your fuller list are any corydalises. Many of them do spectacularly in your zone & are as lively as Dicentra exima with even odder bright long-lasting blooms. But off the top of my head I can only think of ones for my zone 8, but you should look up ones that do well for your zone. I presently have four corydalis species plus cultivars within species -- & won't hesitate to add others. For a shade guarden I put them WAY ahead of heucheras, tiarellas, dicentras. One that does well in my garden but is actually more appropriate for your zone is C. lutea shown he http://www.paghat.com/corydalisyellow.html Two superb short evergreen shrubs for shade are wintergreen & lingonberry, your zone would suit them excellently. Wintergreen flowers & berries are best in considerable shade (I have a long patch that starts in deep shade, ends in morning sun, & the morning sun end has remained comparatively stunted while the stuff in shade has spread & grown a great deal). Wintergreen is slow spread at first, especially if you start with 4" pots of it, but once established, a lush little groundcover with great seasonal leaf colorations, small white bell-flowers, & large bright edible berries. My page for it is he http://www.paghat.com/wintergreen.html By comparison Lingonberry establishes very quickly & spreads considerably, except the ultra-dwarf kind that stays an inch or two tall, that one seems to spread awfully slowly, but the foot-tall ones spread fast. They flower twice a year; they don't berry as well in deep shade so need light shade. Both of these shade evergreens are ultra cold hardy with year-round presence, so when the majority of things you've listed have died back, there's still these little berry-bright evergreens going gung ho. Page for it he http://www.paghat.com/lingonberry.html Shade gardening is just the most fun. I do a lot of sun-gardening at the fringe of the property, but the interior gardens & walk-throughs are under trees & tall shrubs & just so comfortable to wander amidst. Spring through autumn it is massively densely green & flowery, but I've enough winter-oriented things that it is even great right now -- the Cyclamen coums are blooming right this minute (other cyclamens bloomed earlier in winter or late autumn), & hellebores are at the beginning of full bloom (these blooms last & last & last), the final snowberries are still on the branches though most have fallen to the ground by now, the wintergreen is ultra-colorful, & Corydalis flexusa which died back late in summer grew back gorgeously in autumn & is still a vibrant ferny-leafed presence for the height of winter. So though the dicentras & some other corydalis species & some few of the ferns & suchlike died to the ground, there's still enough lively plant presence that it is by no means moribund in winter. Plus the larger deciduous vines & shrubs pretty much across the board have excellent shapes & barks for winter. I worry a bit about my partner insisting we move to zone 5/6 where I wouldn't be able to garden year-round, but even there choices can be made that provide winter beauty rather than complete die-back of everything in the shade -- & if I lived in a place with a long period of snow, there are a few things I'd plant all over the place that don't live in zone 8, such as terrestrial orchids, most of which want a three our four month dormancy under snow, which my zone just cannot naturally provide (though I'm going to try Yellow Lady Slipper anyway, the most adaptable in a purely temperate area). -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/ |
Comments on shade perennials
In article , Suja
wrote: Pam wrote: Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? Well, the plan was to add some broadleaf evergreen shrubs for winter interest. The problem is that I can't add anything to the list without dropping something (total of about 60 plants, so I really have to restrict myself some so this doesn't end up looking completely haphazard). Any suggestions for shade tolerant grasses? The only thing I could think of was carex (no liriope - I *hate* it), and its structure doesn't really appeal to me. Suja One problem with adding the larger shrubs last is you'll disrupt or have to entirely remove the low-growing perennials after they've worked so hard to establish their root systems, & some of them will hate that & will take a long time to reestablish their own roots. I'm not as much a grass fan (though I do love lily turfs), which is why I suggested wintergreen & lingonberry for their continuing winter presence. Pam's suggestion of Iris foetidissima I would second -- I assume she knows it'll do as well in your zone as in ours. I have two varieties, the regular red-berrying one, & a yellow-orange berrying-one from Heronswood (using the term "berry" rather