THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
Well, I send about 200 pieces of mail art out into the world each month. Some to people I've traded stuff with for twenty years, some to people I don't know at all. When sending to new people I suspect less than a third respond by sending mail art in return, which according to the rules of the game all mail-artists are supposed to do. But my sentiment has always been if I get something in return, super; if I don't get something in return, no big deal, cuz maybe even then I spread a momentary delight to someone before they tossed my art in the garbage, or better still magnetted it to their refrigerator. I don't need to know what happened. My first reward is that I did it at all. If I get a second reward of someone informing me they were made happy by it, or a third reward in being made happy by someone else's art sent to me, or in some cases the shocking reward of discovering that something I made ten years ago is permanently archived in museums in Cuba, Hungary, Canada, England, & the United States -- well, the less reward sought, the more reward there seems to be! I've heard mail artists complain the way Helen complained about seeds, that they send out mail art to people who say they are mail artists, who are supposed to send art back, but who never respond in any manner -- no expression of grattitude, no acknowledgement, nothing in trade, nada, whine, winge, woe is me the Great Sharer. I say stop kvetching -- or stop sharing if it makes you so whiny. The purpose of sharing is not personal gain. And a 20% response rate is a HUGE personal gain even though even that shouldn't be required. In Helen's case it's even a little like giving away samples of candy in the grocery store & expecting them to come back the next day to say thank you -- if they can't say thank you up front & that be enough, then don't bother. And a properly addressed envelop or package gets there 99.999999% of the time, so requiring acknowledgement that it was at least received is just an exuse for the neediness. I think most people would feel if they gave away 100 packets of seeds and made as few as two lasting friends from the deal, good lord that's fantastic. Griping about the others is churlish. Over the years I've sent out hundreds of packets of seeds myself. I've even made a few friends that way. As you say - great, fantastic, I'm glad I did it, and I'll do it again. Being considerate of others is a necessity in our crowded world. There are far too many people who have been raised with a sense of entitlement, that the world *owes* them the credit/degree/boobs/whathaveyou that they deserve. Why should they think that their nice new seeds, or mail art are yet one more thing owed them. I think it is rude to offer no thanks for a deed done, and if saying so reminds a few people of their lapse in manners we're all better off. Some people will never get the message, they're too selfish, but if every now and then someone stands up and says "You morons! Where are your manners!", a few will get the point. Helen's not whining - she's ****ed off and is giving a well deserved chewing out to the people that deserve it. Her post was both a public thanks to the those who appreciated her seeds, and a PFO letter to the others that took her seeds and ran. Should we all decide that expressing dissatisfaction is a no-no? Heavens! Our self esteem might suffer if someone said something bad - cant have that! We've all told people off for poor behavior, and we need to continue doing it from time to time when it persists. BP |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
Well, I send about 200 pieces of mail art out into the world each month. Some to people I've traded stuff with for twenty years, some to people I don't know at all. When sending to new people I suspect less than a third respond by sending mail art in return, which according to the rules of the game all mail-artists are supposed to do. But my sentiment has always been if I get something in return, super; if I don't get something in return, no big deal, cuz maybe even then I spread a momentary delight to someone before they tossed my art in the garbage, or better still magnetted it to their refrigerator. I don't need to know what happened. My first reward is that I did it at all. If I get a second reward of someone informing me they were made happy by it, or a third reward in being made happy by someone else's art sent to me, or in some cases the shocking reward of discovering that something I made ten years ago is permanently archived in museums in Cuba, Hungary, Canada, England, & the United States -- well, the less reward sought, the more reward there seems to be! I've heard mail artists complain the way Helen complained about seeds, that they send out mail art to people who say they are mail artists, who are supposed to send art back, but who never respond in any manner -- no expression of grattitude, no acknowledgement, nothing in trade, nada, whine, winge, woe is me the Great Sharer. I say stop kvetching -- or stop sharing if it makes you so whiny. The purpose