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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Sorry to inform you fella but that's "Veld Lily" now.
I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive racist name for the plants. Ignorance is no excuse. Those who still use the offensive name should be informed not to and why. Its no different than using the "N word", Honkey. (Honkey is a malaprop term used to denote a "white person". The term is actually slang for Hungarian or more specifically used to describe a gypsy. The joke is that gypsies tend to be swarthy and not light skinned at all. Particularly humorous is that it was said by a "pimp" on the Chappell Show that the term was made popular by a man named George Jefferson (a character on a 70's TV show). That's an anachronism about a malaprop!!!) "David Hill" wrote in message ... Nice pic Wendy Here in the UK kaffir lily is the name given to Schizostylis, see http://www.floralimages.co.uk/pic1b4.htm It seems as if you also call Clivia miniata kaffir lily in the US,see http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/...25/clivia.html -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
"...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive
racist name for the plants ..........." Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at times???? Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
David Hill wrote: "...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive racist name for the plants ..........." Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at times???? Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Sorry to inform you fella but that's "Veld Lily" now.
I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive racist name for the plants. Ignorance is no excuse. Those who still use the offensive name should be informed not to and why. Its no different than using the "N word", Honkey. (Honkey is a malaprop term used to denote a "white person". The term is actually slang for Hungarian or more specifically used to describe a gypsy. The joke is that gypsies tend to be swarthy and not light skinned at all. Particularly humorous is that it was said by a "pimp" on the Chappell Show that the term was made popular by a man named George Jefferson (a character on a 70's TV show). That's an anachronism about a malaprop!!!) "David Hill" wrote in message ... Nice pic Wendy Here in the UK kaffir lily is the name given to Schizostylis, see http://www.floralimages.co.uk/pic1b4.htm It seems as if you also call Clivia miniata kaffir lily in the US,see http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/...25/clivia.html -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Judy wrote in message ...
David Hill wrote: "...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive racist name for the plants ..........." Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at times???? Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes How'd they get that name? - theoneflasehaddock |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800, (theoneflasehaddock) wrote:
Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes How'd they get that name? I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll post this article I found anyway: http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 Opinion Racist Relics: An Ugly Blight On Our Botanical Nomenclature By Melvin Hunter Date: November 25, 1991 Racism is a disease afflicting every level of society. The symptoms are as obvious as a cross burning or as subtle as a schoolteacher's subconsciously lowered expectations. Its presence casts an ugly shadow across society--unfortunately, even into our flower gardens and the language that scientists use to describe their inhabitants. Sad to say, a number of racially offensive common plant names long ago slipped into the vernacular of gardening, and some have found their way into horticulture's most important reference books. Sadder still is the fact that several of these offensive names are still in common use. And most amazing has been the reluctance of the horticultural establishment to confront the issue and remedy it with appropriate revision of the offending nomenclature. A prime example is the term ******head--painfully offensive, yet in use throughout the world as a common plant name. In Australia, Edward Rotherham informs us in his book Flowers and Plants of New South Wales and Southern Queensland (Wellington, A.H. and A.W. Reed, 1982), ******head is the common name for Enneapogon nigricans, a stiff, black-green grass of the shrublands of New South Wales. According to John Salmon, the author of New Zealand Flowers and Plants (Wellington, A.H. and A.W. Reed, 1963), ******head reportedly is used as the common name for Carex secta, a swamp grass that rises out of the water to form a mound. And Nicholas Polunim writes in Arctic to Eastern Siberia: Circumpolar Arctic Flora (London, Oxford University Press, 1959) that ******head is used in the Arctic to refer to Eriophorum vaginatur. The names ******'s-hand cactus and ******finger cactus have been given by Margaret Martin and her coauthors in the popular Cacti and Their Cultivation (New York, Charles Scribner's Sons, 1971) for Opuntia clavarioides, a small cactus with bizarre, slender, cylindrical branches. Alfred Graf, author of the widely used botanical guidebook Exotica (East Rutherford, N.J., Roehrs Co. Inc., 1980), gives ******-wool as a common name for the New Zealand Wire Vine (Muehlenbeckia complexa), apparently in reference to the basket plant's twining, wire-like purplish brown stems. Occasionally one can still hear Brazil nuts (Bertholletia excelsa) referred to as ******-toes. Meanwhile, horticulturist P.A. Munz's California Flora and California Desert Wildflowers (University of California Press, Berkeley, 1970) lists ******head cactus as the accepted common name for Echinocactus polycephalus, a small barrel cactus native to California's southern deserts. Zambia floridana, a beautiful dwarf native American cycad, has been called a Coontie, a reference to the tree's long, slender, green leaves. And in Australia, grass trees (Xanthorrhoe minor) are sometimes referred to as Blackboys, apparently because their palm-like trunks, often burned black by grass fires, remind some of Australian aborigines. A religious or an ethnic reference in a compound vernacular name is bound to connote or imply the existence of an inferior or socially unusual quality. Thus, common names such as Pope's Nose (Proboscides jussieui), Jew Bush (Pedilanthus tithymaloides), and Jew's Mallow (Kerria japonic) have derogatory religious and ethnic origins. Jew's Beard (Tacca chantrieri) is a reference to the tropical plant's whisker-like inflorescence, which to some botanists seems to bear a resemblance to the beards of Orthodox Jews. Other, more appropriate common names for this plant include the Bat-flower and Cat's whiskers (with all due respect, of course, to bats and cats). The name Coolie's Cap, which makes reference to the pill box-like hats worn by 19th-century Chinese immigrants, is still sometimes used as the common name for Holmskioldia sanguina. In his book Common Names of South African Plants (Pretoria, Department of Agriculture Technical Services, 1966), Christo Smith points out the unfortunate frequency of use in compound vernacular names of the term Hottentot (as in Hottentot's Head for Strangeria eriopus). Smith writes: "Kaffir is not infrequently used in a derogatory sense to indicate some alleged inferiority..." He then goes on to list 75 common South African plant names that use the term. In an article in the Cactus and Succulent Journal (51[5]:238-41, 1979), author Bruce Hargreaves wrote about Talinum caffrum, a succulent from Africa's Kalahari Desert, noting, "I apologize for using a racist term;~ `caffer,' or `kaffir,' a term derived from the Arabic for unbeliever, is the South African equivalent of `******'--but I didn't name this plant." Hargreaves's dilemma stemmed from caffrum's being the scientific rather than popular botanical name; that is, in his scientific writings he had no choice other than to use it. However, we certainly do have a choice in our use of plant names. How many subtropical gardeners in the United States realize the racially derogatory implications of referring to Kaffir-lilies (Clivia minata or Schizostylis coccinea), Kaffirboom Coral Trees (Erythina caffra), or Kaffir plums (Harpephyllum caffra)? The origin of some derogatory or racist names that remain in the common botanical vernacular without malicious intent--or so one prefers to think--are so obscure that they are used by people who would never dream of using such obviously offensive common names like ******finger cactus or Coolie's Cap. The widespread use of Digger pine for Pinus sabiniana is a good example. The tree grows on dry, rocky slopes, below 4,500 feet, on hills bordering California's Central Valley and interior coastal ranges. Sunset Books' widely used New Western Garden Book (Menlo Park, Calif., 1980) designates this tree as a "marker plant"--a plant delineating an important Western climatic gardening zone. (Sunset's Zone 7, "California's Digger Pine Belt," is a several-thousand-square-mile area with hot summers and mild, but pronounced winters.) When the gold-seeking Forty-Niners poured into California during the last century, they had little respect for the native people they encountered. Secure in their belief of racial and religious superiority, they mockingly called the Native Americans of the area "diggers" when they saw them foraging for roots and bulbs. Pinus sabiniana's common name originated when the prospectors noted the tree's value to California Indians. Understandably, many Native Americans find the term digger offensive. A spokesman, who requests anonymity, for the California State Native American Heritage Commission says, "The word `digger' is very derogatory and insulting to California Indian people." A historical interpreter, who also requests anonymity, for the California State Indian Museum in Sacramento agrees: "To call a California Indian a `digger' means you are either ignorant or you are purposely trying to insult him. It is a very derisive word." These observers concur in the opinion that the term digger is as offensive to California's Native Americans as