loosely). It can be slow to establish but that just means you have a large swordblade evergreen of considerable beauty & none of the bright berries for the first three or four years, unless you obtain an awfully big specimen to start with. I do like liriopes, but if your problem with it is L. spicita can become weedy & aggressive, you might ponder L. muscari "Lilac Beauty" which remains a tight evergreen clump (I suspect both these liriopes would suffer winter tip damage in your zone, but don't have personal experience). I'd still rate black mondo grass more highly (Ophiopogon planiscapus 'Nigrescens'). These photos of mine are a couple years old: http://www.paghat.com/mondo.html It took a while, but eventually these little clumps began to spread. Young plants erupt about a foot away from the parent & form their own little clump. If I don't like exactly where they spring up, they don't mind being moved, but for the most part they make good choices for themselves. And so far as I know, they are not going to have winter tip damage even in zone 6a. -paghat -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/ |
Comments on shade perennials
I will admit up front that yours was one of the pages I used as inspiration. I kept getting hit after hit when I was researching plants, so I stayed a bit. paghat wrote: Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' It's between that and 'Cathedral Windows'. Both can be found at bluestoneperennials. Don't recognize the specific cultivar but heucheras tend to need more sun than shade. But are adaptable & will tolerate shade, I am hoping that there is enough morning sun to pull them through. They should get a good 4 hours. though may remain mediocre plants the first two years taking longer to establish good root system, but thereafter can have spectacular leaf traits seasonally changing colors That's good to know. I can be extremely impatient with my plants. Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Hardier than the dickens & easily spread themselves about. Ideal shade plants but also do well in considerable light, so can be put anywhere. Long bloom period right up to winter then brief period of die-back. Doesn't die back in summer unless in a sunny dry location, where it can be surprisingly drought hardy even so & will return with autumn rains. Good. I love the way it looks. I have lots of woodland gardening to do (about 4 acres worth), so the babies can be put to good use. Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Easy to establish, extremely cold-hardy, unique blue-green leaves make it a high fern choice, though the deeper the shade the less bluishness to the color so it needs a bit of light to look unique. Of the many ferns in my gardens, though, the hands-down favorite is Polystichum polyblepharum, Japanese Tassel Fern. In my zone (8) it is fully evergreen; it thrives down to zone 6 without even stretching the point, but I don't know whether or not it would have the same sure winter presence. Even without the strong evergreen quality, though, it is just a beautiful-beautiful fern, deepest shiny green, & when it has the young leaf "tassels," oooo. Here's my page for it: http://www.paghat.com/tasselfern.html That looks yummy. I'll look into it. Missing from your fuller list are any corydalises. Thanks. I wrestled with that decision a great deal. I'll revisit it. species -- & won't hesitate to add others. For a shade guarden I put them WAY ahead of heucheras, tiarellas, dicentras. One that does well in my garden but is actually more appropriate for your zone is C. lutea shown he I really wanted that particular Corydalis. My biggest problem has been finding a source for it. I know that none of the local nurseries carry it, and neither do the ones I am planning on ordering from (Bluestone, Munchkins, Crownsville, Plant Delights). The only one I know that carries it is Nicholls, but if I spread my order around too much, I'll end up paying more in shipping than in plant material. I'll see if I can shuffle my plants around a bit to get this one in. Most of the shrubs I was planning on using are taller, although I'll look into the ones you mentioned. I was thinking more along the lines of leucothoe, Azaleas, Hydrangeas, etc., but haven't finalized the list yet. Shade gardening is just the most fun. I do a lot of sun-gardening at the fringe of the property, but the interior gardens & walk-throughs are under trees & tall shrubs & just so comfortable to wander amidst. I really enjoy gardening in the sun, because it doesn't require a whole lot of thinking/planning on my part. I am much more of a flower person than a foliage person, and that is so much easier to do in the sun than shade. My first shade bed that I started 2 years ago is still very much a work in progress (I've made some huge mistakes there, misjudging requirements, heights, etc.), and I am hoping that I've learned enough to make this one be less painful. I must admit that I'm putting a lot more thought into this than anything I've done previously. Thanks so much, Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