of sharing is not personal gain. And a 20% response rate is a HUGE personal gain even though even that shouldn't be required. In Helen's case it's even a little like giving away samples of candy in the grocery store & expecting them to come back the next day to say thank you -- if they can't say thank you up front & that be enough, then don't bother. And a properly addressed envelop or package gets there 99.999999% of the time, so requiring acknowledgement that it was at least received is just an exuse for the neediness. I think most people would feel if they gave away 100 packets of seeds and made as few as two lasting friends from the deal, good lord that's fantastic. Griping about the others is churlish. Over the years I've sent out hundreds of packets of seeds myself. I've even made a few friends that way. As you say - great, fantastic, I'm glad I did it, and I'll do it again. Being considerate of others is a necessity in our crowded world. There are far too many people who have been raised with a sense of entitlement, that the world *owes* them the credit/degree/boobs/whathaveyou that they deserve. Why should they think that their nice new seeds, or mail art are yet one more thing owed them. I think it is rude to offer no thanks for a deed done, and if saying so reminds a few people of their lapse in manners we're all better off. Some people will never get the message, they're too selfish, but if every now and then someone stands up and says "You morons! Where are your manners!", a few will get the point. Helen's not whining - she's ****ed off and is giving a well deserved chewing out to the people that deserve it. Her post was both a public thanks to the those who appreciated her seeds, and a PFO letter to the others that took her seeds and ran. Should we all decide that expressing dissatisfaction is a no-no? Heavens! Our self esteem might suffer if someone said something bad - cant have that! We've all told people off for poor behavior, and we need to continue doing it from time to time when it persists. BP |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
A person gives to others, but receives no recognition or acknowledgement for the time, effort or even cost. It is so important for humanity to be recognized. If it weren't, no one would complain about their jobs, their relationships... its a very important issue to most people. We *all* need thanks, recognition and acknowledgement from time to time. I know a lady who looked back in her life and wrote letters of thanks to various teachers, mentors and whatnot along her path in life. She also wrote several old bands whose music meant a lot to her. You can imagine how much those letters must have meant after all these years. Saying thanks didn't cost her anything but a stamp and a good heart. Phyliss On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:49:01 -0500, Bonnie Punch wrote: You sound a little needy, which might be off-putting to some seed recipients. Helen is the very opposite of needy. "Needy" doesn't only mean poor,hard-up. It's also used to describe people who (consciously or not), manipulate other people and social situations in order to support some hidden psychological need of their own. Paghat meant emotionally needy. I knew that, and I meant that she is not any more needy than the rest of us. We *all* manipulate people *all* the time. We pay attention to a spouse/lover so that they will love us, and we won't be alone. We flatter a friend so they'll like us and we'll have someone to talk to. In order to get you have to give. We all have psycological, physical and emotional needs. It's part of being human. She very generously offers to send seeds to people *at her own expense*! If you send to more than a dozen people, that starts to add up to some real $$$. Well, Helen said she had packaged and sent a consignment to over 300 recipients, many abroad.Yes, that's some real $$$; "investing" so much time and money in strangers could mean she's rather emotionally needy in the above sense. As Paghat pointed out, needy behaviour often often makes people shy away. Maybe she's just really nice? I realize that generosity is a dying trait, so it can be difficult to recognize it when you see it. Even nice people will complain when they feel like too many people have taken advantage of them. Interpreting frustration over a lack of manners as needy is a bit of a stretch. There's nothing needy about her behavior - she's venting her anger. What's she supposed to do? People need to be reminded of basic ettiquette sometimes, and some people won't get it unless you hit them upside the head with a clue-by-four. This isn't the first time someone has complained here of a lack of a decent response when sending out items. When we were children we were taguht by our parents to say thank you, but some people seem to think that it's no longer necessary as an adult. All she wants is a simple thank you. Why is that so hard to accept? BP |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