the term ****** is to African Americans. Of course, terms like ******head and Digger pine should have been purged from botanical literature long ago. However, botanical books and magazines containing these offensive common plant names are currently widely available. Surprisingly, there is a great reticence among botanical scientists to challenge the existence of these racist relics in the garden. Before The Scientist agreed to publish this article, the idea had been rejected by a half-dozen regional and national horticultural and garden magazines. The editor of one scholarly West Coast journal, which represents a number of influential horticulture societies, rejected the idea by responding, "I feel it would stress the sociological implications at the expense of the botanical. Into an article [on plants] the origin and implication of the vernacular name might fit with a sentence or two." A prominent California horticultural society also shied away from a discussion of racially derogatory common plant names. The editor of the society's journal commented: "The subject is inappropriate and appears to create a quarrel where there isn't one at present . . . your charge of racism is a little dramatic, I feel." On the bright side, some editors have taken an active role in eliminating racially offensive cololoquial names for plants. James C. Hickman, editor of The Jepson Manual--a botanical reference work soon to be published by the University of California Press--reports that, in the manual, "Echinocactus will be called `clustered barrel cactus,' a simply descriptive name. Pinus sabiniana will be called `gray pine' or `foothill pine.' " However, Hickman notes, "Because it is so widely and innocently known as `digger pine,' we included a note asking people not to use that name because of its pejorative origin. I think this is better than not mentioning the issue at all." Hickman adds, "The other name I know of that will not be used is `wandering Jew,' for Tradescantia fluminensis; it will be called spiderwort--which is possibly derogatory toward arachnids." Additionally, Hickman notes, "The dilemma, of course, is that truly colloquial or truly common names cannot be controlled, but are a matter of usage. I believe our challenge as authors and editors is a long-term one of swaying usage toward less offense without leaving innocents high and dry." Those who continue to use racially offensive plant names should be challenged. Elizabeth Knoll, sponsoring editor for science and the history of science at the University of California Press, says, "I will make it a point of telling the authors and the advisory board members--if they don't have the sense to realize it already--that racist and derogatory terms are unacceptable." However, she expresses her concern that "the very nomenclature of some sciences carry racial prejudices. My guess is that other scholars could point out more examples--a depressing and important undertaking." The problem of purging racist common names from gardening's vernacular is relatively simple compared to the much more complex problem of expunging racially based scientific names, such as Erythina caffra, Harpephyllum caffra, and Talinum caffrum. The issue of derogatory proper botanical names is more troublesome. If scientists persist in using them, and insist on their being published verbatim, writers and editors of botanical journals should, at a minimum, footnote their own objections when clarity or expedience dictates the use of a proper plant name that has been derived from a racially offensive term. The use of a racial epithet as an accepted, published botanical common name perpetuates and legitimizes bigotry, even if it does so unintentionally. Botanical editors, botanists, and gardeners should know common names such as Kaffir-lily, Digger pine, and ******head cactus are racial slurs, and they must play a forceful role in eliminating their use. To do less would leave the appearance of condoning bigotry in botany. The enlightened efforts of Knoll, Hickman, and others like them are laudable. Without their efforts, young African American or Native American scholars, perhaps just developing an interest in botany, will understandably be discouraged and disillusioned to find racist terms in botanical literature. One can only imagine the damage that already has been done in this regard. Melvin Hunter is an Atascadero, Calif.-based science writer specializing in botanical subjects. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 © Copyright 1991, The Scientist, Inc. All rights reserved. We welcome your opinion. If you would like to comment on this article, please write us at News | Opinions & Letters | Research | Hot Papers | LabConsumer | Profession About The Scientist | Jobs | Classified | Web Registration | Print Subscriptions | Advertiser Information |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
"...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive
racist name for the plants ..........." Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at times???? Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Xref: kermit rec.gardens:270484 soc.men:912126 alt.religion.wicca:725937 alt.drugs.pot:384370 alt.law-enforcement:682378
Ah yes, but it is the uneducated great unwashed that are the ones that are quickly offended because they believe everyone is making fun of them anyway and they will quickly riot if they believe they are being insulted. They are the type of people who will drag Americans through the streets without a second thought. All through history it has been the great unwashed that have repeatedly toppled great civilizations and set mankind back thousands of years by doing so. "Delta Nine" wrote in message ... Darren Garrison wrote: On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800, (theoneflasehaddock) wrote: Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on The funny part is, most people who are part of the PC-protected groups have no interest in their PC names. Most black people I know want to be called black, not "African American" as that implies that they're not American born. Most deaf people I know are deaf, not hearing impared (hearing impaired implies difficulty hearing, not total lack of hearing ie deafness) The African American one brings to mind the white South African born kid who got in trouble for applying for some sort of "outstanding African American student" award because he wasn't black. Even though he had better claim to the title "African American" than any American born black kid. I mean, shit, he was ****ing *born in Africa* Political correctness was just as much of an attack on free speech as the people who believe that saying bad things about Bush is tantamount to treason. More so, actually, it's been building up for a longer time and has had much more sway than the recent war on terror trend. Remember the financial advisor in DC who had to resign for using the word "niggardly" just because it sounds similar to "******" Nevermind the fact that niggardly shares no origins with ******, and has a perfectly acceptable use given the context. It means "stingy" or "miserly" and is completely acceptable to use when talking about finances. See, that's what political correctness is about: It doesn't matter if you're right or not, it only matters if people are offended. Well guess what? There's nothing in our laws that imply you have a right not to be offended. In fact, with freedom of speech you're pretty much guaranteed to be offended at some point in your life. People just need to get a thicker skin about it, and not try to coerce others into not offending them. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: People are stupid. And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes How'd they get that name? I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll post this article I found anyway: http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 snip -- -------------- Peace, Delta Nine Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. -Buddha I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine. - T.D. Shadow |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
David Hill wrote: "...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive racist name for the plants ..........." Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at times???? Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Cereus-validus wrote:
Ah yes, but it is the uneducated great unwashed that are the ones that are quickly offended because they believe everyone is making fun of them anyway and they will quickly riot if they believe they are being insulted. They are the type of people who will drag Americans through the streets without a second thought. All through history it has been the great unwashed that have repeatedly toppled great civilizations and set mankind back thousands of years by doing so. I don't really think it's that so much as people who are professionally offended. As in, people who act like they're offended because it gives them power over others. They're usually shameless demagogues. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, I'm looking in your direction. -- -------------- Peace, Delta Nine Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. -Buddha I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine. - T.D. Shadow |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
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Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1081098382 88709182 I 66.188.211.104 ([63726]) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: Path: kermit!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!border1.nntp.as h.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.stueberl .de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!66-188-211-104.roc.mn.charter.COM!not-for-mail Xref: kermit rec.gardens:270487 I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll post this article I found anyway: http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 I think that article is best summarized by its last sentence: "One can only imagine the damage that already has been done in this regard." The operative word being "imagine." Best regards, Bob |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Probably few people outside kaffirdom know who kaffirs are--or were.