paghat wrote: One problem with adding the larger shrubs last is you'll disrupt or have to entirely remove the low-growing perennials after they've worked so hard to establish their root systems, & some of them will hate that & will take a long time to reestablish their own roots. I'm not as much a grass fan (though I do love lily turfs), which is why I suggested wintergreen & lingonberry for their continuing winter presence. I guess I wasn't clear. The shrubs will get planted with everything else. I'm still working on which ones those should be. Trying to put together a list of everything I really, really want had me going in circles, so I decided to make one list up, get done with it, and then make the other one up. Since I'll have more perennials than shrubs, I thought that should get done first. I will take a look at I.foetidissima and black mondo grass. I'm not a big Iris fan in general, but anything that provides year round interest would be a great addition. Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
Suja wrote: paghat wrote: One problem with adding the larger shrubs last is you'll disrupt or have to entirely remove the low-growing perennials after they've worked so hard to establish their root systems, & some of them will hate that & will take a long time to reestablish their own roots. I'm not as much a grass fan (though I do love lily turfs), which is why I suggested wintergreen & lingonberry for their continuing winter presence. I guess I wasn't clear. The shrubs will get planted with everything else. I'm still working on which ones those should be. Trying to put together a list of everything I really, really want had me going in circles, so I decided to make one list up, get done with it, and then make the other one up. Since I'll have more perennials than shrubs, I thought that should get done first. I will take a look at I.foetidissima and black mondo grass. I'm not a big Iris fan in general, but anything that provides year round interest would be a great addition. Suja IMO, the iris looks more like a grass than it does a lot of other irises. It is grown primarily for its valuable trait of being evergreen and readily adaptable to dry shade and the brightly colored and long lasting fruit - the flowers are quite insignifcant as irises go. I grow two different cultivars, too - the straight species and a variegated one, both produce bright, red orange, berry-like seeds. Mondo grass - regardless of color - is a great shade grass-looking plant. The black is just such a striking contrast against anything in the gold or chartreuse tones. Other than certain species of Carex, there are really no evergreen grasses for shade. Some really nice deciduous ones, though - Hakone grass, golden wood rush (Milium). Molinea. They'd add a lot of color during the growing season. pam |
Comments on shade perennials
"Suja" wrote in message
... Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Medium Astrantia 'Hadspen Blood' Love it, it does really well for me in 4 hours of sun. Anemone 'Honorine Jobert' Love it, but after it settles in it will gently spread a little and need to managed. Not a real spreader, but vigorous enough that if allowed to spread it will crowd out other plants. Thelypteris Kunthii Tricyrtis hirta Another good one. Forms lovely clumps. A must have for the shade garden is Celandine Poppy (stylophorum diphyllum) it blooms for me from June to Sept. It's not the most floriferous plant but keeps on trucking providing pretty bright yellow flowers. And don't forget Aquilegia (Columbine), mine get 4 hours on the best day and bloom like crazy. The little wild orange type grows wild on a hill under deciduous trees in my yard getting hardly any sun at all. -- Kristen Zone 6, SE NY |
Comments on shade perennials
On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 03:09:50 GMT, Pam wrote:
IMO, the iris looks more like a grass than it does a lot of other irises. It is grown primarily for its valuable trait of being evergreen and readily adaptable to dry shade and the brightly colored and long lasting fruit - the flowers are quite insignifcant as irises go. I grow two different cultivars, too - the straight species and a variegated one, both produce bright, red orange, berry-like seeds. Mondo grass - regardless of color - is a great shade grass-looking plant. The black is just such a striking contrast against anything in the gold or chartreuse tones. Other than certain species of Carex, there are really no evergreen grasses for shade. Some really nice deciduous ones, though - Hakone grass, golden wood rush (Milium). Molinea. They'd add a lot of color during the growing season. pam The iris you sent to me as a little plant now covers an area of at least 10 square feet and they've been in the ground for what, 2 years? I definitely like the red fruit and their evergreen swords! V |
