JNJ wrote:

... "(H) When water from the municipal system becomes available to any
dwelling, the owner shall provide water from that system and immediately
abandon the private supply."

Under this chapter I likely cannot even create a large receptacle for
capturing rainwater for use in anything but gardening/agriculture and even
then there are further regulations...




As I recall, you stated in an earlier post that you had problems with
water in your basement. The town should have no objection to your
putting in a french drain (sometimes called a fringe drain) which is
just a way to intercept groundwater before it reaches your basement and
redirect it elsewhere. Naturally, you will have to find some place to
redirect the water to. The garden comes to mind. Two problems solved?

animaux wrote:

... At least with rainwater, it comes from the sky, over the
roof and into the system. Filtering out the sediment from the roof is far
easier than filtering the 70+ toxins found in tap water, on any given day...



There are soluble contaminants in rainwater also, which don't just
filter out. The contaminants depend on which way the wind is blowing,
what industries are upwind from you, and the time of year and business
climate for those industries. You may have to treat the water somehow.
Before you spend any significant money, collect some water from the roof
over a long period of time and have it tested.

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:36:25 -0400, "JNJ" wrote:


After a review of relevant code, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.
Municipal code specifically prohibits anyone within the city limits from
having an operating cistern or well where city water is available. Needless
to say, that puts a bit of a kink in the works. Might need to do a little
political activism on this 'un.

BTW, did I mention that the water utility is owned and operated as a
department of the city?

We're fortunate that our water is actually pretty good quality as far as
city water goes, but I'd still prefer to get it myself and save the $$$.

Do you have a breakdown of what the levels of nitrates, nitrites,
organophosphate, herbicides, pathogens, and other toxic elements found in city
water? If not, to say you have pretty good quality water is not adequate
enough for me. Our water has more chlorine, now chloramine than our swimming
pool. I don't allow my bird to drink it...let alone us.

That said, I live in Austin, Texas, where the Edwards Aquifer is our most
precious commodity. The city of Austin sells rainwater collection barrels from
the Smith and Hawken supplier at a fraction of the cost. They actually lose 35
dollars on each one they sell because of the kick back they get from the water
authority.

I don't know where you live or how many inches of water rains down on you, but
in our region it ranges. We have long periods of drought, then it can pour 5
inches in an hour. Much of it is runoff. When I hear rain is on the way, I
water the garden to get the top inch moist so it doesn't shed the water, and
breaks the tension of the soil to allow water to permeate it.

If it were my city who discouraged rainwater collection, I'd become very active
at Town Council meetings and would contact my representative on the board. That
is horrendous.

Victoria

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:06:50 -0400, Dwight Sipler
wrote:


There are soluble contaminants in rainwater also, which don't just
filter out. The contaminants depend on which way the wind is blowing,
what industries are upwind from you, and the time of year and business
climate for those industries. You may have to treat the water somehow.
Before you spend any significant money, collect some water from the roof
over a long period of time and have it tested.

I'm well aware of this and thank you for making that a point. It's something I
did not mention, but am aware of.

V

Do you have a breakdown of what the levels of nitrates, nitrites,
organophosphate, herbicides, pathogens, and other toxic elements found in
city
water? If not, to say you have pretty good quality water is not adequate
enough for me. Our water has more chlorine, now chloramine than our
swimming
pool. I don't allow my bird to drink it...let alone us.

The breakdown on contaminants in the water supply here in Cincy can be found
at http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/pages/-296-/ under the Miller treatment
plant. We have 3 different water sources but Miller services our area.
FWIW, the water utility has a very informative web site.

That said, I live in Austin, Texas, where the Edwards Aquifer is our most
precious commodity. The city of Austin sells rainwater collection barrels
from
the Smith and Hawken supplier at a fraction of the cost. They actually
lose 35
dollars on each one they sell because of the kick back they get from the
water
authority.

I don't know where you live or how many inches of water rains down on you,
but
in our region it ranges. We have long periods of drought, then it can
pour 5
inches in an hour. Much of it is runoff. When I hear rain is on the way,
I
water the garden to get the top inch moist so it doesn't shed the water,
and
breaks the tension of the soil to allow water to permeate it.

I'm in Cincinnati. Rainfall varies here but it averages around 40 inches
per year. This spring/summer has been particularly odd -- we've gone a
period with no rain at all then suddenly we get doused (talk about deep
watering). It's been bad enough that I've actually seen the street in front
of my house flood to about 8 inches -- on no less than THREE occasions.
I've lived here for about 30 years and this year is the first and only time
I have ever seen this phenomenon.

If it were my city who discouraged rainwater collection, I'd become very
active
at Town Council meetings and would contact my representative on the board.
That
is horrendous.

Yup. I'm planning on doing some follow-up to get a better picture of where
the city's code is on this one. I disagree with the section on digging a
well but I at least understand the reasoning. However when it comes to a
cistern...well, that's nobody's business but my own -- plain and simple.

