|
AArgh... neighbors
[whining mode] New neighbors next door- to the west.
Their first week in they've cut down a *beautiful* 30 year old Black Olive tree that shaded my entire front garden- full of shade plants. Anthuriums, calatheas, ferns, teeny little gems that I had cherished for years in containers before putting them in the ground. That garden is only one year old- and now I am having to reorganize the whole darn thing. Plants are wilting faster than I can transplant them. And I thought our town had an ordinance against this sort of thing without a permit- guess that explains the city trucks I've seen stopping to take photos of the stump three times now. Would I be evil to hope they get fined? And I know about Black Olive maintenance issues- I have one. But had they bothered to live here a while before killing trees they'd have noticed that *we* always keep their walkways pressure cleaned- husband just can't seem to stop once he gets going. Not feeling too good about my new neighbors right now. [/whining mode] -- Toni South Florida USA Zone 10b http://ww.cearbhaill.com |
"Toni" wrote in message ... [whining mode] New neighbors next door- to the west. Their first week in they've cut down a *beautiful* 30 year old Black Olive tree that shaded my entire front garden- full of shade plants. Anthuriums, calatheas, ferns, teeny little gems that I had cherished for years in containers before putting them in the ground. That garden is only one year old- and now I am having to reorganize the whole darn thing. Plants are wilting faster than I can transplant them. And I thought our town had an ordinance against this sort of thing without a permit- guess that explains the city trucks I've seen stopping to take photos of the stump three times now. Would I be evil to hope they get fined? And I know about Black Olive maintenance issues- I have one. But had they bothered to live here a while before killing trees they'd have noticed that *we* always keep their walkways pressure cleaned- husband just can't seem to stop once he gets going. Not feeling too good about my new neighbors right now. [/whining mode] -- Toni South Florida USA Zone 10b http://ww.cearbhaill.com Guess you should have bought the property when you had the chance. Whining over a damn tree!? Lady, you ain't seen nothing yet! Barking dogs? Noisy, unruly kids? Boom Boxes? Loud parties that go on for hours? Unkempt lawn? Oddly painted house? And on and on and on... Get the picture? |
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:54:23 -0400, "Toni" wrote:
[whining mode] New neighbors next door- to the west. Their first week in they've cut down a *beautiful* 30 year old Black Olive tree that shaded my entire front garden- full of shade plants. Anthuriums, calatheas, ferns, teeny little gems that I had cherished for years in containers before putting them in the ground. That garden is only one year old- and now I am having to reorganize the whole darn thing. Plants are wilting faster than I can transplant them. And I thought our town had an ordinance against this sort of thing without a permit- guess that explains the city trucks I've seen stopping to take photos of the stump three times now. Would I be evil to hope they get fined? Your town has an ordinance that requires a homeowner to get a permit to cut down a tree on his own property? Yikes! Sure glad I live in the "Live Free or Die" state. We just tax the trees that you cut down. No income or sales taxes but we have lots of little ones. John |
John Bachman wrote:
Your town has an ordinance that requires a homeowner to get a permit to cut down a tree on his own property? Yikes! Sure glad I live in the "Live Free or Die" state. We just tax the trees that you cut down. No income or sales taxes but we have lots of little ones. So freedom is the right to adversely affect the lives of others just because you happen to be standing on property you own? With freedom comes responsibility, or else we don't have freedom. We would have anarchy. Laws, such as those that prevent the willy-nilly chopping down of mature trees, attempt to balance the freedoms of everyone affected, not just the freedoms of the owner of the lot where the trunk happens to come down. Simply imposing a tax, as you say your state does, means that only people who can afford freedom are allowed freedom. And that's not freedom at all. Whether or not a tree should be allowed to be cut down should depend on an examination of the particular situation, and not just an examination of someone's wallet. There are situations when trees should be cut down, and there are situations when trees shouldn't be cut down. I'm not saying that just because a tree gives me shade, my neighbor shouldn't be allowed to cut it down. Nor am I saying that my need for an unobstructed view mean that my neighbor shouldn't be allowed to construct a cellular phone tower on his or her front lawn, either. The situations need to be considered on their own merits, and in whole. The ownership of the land involved may be a factor in who can initiate consideration of the situation. It may, in some situations, be the most important consideration. But it shouldn't always be the most important consideration, nor should it be the only consideration. We live together on this planet. Being rich enough to own land, or rich enough to afford fees or taxes shouldn't give someone a higher right to impose on my right of freedom. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. What's on TV? See the new fall network schedules online: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/tele.../fall2005.html |
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:39:33 -0700, "Warren"
wrote: John Bachman wrote: Your town has an ordinance that requires a homeowner to get a permit to cut down a tree on his own property? Yikes! Sure glad I live in the "Live Free or Die" state. We just tax the trees that you cut down. No income or sales taxes but we have lots of little ones. So freedom is the right to adversely affect the lives of others just because you happen to be standing on property you own? Are you saying that I should need permission to remove a tree that makes a mess so that I do not disturb my neighbor's garden? That is what the OP was complaining about. With freedom comes responsibility, or else we don't have freedom. We would have anarchy. Laws, such as those that prevent the willy-nilly chopping down of mature trees, attempt to balance the freedoms of everyone affected, not just the freedoms of the owner of the lot where the trunk happens to come down. So society should decide whether that tree comes down? Does not sound like freedom to me. Simply imposing a tax, as you say your state does, means that only people who can afford freedom are allowed freedom. And that's not freedom at all. Whether or not a tree should be allowed to be cut down should depend on an examination of the particular situation, and not just an examination of someone's wallet. Nope, the tax only comes into play when you cut down a significant number of trees. The income from the logs more than pays the tax. I ran into this unexpectedly when I cleared two acres of my lot to put in an orchard, small fruits and vegetables. I suppose by your logic I might never have my beautiful garden if some nut thought that the trees should stay. Sure glad that I do not live in such a place. There are situations when trees should be cut down, and there are situations when trees shouldn't be cut down. Who decides in your world? I'm not saying that just because a tree gives me shade, my neighbor shouldn't be allowed to cut it down. Nor am I saying that my need for an unobstructed view mean that my neighbor shouldn't be allowed to construct a cellular phone tower on his or her front lawn, either. The situations need to be considered on their own merits, and in whole. The ownership of the land involved may be a factor in who can initiate consideration of the situation. It may, in some situations, be the most important consideration. But it shouldn't always be the most important consideration, nor should it be the only consideration. Who decides? We live together on this planet. Being rich enough to own land, or rich enough to afford fees or taxes shouldn't give someone a higher right to impose on my right of freedom. In my world you are free to do as you please as long as it is lawful. So am I. That is freedom. John |