Comments on shade perennials
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Comments on shade perennials
This house we bought has plenty of shade and sun! It's a very delicate
balancing act I must do. I find even some plants said to be full sun are not full sun in Texas heat. Plants which need shade, want morning sun. Some want none. I have not been able to get that balance together, yet. Heuchera is a plant I can't keep looking good. Maybe if I went back to the species instead of the more burgundy foliage, newer varieties. Maybe try Lady's Mantle this year. 'Purple Palace' sits there begging to be transported to the north! On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:33:35 GMT, Pam wrote: AFAIC, every shade plant is a must!! For some practical info, I have found that astrantias will bloom much more heavily and for a longer period if placed in more sun - all of mine (9 varieties - I like these guys!) are located in only partial shade, perhaps 4 hours of sun. Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? pam - gardengal Suja wrote: Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Medium Astrantia 'Hadspen Blood' Anemone 'Honorine Jobert' Thelypteris Kunthii Tricyrtis hirta Tall Fallopia Japonica 'variegata' Thalictrum Aquil. Purpureum Lobelia Cardinalis 'Ruby Slipper' Cimicifuga racemosa Thanks much, Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
"animaux" wrote in message Heuchera is a plant I can't keep looking good. Maybe if I went back to the species instead of the more burgundy foliage, newer varieties. Maybe try Lady's Mantle this year. 'Purple Palace' sits there begging to be transported to the north! Purple Palace is not that easy to please here in the north, either. I've moved my purple leafed ones around a good bit, trying to find a spot they like. They like shade, especially from the afternoon sun, but if it's too shady they don't color up well. They are also fussy about moisture. I've had a good experience with "Eco improved", green leaves, sort of, with cool colors in the veining. It makes itself at home, and even looks pretty good throughout the winter. It has a presence. Lady's mantle is another winner, for me. I love the way the leaves hold raindrops. It does aestivate in a hot, dry summer; I trim it back and wait for fresh new foliage. cheers, Sue Zone 6, Southcentral PA |
Comments on shade perennials
In article . net,
"SugarChile" wrote: "animaux" wrote in message Heuchera is a plant I can't keep looking good. Maybe if I went back to the species instead of the more burgundy foliage, newer varieties. Maybe try Lady's Mantle this year. 'Purple Palace' sits there begging to be transported to the north! Purple Palace is not that easy to please here in the north, either. I've moved my purple leafed ones around a good bit, trying to find a spot they like. They like shade, especially from the afternoon sun, but if it's too shady they don't color up well. They are also fussy about moisture. I experimentally planted one Purple Palace in fairly deep shade with only indirect morning sun, another was in a somewhat dryer spot with afternoon sunlight. For the first full year they were not the best looking plants in their areas by a long shot, & I often considered moving them away from path edges so they wouldn't be quite so visible, but I didn't move them. Second year they were reasonably nice plants, but not exceptional, the one in more sunlight slightly more interesting. But the third year, both became amazing plants, huge & bushy with fabulous coloration & presence; the one in deeper shade "caught up" & surprassed the one that gets more sun. Even their wussy little sprays of inconsequential flowers became gorgeous, quite bright & long-lasting. Both now achieve equally excellent colors, whether bit of sun or hardly any they look just stunning, with the one in shade being more fully evergreen through winter, getting scruffy only near spring, the one in more light is scruffy earlier in winter though not a bad presence. By just being patient with them, I ended up with a couple of great specimens, even though they came close to being banished to unimportant areas. I've the sense that they are adaptable to a broad range of conditions & will EVENTUALLY be good plants but only after their root system get big, & that could take up to two full seasons of comparative mediocrity. I later planted "Dale's Strain" heuchera which has