A person gives to others, but receives no recognition or acknowledgement for the time, effort or even cost. It is so important for humanity to be recognized. If it weren't, no one would complain about their jobs, their relationships... its a very important issue to most people. We *all* need thanks, recognition and acknowledgement from time to time. I know a lady who looked back in her life and wrote letters of thanks to various teachers, mentors and whatnot along her path in life. She also wrote several old bands whose music meant a lot to her. You can imagine how much those letters must have meant after all these years. Saying thanks didn't cost her anything but a stamp and a good heart. Phyliss On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:49:01 -0500, Bonnie Punch wrote: You sound a little needy, which might be off-putting to some seed recipients. Helen is the very opposite of needy. "Needy" doesn't only mean poor,hard-up. It's also used to describe people who (consciously or not), manipulate other people and social situations in order to support some hidden psychological need of their own. Paghat meant emotionally needy. I knew that, and I meant that she is not any more needy than the rest of us. We *all* manipulate people *all* the time. We pay attention to a spouse/lover so that they will love us, and we won't be alone. We flatter a friend so they'll like us and we'll have someone to talk to. In order to get you have to give. We all have psycological, physical and emotional needs. It's part of being human. She very generously offers to send seeds to people *at her own expense*! If you send to more than a dozen people, that starts to add up to some real $$$. Well, Helen said she had packaged and sent a consignment to over 300 recipients, many abroad.Yes, that's some real $$$; "investing" so much time and money in strangers could mean she's rather emotionally needy in the above sense. As Paghat pointed out, needy behaviour often often makes people shy away. Maybe she's just really nice? I realize that generosity is a dying trait, so it can be difficult to recognize it when you see it. Even nice people will complain when they feel like too many people have taken advantage of them. Interpreting frustration over a lack of manners as needy is a bit of a stretch. There's nothing needy about her behavior - she's venting her anger. What's she supposed to do? People need to be reminded of basic ettiquette sometimes, and some people won't get it unless you hit them upside the head with a clue-by-four. This isn't the first time someone has complained here of a lack of a decent response when sending out items. When we were children we were taguht by our parents to say thank you, but some people seem to think that it's no longer necessary as an adult. All she wants is a simple thank you. Why is that so hard to accept? BP |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
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THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
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THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
All I can add to this thread is how "Sad" the person must be who considers
saying "Thank you" for a gift is a form of payment. -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
The message a
from Bonnie Punch contains these words: Paghat meant emotionally needy. I knew that, and I meant that she is not any more needy than the rest of us. Okay..because your next sentence mentioned financial expense I thought you might have misread. We *all* manipulate people *all* the time. I don't agree; I think most of us do it deliberately at some time or other. But many people consciously avoid doing it, as much as possible. We pay attention to a spouse/lover so that they will love us, and we won't be alone. We flatter a friend so they'll like us and we'll have someone to talk to. Do you? How very odd. I don't do either of those things. My husband still adores me unconditionally, and my friends know that a compliment from me is genuinely deserved by them and genuinely felt by me. In order to get you have to give. That isn't generosity, it's self-seeking. Maybe she's just really nice? Could be :-) What's she supposed to do? People need to be reminded of basic ettiquette sometimes, and some people won't get it unless you hit them upside the head with a clue-by-four. I would be very surprised if any uncaring selfish ingrates would give a damn about a general public rant about basic etiquette. They've got away with their bad manners scot-free; nobody here knows who they are, so they won't lose out next time there's a general seed-offer. This isn't the first time someone has complained here of a lack of a decent response when sending out items. Exactly; so everyone knows by now that if you send seeds to usenet strangers, not all of them will bother to thank. People are responsible for themselves and the consequences of their own choices, as Victoria and Paghat have already said. Thankyou for this conversation :-) Janet. |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
The message a