zemedelec |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
In article , Delta Nine
wrote: Darren Garrison wrote: On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800, (theoneflasehaddock) wrote: Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on The funny part is, most people who are part of the PC-protected groups have no interest in their PC names. Most black people I know want to be called black, not "African American" as that implies that they're not American born. Most deaf people I know are deaf, not hearing impared (hearing impaired implies difficulty hearing, not total lack of hearing ie deafness) The African American one brings to mind the white South African born kid who got in trouble for applying for some sort of "outstanding African American student" award because he wasn't black. Even though he had better claim to the title "African American" than any American born black kid. I mean, shit, he was ****ing *born in Africa* Political correctness was just as much of an attack on free speech as the people who believe that saying bad things about Bush is tantamount to treason. More so, actually, it's been building up for a longer time and has had much more sway than the recent war on terror trend. Remember the financial advisor in DC who had to resign for using the word "niggardly" just because it sounds similar to "******" Nevermind the fact that niggardly shares no origins with ******, and has a perfectly acceptable use given the context. It means "stingy" or "miserly" and is completely acceptable to use when talking about finances. See, that's what political correctness is about: It doesn't matter if you're right or not, it only matters if people are offended. Well guess what? There's nothing in our laws that imply you have a right not to be offended. In fact, with freedom of speech you're pretty much guaranteed to be offended at some point in your life. People just need to get a thicker skin about it, and not try to coerce others into not offending them. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: People are stupid. A lyric, not by Woody Guthrie: "Let your voice be heard, even though you're stupid You can have a word, like any other fool You've got as big a right As anyone who's bright So let your voice be heard." People who have the "people are stupid" philosophy of life tend to leave out the most significant stupid person when tallying who are these people, which of course would start with the individual with that philosophy. As long as you're not REALLY saying "Everyone is stupid except me" then I will agree with you, because the rant above is one of the stupidest I've seen on UseNet this week, & that's really going some. Even though I actually do embrace the philosophy that people are stupid, I wouldn't exclude many people at all, certainly not you or myself. Cuz even on the rare occasion when I'm the smartest person in a given gathering, that still needn't be exactly smart. You've mistaken politeness for political correctness, & you've ranted on irrationally. If you approach all of life like this, I hope no one ever gives you a bucket of phlegm, because you'll be mistaking it for Budweiser. Now to me politeness is a personal choice, one I frequently do not choose, but people who do choose it I'm not going to mistake for ******s who wish they could impose their differing standard on me. That said, underlying your loony-tunes rant against your own straw dog called "political correctness," it is at least true that it's a stupid idea to insist a Kaffir Lily can't be called a Kaffir Lily because on a completely different continent Kaffir is a hate-word spewed primarily from the trashy mouths of a bunch of butt-ugly honky-eqivalent Afrikaaners. One might avoid the word if one seriously desires to be excessively polite even in contexts when only a putz would get offended, that's fine, but that does make it laughable that Ceroid of all people should pretend it mattered to him, since he's not one to suffer our fellow fools gently. Frankly if I went into a nursery & asked if they had any Berg Lilies, they wouldn't have a clue what the **** I was after, & when they figured out what I really meant & corrected that to Kaffir, that'd just be a pushy set-up to talk about what the word means on a different continent to a specific class of racist whites -- whites so low in the class structure that no self-respecting Bantu would condescend to reply to such physical & mental dwarfs. If not for the World Wide Web, to anyone who'd never been to South Africa, Kaffir means "a pretty flower from somewhere in Africa," nothing more or less. The Arabic word actually means "rejector of Truth" or "believer in lies," i.e., unconverted to Islam, a believer in some other faith, or an Infidel. So the biggest dumbest Kaffirs in Africa are those ugly-ass honky Calvinists. Among Islamic peoples it is still used to mean a Christian, a Hindu, an atheist, anyone who has had the opportunity to convert to the "Truth" but has refused, & it has no racial meaning at all. In medieval East Africa after long contact with Muslims, even tribal peoples borrowed the word to mean "all tribal peoples," as there'd been no universal trade-word for aboriginal peoples collectively. The word was in use for CENTURIES before white south african racists began to use it like the equivalent of American white trashoids' use of the word ******. Curiously, when modern fundamentalist Islamic nutcakes use the word "Kaffir," they even today do NOT mean black folks, let alone African aboriginal peoples; it still means "Infidel" & 99 times out of a 100 when they use the word, it is to describe someone who is a white christian or a non-Moslem in India. In India there used to be Kaffir clubs for white Europeans living in India, the word being unknown as a racial epithet but well known as a synonym for Heathen -- to be a member of the Suicide Club, the Philistine Club, or a Kaffir Club was to be a person of bohemian disposition out for a good time. If Ice T says "******," when Lenny Bruce said "******," if Mark Mathabane calls himself a "Kaffir boy," if I fill this paragraph with the words "******" & "kaffir," that's totally different from someone waving a Confederate flag, putting on a white hood, & saying let's go kill some ******s, or climbing out of their pig stye covered in pigshit & calling for a new Fuzzy Wuzzy War to reinstate Apartheid. So too a gardener who loves their kaffir lily is not the same as some Dutch ****** descended from filth & filth to this day looking REAL hard for an excuse to look down on ANYone lest they have to face their own actual social reality. Out of mere politeness & self-preservation, on any journey to South Africa, one should not be asking about the Kaffir Lilies, but might want to call them Berg Lilies or River Lilies or get all fancy-ass & call them by their Bantu name khahlana, as it really would otherwise & indeed be like saying ****** Toes while walking over to visit President Clinton in his Harlem offices. But since the word neither inherently in its origin or in its continuous multiple meanings has the racist context it has for the most ugly-ass Calvinists in South Africa, the word is not necessarily tainted for use elsewhere in other contexts. If a Muslim calls me a Kaffir, I know he's a fool who hates Jews & Christians & Hindus en masse; if a Dutch South African calls native peoples Kaffirs, I know he's a fool who projects a justified self-hatred on his betters; but if a gardener speaks of their Kaffirs, I assume they love flowers. Really, to assume some South African visiting in North America would be offended by the name Kaffir Lily is to make the horrible & perhaps racist assumption that such people are so fabulously low-IQ as to be unable to see there is no longer any context whatsoever for the word to mean anything but a flower. The day may come when Kaffir Corn, Kaffir Plum, & Kaffir Lily are no longer used names, but it must first become common knowledge that the word can be hurtful in some distant place when used by the sorts of white people most of us would not want in our houses -- & how much better to rob the word of its power to hurt, instead of spreading that power around the globe by "educating" people to its power. I'm reminded that among some local Northwest tribal peoples, the word "Ahu!" is a shout of praise, shouted from the audience to a speaker on important topics. I attended a peace rally & as the Native American medicine man spoke, friends in the audience shouted "Ahu!" periodically, & afterword a Japanese Buddhist monk in his flowing robes & shaved head got up to speak, but he was so tickled he couldn't speak for thirty seconds, & then explained in his heavy accent that in his country, "Ahu!" means "Stupid!" So anyone who wishes to clean the word "Kaffir Lily" out of their personal vocabulary because, hey, this is the world wide web, & it really is like hanging out at least partly in South Africa -- then for that choice I say "Ahu!", hooray!, how polite you are. But if someone just thinks it's a vulgar word in every context & nobody should use it anywhere ever who isn't a racist, then to them I also say "Ahu!", stupid! -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/ |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
The message
from "David Hill" contains these words: Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". To help you avoid being offensive due to ignorance; the term kaffir equates to "******", not "black". Janet |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Judy wrote in message ...
