lmao!!!!!

ok go ahead...laugh it off... ;-)

BUT I'M SERIOUS! (seriously!)
you might wonder if I have lost my mind, but you'll see that I haven't
(atleast not to my knowledge :-] )

Here is a rather lengthy description of my madness:

I am setting up a biotope (basically a simulated natural environment)
in an old aquarium. In it, I will be raising a colony of ants
(complete with the queen and all) next to an aquatic environment with
fish, aquatic snails, and other critters inside. Part of the beauty
of a biotope is to observe nature (the other fun part is
designing/building it...hehe). It so happens that this species of
ants in nature tends aphids, and in return feeds of off its "honeydew"
(a symbiosis if you will). Obviouly, I would like to mimic this as
much as possible. I am mimicing its natural environment as closely as
I can (humidity, temp, soil moisture, soil type, etc...) as well.

So here is my question for all you gardening experts:
BE YOUR ENEMY! Get into the tiny mind of the aphid and help me out!
Essentially, I need a plant that aphids will go crazy for, and just
cover it head to tail (or as close to that as realistically possible).
I am not terribly familiar with aphids, but I am assuming that while
they feed off of the plant, they do not kill it...right? Also, how
would I attract the aphids in the first place to come to the plant?
As hard as it may be to believe, I couldn't find any in the yard
(atleast not without a magnifying glass in hand). What kind of
environment do aphids do best in? moist? dry? humid? wamer? colder?
etc... The environment that I am setting up is very close to a
tropical area, along side a river (plenty of moisture available).
Essentially, I need a plant with the following characteristics (in
decreasing order of importance...ie #1 is most important criteria):

1. The plant should preferrably be cheap (less than $20) and easily
available (e.g. through HomeDepot and the like)

2. The plant should preferrably enjoy lots of moisture at its roots
(although it is possible for me to set up a drier area for the plant,
a moisture-lover is preferrable)

3. The plant shouldn't grow too tall (i.e. I would rather avoid large
trees such as citrus, cherries, maple, etc... since I am working in a
small environment). However, if the plant is otherwise ideal (or
pretty close), I am flexible on this [I'll just keep it trimmed]

4. Hopefully, the plant can withstand the abuse from the aphids (I
would rather not be running out and buying a new one every couple of
months as uprooting and replanting would disturb the environment too
much and most probably destroy the ant's nest underground. Keep in
mind that although this environment is open (exposed to the outdoors)
these ants will *viciously* protect the aphid against all other
pests/fungi/predators [including but not limited to wasps, spiders,
and even killer bees!] that may stumble onto the plant. So the aphids
will be doing really well, and I want a plant that won't succumb to
that.

5. Hopefully, the plant doesn't grow too fast, so that maintainance
would be minimal (though I am quite flxible on this because most
likely, the plant would have to be a fast grower to survive the aphid
infestation...plus most moisture-loving plants happen to be fast
growers as well)

5. The plant would have to respond well (or atleast not hate)
trimming, again because of space constraints (I think most plants
would fall into this category any how, so this is sort of a minor
constraint...unless my ignorace is far too great on the subject of
gardening).

6. The plant can be a grass, shrub, a fern, ground cover (I even
considered clovers), tree or anything in between. However, I would
prefer that the plant is not an annual or prennial (again because I
don't want to have to re-plant and disturb the environment).

I realize that the idea might seem a bit...how would I put it
nicely..."off the wall" ;-] and I also realize that I have given you
quite a laundry list of criteria, and I also realize that this is a
really long post so far...but in your kindness and compassion and most
of all expertise! I am certain that you shall deliver the ideal
plant! (or even a laundry list of your own! hehe :-)

steps down from the soap box

On another note, this species of ants also enjoys its share of nectar
hunting ( as a carbohydrate source) and pollen chewing (as a protein
source), so I would like to also have a plant that offers flowers with
a sweet nectar (hopefully not an annual). Again my understanding is
quite limited in this area, but I think that bulbs would be ok (I am
under the assumption that "generally speaking" bulbs will re-flower
every year and do not need to be re-planted after a couple of
years???) Now if you could somehow come up with a plant that cultures
aphids...AND has a sweet-nectar flower...why...that would be TRULY
GODLY OF YOU! (hint hint) ;-]

PS I would also welcome any suggestions for a ground
cover...especially one that is conducive to lots of "critters" living
under it (babytear comes to mind). Obviously, these "critters" would
be an additional food source for the ants [this species of ants is
known to even hunt its share of various worms underground].