from Bonnie Punch contains these words: Paghat meant emotionally needy. I knew that, and I meant that she is not any more needy than the rest of us. Okay..because your next sentence mentioned financial expense I thought you might have misread. We *all* manipulate people *all* the time. I don't agree; I think most of us do it deliberately at some time or other. But many people consciously avoid doing it, as much as possible. We pay attention to a spouse/lover so that they will love us, and we won't be alone. We flatter a friend so they'll like us and we'll have someone to talk to. Do you? How very odd. I don't do either of those things. My husband still adores me unconditionally, and my friends know that a compliment from me is genuinely deserved by them and genuinely felt by me. In order to get you have to give. That isn't generosity, it's self-seeking. Maybe she's just really nice? Could be :-) What's she supposed to do? People need to be reminded of basic ettiquette sometimes, and some people won't get it unless you hit them upside the head with a clue-by-four. I would be very surprised if any uncaring selfish ingrates would give a damn about a general public rant about basic etiquette. They've got away with their bad manners scot-free; nobody here knows who they are, so they won't lose out next time there's a general seed-offer. This isn't the first time someone has complained here of a lack of a decent response when sending out items. Exactly; so everyone knows by now that if you send seeds to usenet strangers, not all of them will bother to thank. People are responsible for themselves and the consequences of their own choices, as Victoria and Paghat have already said. Thankyou for this conversation :-) Janet. |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
Janet Baraclough.. wrote:
This isn't the first time someone has complained here of a lack of a decent response when sending out items. Exactly; so everyone knows by now that if you send seeds to usenet strangers, not all of them will bother to thank. People are responsible for themselves and the consequences of their own choices, as Victoria and Paghat have already said. Thankyou for this conversation :-) Janet. Isn't everyone entitled to a rant every once in a while? At least Helen's was relevant to this group. -Bob |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
Janet Baraclough.. wrote:
This isn't the first time someone has complained here of a lack of a decent response when sending out items. Exactly; so everyone knows by now that if you send seeds to usenet strangers, not all of them will bother to thank. People are responsible for themselves and the consequences of their own choices, as Victoria and Paghat have already said. Thankyou for this conversation :-) Janet. Isn't everyone entitled to a rant every once in a while? At least Helen's was relevant to this group. -Bob |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
"David Hill" expounded:
All I can add to this thread is how "Sad" the person must be who considers saying "Thank you" for a gift is a form of payment. Hear, hear! -- Ann, Gardening in zone 6a Just south of Boston, MA ******************************** |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
"David Hill" expounded:
All I can add to this thread is how "Sad" the person must be who considers saying "Thank you" for a gift is a form of payment. Hear, hear! -- Ann, Gardening in zone 6a Just south of Boston, MA ******************************** |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
The message
from Salty Thumb contains these words: I think you people are way off. There isn't anything needy or emotionally needy about Helen's behaviour. She doesn't need to send seeds and she doesn't "need" to get a response. Her reaction to the lack of response is classically maternal ... after having sent off her well wrapped babies into the world, she rightfully would expect to know if they arrived safely or were eaten by a squirrel. Facing unknown results, she's become more protective of her adoptive progeny and given stern notice to the thankless squirrely folks out there that there will be no more free lunch. -Dr. S. Thumb, Ph.D. Board Certified by the National Academy of Nut Seasonings Thankyou for putting it in a nutshell. I shall attempt to gnaw it. S. Nutkins. |
THANKS - AND THANKS FOR NOTHING
The message
from Salty Thumb contains these words: I think you people are way off. There isn't anything needy or emotionally needy about Helen's behaviour. She doesn't need to send seeds and she doesn't "need" to get a response. Her reaction to the lack of response is classically maternal ... after having sent off her well wrapped babies into the world, she rightfully would expect to know if they arrived safely or were eaten by a squirrel. Facing unknown results, she's become more protective of her adoptive progeny and given stern notice to the thankless squirrely folks out there that there will be no more free lunch. -Dr. S. Thumb, Ph.D. Board Certified by the National Academy of Nut Seasonings Thankyou for putting it in a nutshell. I shall attempt to gnaw it. S. Nutkins. |
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