David Hill wrote: "...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive racist name for the plants ..........." Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at times???? Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes How'd they get that name? - theoneflasehaddock |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
I think this says it all..........
During the 1990's a former UK officer serving with the Bermuda constabulary for a number of years was accused of calling a black officer a 'kaffer'. The allegation was treated seriously and instead of dealing with the issue by way of discipline, the officer found himself summonsed to appear at Magistrate's court in Hamilton, Bermuda for an offence of 'insulting words and / or behaviour'. One questions whether the UK officer could have been treated fairly; the matter was investigated and considered by the prosecution service. No one, when handling what was a career destroying allegation against the former UK officer, could find in his favour, the matter progressed to Court. What could the prosecution team do, call the black officer a liar? As is the way in Court proceedings, the prosecution put their case at the Magistrates Court. The evidence against the officer was the word of the person he allegedly called 'kaffer'; a fellow serving officer. The evidence was given and apart from refute the allegation and stress that the words were never uttered, what could the officer, or his defence counsel, do? Before the black officer, making the allegation, was released (allowed to leave the witness box) the Judge put a question to him: "officer, what do you understand the term 'kaffir' to mean" The reply from the black officer: "I don't know what it means" Case dismissed. If you do not know what something means then they cannot cause you offence, the offence is not complete -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
David Hill wrote:
...Before the black officer, making the allegation, was released (allowed to leave the witness box) the Judge put a question to him: "officer, what do you understand the term 'kaffir' to mean" The reply from the black officer: "I don't know what it means" Case dismissed. If you do not know what something means then they cannot cause you offence, the offence is not complete The solution is so obvious. We should *educate* people about all the words in common usage that they should be offended by. The more arcane the word is, the better -- that way we get to show off how educated and clever (and therefore superior) we are. Best regards, Bob |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
"......."Kaffir" as a derogatory term, was seeded over half the world by
British Colonials and the British Army. There are still enough white Brits using it that way to ensure that all black Brits are well aware of the insult. Janet. To help you avoid being offensive due to ignorance; the term kaffir equates to "******", not "black". Janet ........" Thank you so much Janet for pointing out the error of my ways, though as far as I know no one grows either kaffir berries or ****** berries.....just Black berries. Just a pity that your views are so bigoted and seem to relate to a different country to the one I live in....... I was at a training course once on the subject of political correctness where the lecturer was Female, in a wheelchair and with both a hearing and a sight loss.......she insisted that all people who were not Caucasian should be referred to as "Black" which she seemed to think wouldn't offend Asians or Chinese and Japanese..... Her attitude was "That is what I say , and that is what it is.......I am the expert." It is just as easy to be offensive in the way that you say something as it is by what you say. David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
David Hill wrote:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/xft/ Who are you replying to with that? -- -------------- Peace, Delta Nine Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. -Buddha I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine. - T.D. Shadow |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 18:36:57 +0100, Janet Baraclough.. wrote:
The message from "David Hill" contains these words: Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". To help you avoid being offensive due to ignorance; the term kaffir equates to "******", not "black". Yeah, but it relates to "******" in SOUTH AFRICA. A third world country just about as far away on the planet as any place can be from the US. I would understand offense IN THE UNITED STATES if someone IN THE UNITIED STATES called a plant a "****** Lily". I wouldn't use the term myself. But I do not CARE if the word is offensive in some distant country in some way that is not meaningful in my own country. I don't CARE if the word "kaffir" is a slur against ethnic Bantus in South Africa, because I'm never going to go to South Africa and am most likely never going to meet a Bantu. The thing is, many, many, many words used in one language or country has a different meaning if you go to in a different language or country. Take for instance (since you are in the UK) the word "fanny". It means "butt" in the US, and "pussy" over there. What about "shag"? Means a dance over here, and "****" over there. And that barely even touches the surface of the problem. I, personally, neither have the time or the interest to make sure that every word that I use is NOT, in some language and in some country, offensive to some individual or group. |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800, (theoneflasehaddock) wrote:
Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes How'd they get that name? I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll post this article I found anyway: http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 Opinion Racist Relics: An Ugly Blight On Our Botanical Nomenclature By Melvin Hunter Date: November 25, 1991 Racism is a disease afflicting every level of society. The symptoms are as obvious as a cross burning or as subtle as a schoolteacher's subconsciously lowered expectations. Its presence casts an ugly shadow across society--unfortunately, even into our flower gardens and the language that scientists use to describe their inhabitants. Sad to say, a number of racially offensive common plant names long ago slipped into the vernacular of gardening, and some have found their way into horticulture's most important reference books. Sadder still is the fact that several of these offensive names are still in common use. And most amazing has been the reluctance of the horticultural establishment to confront the issue and remedy it with appropriate revision of the offending nomenclature. A prime example is the term ******head--painfully offensive, yet in use throughout the world as a common plant name. In Australia, Edward Rotherham informs us in his book Flowers and Plants of New South Wales and Southern Queensland (Wellington, A.H. and A.W. Reed, 1982), ******head is the common name for Enneapogon nigricans, a stiff, black-green grass of the shrublands of New South Wales. According to John Salmon, the author of New Zealand Flowers and Plants (Wellington, A.H. and A.W. Reed, 1963), ******head reportedly is used as the common name for Carex secta, a swamp grass that rises out of the water to form a mound. And Nicholas Polunim writes in Arctic to Eastern Siberia: Circumpolar Arctic Flora (London, Oxford University Press, 1959) that ******head is used in the Arctic to refer to Eriophorum vaginatur. The names ******'s-hand cactus and ******finger cactus have been given by Margaret Martin and her coauthors in the popular Cacti and Their Cultivation (New York, Charles Scribner's Sons, 1971) for Opuntia clavarioides, a small cactus with bizarre, slender, cylindrical branches. Alfred Graf, author of the widely used botanical guidebook Exotica (East Rutherford, N.J., Roehrs Co. Inc., 1980), gives ******-wool as a common name for the New Zealand Wire Vine (Muehlenbeckia complexa), apparently in reference to the basket plant's twining, wire-like purplish brown stems. Occasionally one can still hear Brazil nuts (Bertholletia excelsa) referred to as ******-toes. Meanwhile, horticulturist P.A. Munz's California Flora and California Desert Wildflowers (University of California Press, Berkeley, 1970) lists ******head cactus as the accepted common name for Echinocactus polycephalus, a small barrel cactus native to California's southern deserts. Zambia floridana, a beautiful dwarf native American cycad, has been called a Coontie, a reference to the tree's long, slender, green leaves. And in Australia, grass trees (Xanthorrhoe minor) are sometimes referred to as Blackboys, apparently because their palm-like trunks, often burned black by grass fires, remind some of Australian aborigines. A religious