"Hound Dog" wrote in message ... Lady, you ain't seen nothing yet! Barking dogs? Noisy, unruly kids? Boom Boxes? Loud parties that go on for hours? Unkempt lawn? Oddly painted house? And on and on and on... Get the picture? How about neighbors that cut YOUR trees! That's what I had to deal with. I feel for you though. I love my shade garden, too. Your new neighbors sound like they are clueless. Hope you have someplace to put the plants you saved. Karen |
"Warren" expounded:
So freedom is the right to adversely affect the lives of others just because you happen to be standing on property you own? Yea, I guess it does, if that's how you want to look at it. If I own the property, and I want more sun where a tree shades, then I can cut the tree down - without asking anyone's permission (and here in MA we don't have to pay a tax on it). At least that's the way it works around here. I wouldn't want it any other way. -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** |
Ann wrote:
"Warren" expounded: So freedom is the right to adversely affect the lives of others just because you happen to be standing on property you own? Yea, I guess it does, if that's how you want to look at it. If I own the property, and I want more sun where a tree shades, then I can cut the tree down - without asking anyone's permission (and here in MA we don't have to pay a tax on it). At least that's the way it works around here. I wouldn't want it any other way. So clear-cutting forests, strip mining, damming of rivers and all other kinds of mass environmental damage is fine with you as long as the owner of the property is the one doing it? If you can cut down your tree, why can't a lumber company clear-cut an entire forest? What if your neighbor was a farmer, and the trees you cut down resulted in erosion that wiped-out his entire crop? You owned the land the trees were on. Didn't you have the right to cut them down regardless of what damage it did to the environment or economy? I'm sure glad it's not your way in most places in this country. I'm glad that most places have sensible land use rules that address environmental concerns, and who owns the land is not the only criteria used to determine if something can be done. That kind of thinking goes more with a feudal system than it does with a free society. (Note that it's a free society, not a bunch of free individuals. That's anarchy.) -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. What's on TV? See the new fall network schedules online: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/tele.../fall2005.html |
In article ,
"Toni" wrote: - [whining mode] New neighbors next door- to the west. - Their first week in they've cut down a *beautiful* 30 year old Black Olive - tree that shaded my entire front garden- full of shade plants. Anthuriums, - calatheas, ferns, teeny little gems that I had cherished for years in - containers before putting them in the ground. - That garden is only one year old- and now I am having to reorganize the - whole darn thing. Plants are wilting faster than I can transplant them. - - And I thought our town had an ordinance against this sort of thing without a - permit- guess that explains the city trucks I've seen stopping to take - photos of the stump three times now. - Would I be evil to hope they get fined? - - And I know about Black Olive maintenance issues- I have one. But had they - bothered to live here a while before killing trees they'd have noticed that - *we* always keep their walkways pressure cleaned- husband just can't seem to - stop once he gets going. - Not feeling too good about my new neighbors right now. [/whining mode] Some people just hate trees. When I was a kid my step-father cut down a beautiful weeping willow tree in our backyard. Later, after I moved out, he cut down the tree in the front yard, too. -- 8^)~~~ Sue (remove the x to e-mail) ~~~~~~ "I reserve the absolute right to be smarter today than I was yesterday." -Adlai Stevenson http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/ http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/ http://www.intergnat.com/pussygames/ |
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:13:24 -0700, "Warren"
wrote: Ann wrote: "Warren" expounded: So freedom is the right to adversely affect the lives of others just because you happen to be standing on property you own? Yea, I guess it does, if that's how you want to look at it. If I own the property, and I want more sun where a tree shades, then I can cut the tree down - without asking anyone's permission (and here in MA we don't have to pay a tax on it). At least that's the way it works around here. I wouldn't want it any other way. So clear-cutting forests, strip mining, damming of rivers and all other kinds of mass environmental damage is fine with you as long as the owner of the property is the one doing it? If you can cut down your tree, why can't a lumber company clear-cut an entire forest? What if your neighbor was a farmer, and the trees you cut down resulted in erosion that wiped-out his entire crop? You owned the land the trees were on. Didn't you have the right to cut them down regardless of what damage it did to the environment or economy? A sure sign that a person is losing a debate is when they extend the subject to a ridiculous extreme. We were talking about one tree and you have tried to extend the same principles to earth scorching. End of conversation. John |
John Bachman wrote:
A sure sign that a person is losing a debate is when they extend the subject to a ridiculous extreme. We were talking about one tree and you have tried to extend the same principles to earth scorching. My response was to your earlier message that said:: Your town has an ordinance that requires a homeowner to get a permit to cut down a tree on his own property? Yikes! Sure glad I live in the "Live Free or Die" state. We just tax the trees that you cut down. No income or sales taxes but we have lots of little ones. So it was you that opened the scope of the discussion beyond that one tree. A sure sign that a person is losing a debate is when they accuse someone else's point as being a "ridiculous extreme" instead of addressing the issue. So how does the world work in your view that all it should take to cut down trees is to pay a tax? Or do you really have some additional criteria as to who has the freedom to do that on their property, and who doesn't? Apparently you're in favor of you having the right, but when someone else clear-cuts a forest, that's a "ridiculous extreme", and isn't covered by your ideas of freedom. So where do you draw the line? Instead of pouting about how the example is a "ridiculous extreme", why don't you address the point, and tell us where you're drawing the line, and why? Or was my position a ridiculous extreme. In case you missed it, I said: "There are situations when trees should be cut down, and there are situations when trees shouldn't be cut down. I'm not saying that just because a tree gives me shade, my neighbor shouldn't be allowed to cut it down. Nor am I saying that my need for an unobstructed view mean that my neighbor shouldn't be allowed to construct a cellular phone tower on his or her front lawn, either. The situations need to be considered on their own merits, and in whole. The ownership of the land involved may be a factor in who can initiate consideration of the situation. It may, in some situations, be the most important consideration. But it shouldn't always be the most important consideration, nor should it be the only consideration." Is that a "ridiculous extreme"? If you've got a point, make it. Or do you want to stand on your "End of conversation" comment? If that's all you had to say in response, then you wasted your time. You said nothing. You haven't been the least bit convincing. So do you believe that a property owner should be able to cut down all the trees they want without regard to others (so long as they can afford to pay the tax), or is that not your position? And if that's not your position, where are you drawing the line, and why? And how do you justify it compared to my "ridiculous extreme" position? -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. What's on TV? See the new fall network schedules online: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/tele.../fall2005.html |