PPS In my digging up of previous posts on the subject, I came accross
one titled "So you want to grow aphids???" It was a rather funny and
sarcastic post and I enjoyed it a lot; but basically, the most useful
bit of info that I got from it was that aphids go absolutely nuts for
rose buds...so I am very seriously considering a rose as the candidate
to use. In that case, do you happen to know of a particular "strain"
of roses that is especially "susceptible" to aphids (or any other
insect "pest" which the ants would gladly feast on)??? As an
afterthought, that question might be better suited for the roses
group. I will attempt a post in there as well, but your feedback is
welcome regardless!

And finally...Please excuse the profusely long post with your own
grace and kindness!

Thanks a bunch for your help!
Sam in Los Angeles

(saman) wrote in news:e89573f0.0310202022.e0b26b7
@posting.google.com:

I am setting up a biotope (basically a simulated natural environment)
in an old aquarium. In it, I will be raising a colony of ants
(complete with the queen and all) next to an aquatic environment with
fish, aquatic snails, and other critters inside. Part of the beauty
of a biotope is to observe nature (the other fun part is
designing/building it...hehe). It so happens that this species of
ants in nature tends aphids, and in return feeds of off its "honeydew"
(a symbiosis if you will). Obviouly, I would like to mimic this as
much as possible. I am mimicing its natural environment as closely as
I can (humidity, temp, soil moisture, soil type, etc...) as well.

First you need to know if these special aphids or ordinary aphids you can
get off the street. I've heard of the ants you are talking about, they
stroke the aphids which then secret a sweet fluid out of their ... ahem
.... fluid secretion hole.

I'm assuming you need special 'cow' aphids (probably not the real name)
(and maybe special diet), but if not, do a search on Sevin dust. Now
this may kill your ants and fishies, but if you believe the posts, the
aphids will party like it's 1999. Just grow a rose outside and dust it
Sevin periodicly. When your biotope population gets low, just pick off a
leaf and chuck it in. If you're lucky, the little Antnolds will soon
find out which aphids like their hershey holes licked.

- ST

P.S. If you get cancer or some such from the Sevin, don't blame me.

I've had good indoor crops of aphids on my lettuce, nasturium and
sweet pepper plants. Lettuce and nasturium seeds are hard to find at
this time of year but you can get pepper seeds from ripe sweet peppers
in the grocery store.

Room temperature and humidity are loved by aphids. If your area has
not had frost, you might still find aphids here and there. In my
yard, they hide in the curled underside of leaves.

"Pen" wrote in message
om...
I've had good indoor crops of aphids on my lettuce, nasturium and
sweet pepper plants. Lettuce and nasturium seeds are hard to find at
this time of year but you can get pepper seeds from ripe sweet peppers
in the grocery store.

Room temperature and humidity are loved by aphids. If your area has
not had frost, you might still find aphids here and there. In my
yard, they hide in the curled underside of leaves.
I plant Nasturtiums in my garden to attract aphids and keep away from other
plants. Works everytime!

On 10/21/03 5:25 PM, in article
, "Pen"
wrote:

I've had good indoor crops of aphids on my lettuce, nasturium and
sweet pepper plants. Lettuce and nasturium seeds are hard to find at
this time of year but you can get pepper seeds from ripe sweet peppers
in the grocery store.

Room temperature and humidity are loved by aphids. If your area has
not had frost, you might still find aphids here and there. In my
yard, they hide in the curled underside of leaves.

Why?
Cheryl

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 10/21/03 5:25 PM, in article
, "Pen"

wrote:

I've had good indoor crops of aphids on my lettuce, nasturium and
sweet pepper plants. Lettuce and nasturium seeds are hard to find at
this time of year but you can get pepper seeds from ripe sweet peppers
in the grocery store.

Room temperature and humidity are loved by aphids. If your area has
not had frost, you might still find aphids here and there. In my
yard, they hide in the curled underside of leaves.

Why?
Cheryl

Why what?

I agree with the nasturtium recommendation.
I love nasturtiums but stopped planting them because they were inescapably
black-aphid magnets.
If I wanted a bazillion aphids -- to feed baby geckos for instance -- I
would plant nasturtiums.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Thank you so much for your suggestions. If I may address your post
directly:

Pen wrote:
I've had good indoor crops of aphids on my lettuce,

I am not sure if lettuce would work too well since I would have to
replant after it dies next year. I am not too familiar with nasturium.
What kind of plant is it? (ornamental? edible? flowe? etc) and would
it be available at my local HomeDepot? The guys down there are not all
that scientific, so would they know what nastrurium is??? (does it have
a "common" name?)


sweet pepper plants.