fabulous late-winter bright-orange coloration, is the rest of the year green with silver motteling. They've only been in the ground one year so like the "Purple Palace" are not specimen-worthy at this young age, though adequate & interesting groundcovers; I'm expecting that at the end of their second year, they'll likewise begin to look exceptional. Though I've not much experience with a lot of heuchera cultivars, my sense is that the fancier ones are just slow to reach their ideal appearance & they take their time becoming awesome. I last year added tiarellas, which were delightful spring through autumn. They're supposed to be evergreen but compared to the heucheras their winter appearance is crappy, for their first winter at least. I'll be patient with them, they too may be finer plants with each year of growth, but if they continue always to be beaten-up-looking in winter, I'll probably never add others but would prefer additional heucheras. There seem to be about 40 or 50 new cultivars of tiarellas flooded onto the market, but if truth be told, only three or four strikingy different ones, the majority all look pretty much the same. I also looked at some "heucherella" hybrids last year, which were definitely more to the tiarella side & not much like heucheras in appearance & I wasn't attracted to them enough to try even one. But they were young plants & I've never seen a mature specimen of heucherella to compare. I wonder if anyone here has experience with them & can compare their performance to heucheras & tiarellas per se when well-established in a garden. -paghat the ratgirl I've had a good experience with "Eco improved", green leaves, sort of, with cool colors in the veining. It makes itself at home, and even looks pretty good throughout the winter. It has a presence. Lady's mantle is another winner, for me. I love the way the leaves hold raindrops. It does aestivate in a hot, dry summer; I trim it back and wait for fresh new foliage. cheers, Sue Zone 6, Southcentral PA -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/ |
Comments on shade perennials
Tony Avent remarked in one of his lectures that he observed a native
heuchera growing in full sun on the side of a rock in the mountains. I think this is the clue to heucheras - drainage. If they are happy growing on a rock they must need excellent drainage. Certainly I lose them to rot more than to anything else. animaux wrote: This house we bought has plenty of shade and sun! It's a very delicate balancing act I must do. I find even some plants said to be full sun are not full sun in Texas heat. Plants which need shade, want morning sun. Some want none. I have not been able to get that balance together, yet. Heuchera is a plant I can't keep looking good. Maybe if I went back to the species instead of the more burgundy foliage, newer varieties. Maybe try Lady's Mantle this year. 'Purple Palace' sits there begging to be transported to the north! On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:33:35 GMT, Pam wrote: AFAIC, every shade plant is a must!! For some practical info, I have found that astrantias will bloom much more heavily and for a longer period if placed in more sun - all of mine (9 varieties - I like these guys!) are located in only partial shade, perhaps 4 hours of sun. Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? pam - gardengal Suja wrote: Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Medium Astrantia 'Hadspen Blood' Anemone 'Honorine Jobert' Thelypteris Kunthii Tricyrtis hirta Tall Fallopia Japonica 'variegata' Thalictrum Aquil. Purpureum Lobelia Cardinalis 'Ruby Slipper' Cimicifuga racemosa Thanks much, Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 03:09:50 GMT, Pam wrote:
IMO, the iris looks more like a grass than it does a lot of other irises. It is grown primarily for its valuable trait of being evergreen and readily adaptable to dry shade and the brightly colored and long lasting fruit - the flowers are quite insignifcant as irises go. I grow two different cultivars, too - the straight species and a variegated one, both produce bright, red orange, berry-like seeds. Mondo grass - regardless of color - is a great shade grass-looking plant. The black is just such a striking contrast against anything in the gold or chartreuse tones. Other than certain species of Carex, there are really no evergreen grasses for shade. Some really nice deciduous ones, though - Hakone grass, golden wood rush (Milium). Molinea. They'd add a lot of color during the growing season. pam You sent me some of those irises and from a slip, they now cover about 10 square feet in very dry shade. Everyone asks me what they are. Their foliage is much strappier than most irises and yes, they are indeed evergreen. The hakone, well, we'll see if it returns. It had one sprig last year all year! Maybe it doesn't like the heat? V |