"Toni" wrote in message ... [whining mode] New neighbors next door- to the west. Their first week in they've cut down a *beautiful* 30 year old Black Olive tree that shaded my entire front garden- full of shade plants. Anthuriums, calatheas, ferns, teeny little gems that I had cherished for years in containers before putting them in the ground. That garden is only one year old- and now I am having to reorganize the whole darn thing. Plants are wilting faster than I can transplant them. And I thought our town had an ordinance against this sort of thing without a permit- guess that explains the city trucks I've seen stopping to take photos of the stump three times now. Would I be evil to hope they get fined? And I know about Black Olive maintenance issues- I have one. But had they bothered to live here a while before killing trees they'd have noticed that *we* always keep their walkways pressure cleaned- husband just can't seem to stop once he gets going. Not feeling too good about my new neighbors right now. [/whining mode] -- Toni South Florida USA Zone 10b http://ww.cearbhaill.com Perhaps your new next door neighbor wanted to have a beautiful sun lit lawn with rose beds and other sun loving flowers as much as you wanted your shade garden. Perhaps he had to have the tree cut down by order of the city due to the tree's root system damaging the sidewalks, street or sewer system. Perhaps the tree was diseased and needed to be removed. Or perhaps he just didn't like the tree! Did you introduce yourself and let them know just how you felt about that tree? |
John Bachman wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:54:23 -0400, "Toni" wrote: [...] And I thought our town had an ordinance against this sort of thing without a permit- guess that explains the city trucks I've seen stopping to take photos of the stump three times now. Would I be evil to hope they get fined? Your town has an ordinance that requires a homeowner to get a permit to cut down a tree on his own property? Yikes! Sure glad I live in the "Live Free or Die" state. We just tax the trees that you cut down. No income or sales taxes but we have lots of little ones. John Actually, in many places trees in the front yard are not on someone's property - they're on city property. Check out your lot lines, you may be surpised how much of the city's property you're taking care of. And while I believe in freedom to my own thing, and you to do yours, if I interfere with your peace and enjoyment of your property or vice-versa, even if I do what I do entirely on my own property (or you on yours), then you have a legitimate grievance (and vice versa). Freedom to my own thing ends where your right to peace and quiet begins. And vice versa. Then there is the genral rule that trees in the city are good for everybody, not just those on whose property they happen to grow. So everybody has an interest in preserving them (or cutting them down if they get dangerously rotten, etc.) The closer we live together, and the more of us live together in one place, the less individual freedom there can be. Aren't you glad you live in a society that believes that the nmecessary compromises should be governed by law, and not imposed by bute force? |
"Toni" wrote in message ... [whining mode] New neighbors next door- to the west. Their first week in they've cut down a *beautiful* 30 year old Black Olive tree that shaded my entire front garden- full of shade plants. Anthuriums, calatheas, ferns, teeny little gems that I had cherished for years in containers before putting them in the ground. That garden is only one year old- and now I am having to reorganize the whole darn thing. Plants are wilting faster than I can transplant them. Aren't neighbors grand! I had an elderly couple living next door for years. They took great care of the place, were friendly, and made an effort to do some gardening. They moved last July and some trashy woman moved in along with her nephew and son. They have three cars, a truck, and two motorcycles. Rather than shift the cars, they space them out in the driveway so they can weave around the vehicles when they need to go somewhere. The driveway is rather short, so they have to park across the sidewalk and one car is parked so the rear half of the car in the street. Last year they cut the grass three times. This year they set the mower deck so low that it scalps the grass, presumably so they won't have to mow very often. On Mother's Day weekend, the woman bought a flat of petunias. She planted a couple of cell pack, distributed a few more around her beds, and left a half-full flat in the bed next to the garage. She hasn't touched the plants since, so now there are half-dead annuals, still in the cell packs, sprinkled around the yard. Unfortunately, she hasn't trimmed, edged, or weeded since she moved in and there are huge weeds and saplings growing all over. Two weeks ago she decided to clean-up a bit, but after a few minutes she abandoned the job leaving her tools and a black plastic drum liner in the yard next to a couple gallon nursery liners with dead plants she bought last fall but never planted. There are soda cans, cigarette butts, dog toys, and assorted lawn furniture strewn around the yard. One would think that between her fat ass and the two "study" bubbas and their illegitimate children they could manage to clean-up the place but they seldom leave the house, choosing to stay sealed inside with the AC running when the temperatures are in the 60s! When they do come outside they give us a cold glare or pretend we don't exist. I see some tall shrubs in my future! |
Well, it's not always a neighbor. The backyard gardener show on PBS had a
segment recently in a which a straight-line windstorm had upended an enormous 100 year old oak in the middle of summer. He had an entire shade garden under the tree, which was now exposed to the blazing sun of an Oklahoma summer. He was also concerned about transplanting, and ended up making some temporary shades with laths, shade cloth, etc. so that he could carry the plants through until cooler weather in the fall, when he could transplant them with more success. "Toni" wrote in message ... [whining mode] New neighbors next door- to the west. Their first week in they've cut down a *beautiful* 30 year old Black Olive tree that shaded my entire front garden- full of shade plants. Anthuriums, calatheas, ferns, teeny little gems that I had cherished for years in containers before putting them in the ground. That garden is only one year old- and now I am having to reorganize the whole darn thing. Plants are wilting faster than I can transplant them. And I thought our town had an ordinance against this sort of thing without a permit- guess that explains the city trucks I've seen stopping to take photos of the stump three times now. Would I be evil to hope they get fined? And I know about Black Olive maintenance issues- I have one. But had they bothered to live here a while before killing trees they'd have noticed that *we* always keep their walkways pressure cleaned- husband just can't seem to stop once he gets going. Not feeling too good about my new neighbors right now. [/whining mode] -- Toni South Florida USA Zone 10b http://ww.cearbhaill.com |