I am a bit confused by this. Are you referring to bell peppers? (they
kind you find at your local store which come in green, red, yellow,
etc?) If so, I was actually considering that plant as well, so your
vote of confidence is most appreciated!

Room temperature and humidity are loved by aphids.

Done! hehe


If your area has not had frost, you might still find aphids here and there. In my
yard, they hide in the curled underside of leaves.

frost isn't really a problem here in Los Angeles (this late in October,
and the weather was 95 today!!!). I inspected the rose buds today in
search of some aphids, but couldn't find any. Oour roses are under
direct sunlight most of the day. So I guess its too dry for the aphids
to like it...there is always the neighborhood roses (time to go on an
aphid-kidnapping rampage LOL)

Thanks again for your reply!
Sam in Los Angeles

Salty Thumb wrote:
I'm assuming you need special 'cow' aphids

I have been assured by other experience ant keepers that your local
variety aphids will do the job! :-)


do a search on Sevin dust. Now this may kill your ants and fishies, but if you believe the posts, the
aphids will party like it's 1999.

I am sorry, but I don't quite follow you here Salty (or maybe the joke
is on me!) How would I attract aphids by applying an insecticide to the
biotope? I don't follow the logic there. Also, I suspect that Sevin
dust will kill off all of the ants since its an *insect* killer (though
I couldn't verify that ants are one of the 60 insects that it supposedly
kills).

Just grow a rose outside and dust it Sevin periodicly.

I was thinking about roses already. Any common strains (e.g. available
at HomeDepot) that are particularly susceptible to an aphid infestation?

P.S. If you get cancer or some such from the Sevin, don't blame me.

LMAO!!! I am not sure if that "disclaimer" is bulletproof (i.e. some
well-paid lawyers could probably poke a couple of gaping holes in
it)...but point well taken ;-]

Thanks again!
Sam in Los Angeles

Coleus comes to mind.
"saman" wrote in message
m...
lmao!!!!!

ok go ahead...laugh it off... ;-)

BUT I'M SERIOUS! (seriously!)
you might wonder if I have lost my mind, but you'll see that I haven't
(atleast not to my knowledge :-] )

Here is a rather lengthy description of my madness:

I am setting up a biotope (basically a simulated natural environment)
in an old aquarium. In it, I will be raising a colony of ants
(complete with the queen and all) next to an aquatic environment with
fish, aquatic snails, and other critters inside. Part of the beauty
of a biotope is to observe nature (the other fun part is
designing/building it...hehe). It so happens that this species of
ants in nature tends aphids, and in return feeds of off its "honeydew"
(a symbiosis if you will). Obviouly, I would like to mimic this as
much as possible. I am mimicing its natural environment as closely as
I can (humidity, temp, soil moisture, soil type, etc...) as well.

So here is my question for all you gardening experts:
BE YOUR ENEMY! Get into the tiny mind of the aphid and help me out!
Essentially, I need a plant that aphids will go crazy for, and just
cover it head to tail (or as close to that as realistically possible).
I am not terribly familiar with aphids, but I am assuming that while
they feed off of the plant, they do not kill it...right? Also, how
would I attract the aphids in the first place to come to the plant?
As hard as it may be to believe, I couldn't find any in the yard
(atleast not without a magnifying glass in hand). What kind of
environment do aphids do best in? moist? dry? humid? wamer? colder?
etc... The environment that I am setting up is very close to a
tropical area, along side a river (plenty of moisture available).
Essentially, I need a plant with the following characteristics (in
decreasing order of importance...ie #1 is most important criteria):

1. The plant should preferrably be cheap (less than $20) and easily
available (e.g. through HomeDepot and the like)

2. The plant should preferrably enjoy lots of moisture at its roots
(although it is possible for me to set up a drier area for the plant,
a moisture-lover is preferrable)

3. The plant shouldn't grow too tall (i.e. I would rather avoid large
trees such as citrus, cherries, maple, etc... since I am working in a
small environment). However, if the plant is otherwise ideal (or
pretty close), I am flexible on this [I'll just keep it trimmed]

4. Hopefully, the plant can withstand the abuse from the aphids (I
would rather not be running out and buying a new one every couple of
months as uprooting and replanting would disturb the environment too
much and most probably destroy the ant's nest underground. Keep in
mind that although this environment is open (exposed to the outdoors)
these ants will *viciously* protect the aphid against all other
pests/fungi/predators [including but not limited to wasps, spiders,
and even killer bees!] that may stumble onto the plant. So the aphids
will be doing really well, and I want a plant that won't succumb to
that.