Comments on shade perennials
I don't lose mine, they simply don't look all that well. Could be the
calciferous soils we have in that shade bed. It is very dry under a live oak with a trunk diameter of 5 feet. They estimate that tree to be 400 years old, though there's no true way of telling with live oaks based on trunk diameter. On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:01:40 -0500, Pat Brothers wrote: Tony Avent remarked in one of his lectures that he observed a native heuchera growing in full sun on the side of a rock in the mountains. I think this is the clue to heucheras - drainage. If they are happy growing on a rock they must need excellent drainage. Certainly I lose them to rot more than to anything else. animaux wrote: This house we bought has plenty of shade and sun! It's a very delicate balancing act I must do. I find even some plants said to be full sun are not full sun in Texas heat. Plants which need shade, want morning sun. Some want none. I have not been able to get that balance together, yet. Heuchera is a plant I can't keep looking good. Maybe if I went back to the species instead of the more burgundy foliage, newer varieties. Maybe try Lady's Mantle this year. 'Purple Palace' sits there begging to be transported to the north! On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:33:35 GMT, Pam wrote: AFAIC, every shade plant is a must!! For some practical info, I have found that astrantias will bloom much more heavily and for a longer period if placed in more sun - all of mine (9 varieties - I like these guys!) are located in only partial shade, perhaps 4 hours of sun. Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? pam - gardengal Suja wrote: Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Medium Astrantia 'Hadspen Blood' Anemone 'Honorine Jobert' Thelypteris Kunthii Tricyrtis hirta Tall Fallopia Japonica 'variegata' Thalictrum Aquil. Purpureum Lobelia Cardinalis 'Ruby Slipper' Cimicifuga racemosa Thanks much, Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
I've got one inherited from my mother that takes full sun here really well,
it probably would take the Texas heat with a bit of afternoon shade. If you'd like a piece, remind me in the spring - it multiplies really well and I'll send you a chunk. Purple palace needs the closest thing I have to full shade in my yard. Carlotta Iowa (we actually made 45 degrees today, and the ground hog didn't see his shadow !) "animaux" wrote in message ... This house we bought has plenty of shade and sun! It's a very delicate balancing act I must do. I find even some plants said to be full sun are not full sun in Texas heat. Plants which need shade, want morning sun. Some want none. I have not been able to get that balance together, yet. Heuchera is a plant I can't keep looking good. Maybe if I went back to the species instead of the more burgundy foliage, newer varieties. Maybe try Lady's Mantle this year. 'Purple Palace' sits there begging to be transported to the north! On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:33:35 GMT, Pam wrote: AFAIC, every shade plant is a must!! For some practical info, I have found that astrantias will bloom much more heavily and for a longer period if placed in more sun - all of mine (9 varieties - I like these guys!) are located in only partial shade, perhaps 4 hours of sun. Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? pam - gardengal Suja wrote: Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Medium Astrantia 'Hadspen Blood' Anemone 'Honorine Jobert' Thelypteris Kunthii Tricyrtis hirta Tall Fallopia Japonica 'variegata' Thalictrum Aquil. Purpureum Lobelia Cardinalis 'Ruby Slipper' Cimicifuga racemosa Thanks much, Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
I have to replant mine every two or three years. They end up pushing their
crowns above the soil. If I don't dig and divide and replant they die out. I've got about 6 types - definitely the ones I inherited from my mom are the most hardy. Carlotta "animaux" wrote in message ... I don't lose mine, they simply don't look all that well. Could be the calciferous soils we have in that shade bed. It is very dry under a live oak with a trunk diameter of 5 feet. They estimate that tree to be 400 years old, though there's no true way of telling with live oaks based on trunk diameter. On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:01:40 -0500, Pat Brothers wrote: Tony Avent remarked in one of his lectures that he observed a native heuchera growing in full sun on the side of a rock in the mountains. I think this is the clue to heucheras - drainage. If they are happy growing on a rock they must need excellent drainage. Certainly I lose them to rot more than to anything else. animaux wrote: This house we bought has plenty of shade and sun! It's a very delicate balancing act I must do. I find even some plants said to be full sun are not full sun in Texas heat. Plants which need shade, want morning sun. Some want none. I have not been able to get that balance together, yet. Heuchera is a plant I can't keep looking good. Maybe if I went back to the species instead of the more burgundy foliage, newer varieties. Maybe try Lady's Mantle this year. 