or an ethnic reference in a compound vernacular name is bound to connote or imply the existence of an inferior or socially unusual quality. Thus, common names such as Pope's Nose (Proboscides jussieui), Jew Bush (Pedilanthus tithymaloides), and Jew's Mallow (Kerria japonic) have derogatory religious and ethnic origins. Jew's Beard (Tacca chantrieri) is a reference to the tropical plant's whisker-like inflorescence, which to some botanists seems to bear a resemblance to the beards of Orthodox Jews. Other, more appropriate common names for this plant include the Bat-flower and Cat's whiskers (with all due respect, of course, to bats and cats). The name Coolie's Cap, which makes reference to the pill box-like hats worn by 19th-century Chinese immigrants, is still sometimes used as the common name for Holmskioldia sanguina. In his book Common Names of South African Plants (Pretoria, Department of Agriculture Technical Services, 1966), Christo Smith points out the unfortunate frequency of use in compound vernacular names of the term Hottentot (as in Hottentot's Head for Strangeria eriopus). Smith writes: "Kaffir is not infrequently used in a derogatory sense to indicate some alleged inferiority..." He then goes on to list 75 common South African plant names that use the term. In an article in the Cactus and Succulent Journal (51[5]:238-41, 1979), author Bruce Hargreaves wrote about Talinum caffrum, a succulent from Africa's Kalahari Desert, noting, "I apologize for using a racist term;~ `caffer,' or `kaffir,' a term derived from the Arabic for unbeliever, is the South African equivalent of `******'--but I didn't name this plant." Hargreaves's dilemma stemmed from caffrum's being the scientific rather than popular botanical name; that is, in his scientific writings he had no choice other than to use it. However, we certainly do have a choice in our use of plant names. How many subtropical gardeners in the United States realize the racially derogatory implications of referring to Kaffir-lilies (Clivia minata or Schizostylis coccinea), Kaffirboom Coral Trees (Erythina caffra), or Kaffir plums (Harpephyllum caffra)? The origin of some derogatory or racist names that remain in the common botanical vernacular without malicious intent--or so one prefers to think--are so obscure that they are used by people who would never dream of using such obviously offensive common names like ******finger cactus or Coolie's Cap. The widespread use of Digger pine for Pinus sabiniana is a good example. The tree grows on dry, rocky slopes, below 4,500 feet, on hills bordering California's Central Valley and interior coastal ranges. Sunset Books' widely used New Western Garden Book (Menlo Park, Calif., 1980) designates this tree as a "marker plant"--a plant delineating an important Western climatic gardening zone. (Sunset's Zone 7, "California's Digger Pine Belt," is a several-thousand-square-mile area with hot summers and mild, but pronounced winters.) When the gold-seeking Forty-Niners poured into California during the last century, they had little respect for the native people they encountered. Secure in their belief of racial and religious superiority, they mockingly called the Native Americans of the area "diggers" when they saw them foraging for roots and bulbs. Pinus sabiniana's common name originated when the prospectors noted the tree's value to California Indians. Understandably, many Native Americans find the term digger offensive. A spokesman, who requests anonymity, for the California State Native American Heritage Commission says, "The word `digger' is very derogatory and insulting to California Indian people." A historical interpreter, who also requests anonymity, for the California State Indian Museum in Sacramento agrees: "To call a California Indian a `digger' means you are either ignorant or you are purposely trying to insult him. It is a very derisive word." These observers concur in the opinion that the term digger is as offensive to California's Native Americans as the term ****** is to African Americans. Of course, terms like ******head and Digger pine should have been purged from botanical literature long ago. However, botanical books and magazines containing these offensive common plant names are currently widely available. Surprisingly, there is a great reticence among botanical scientists to challenge the existence of these racist relics in the garden. Before The Scientist agreed to publish this article, the idea had been rejected by a half-dozen regional and national horticultural and garden magazines. The editor of one scholarly West Coast journal, which represents a number of influential horticulture societies, rejected the idea by responding, "I feel it would stress the sociological implications at the expense of the botanical. Into an article [on plants] the origin and implication of the vernacular name might fit with a sentence or two." A prominent California horticultural society also shied away from a discussion of racially derogatory common plant names. The editor of the society's journal commented: "The subject is inappropriate and appears to create a quarrel where there isn't one at present . . . your charge of racism is a little dramatic, I feel." On the bright side, some editors have taken an active role in eliminating racially offensive cololoquial names for plants. James C. Hickman, editor of The Jepson Manual--a botanical reference work soon to be published by the University of California Press--reports that, in the manual, "Echinocactus will be called `clustered barrel cactus,' a simply descriptive name. Pinus sabiniana will be called `gray pine' or `foothill pine.' " However, Hickman notes, "Because it is so widely and innocently known as `digger pine,' we included a note asking people not to use that name because of its pejorative origin. I think this is better than not mentioning the issue at all." Hickman adds, "The other name I know of that will not be used is `wandering Jew,' for Tradescantia fluminensis; it will be called spiderwort--which is possibly derogatory toward arachnids." Additionally, Hickman notes, "The dilemma, of course, is that truly colloquial or truly common names cannot be controlled, but are a matter of usage. I believe our challenge as authors and editors is a long-term one of swaying usage toward less offense without leaving innocents high and dry." Those who continue to use racially offensive plant names should be challenged. Elizabeth Knoll, sponsoring editor for science and the history of science at the University of California Press, says, "I will make it a point of telling the authors and the advisory board members--if they don't have the sense to realize it already--that racist and derogatory terms are unacceptable." However, she expresses her concern that "the very nomenclature of some sciences carry racial prejudices. My guess is that other scholars could point out more examples--a depressing and important undertaking." The problem of purging racist common names from gardening's vernacular is relatively simple compared to the much more complex problem of expunging racially based scientific names, such as Erythina caffra, Harpephyllum caffra, and Talinum caffrum. The issue of derogatory proper botanical names is more troublesome. If scientists persist in using them, and insist on their being published verbatim, writers and editors of botanical journals should, at a minimum, footnote their own objections when clarity or expedience dictates the use of a proper plant name that has been derived from a racially offensive term. The use of a racial epithet as an accepted, published botanical common name perpetuates and legitimizes bigotry, even if it does so unintentionally. Botanical editors, botanists, and gardeners should know common names such as Kaffir-lily, Digger pine, and ******head cactus are racial slurs, and they must play a forceful role in eliminating their use. To do less would leave the appearance of condoning bigotry in botany. The enlightened efforts of Knoll, Hickman, and others like them are laudable. Without their efforts, young African American or Native American scholars, perhaps just developing an interest in botany, will understandably be discouraged and disillusioned to find racist terms in botanical literature. One can only imagine the damage that already has been done in this regard. Melvin Hunter is an Atascadero, Calif.-based science writer specializing in botanical subjects. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 © Copyright 1991, The Scientist, Inc. All rights reserved. We welcome your opinion. If you would like to comment on this article, please write us at News | Opinions & Letters | Research | Hot Papers | LabConsumer | Profession About The Scientist | Jobs | Classified | Web Registration | Print Subscriptions | Advertiser Information |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
paghat wrote:
So anyone who wishes to clean the word "Kaffir Lily" out of their personal vocabulary because, hey, this is the world wide web, & it really is like hanging out at least partly in South Africa -- then for that choice I say "Ahu!", hooray!, how polite you are. But if someone just thinks it's a vulgar word in every context & nobody should use it anywhere ever who isn't a racist, then to them I also say "Ahu!", stupid! -paghat the ratgirl Words are nothing but letters or sounds put together, depending on whether you're writing or speaking. In and of themselves, those letters or sounds are not offensive alone or together. Context makes them offensive. There is the context of the writer or speaker, and the context of the reader or listener involved here. Some people are so offended when they read or hear particular words that they can't or won't consider the context of the writer or speaker. My personal opinion is that our problems, in order of severity and importantance a 1. Writers/speakers who intend their words to be offensive in context, 2. Readers/listeners who are so offended by particular words that they don't consider the writer/speaker's context, 3. Readers/listeners who misinterpret the writer/speaker's context, 4. Writers/speakers who don't take reasonable care to see that their context is not easily misinterpreted to be offensive, 5. Writers/speakers and readers/listeners who aren't even aware that they words could be offensive in certain contexts. Unfortunately too many people focus on the least severe and important situation. That means either the more severe and important issues have been resolved (ha!), or they have nothing better to do than raise hell. (Or perhaps they're not equipped to handle the more important issues, and draw attention away from their inabilities by making such a big deal over the less important issues.) But it all still comes down to context. Words are just letters or sounds. Context gives those words meaning. It is only once they have meaning that they can be offensive. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates he http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
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Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: solaris.cc.vt.edu 1081093118 575 198.82.113.120 (4 Apr 2004 15:38:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:38:38 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: Path: kermit!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!border1.nntp.as h.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.glorb.com!so laris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!not-for-mail Xref: kermit rec.gardens:270479 soc.men:912120 alt.religion.wicca:725928 alt.drugs.pot:384359 alt.law-enforcement:682377 Darren Garrison wrote: On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800, (theoneflasehaddock) wrote: Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on The funny part is, most people who are part of the PC-protected groups have no interest in their PC names. Most black people I know want to be called black, not "African American" as that implies that they're not American born. Most deaf people I know are deaf, not hearing impared (hearing impaired implies difficulty hearing, not total lack of hearing ie deafness) The African American one brings to mind the white South African born kid who got in trouble for applying for some sort of "outstanding African American student" award because he wasn't black. Even though he had better claim to the title "African American" than any American born black kid. I mean, shit, he was ****ing *born in Africa* Political correctness was just as much of an attack on free speech as the people who believe that saying bad things about Bush is tantamount to treason. More so, actually, it's been building up for a longer time and has had much more sway than the recent war on terror trend. Remember the financial advisor in DC who had to resign for using the word "niggardly" just because it sounds similar to "******" Nevermind the fact that niggardly shares no origins with ******, and has a perfectly acceptable use given the context. It means "stingy" or "miserly" and is completely acceptable to use when talking about finances. See, that's what political correctness is about: It doesn't matter if you're right or not, it only matters if people are offended. Well guess what? There's nothing in our laws that imply you have a right not to be offended. In fact, with freedom of speech you're pretty much guaranteed to be offended at some point in your life. People just need to get a thicker skin about it, and not try to coerce others into not offending them. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: People are stupid. And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes How'd they get that name? I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll post this article I found anyway: http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 snip -- -------------- Peace, Delta Nine Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. -Buddha I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine. - T.D. Shadow |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Xref: kermit rec.gardens:270484 soc.men:912126 alt.religion.wicca:725937 alt.drugs.pot:384370 alt.law-enforcement:682378
Ah yes, but it is the uneducated great unwashed that are the ones that are quickly offended because they believe everyone is making fun of them anyway and they will quickly riot if they believe they are being insulted. They are the type of people who will drag Americans through the streets without a second thought. All through history it has been the great unwashed that have repeatedly toppled great civilizations and set mankind back thousands of years by doing so. "Delta Nine" wrote in message ... Darren Garrison wrote: On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800, (theoneflasehaddock) wrote: Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on The funny part is, most people who are part of the PC-protected groups have no interest in their PC names. Most black people I know want to be called black, not "African American" as that implies that they're not American born. Most deaf people I know are deaf, not hearing impared (hearing impaired implies difficulty hearing, not total lack of hearing ie deafness) The African American one brings to mind the white South African born kid who got in trouble for applying for some sort of "outstanding African American student" award because he wasn't black. Even though he had better claim to the title "African American" than any American born black kid. I mean, shit, he was ****ing *born in Africa* Political correctness was just as much of an attack on free speech as the people who believe that saying bad things about Bush is tantamount to treason. More so, actually, it's been building up for a longer time and has had much more sway than the recent war on terror trend. Remember the financial advisor in DC who had to resign for using the word "niggardly" just because it sounds similar to "******" Nevermind the fact that niggardly shares no origins with ******, and has a perfectly acceptable use given the context. It means "stingy" or "miserly" and is completely acceptable to use when talking about finances. See, that's what political correctness is about: It doesn't matter if you're right or not, it only matters if people are offended. Well guess what? There's nothing in our laws that imply you have a right not to be offended. In fact, with freedom of speech you're pretty much guaranteed to be offended at some point in your life. People just need to get a thicker skin about it, and not try to coerce others into not offending them. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: People are stupid. And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes How'd they get that name? I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll post this article I found anyway: http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 snip -- -------------- Peace, Delta Nine Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. -Buddha I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine. - T.D. Shadow |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 16:49:33 -0400, Darren Garrison
wrote: I, personally, neither have the time or the interest to make sure that every word that I use is NOT, in some language and in some country, offensive to some individual or group. Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference). How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words? I know it is the parents responsibility to stop such hatred. Unfortunately it isn't happening. zhan |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Cereus-validus wrote:
Ah yes, but it is the uneducated great unwashed that are the ones that are quickly offended because they believe everyone is making fun of them anyway and they will quickly riot if they believe they are being insulted. They are the type of people who will drag Americans through the streets without a second thought. All through history it has been the great unwashed that have repeatedly toppled great civilizations and set mankind back thousands of years by doing so. I don't really think it's that so much as people who are professionally offended. As in, people who act like they're offended because it gives them power over others. They're usually shameless demagogues. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, I'm looking in your direction. -- -------------- Peace, Delta Nine Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. -Buddha I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine. - T.D. Shadow |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word
perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference). How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words? I saw a queer thing this morning. A frog was sitting on a dike. I asked him, "How come you are sitting on your ass lookin' like Mick Jagger?" He told me that a big rock fell out of the sky and hit the water right in front of him it made a sound like "wop" and threw him up on the dike. Then along came a possum and a coon and he was so scared he decided to spend the day until all the big animals went away. Words are just words until someone let's them get under their skin. Use 'em right or use 'em wrong, but they're just words. |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:08:31 -0500, zhanataya wrote:
Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference). How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words? "Hate" is an emotion, not a word (okay, so "hate" IS a word, but you know what I mean). Just by writing a word that somebody, somewhere conciders offensive does NOT mean that I hate anyone. And my point is, the word "kaffir" has ABSOLUTELY NO MEANING to me, and I would be willing to bet that it has no meaning to 99.99% of all people that I have ever met in my life (I did know one white exchange student from Zimbabwae that may or may not have heard the word before). To answer your question, NO, I am NOT going to stop using a word that I have used all of my life just because it turns out that it has some impolite meaning in some distant country or at some time in the distant past. (And, BTW, out of the list you gave above, the only one I use is "Frog" to describe the French-- and it is because I WANT to insult the French). Ribbit! |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
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Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1081098382 88709182 I 66.188.211.104 ([63726]) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: Path: kermit!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!border1.nntp.as h.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.stueberl .de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!66-188-211-104.roc.mn.charter.COM!not-for-mail Xref: kermit rec.gardens:270487 I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll post this article I found anyway: http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 I think that article is best summarized by its last sentence: "One can only imagine the damage that already has been done in this regard." The operative word being "imagine." Best regards, Bob |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 18:21:23 -0400, "Ricky" wrote:
I saw a _explitive_deleted_ thing this morning. A _explitive_deleted_ was sitting on a _explitive_deleted_. I asked him, "How come you are sitting on your _explitive_deleted_ lookin' like _explitive_deleted_ Jagger?" He told me that a big rock fell out of the sky and hit the water right in front of him it made a sound like "_explitive_deleted_" and threw him up on the _explitive_deleted_. Then along came a _explitive_deleted_ and a _explitive_deleted_ and he was so scared he decided to spend the day until all the big animals went away. Cleaned up so as to not offend thin-skinned morons. |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Probably few people outside kaffirdom know who kaffirs are--or were.
zemedelec |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
In article , Delta Nine
wrote: Darren Garrison wrote: On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800, (theoneflasehaddock) wrote: Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on The funny part is, most people who are part of the PC-protected groups have no interest in their PC names. Most black people I know want to be called black, not "African American" as that implies that they're not American born. Most deaf people I know are deaf, not hearing impared (hearing impaired implies difficulty hearing, not total lack of hearing ie deafness) The African American one brings to mind the white South African born kid who got in trouble for applying for some sort of "outstanding African American student" award because he wasn't black. Even though he had better claim to the title "African American" than any American born black kid. I mean, shit, he was ****ing *born in Africa* Political correctness was just as much of an attack on free speech as the people who believe that saying bad things about Bush is tantamount to treason. More so, actually, it's been building up for a longer time and has had much more sway than the recent war on terror trend. Remember the financial advisor in DC who had to resign for using the word "niggardly" just because it sounds similar to "******" Nevermind the fact that niggardly shares no origins with ******, and has a perfectly acceptable use given the context. It means "stingy" or "miserly" and is completely acceptable to use when talking about finances. See, that's what political correctness is about: It doesn't matter if you're right or not, it only matters if people are offended. Well guess what? There's nothing in our laws that imply you have a right not to be offended. In fact, with freedom of speech you're pretty much guaranteed to be offended at some point in your life. People just need to get a thicker skin about it, and not try to coerce others into not offending them. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: People are stupid. A lyric, not by Woody Guthrie: "Let your voice be heard, even though you're stupid You can have a word, like any other fool You've got as big a right As anyone who's bright So let your voice be heard." People who have the "people are stupid" philosophy of life tend to leave out the most significant stupid person when tallying who are these people, which of course would start with the individual with that philosophy. As long as you're not REALLY saying "Everyone is stupid except me" then I will agree with you, because the rant above is one of the stupidest I've seen on UseNet this week, & that's really going some. Even though I actually do embrace the philosophy that people are stupid, I wouldn't exclude many people at all, certainly not you or myself. Cuz even on the rare occasion when I'm the smartest person in a given gathering, that still needn't be exactly smart. You've mistaken politeness for political correctness, & you've ranted on irrationally. If you approach all of life like this, I hope no one ever gives you a bucket of phlegm, because you'll be mistaking it for Budweiser. Now to me politeness is a personal choice, one I frequently do not choose, but people who do choose it I'm not going to mistake for ******s who wish they could impose their differing standard on me. That said, underlying your loony-tunes rant against your own straw dog called "political correctness," it is at least true that it's a stupid idea to insist a Kaffir Lily can't be called a Kaffir Lily because on a completely different continent Kaffir is a hate-word spewed primarily from the trashy mouths of a bunch of butt-ugly honky-eqivalent Afrikaaners. One might avoid the word if one seriously desires to be excessively polite even in contexts when only a putz would get offended, that's fine, but that does make it laughable that Ceroid of all people should pretend it mattered to him, since he's not one to suffer our fellow fools gently. Frankly if I went into a nursery & asked if they had any Berg Lilies, they wouldn't have a clue what the **** I was after, & when they figured out what I really meant & corrected that to Kaffir, that'd just be a pushy set-up to talk about what the word means on a different continent to a specific class of racist whites -- whites so low in the class structure that no self-respecting Bantu would condescend to reply to such physical & mental dwarfs. If not for the World Wide Web, to anyone who'd