James

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:36:25 -0400, "JNJ" wrote:

After a review of relevant code, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.
Municipal code specifically prohibits anyone within the city limits from
having an operating cistern or well where city water is available. Needless
to say, that puts a bit of a kink in the works. Might need to do a little
political activism on this 'un.

Before you do, you might call the city and try and find out *why*
these restrictions are in place. I'm not saying you can find the
answer, nor that they will be reasonable if you do, but there's a
chance it'll make some sense. Also a (slim) possibility you might
reach someone who has suggestions for your wet basement problem.

After a review of relevant code, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.
Municipal code specifically prohibits anyone within the city limits from
having an operating cistern or well where city water is available.
Needless
to say, that puts a bit of a kink in the works. Might need to do a
little
political activism on this 'un.

Before you do, you might call the city and try and find out *why*
these restrictions are in place. I'm not saying you can find the
answer, nor that they will be reasonable if you do, but there's a
chance it'll make some sense. Also a (slim) possibility you might
reach someone who has suggestions for your wet basement problem.

I understand the reasoning on the wells -- they claim to be protecting the
ground water from contamination. A bit weak IMHO but at least
understandable. As for a cistern being prohibited, I've been told to
contact the health department.

James

By way of follow up -- I got a response back from the city today on the
legality of cisterns:

"I would contact the Health Department to confirm that. Personally, a
cistern would be my last choice for a water source. The contaminants that
can potentially be picked up by rain water through the air (particularly in
Southwest Ohio where the air quality is not all that great)as well as what
could be picked up off the roof, etc., you could likely end up with a water
which is not all that healthy, particularly if you do not treat it is some
manner. A cistern also leaves you vulnerable to drought, in which case you
would pay a premium to have water hauled by truck to fill your cistern. That
is just my personal opinion though."

On to the health department next.

"JNJ" expounded:

Personally, a
cistern would be my last choice for a water source.

Someone should notify the whole of the island of Bermuda, where
cisterns are the norm. Hasn't seemed to harm them any.

--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 01:36:22 -0400, "JNJ" wrote:

By way of follow up -- I got a response back from the city today on the
legality of cisterns:

"I would contact the Health Department to confirm that. Personally, a
cistern would be my last choice for a water source. The contaminants that
can potentially be picked up by rain water through the air (particularly in
Southwest Ohio where the air quality is not all that great)as well as what
could be picked up off the roof, etc., you could likely end up with a water
which is not all that healthy, particularly if you do not treat it is some
manner. A cistern also leaves you vulnerable to drought, in which case you
would pay a premium to have water hauled by truck to fill your cistern. That
is just my personal opinion though."

On to the health department next.


Well, I have to tell you, this is the single most idiotic response I've seen yet
from a city authority. People here in Texas have cisterns everywhere and we
drink beautifully fresh, clean, clear water with no chlorine/chloramine. Keep
up on your quest. I assure you, if you have a cistern installed with the proper
filtration to make potable water, it will be the best water available. It will
have no diazinon in it, or any of the other pollutants you will now find in the
city water. I don't care if they are acceptable levels. IMO, there are NO
acceptable levels of organophosphate.

Good luck, keep checking back.

One more thing to think about:

On a home show once, they were showing someone soldering together roof
gutters. They said they used a high concentration of lead which is not
allowed in indoor plumbing but is okay for water drainage. Of course,
if you're planning on drinking water that has come through your roof
gutters, this could be a problem. You might want to call whoever
installed your gutters and ask them if they soldered the pieces
together, and if so, if the soldering material had more lead in it
than allowed for internal water piping.

I wouldn't worry about the code so much in this case as your own
health. This is one area where I would want the code to be even more
stringent.

Mike

From an earlier post, JNJ wrote:
After a review of relevant code, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.
Municipal code specifically prohibits anyone within the city limits from
having an operating cistern or well where city water is available. [...]

BTW, did I mention that the water utility is owned and operated as a
department of the city?

JNJ wrote:
[...]
By way of follow up -- I got a response back from the city today on the
legality of cisterns:

[excerpt from the "city" quote]
"A cistern also leaves you vulnerable to drought, in which case you
would pay a premium to have water hauled by truck to fill your cistern."
[...]

It seems like the city's stance is that water supply is an all or nothing
affair. Either you're misinterpreting things when it relates to
alternative sources for garden water (as opposed to "house water"), or
(more likely) the city is unequipped to deal with water supplies not
governed by themselves.

Maybe along with IPM there needs to be "Integrated Water Supply".

--
Willondon

It seems like the city's stance is that water supply is an all or nothing
affair. Either you're misinterpreting things when it relates to
alternative sources for garden water (as opposed to "house water"), or
(more likely) the city is unequipped to deal with water supplies not
governed by themselves.

Maybe along with IPM there needs to be "Integrated Water Supply".

I've been spending some time cultivating friendships with local
environmentalists and I'm finding this city is not particularly
environmentally conscious or even interested in the environment. It's
rather disappointing really. Bad for them though -- I don't give up so
easily.

James