Again, you are confusing two different neem oil products -- the insecticide
concentrates versus the home use oils.

And I have used it in the bath. It cleared up some itchy skin areas (several
months of itchiness on a knee and a shoulder) AND made my hair so soft and
fluffy, more so than any other conditioner I've used since I was a kid, that
I had to get my hair cut! Cleared up the dry skin on my scalp under the band
of my baseball cap, too, so it doesn't itch. I had no idea it would make my
hair so soft! And as a work-at-home dad in his thirties, I really couldn't
care less either...but it did.

And I have terrible gums so I even tried a couple drops rubbed on my teeth
and gums with my fingers. My gums don't hurt for the first time in decades.

It isn't just religious...it does do stuff. Just like Melaleuca the
Australian "Wonder Tree" Oil is over-hyped but does actually do some of the
things they used to talk about all the time.

Regarding my earlier comment arguing with Victoria about whether it was an
insecticide in that it killed insects and I said it was against Aphids in my
yard -- further research has taught me that it doesn't kill softbodied
insects directly; rather, it clogs their nostrils and they suffocate. But,
hey, as long as they are dead, they are still dead!

I've been using it for a month now and see no ill effects on Lady Bugs,
grasshoppers (unfortunately -- though they will not eat a plant sprayed with
it)...

John


"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article 1056264490.991105@yasure, "Valkyrie"
wrote:

"des weges" wrote in message
...


biodegradeable and of very low toxicity even used in toothpaste

Why would you need an insecticidal toothpaste?

Just curious,
Val

In India where it is used for religious reasons, it is in shampoo because
it casts away the demons of baldness & makes your hair a shimmering river
like the hair of Shiva, & it is in toothpaste because it scares away the
evil spirits of tooth decay, & it is beauty creams rubbed on the face so
that you can become as beautiful as Radha. Leaves are chewed after
funerals to keep death-spirits from entering the bodies of the living
through the mouth. It is burned as evidence or strewn in doorways to keep
evil spirits away.

Science outside of India indicates it is toxic if injested or rubbed on
the skin, but so far most of the studies have been funded by Indic
interests for religious reasons. Even outside India, fact is, in much of
the world, superstition & religion all too often trumps science, & when
independent science is as lacking as it is at present, any old claim can
fill in.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

I think you may be confusing NEEM with Tea Tree Oil.


On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:08:37 -0500, "John T. Jarrett"
wrote:

Again, you are confusing two different neem oil products -- the insecticide
concentrates versus the home use oils.

And I have used it in the bath. It cleared up some itchy skin areas (several
months of itchiness on a knee and a shoulder) AND made my hair so soft and
fluffy, more so than any other conditioner I've used since I was a kid, that
I had to get my hair cut! Cleared up the dry skin on my scalp under the band
of my baseball cap, too, so it doesn't itch. I had no idea it would make my
hair so soft! And as a work-at-home dad in his thirties, I really couldn't
care less either...but it did.

And I have terrible gums so I even tried a couple drops rubbed on my teeth
and gums with my fingers. My gums don't hurt for the first time in decades.

It isn't just religious...it does do stuff. Just like Melaleuca the
Australian "Wonder Tree" Oil is over-hyped but does actually do some of the
things they used to talk about all the time.

Regarding my earlier comment arguing with Victoria about whether it was an
insecticide in that it killed insects and I said it was against Aphids in my
yard -- further research has taught me that it doesn't kill softbodied
insects directly; rather, it clogs their nostrils and they suffocate. But,
hey, as long as they are dead, they are still dead!

I've been using it for a month now and see no ill effects on Lady Bugs,
grasshoppers (unfortunately -- though they will not eat a plant sprayed with
it)...

John


"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article 1056264490.991105@yasure, "Valkyrie"
wrote:

"des weges" wrote in message
...


biodegradeable and of very low toxicity even used in toothpaste

Why would you need an insecticidal toothpaste?

Just curious,
Val

In India where it is used for religious reasons, it is in shampoo because
it casts away the demons of baldness & makes your hair a shimmering river
like the hair of Shiva, & it is in toothpaste because it scares away the
evil spirits of tooth decay, & it is beauty creams rubbed on the face so
that you can become as beautiful as Radha. Leaves are chewed after
funerals to keep death-spirits from entering the bodies of the living
through the mouth. It is burned as evidence or strewn in doorways to keep
evil spirits away.

Science outside of India indicates it is toxic if injested or rubbed on
the skin, but so far most of the studies have been funded by Indic
interests for religious reasons. Even outside India, fact is, in much of
the world, superstition & religion all too often trumps science, & when
independent science is as lacking as it is at present, any old claim can
fill in.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:08:37 -0500, "John T. Jarrett"
wrote:

Again, you are confusing two different neem oil products -- the insecticide
concentrates versus the home use oils.