'Purple Palace' sits there begging to be transported to the north! On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:33:35 GMT, Pam wrote: AFAIC, every shade plant is a must!! For some practical info, I have found that astrantias will bloom much more heavily and for a longer period if placed in more sun - all of mine (9 varieties - I like these guys!) are located in only partial shade, perhaps 4 hours of sun. Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? pam - gardengal Suja wrote: Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Medium Astrantia 'Hadspen Blood' Anemone 'Honorine Jobert' Thelypteris Kunthii Tricyrtis hirta Tall Fallopia Japonica 'variegata' Thalictrum Aquil. Purpureum Lobelia Cardinalis 'Ruby Slipper' Cimicifuga racemosa Thanks much, Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
Sure, I'd like a piece of your garden in my garden! Is there anything I can
trade for? Do you like or need any canna's? I have 'Tropicana' 'Pretoria' aka 'Phaison' and common green with yellow flowers. On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:04:42 -0600, "CWilde" wrote: I've got one inherited from my mother that takes full sun here really well, it probably would take the Texas heat with a bit of afternoon shade. If you'd like a piece, remind me in the spring - it multiplies really well and I'll send you a chunk. Purple palace needs the closest thing I have to full shade in my yard. Carlotta Iowa (we actually made 45 degrees today, and the ground hog didn't see his shadow !) "animaux" wrote in message .. . This house we bought has plenty of shade and sun! It's a very delicate balancing act I must do. I find even some plants said to be full sun are not full sun in Texas heat. Plants which need shade, want morning sun. Some want none. I have not been able to get that balance together, yet. Heuchera is a plant I can't keep looking good. Maybe if I went back to the species instead of the more burgundy foliage, newer varieties. Maybe try Lady's Mantle this year. 'Purple Palace' sits there begging to be transported to the north! On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:33:35 GMT, Pam wrote: AFAIC, every shade plant is a must!! For some practical info, I have found that astrantias will bloom much more heavily and for a longer period if placed in more sun - all of mine (9 varieties - I like these guys!) are located in only partial shade, perhaps 4 hours of sun. Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? pam - gardengal Suja wrote: Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Medium Astrantia 'Hadspen Blood' Anemone 'Honorine Jobert' Thelypteris Kunthii Tricyrtis hirta Tall Fallopia Japonica 'variegata' Thalictrum Aquil. Purpureum Lobelia Cardinalis 'Ruby Slipper' Cimicifuga racemosa Thanks much, Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
I've only tried cannas once with such poor success, I was disappointed. But
they were given in the fall as tubers, and I think my basement was way too warm, and they were pretty shriveled roots by spring, I was not successful. I'd love too trade with you, I'd like to try a healthy canna in a pot next spring. I know very little about cannas, the most common around here are dark green with red flowers, what does the Pretoria look like? I'm redoing my back yard, remodeling last spring added a deck, and I'd like to do a different somewhat junglely look. Carlotta "animaux" wrote in message ... Sure, I'd like a piece of your garden in my garden! Is there anything I can trade for? Do you like or need any canna's? I have 'Tropicana' 'Pretoria' aka 'Phaison' and common green with yellow flowers. On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:04:42 -0600, "CWilde" wrote: I've got one inherited from my mother that takes full sun here really well, it probably would take the Texas heat with a bit of afternoon shade. If you'd like a piece, remind me in the spring - it multiplies really well and I'll send you a chunk. Purple palace needs the closest thing I have to full shade in my yard. Carlotta Iowa (we actually made 45 degrees today, and the ground hog didn't see his shadow !) "animaux" wrote in message .. . This house we bought has plenty of shade and sun! It's a very delicate balancing act I must do. I find even some plants said to be full sun are not full sun in Texas heat. Plants which need shade, want morning sun. Some want none. I have not been able to get that balance together, yet. Heuchera is a plant I can't keep looking good. Maybe if I went back to the species instead of the more burgundy foliage, newer varieties. Maybe try Lady's Mantle this year. 