5. Hopefully, the plant doesn't grow too fast, so that maintainance
would be minimal (though I am quite flxible on this because most
likely, the plant would have to be a fast grower to survive the aphid
infestation...plus most moisture-loving plants happen to be fast
growers as well)

5. The plant would have to respond well (or atleast not hate)
trimming, again because of space constraints (I think most plants
would fall into this category any how, so this is sort of a minor
constraint...unless my ignorace is far too great on the subject of
gardening).

6. The plant can be a grass, shrub, a fern, ground cover (I even
considered clovers), tree or anything in between. However, I would
prefer that the plant is not an annual or prennial (again because I
don't want to have to re-plant and disturb the environment).

I realize that the idea might seem a bit...how would I put it
nicely..."off the wall" ;-] and I also realize that I have given you
quite a laundry list of criteria, and I also realize that this is a
really long post so far...but in your kindness and compassion and most
of all expertise! I am certain that you shall deliver the ideal
plant! (or even a laundry list of your own! hehe :-)

steps down from the soap box

On another note, this species of ants also enjoys its share of nectar
hunting ( as a carbohydrate source) and pollen chewing (as a protein
source), so I would like to also have a plant that offers flowers with
a sweet nectar (hopefully not an annual). Again my understanding is
quite limited in this area, but I think that bulbs would be ok (I am
under the assumption that "generally speaking" bulbs will re-flower
every year and do not need to be re-planted after a couple of
years???) Now if you could somehow come up with a plant that cultures
aphids...AND has a sweet-nectar flower...why...that would be TRULY
GODLY OF YOU! (hint hint) ;-]

PS I would also welcome any suggestions for a ground
cover...especially one that is conducive to lots of "critters" living
under it (babytear comes to mind). Obviously, these "critters" would
be an additional food source for the ants [this species of ants is
known to even hunt its share of various worms underground].

PPS In my digging up of previous posts on the subject, I came accross
one titled "So you want to grow aphids???" It was a rather funny and
sarcastic post and I enjoyed it a lot; but basically, the most useful
bit of info that I got from it was that aphids go absolutely nuts for
rose buds...so I am very seriously considering a rose as the candidate
to use. In that case, do you happen to know of a particular "strain"
of roses that is especially "susceptible" to aphids (or any other
insect "pest" which the ants would gladly feast on)??? As an
afterthought, that question might be better suited for the roses
group. I will attempt a post in there as well, but your feedback is
welcome regardless!

And finally...Please excuse the profusely long post with your own
grace and kindness!

Thanks a bunch for your help!
Sam in Los Angeles

Sam wrote in :


do a search on Sevin dust. Now this may kill your ants and fishies,
but if you believe the posts, the aphids will party like it's 1999.

I am sorry, but I don't quite follow you here Salty (or maybe the joke
is on me!) How would I attract aphids by applying an insecticide to
the biotope? I don't follow the logic there. Also, I suspect that
Sevin dust will kill off all of the ants since its an *insect* killer
(though I couldn't verify that ants are one of the 60 insects that it
supposedly kills).

I was being wry. But if you read some of the previous posts, Sevin will
kill all sorts of insects except aphids. So if you are a results
oriented person, feel the ends justify the means or are just desperate
for aphids dump a load of Sevin on a plant, and wait for the plague. You
should know however that using Sevin in this manner - a manner
inconsistent with its labeling, is probably a felony punishable by
federal law etc etc.

Just grow a rose outside and dust it Sevin periodicly.

I was thinking about roses already. Any common strains (e.g.
available at HomeDepot) that are particularly susceptible to an aphid
infestation?

I don't know. Compared to some of the regulars in this group (hi
everybody), I couldn't garden my way out of a paper bag. Personally, I'd
go with the nasturtium recommendation. (It's the name of a common plant
not a obtuse botanical classification). My Latin dictionary gives the
meaning of nasturcium as 'garden cress'. There's no listing for
nasturtium, but my English dictionary says it's from the Latin word for
'cress'.

-- ST