Suzie-Q wrote:
In article , "Toni" wrote: - [whining mode] New neighbors next door- to the west. - Their first week in they've cut down a *beautiful* 30 year old Black Olive - tree that shaded my entire front garden- full of shade plants. Anthuriums, - calatheas, ferns, teeny little gems that I had cherished for years in - containers before putting them in the ground. - That garden is only one year old- and now I am having to reorganize the - whole darn thing. Plants are wilting faster than I can transplant them. - - And I thought our town had an ordinance against this sort of thing without a - permit- guess that explains the city trucks I've seen stopping to take - photos of the stump three times now. - Would I be evil to hope they get fined? - - And I know about Black Olive maintenance issues- I have one. But had they - bothered to live here a while before killing trees they'd have noticed that - *we* always keep their walkways pressure cleaned- husband just can't seem to - stop once he gets going. - Not feeling too good about my new neighbors right now. [/whining mode] Some people just hate trees. When I was a kid my step-father cut down a beautiful weeping willow tree in our backyard. Later, after I moved out, he cut down the tree in the front yard, too. I hope you didn't learn about choosing partners from your mother. -- Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 5 |
"Warren" expounded:
So clear-cutting forests, strip mining, damming of rivers and all other kinds of mass environmental damage is fine with you as long as the owner of the property is the one doing it? Who said any of the above other than you? Stretching your reach a bit, aren't you? But that just means you've run out of reasonable argument. I can cut down any tree I want on my property. As I should be able to. You go ahead and live in your controlling environment, I promise I won't move next door to you. And thankfully most of New England feels as I do. -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** |
"John Bachman" wrote in message
... Your town has an ordinance that requires a homeowner to get a permit to cut down a tree on his own property? Yikes! Not a totally bad idea, for two reasons: 1) People sometimes think they can cut down huge trees without the help of a professional. But, there's a certain order in which to do these things, to assure that falling branches don't cause problems. To use the analogy of a building permit, which most people accept, why not have a permit process for removing trees? Let's face it: A significant portion of the population is just plain stupid. Sounds like a good idea to have someone knowledgable stop by, interview the budding lumberjack, and make sure they have a proper plan in place for 1000 lb chunks of falling wood. I also think it would be wise if the permit required the lumberjack to pay every single penny of a neighbor's property damage. Override their deductible, in other words. Most decent people would offer this, but some people aren't decent. 2) A library is a place where OTHER people go to read about trees and plants. So, we have people who MIGHT want to take down a tree for the wrong reasons, after doing absolutely zero research. Example: When I moved to my new house last September, the old lady across the street came over and said EXACTLY this: "Hi...my name is Helen. Let me tell you about that stupid tree of mine, before it upsets you". Her "problem" is an ancient sycamore which has the nerve to drop bark on her lawn all the time. At certain times of year, it blows across the street to my property. I don't mind. That's what sycamores do, like lobsters moulting. But, she is convinced that the tree is diseased, and that 3 tree services and a guy from the township are withholding information from her. She's probably telling other people that *I* am in error, too, by telling her that the tree is normal. So, why not have someone from the town stop by, find out her reasons for removing the tree, and if the problem is "mess" or "maintenance", see if the neighbors like the tree enough to pitch in now and then? If not, give her the permit. My crazy neighbor has a lawn guy who handles leaves & bark, but if she didn't, I'd be happy to wander over there and rake up the bark. Tree saved, problem solved. Why should this matter to you? A big shade tree is worth however many tons of air conditioning. The number doesn't matter, but it's large. Got any idea how much heat is radiated by an unshaded blacktop driveway? Which magical, easily replaceable and 100% clean source to you get electricity from? |
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:33:41 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "John Bachman" wrote in message .. . Your town has an ordinance that requires a homeowner to get a permit to cut down a tree on his own property? Yikes! Not a totally bad idea, for two reasons: 1) People sometimes think they can cut down huge trees without the help of a professional. But, there's a certain order in which to do these things, to assure that falling branches don't cause problems. To use the analogy of a building permit, which most people accept, why not have a permit process for removing trees? Let's face it: A significant portion of the population is just plain stupid. Sounds like a good idea to have someone knowledgable stop by, interview the budding lumberjack, and make sure they have a proper plan in place for 1000 lb chunks of falling wood. Requiring the taxpayers to hire a tree nanny because some people are too dumb to know how to safely cut down a tree can be extended to the myriad of things that people are dumb about. Follow that logic and we have a town hall full of tree nannies, snowblowing nannies, water garden nannies, etc. Pretty soon you need to pass a test before you can buy a Felco pruning tool. I also think it would be wise if the permit required the lumberjack to pay every single penny of a neighbor's property damage. Override their deductible, in other words. Most decent people would offer this, but some people aren't decent. I think that we have plenty of lawyers at the ready with liability suits. No need for additional permit requirements to enforce accountablity. 2) A library is a place where OTHER people go to read about trees and plants. So, we have people who MIGHT want to take down a tree for the wrong reasons, after doing absolutely zero research. Example: When I moved to my new house last September, the old lady across the street came over and said EXACTLY this: "Hi...my name is Helen. Let me tell you about that stupid tree of mine, before it upsets you". Her "problem" is an ancient sycamore which has the nerve to drop bark on her lawn all the time. At certain times of year, it blows across the street to my property. I don't mind. That's what sycamores do, like lobsters moulting. But, she is convinced that the tree is diseased, and that 3 tree services and a guy from the township are withholding information from her. She's probably telling other people that *I* am in error, too, by telling her that the tree is normal. So, why not have someone from the town stop by, find out her reasons for removing the tree, and if the problem is "mess" or "maintenance", see if the neighbors like the tree enough to pitch in now and then? If not, give her the permit. My crazy neighbor has a lawn guy who handles leaves & bark, but if she didn't, I'd be happy to wander over there and rake up the bark. Tree saved, problem solved. Yup, ignorant people do dumb things. "Momma always said, 'stupid is as stupid does'" - Forrest Gump I am not willing to pay taxes to keep the ignorant from doing what they do, I just cannot afford that much. Why should this matter to you? A big shade tree is worth however many tons of air conditioning. The number doesn't matter, but it's large. Got any idea how much heat is radiated by an unshaded blacktop driveway? Which magical, easily replaceable and 100% clean source to you get electricity from? Of course I care. But that does not necessarily translate into more laws, more bureacrats and more taxes. JMHO John |