In article ,
wrote:

I think you may be confusing NEEM with Tea Tree Oil.

Neem oil as used in shampoo & soaps in India, & as worshipped as Sitala's
or Kali's magic tree, is the same species used in pesticides -- in all
uses, it is Azadirachta indica; certainly the degree of toxicity varies,
though when azadarachin is present, it is toxic & really should be avoided
in skin-contact products, let alone in orally or anally taken
folk-medications.

The shampoos even claim to BE pesticides under the assumption that anyone
dumpingt toxins on their heads probably have plenty of lice, ticks, &
fleas to get rid of. One widely distributed brand is sold whimsically as
"Neem Bug-free Shampoo", recommended both for ones flea-bitten dog, & for
ones personal hair care. All from the same tree, & the primary difference
is that in cosmetic & hiegiene products it is mixed with other ingredients
& considerably diluted. The companies that sell Neem as magic hair care &
suchlike do sometimes also sell extracts of evening primrose, jojoba, tea
tree, aloa, white angelica, or combination formulas. But the majority of
neem companies are quite specialized & will sell ten, fifteen, twenty
different neem products covering all your needs as bath oil for skin
diseases, herbal medicines for fevers, garden pesticides, soaps, facial
cremes, fumigants, & for magic rituals. There are not very good controls
for public safety for the imported products & should all be regarded as
potential hazards, but then, so is household bleach & suchlike startlingly
dangerous, so everyone makes their own choice as to which toxins are
acceptable to be exposed to daily.

Sitala is accompanied by an appallingly ugly female minion who a Fever
Goddess, Raktavati, the Blood Maiden, & the neem tree is sometimes called
Fever Tree after Sitala's companion. "Today Neem is valued more highly for
its capacity to exorcise the demons of disease than the spirits of the
dead, and an image of the goddess Sitala or Mariamman can [often] be seen
suspended from a branch where She guards against small pox" [N. Madasamy
]. All over India but especially in the south, one sees pots of water
sitting on roofs; these contain water for Sitala & Raktavati, who ride
over the rooftops together on the back of a tiger whose claws bare sundry
diseases. If the water pot is empty, they may scourge that household.

The Neem tree is also a manifestation of Mariamma (spelt by Madasamy as
Mariamman; she has many names), called Red Lotus Lady, one of the most
important Tamil divinities today, sometimes regarded as one & the same
with Sitala. In some areas she possesses sizeable temples & is served by
Brahmins, but it is more common in villages that a peasant priestess
oversees her worship & propitiation. Her legendary priest Poturaja, king
of the buffalos, serves as Mariamma¹s herald; his role is reenacted by a
pariah at her festivals. She is a grama devata or chief village goddess,
daughter of Bhagavan & Adi, her mother Adi being a supernally beautiful
pariah. She is by nature violent, but if propitiated becomes violent only
against those who would harm the faithful (she does battle against
diseases in particular, though they are her own offspring). She exudes a
poisonous liquid from her eyes, which she can spray upon any who would
laugh in her presence (a neem oil myth that acknowledges toxicity, though
the same toxin heals those who have "tamed" her bug-eyed fanged wildness &
made her their protective grama devata). Most "Village Ammas" are
worshipped as big rocks rather than as idols, but Mariamma frequently is
honored as a neem tree or at the base of a neem tree, though also
sometimes as a boulder (I believe this primitive form of worship is
prehistoric & predates the making of idols, when an interesting geological
feature was sufficient to honor Divinity). An important feature of Sitala
worship is that she (like most Village Ammas, & hugely unlike Kali) has no
consort & never had one; possibly a prehistoric form of monotheism as
Sitala is not dualistic unless her maidenly consort Raktavati is regarded
as Sitala's sakti).

Tea Tree (Melaleuca alternifolia) does not have an old presence in India,
being an introduced species, & is not associated with Sitala, nor does it
have a radicalized a religious following. But it is nevertheless sacred, &
those who do worship the Tea Tree consider it as a manifestation of Chandi
(when used medicinally) or Laksmi (when used for pleasanter things), &
have tried to find reference to the tea tree in the Vedas, without regard
for it being unknown at the time of those writings. Chandi, who resembles
Kali & typically regarded as an older form of Kali, according to the Devi
Mahatmya sprang from a single hair of Durga (or from Durga's comb), to
assist in a cosmic war to save the gods, all male divinity being helpless
but for this all-powerful devi. Because Kali has a generalized rule of
herbal medicines, M. alternifolia extracts are often sold in Her honor or
for Her blessing, called Goddess-this-or-that tea in all seriouslyness;
but the association is neither ancient nor radicalized in the way Neem
worship has given a slanted coloration to virtually all Indic research on
its medicinal, beauty, & gardening values.

See Shakti Gupta's PLANT LIFE AND TRADITIONS IN INDIA, 1979, for a lot of
this sort of information.

Because I have access to one of the best saktist libraries in English
language anywhere in the United States (the U.W. has an extravagant
collection of everything from major books to rare & minor shrine pamphlets
-- some written charmingly in very poor English & published as Goddess
offerings distributed to tourists in the hope of inducing saktism
world-wide), I was able to create a large data base while reading through
this collection, of Indic plant lore & goddess lore generally, that may
someday become a book, though in the meantime I find it often useful for
stuff that would've long ago flitted from memory if I couldn't refer to it
whenever needed.

One of my favorite religious plant stories regards Dhatri who is
represented by the Gooseberry-tree. She is the product of a divine lesbian
union. Parvati & Laksmi were her parents, & in this role are represented
by the banana tree, because bananas function as dildos. Sounds comical,
but taken quite seriously in particular by lesbian saktists in India
today. Parvati is a pretty form of spooky Kali, & tough-acting
mean-scowling Kali bikunis can be spotted all over India who are vowed to
never marry but are bonded together; they dress all in red, & make their
living by painting portraits of Kali or Parvati to sell to people of faith
or to tourists. They are inspired by the tale that Parvati & Laksmi went
on a pilgrimage together when Parvati had the idea to worship Visnu in a
new manner, and Laksmi thought she'd similarly like to worship Siva in a
new manner (which is to say, Laksmi would honor Siva through his bride, &
Parvati would honor Visnu through his bride). They joined together in
sexual union & birthed Dhatri from the sweat of their bodies. The banana
tree is thus said to be an erotic manifestation of Laksmi & Parvati as a
single entity.

Such excellently perverse myths are not embraced merely in specialized
contexts of Kali women sworn to one another, so Dhatri has quite a wide
following since through her one has access to Parvati, Laksmi, Siva, &
Visnu simultaneously. In October & November, women worship Parvati &
Laksmi's daughter Dhatri with offerings of flowers, sandlewood paste, &
vermillion, placed at the base of gooseberry trees. Dhatri sometimes
emulates her co-mothers in her love for the beautiful goddess Tulasi, who
manifests as a basil plant. Of course some disapprove of all this & say
Dhatri was born of Brahma & Sarasvati, & her love for Tulasi is only
sisterly. As a "medical" goddess, Dhatri is invoked for safe Caesarean
section when delivering an infant of a dead mother.

-paghat the ratgirl

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:08:37 -0500, "John T. Jarrett"
wrote:

Again, you are confusing two different neem oil products -- the insecticide
concentrates versus the home use oils.

And I have used it in the bath. It cleared up some itchy skin areas (several
months of itchiness on a knee and a shoulder) AND made my hair so soft and
fluffy, more so than any other conditioner I've used since I was a kid, that
I had to get my hair cut! Cleared up the dry skin on my scalp under the band
of my baseball cap, too, so it doesn't itch. I had no idea it would make my
hair so soft! And as a work-at-home dad in his thirties, I really couldn't
care less either...but it did.

And I have terrible gums so I even tried a couple drops rubbed on my teeth
and gums with my fingers. My gums don't hurt for the first time in decades.

It isn't just religious...it does do stuff. Just like Melaleuca the
Australian "Wonder Tree" Oil is over-hyped but does actually do some of the
things they used to talk about all the time.

Regarding my earlier comment arguing with Victoria about whether it was an
insecticide in that it killed insects and I said it was against Aphids in my
yard -- further research has taught me that it doesn't kill softbodied
insects directly; rather, it clogs their nostrils and they suffocate. But,
hey, as long as they are dead, they are still dead!

I've been using it for a month now and see no ill effects on Lady Bugs,
grasshoppers (unfortunately -- though they will not eat a plant sprayed with
it)...

John


"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article 1056264490.991105@yasure, "Valkyrie"
wrote:

"des weges" wrote in message
...


biodegradeable and of very low toxicity even used in toothpaste

Why would you need an insecticidal toothpaste?

Just curious,
Val

In India where it is used for religious reasons, it is in shampoo because
it casts away the demons of baldness & makes your hair a shimmering river
like the hair of Shiva, & it is in toothpaste because it scares away the
evil spirits of tooth decay, & it is beauty creams rubbed on the face so
that you can become as beautiful as Radha. Leaves are chewed after
funerals to keep death-spirits from entering the bodies of the living
through the mouth. It is burned as evidence or strewn in doorways to keep
evil spirits away.

Science outside of India indicates it is toxic if injested or rubbed on
the skin, but so far most of the studies have been funded by Indic
interests for religious reasons. Even outside India, fact is, in much of
the world, superstition & religion all too often trumps science, & when
independent science is as lacking as it is at present, any old claim can
fill in.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/


--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

actually commercial neem insecticides are in fact different from pure neem oil.
the majority of commercial products use what is called "clarified hydrophobic extract of neem oil"
PURE neem oil is actually quite safe relative to this extract