never been to South Africa, Kaffir means "a pretty flower from somewhere in Africa," nothing more or less. The Arabic word actually means "rejector of Truth" or "believer in lies," i.e., unconverted to Islam, a believer in some other faith, or an Infidel. So the biggest dumbest Kaffirs in Africa are those ugly-ass honky Calvinists. Among Islamic peoples it is still used to mean a Christian, a Hindu, an atheist, anyone who has had the opportunity to convert to the "Truth" but has refused, & it has no racial meaning at all. In medieval East Africa after long contact with Muslims, even tribal peoples borrowed the word to mean "all tribal peoples," as there'd been no universal trade-word for aboriginal peoples collectively. The word was in use for CENTURIES before white south african racists began to use it like the equivalent of American white trashoids' use of the word ******. Curiously, when modern fundamentalist Islamic nutcakes use the word "Kaffir," they even today do NOT mean black folks, let alone African aboriginal peoples; it still means "Infidel" & 99 times out of a 100 when they use the word, it is to describe someone who is a white christian or a non-Moslem in India. In India there used to be Kaffir clubs for white Europeans living in India, the word being unknown as a racial epithet but well known as a synonym for Heathen -- to be a member of the Suicide Club, the Philistine Club, or a Kaffir Club was to be a person of bohemian disposition out for a good time. If Ice T says "******," when Lenny Bruce said "******," if Mark Mathabane calls himself a "Kaffir boy," if I fill this paragraph with the words "******" & "kaffir," that's totally different from someone waving a Confederate flag, putting on a white hood, & saying let's go kill some ******s, or climbing out of their pig stye covered in pigshit & calling for a new Fuzzy Wuzzy War to reinstate Apartheid. So too a gardener who loves their kaffir lily is not the same as some Dutch ****** descended from filth & filth to this day looking REAL hard for an excuse to look down on ANYone lest they have to face their own actual social reality. Out of mere politeness & self-preservation, on any journey to South Africa, one should not be asking about the Kaffir Lilies, but might want to call them Berg Lilies or River Lilies or get all fancy-ass & call them by their Bantu name khahlana, as it really would otherwise & indeed be like saying ****** Toes while walking over to visit President Clinton in his Harlem offices. But since the word neither inherently in its origin or in its continuous multiple meanings has the racist context it has for the most ugly-ass Calvinists in South Africa, the word is not necessarily tainted for use elsewhere in other contexts. If a Muslim calls me a Kaffir, I know he's a fool who hates Jews & Christians & Hindus en masse; if a Dutch South African calls native peoples Kaffirs, I know he's a fool who projects a justified self-hatred on his betters; but if a gardener speaks of their Kaffirs, I assume they love flowers. Really, to assume some South African visiting in North America would be offended by the name Kaffir Lily is to make the horrible & perhaps racist assumption that such people are so fabulously low-IQ as to be unable to see there is no longer any context whatsoever for the word to mean anything but a flower. The day may come when Kaffir Corn, Kaffir Plum, & Kaffir Lily are no longer used names, but it must first become common knowledge that the word can be hurtful in some distant place when used by the sorts of white people most of us would not want in our houses -- & how much better to rob the word of its power to hurt, instead of spreading that power around the globe by "educating" people to its power. I'm reminded that among some local Northwest tribal peoples, the word "Ahu!" is a shout of praise, shouted from the audience to a speaker on important topics. I attended a peace rally & as the Native American medicine man spoke, friends in the audience shouted "Ahu!" periodically, & afterword a Japanese Buddhist monk in his flowing robes & shaved head got up to speak, but he was so tickled he couldn't speak for thirty seconds, & then explained in his heavy accent that in his country, "Ahu!" means "Stupid!" So anyone who wishes to clean the word "Kaffir Lily" out of their personal vocabulary because, hey, this is the world wide web, & it really is like hanging out at least partly in South Africa -- then for that choice I say "Ahu!", hooray!, how polite you are. But if someone just thinks it's a vulgar word in every context & nobody should use it anywhere ever who isn't a racist, then to them I also say "Ahu!", stupid! -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/ |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
zhanataya wrote: ....How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? It's not "dike", it's "dyke". I oughta know. |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
The message
from "David Hill" contains these words: Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". To help you avoid being offensive due to ignorance; the term kaffir equates to "******", not "black". Janet |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
In article , zhanataya
wrote: On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 16:49:33 -0400, Darren Garrison wrote: I, personally, neither have the time or the interest to make sure that every word that I use is NOT, in some language and in some country, offensive to some individual or group. Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference). How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words? I know it is the parents responsibility to stop such hatred. Unfortunately it isn't happening. zhan Dyke is a pretty word, a good word, a useful word; I used to stop around Seattle in a leather jacket that said DYKE on the back, & it upset nobody. My current jacket hasn't been decorated as I'm a bit old to ever again feel like being fashionable. But I still wear my Sex Pistols, Neurosis, & Dead Kennedys t-shirts, & they get more comments than ever did the Dyke jacket. Fact is, any word can be said with affection, you dear old kike you. Anyone who can't figure that out has AT LEAST as much of a problem as people who actually like the words, & very likely a bigger problem. -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/ |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
In article , "Ricky"
wrote: Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference). How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words? I saw a queer thing this morning. A frog was sitting on a dike. I asked him, "How come you are sitting on your ass lookin' like Mick Jagger?" He told me that a big rock fell out of the sky and hit the water right in front of him it made a sound like "wop" and threw him up on the dike. Then along came a possum and a coon and he was so scared he decided to spend the day until all the big animals went away. Words are just words until someone let's them get under their skin. Use 'em right or use 'em wrong, but they're just words. Right. The irony of any free speech argument being about what CANNOT be said....well, yes, words are powerful, that's why people use them. Most arguments for why not to express oneself in this manner is in reality an argument to do so. Any one who can't tell the difference between "This is my main ******" & "let's lynch some ******s" just isn't going to have any ideas worthy of their right to free speech, but I uphold their sacred right to be shallow & boring & call that "politeness" while impolitely telling other people they're not shallow & boring enough. There is nver anyone so far distant from polite who demands of others. In fact, now that I think of it, of the words Cocksuck & Polite, Politis the dirtier word -- if one judges the context of the speakers demandin milquetoast behaviors & anti-free-speech pseudo-politeness of others.There is only one good argument for cleaning up one's image: "you're addressing children, so stop being such a dirty ****." Adults telling adults how they have to speak is totally lame. "If President Kennedy got on television and said:'I'm considering appointing two or three of the top ******s in the country to my cabinet'-if it was nothing but ******, ******, ****** - in six months ****** wouldn't mean any more than good night, god bless you. when that beautiful day comes, you'll never see another ****** kid come home from school crying because some mother****er called him a ******." -Lenny Bruce "I'm a ******," Lubel said fervently. "I'm a ******!" Confused, the three teens looked at one another. One declared: "That ******'s crazy!" -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/ |
Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
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