In article ,
John Bachman wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:33:41 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "John Bachman" wrote in message .. . Your town has an ordinance that requires a homeowner to get a permit to cut down a tree on his own property? Yikes! Not a totally bad idea, for two reasons: 1) People sometimes think they can cut down huge trees without the help of a professional. But, there's a certain order in which to do these things, to assure that falling branches don't cause problems. To use the analogy of a building permit, which most people accept, why not have a permit process for removing trees? Let's face it: A significant portion of the population is just plain stupid. Sounds like a good idea to have someone knowledgable stop by, interview the budding lumberjack, and make sure they have a proper plan in place for 1000 lb chunks of falling wood. Requiring the taxpayers to hire a tree nanny because some people are too dumb to know how to safely cut down a tree can be extended to the myriad of things that people are dumb about. Follow that logic and we have a town hall full of tree nannies, snowblowing nannies, water garden nannies, etc. Pretty soon you need to pass a test before you can buy a Felco pruning tool. I also think it would be wise if the permit required the lumberjack to pay every single penny of a neighbor's property damage. Override their deductible, in other words. Most decent people would offer this, but some people aren't decent. I think that we have plenty of lawyers at the ready with liability suits. No need for additional permit requirements to enforce accountablity. 2) A library is a place where OTHER people go to read about trees and plants. So, we have people who MIGHT want to take down a tree for the wrong reasons, after doing absolutely zero research. Example: When I moved to my new house last September, the old lady across the street came over and said EXACTLY this: "Hi...my name is Helen. Let me tell you about that stupid tree of mine, before it upsets you". Her "problem" is an ancient sycamore which has the nerve to drop bark on her lawn all the time. At certain times of year, it blows across the street to my property. I don't mind. That's what sycamores do, like lobsters moulting. But, she is convinced that the tree is diseased, and that 3 tree services and a guy from the township are withholding information from her. She's probably telling other people that *I* am in error, too, by telling her that the tree is normal. So, why not have someone from the town stop by, find out her reasons for removing the tree, and if the problem is "mess" or "maintenance", see if the neighbors like the tree enough to pitch in now and then? If not, give her the permit. My crazy neighbor has a lawn guy who handles leaves & bark, but if she didn't, I'd be happy to wander over there and rake up the bark. Tree saved, problem solved. Yup, ignorant people do dumb things. "Momma always said, 'stupid is as stupid does'" - Forrest Gump I am not willing to pay taxes to keep the ignorant from doing what they do, I just cannot afford that much. Why should this matter to you? A big shade tree is worth however many tons of air conditioning. The number doesn't matter, but it's large. Got any idea how much heat is radiated by an unshaded blacktop driveway? Which magical, easily replaceable and 100% clean source to you get electricity from? Of course I care. But that does not necessarily translate into more laws, more bureacrats and more taxes. JMHO John I've cut down many tree's on my property. However I've also spent a couple a thousand on difficult trees. Seems difficult trees increase as I age ;))) Bill -- Garden Shade Zone 5 in a Japanese Jungle manner. FAIR USE NOTICE: This may contain copyrighted ((C) ) material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available for educational purposes, to advance understanding of human rights, democracy, scientific, moral, ethical, and social justice issues, etc. It is believed that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in Title 17 U.S.C. section 107 of the US Copyright Law. This material is distributed without profit. |
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "John Bachman" wrote in message ... Your town has an ordinance that requires a homeowner to get a permit to cut down a tree on his own property? Yikes! Not a totally bad idea, for two reasons: 1) People sometimes think they can cut down huge trees without the help of a professional. But, there's a certain order in which to do these things, to assure that falling branches don't cause problems. To use the analogy of a building permit, which most people accept, why not have a permit process for removing trees? Let's face it: A significant portion of the population is just plain stupid. Sounds like a good idea to have someone knowledgable stop by, interview the budding lumberjack, and make sure they have a proper plan in place for 1000 lb chunks of falling wood. I also think it would be wise if the permit required the lumberjack to pay every single penny of a neighbor's property damage. Override their deductible, in other words. Most decent people would offer this, but some people aren't decent. 2) A library is a place where OTHER people go to read about trees and plants. So, we have people who MIGHT want to take down a tree for the wrong reasons, after doing absolutely zero research. Example: When I moved to my new house last September, the old lady across the street came over and said EXACTLY this: "Hi...my name is Helen. Let me tell you about that stupid tree of mine, before it upsets you". Her "problem" is an ancient sycamore which has the nerve to drop bark on her lawn all the time. At certain times of year, it blows across the street to my property. I don't mind. That's what sycamores do, like lobsters moulting. But, she is convinced that the tree is diseased, and that 3 tree services and a guy from the township are withholding information from her. She's probably telling other people that *I* am in error, too, by telling her that the tree is normal. Here are two more reasons for some control over removal of trees. One of my neighbors is completely nature-phobic. Anything that moves or isn't produced in a factory is a threat. She had her entire SLOPING back yard clear cut and then didn't plant anything for 8 years. Periodically she would have the boyfriend/husband spray the slope with Round-up. Sure, it was her yard and I guess I didn't HAVE to look at it. The real problem came with the erosion caused by removing all the trees without a plan to remediate the erosion. Eventually a very large tree (too large for them to remove themselves) was undercut and fell, crashing into and breaking off two of my trees. Both trees were on the edge of a drainage ditch. Between the erosion from their property and the loss of the trees in my yard, the ditch evolved from a shallow canal to an 9 foot deep crevasse. Now other trees are being undercut and are about to fall, causing a downward spiral of events that threaten our property and theirs. The other reason for regulating the removal of trees is that some people feel that cutting a tree down and leaving a big stump is fine. A number of our neighbors have cut trees down in their front yards, leaving large stumps sticking two to three feet out of the ground. It looks like hell. If you are going to remove a tree, don't start a job you can't finish. |