'Purple Palace' sits there begging to be transported to the north! On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:33:35 GMT, Pam wrote: AFAIC, every shade plant is a must!! For some practical info, I have found that astrantias will bloom much more heavily and for a longer period if placed in more sun - all of mine (9 varieties - I like these guys!) are located in only partial shade, perhaps 4 hours of sun. Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? pam - gardengal Suja wrote: Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Medium Astrantia 'Hadspen Blood' Anemone 'Honorine Jobert' Thelypteris Kunthii Tricyrtis hirta Tall Fallopia Japonica 'variegata' Thalictrum Aquil. Purpureum Lobelia Cardinalis 'Ruby Slipper' Cimicifuga racemosa Thanks much, Suja |
Comments on shade perennials
Here is a photo:
http://www.cannas.net/pages/pretorspec.htm I made an error in my post. 'Tropicana' and 'Phaison' are the same plant. On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:12:04 -0600, "CWilde" wrote: I've only tried cannas once with such poor success, I was disappointed. But they were given in the fall as tubers, and I think my basement was way too warm, and they were pretty shriveled roots by spring, I was not successful. I'd love too trade with you, I'd like to try a healthy canna in a pot next spring. I know very little about cannas, the most common around here are dark green with red flowers, what does the Pretoria look like? I'm redoing my back yard, remodeling last spring added a deck, and I'd like to do a different somewhat junglely look. Carlotta "animaux" wrote in message .. . Sure, I'd like a piece of your garden in my garden! Is there anything I can trade for? Do you like or need any canna's? I have 'Tropicana' 'Pretoria' aka 'Phaison' and common green with yellow flowers. On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:04:42 -0600, "CWilde" wrote: I've got one inherited from my mother that takes full sun here really well, it probably would take the Texas heat with a bit of afternoon shade. If you'd like a piece, remind me in the spring - it multiplies really well and I'll send you a chunk. Purple palace needs the closest thing I have to full shade in my yard. Carlotta Iowa (we actually made 45 degrees today, and the ground hog didn't see his shadow !) "animaux" wrote in message .. . This house we bought has plenty of shade and sun! It's a very delicate balancing act I must do. I find even some plants said to be full sun are not full sun in Texas heat. Plants which need shade, want morning sun. Some want none. I have not been able to get that balance together, yet. Heuchera is a plant I can't keep looking good. Maybe if I went back to the species instead of the more burgundy foliage, newer varieties. Maybe try Lady's Mantle this year. 'Purple Palace' sits there begging to be transported to the north! On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:33:35 GMT, Pam wrote: AFAIC, every shade plant is a must!! For some practical info, I have found that astrantias will bloom much more heavily and for a longer period if placed in more sun - all of mine (9 varieties - I like these guys!) are located in only partial shade, perhaps 4 hours of sun. Since the planting you describe is pretty much entirely herbaceous perennials, I'd consider adding something a little more evergreen to provide winter interest. Perhaps some Iris foetidissima, additional heucheras, an evergreen shade grass and some EG ferns and maybe a hellebore or two? pam - gardengal Suja wrote: Before I actually order these plants and put them in the ground, I need a reality check from those who have actual experience with them. I am putting in a shade bed in front of the house (North facing, with morning sun in the summer), and this is my short list of the plants I'm planning on getting. The soil is clay (but amended), zone 6b/7a, Northern VA. If I have left out anything that is a MUST HAVE for a shade garden (no hostas please, deer problem; much as I'd love to have Brunnera 'Jack Frost', I can't afford it right now), please let me know. Short Epimedium Sulphureum Heuchera 'Persian Carpet' Dicentra Exima 'Snowdrift' Athyrium nipponicum 'Pictum' Medium Astrantia 'Hadspen Blood' Anemone 'Honorine Jobert' Thelypteris Kunthii Tricyrtis hirta Tall Fallopia Japonica 'variegata' Thalictrum Aquil. Purpureum Lobelia Cardinalis 'Ruby Slipper' Cimicifuga racemosa Thanks much, Suja |
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