Vox Humana wrote:
Here are two more reasons for some control over removal of trees. One of my neighbors is completely nature-phobic. Anything that moves or isn't produced in a factory is a threat. She had her entire SLOPING back yard clear cut and then didn't plant anything for 8 years. Periodically she would have the boyfriend/husband spray the slope with Round-up. Sure, it was her yard and I guess I didn't HAVE to look at it. The real problem came with the erosion caused by removing all the trees without a plan to remediate the erosion. Eventually a very large tree (too large for them to remove themselves) was undercut and fell, crashing into and breaking off two of my trees. Both trees were on the edge of a drainage ditch. Between the erosion from their property and the loss of the trees in my yard, the ditch evolved from a shallow canal to an 9 foot deep crevasse. Now other trees are being undercut and are about to fall, causing a downward spiral of events that threaten our property and theirs. Better watch out. The people who don't want to defend their position that *they* should be allowed to cut down *their* trees whenever they want will accuse you of taking it to the extreme with this real life story that's repeated all too often in areas where people are allowed to do whatever they want to trees on land they own. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. What's on TV? See the new fall network schedules online: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/tele.../fall2005.html |
"John Bachman" wrote in message ... On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:33:41 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "John Bachman" wrote in message . .. Your town has an ordinance that requires a homeowner to get a permit to cut down a tree on his own property? Yikes! Not a totally bad idea, for two reasons: 1) People sometimes think they can cut down huge trees without the help of a professional. But, there's a certain order in which to do these things, to assure that falling branches don't cause problems. To use the analogy of a building permit, which most people accept, why not have a permit process for removing trees? Let's face it: A significant portion of the population is just plain stupid. Sounds like a good idea to have someone knowledgable stop by, interview the budding lumberjack, and make sure they have a proper plan in place for 1000 lb chunks of falling wood. Requiring the taxpayers to hire a tree nanny because some people are too dumb to know how to safely cut down a tree can be extended to the myriad of things that people are dumb about. Follow that logic and we have a town hall full of tree nannies, snowblowing nannies, water garden nannies, etc. Pretty soon you need to pass a test before you can buy a Felco pruning tool. Got a problem with building permits, too? I also think it would be wise if the permit required the lumberjack to pay every single penny of a neighbor's property damage. Override their deductible, in other words. Most decent people would offer this, but some people aren't decent. I think that we have plenty of lawyers at the ready with liability suits. No need for additional permit requirements to enforce accountablity. That's silly. Nobody should even have to pick up the phone and call a lawyer to retrieve their $250 or $500 deductible. There's a simpler way, and it already exists. Make the permit a legal contract. The local judge can introduce you to jail food if you mouth off and refuse to pay. This sort of thing happens with a fair amount of regularity, right in the same courtroom as traffic tickets. 2) A library is a place where OTHER people go to read about trees and plants. So, we have people who MIGHT want to take down a tree for the wrong reasons, after doing absolutely zero research. Example: When I moved to my new house last September, the old lady across the street came over and said EXACTLY this: "Hi...my name is Helen. Let me tell you about that stupid tree of mine, before it upsets you". Her "problem" is an ancient sycamore which has the nerve to drop bark on her lawn all the time. At certain times of year, it blows across the street to my property. I don't mind. That's what sycamores do, like lobsters moulting. But, she is convinced that the tree is diseased, and that 3 tree services and a guy from the township are withholding information from her. She's probably telling other people that *I* am in error, too, by telling her that the tree is normal. So, why not have someone from the town stop by, find out her reasons for removing the tree, and if the problem is "mess" or "maintenance", see if the neighbors like the tree enough to pitch in now and then? If not, give her the permit. My crazy neighbor has a lawn guy who handles leaves & bark, but if she didn't, I'd be happy to wander over there and rake up the bark. Tree saved, problem solved. Yup, ignorant people do dumb things. "Momma always said, 'stupid is as stupid does'" - Forrest Gump I am not willing to pay taxes to keep the ignorant from doing what they do, I just cannot afford that much. Your local building inspectors probably sit on their tails for a few hours a week. Let them do it. You're already paying them. Why should this matter to you? A big shade tree is worth however many tons of air conditioning. The number doesn't matter, but it's large. Got any idea how much heat is radiated by an unshaded blacktop driveway? Which magical, easily replaceable and 100% clean source to you get electricity from? Of course I care. But that does not necessarily translate into more laws, more bureacrats and more taxes. JMHO John |
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:08:11 -0400, William Wagner
wrote: In article , John Bachman wrote: snipped my previous postings I've cut down many tree's on my property. However I've also spent a couple a thousand on difficult trees. Seems difficult trees increase as I age ;))) Bill Likewise, Bill. I am about to contract to have a tree removed for the first time in my life. It is a 100 foot white pine surrounded by wires and obstacles. It will cost me more than a grand. All because I want to give the renegade sycamore that sprouted nearby some room to do it's thing. John |
John Bachman wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:33:41 GMT, "Doug Kanter" [...] Yup, ignorant people do dumb things. "Momma always said, 'stupid is as stupid does'" - Forrest Gump I am not willing to pay taxes to keep the ignorant from doing what they do, I just cannot afford that much. What you really can't afford is the effects of stupidity on you. Why should this matter to you? A big shade tree is worth however many tons of air conditioning. The number doesn't matter, but it's large. Got any idea how much heat is radiated by an unshaded blacktop driveway? Which magical, easily replaceable and 100% clean source to you get electricity from? Of course I care. But that does not necessarily translate into more laws, more bureacrats and more taxes. JMHO John Yeah, yeah, taxes is bad, but if some private outfit charges you "fees" for the same service, it's good. I've _never_ understood that logic. The only thing I care about is how much I get for my money. Private bureaucracies (a.k.a "corporations") are at least as inefficient as public ones, and there's the added disdavantage that we don't get a chance to throw the rascals out every four years. And private bureaucracies want me to pay extra ("profits") just so some bozos can get some unearned income ("dividends") - now that's a real good use of my cash! |
John Bachman wrote:
[...] I am about to contract to have a tree removed for the first time in my life. It is a 100 foot white pine surrounded by Ouch! Who gets the wood? If done right, there will be sawlogs available form that tree. All because I want to give the renegade sycamore that sprouted nearby some room to do it's thing. John Now that's balancing one tree's need against another tree's desire... :-) |
Vox Humana wrote:
[...] Here are two more reasons for some control over removal of trees. One of my neighbors is completely nature-phobic. Anything that moves or isn't produced in a factory is a threat. She had her entire SLOPING back yard clear cut and then didn't plant anything for 8 years. Periodically she would have the boyfriend/husband spray the slope with Round-up. Sure, it was her yard and I guess I didn't HAVE to look at it. The real problem came with the erosion caused by removing all the trees without a plan to remediate the erosion. Eventually a very large tree (too large for them to remove themselves) was undercut and fell, crashing into and breaking off two of my trees. Both trees were on the edge of a drainage ditch. Between the erosion from their property and the loss of the trees in my yard, the ditch evolved from a shallow canal to an 9 foot deep crevasse. Now other trees are being undercut and are about to fall, causing a downward spiral of events that threaten our property and theirs. [...] I think you and/or the municpality have grounds for a lawsuit there - the grounds that have been washed away by the rain... I doubt their insurance will cover the damage they've caused; so go after them. Bozos like that should not be allowed to thrive. |
presley wrote:
Well, it's not always a neighbor. The backyard gardener show on PBS had a segment recently in a which a straight-line windstorm had upended an enormous 100 year old oak in the middle of summer. He had an entire shade garden under the tree, which was now exposed to the blazing sun of an Oklahoma summer. He was also concerned about transplanting, and ended up making some temporary shades with laths, shade cloth, etc. so that he could carry the plants through until cooler weather in the fall, when he could transplant them with more success. Do you mean "Gardening by the Yard"? It is on HGTV. -- Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 5 "Toni" wrote in message ... [whining mode] New neighbors next door- to the west. Their first week in they've cut down a *beautiful* 30 year old Black Olive tree that shaded my entire front garden- full of shade plants. Anthuriums, calatheas, ferns, teeny little gems that I had cherished for years in containers before putting them in the ground. That garden is only one year old- and now I am having to reorganize the whole darn thing. Plants are wilting faster than I can transplant them. And I thought our town had an ordinance against this sort of thing without a permit- guess that explains the city trucks I've seen stopping to take photos of the stump three times now. Would I be evil to hope they get fined? And I know about Black Olive maintenance issues- I have one. But had they bothered to live here a while before killing trees they'd have noticed that *we* always keep their walkways pressure cleaned- husband just can't seem to stop once he gets going. Not feeling too good about my new neighbors right now. [/whining mode] -- Toni South Florida USA Zone 10b http://ww.cearbhaill.com |
|
"lgb" wrote in message ... In article , says... So freedom is the right to adversely affect the lives of others just because you happen to be standing on property you own? BS! Almost everything we do has a beneficial affect on some and an adverse affect on others. We have zoning laws to keep a business from going up in a residential neighborhood. We have noise and junk abatement laws. And that's about as much interference with property rights as there should be. If I want to chop down all my trees and plant pink flamingos, that's my business. Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car on his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason, there was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc? |
"Doug Kanter" expounded:
Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car on his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason, there was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc? When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating, drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my business. -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** |
"Ann" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" expounded: Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car on his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason, there was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc? When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating, drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my business. -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** You are so right! My neighbor across the back fence has at least half a dozen rusted out old cars in his back yard. They were there when I move in and the neighbor nor his junk cars has caused me any problems in the last three years. The man I bought this property from said he had checked with the local government and as long as the vehicles are hidden by a front fence, they can do nothing about it. Except for the junk cars, he keeps his home and yard in nice condition. As I mentioned in a previous post, many things could be much worst. |
In article ,
"Hound Dog" wrote: "Ann" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" expounded: Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car on his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason, there was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc? When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating, drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my business. -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** You are so right! My neighbor across the back fence has at least half a dozen rusted out old cars in his back yard. They were there when I move in and the neighbor nor his junk cars has caused me any problems in the last three years. The man I bought this property from said he had checked with the local government and as long as the vehicles are hidden by a front fence, they can do nothing about it. Except for the junk cars, he keeps his home and yard in nice condition. As I mentioned in a previous post, many things could be much worst. Another way of looking at is the Garden concept of borrowed scenery. Some time you can include mount Fuji in your garden view. I'd hazard a guess not many of us can. So we plant according. No rusting junk about here just many bored barking dogs. Bill -- Garden Shade Zone 5 in a Japanese Jungle manner. FAIR USE NOTICE: This may contain copyrighted (© ) material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available for educational purposes, to advance understanding of human rights, democracy, scientific, moral, ethical, and social justice issues, etc. It is believed that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in Title 17 U.S.C. section 107 of the US Copyright Law. This material is distributed without profit. |
"Ann" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" expounded: Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car on his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason, there was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc? When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating, drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my business. How would you have felt if you needed to sell your house while the neighbors had a virtual junkyard? I don't mean WANT to sell, but NEED to sell. What if, due to the trashy neighbors, you found that there were few people interested in looking let alone making an offer? The offers you do get are low-balls. That is a situation where it does become your business because the junk reduces your property value or makes your house impossible to sell. |
"Vox Humana" expounded:
How would you have felt if you needed to sell your house while the neighbors had a virtual junkyard? I don't mean WANT to sell, but NEED to sell. What if, due to the trashy neighbors, you found that there were few people interested in looking let alone making an offer? Well, obviously there are people out there who don't care - like me - who will buy a house because they like the house. I'd appreciate those kind of neighbors, that shows they'll keep their noses in their own business and not mind mine. I don't see it as a huge hinderance. The offers you do get are low-balls. That is a situation where it does become your business because the junk reduces your property value or makes your house impossible to sell. You are completely ignoring what I initially said - I did buy a house with a messy yard next door. The people who were selling this house NEEDED to sell it, and I bought it. And there were other offers on the very same house. So, I guess that shoots a few holes into your argument. If you're so worried about other people's homes, then you belong in a nice managed neighborhood. Please stay there, and don't move next door to me, trying to tell me how to live my life. I promise I won't move next door to you and try to run yours. -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** |
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:24:41 -0400, Wolf Kirchmeir
wrote: John Bachman wrote: [...] I am about to contract to have a tree removed for the first time in my life. It is a 100 foot white pine surrounded by Ouch! Who gets the wood? If done right, there will be sawlogs available form that tree. Oh, yeah. There will be many board that end up framing someone's house. That is part of the deal with cutter downer who happens to be a neighbor in that business. He gets to sell the logs to the sawmill. All because I want to give the renegade sycamore that sprouted nearby some room to do it's thing. John Now that's balancing one tree's need against another tree's desire... :-) Yes again. I figure that some bird pooped out the sycamore seed and that baby is already 15 feet tall after only 5 or 6 years. I won't miss the pine pollen every June either. John |
"Ann" wrote in message ... "Vox Humana" expounded: How would you have felt if you needed to sell your house while the neighbors had a virtual junkyard? I don't mean WANT to sell, but NEED to sell. What if, due to the trashy neighbors, you found that there were few people interested in looking let alone making an offer? Well, obviously there are people out there who don't care - like me - who will buy a house because they like the house. I'd appreciate those kind of neighbors, that shows they'll keep their noses in their own business and not mind mine. I don't see it as a huge hinderance. The offers you do get are low-balls. That is a situation where it does become your business because the junk reduces your property value or makes your house impossible to sell. You are completely ignoring what I initially said - I did buy a house with a messy yard next door. The people who were selling this house NEEDED to sell it, and I bought it. And there were other offers on the very same house. So, I guess that shoots a few holes into your argument. If you're so worried about other people's homes, then you belong in a nice managed neighborhood. Please stay there, and don't move next door to me, trying to tell me how to live my life. I promise I won't move next door to you and try to run yours. I'm just pointing out that in a free market, when you reduce demand you also reduce the value. Reducing demand doesn't mean that there is no demand although it could, and the timing of the sale could be critical. Also, just because you can find an exception to a rule, it doesn't dismiss the concept. Every neighbor that sells, no matter how slovenly, has magically decided to clean-up their place. The door gets painted. The trim gets painted. Flowers are planted. The windows are washed. The yard is mowed and trimmed. Funny how people who don't give a damn for 5 years suddenly "get it" when they decide to sell. Do you suppose it is because it increases the value of their house or is it due to some unexplained compulsion to clean and paint? As for moving next to you, it would be the last thing I would ever consider. I'm not worried about the homes of others. I just don't want inconsiderate slobs, people operating meth labs, or acid-rock band rehearsals in my neighborhood. I would be perfectly content if these things occurred in your neighborhood because even slobs and drug deals have to live somewhere. I suspect that you would be a hideous neighbor, bitching about everything bothered you. I would laugh if a pig farm moved next to you. Remember, you don't pay the mortgage or taxes so the stench would be none of your business. One man's stench is another's junk yard. Enjoy. |
"Vox Humana" wrote in message . .. "Ann" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" expounded: Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car on his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason, there was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc? When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating, drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my business. How would you have felt if you needed to sell your house while the neighbors had a virtual junkyard? I don't mean WANT to sell, but NEED to sell. What if, due to the trashy neighbors, you found that there were few people interested in looking let alone making an offer? The offers you do get are low-balls. That is a situation where it does become your business because the junk reduces your property value or makes your house impossible to sell. I feel your pain and I'd not be too thrilled either, but I agree that at the end of the day, they can do whatever the hell they want. It's their property and their mortgage. Until I start paying it, it's none of my business. |
"Vox Humana" expounded:
As for moving next to you, it would be the last thing I would ever consider. I'm not worried about the homes of others. I just don't want inconsiderate slobs, people operating meth labs, or acid-rock band rehearsals in my neighborhood. I would be perfectly content if these things occurred in your neighborhood because even slobs and drug deals have to live somewhere. I suspect that you would be a hideous neighbor, bitching about everything bothered you. I would laugh if a pig farm moved next to you. Remember, you don't pay the mortgage or taxes so the stench would be none of your business. One man's stench is another's junk yard. Enjoy. Meth labs. Inconsiderate slobs. Nice. You are another one who resorts to insults when you're losing your argument. I hope you learn to be more tolerant of those who have different views than you do. But I'm pretty sure you're incapable of it. -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** |
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car on his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason, there was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc? Hypotheticals are so delicious....since one can easily craft one on demand to prove or disprove any particular point pro or con..... Case in point would said car still bother you quite as much if the neighbor after your 5 years of suffering silently thanked you profusely for being such a mellow non complaining neighbor and handed you a million dollars? Obviously some people wish to have absolute control over each and everything of everybody else and I suppose even want someone controlling them...whereas others think life is meant to be a little messy... sometimes good and occasionally not to our liking but with no desire for rules and laws attempting to regiment a "perfect life".... Rod |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:02 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter