Watering with soft water
 

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:10:13 -0800, "SteveB" meagain@rockvilleUSA
wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the
soft water system. Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

Thanks.

Steve

For occasional watering it is fine. For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

Watering with soft water
 

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the
soft water system. Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

Thanks.

Steve

Watering with soft water
 

"SteveB" wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are
hooked to the soft water system. �

I seriously doubt your outdoor hose bibs are connected to your
softened water, easy enough to check. But since water softeners
operate by on-demand it would use too much salt and place too much
stress on the unit were it used for for heavy watering as is usually
the case with outdoor water use. It's possible your hose bib is
connected to softened water but would be exceedingly rare. My house
has three hose bibs, none are connected to my softened water but the
one by the garage is tempered water, it is part hot water so salt can
be washed off vehicles during winter without it freezing.

Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?

There's no disadvantage but neither is there any advantage.

Watering with soft water
 

In article ,
Charles wrote:

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:10:13 -0800, "SteveB" meagain@rockvilleUSA
wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the
soft water system. Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

Thanks.

Steve

For occasional watering it is fine. For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

Like Charles said, you would basically be putting salt on your plants.
You don't want to drink it either, again it is salt (or the cation half
of the salt) and you risk raising your blood pressure. It is good for
washing things because the Ca++ in the water (hard water) is out and you
don't precipitate fatty acids or get calcium stearate (better known as
bathtub ring) which interfere with making the dirtiness soluble in water.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Watering with soft water
 

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 17:42:47 -0800, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
Charles wrote:

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:10:13 -0800, "SteveB" meagain@rockvilleUSA
wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the
soft water system. Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

Thanks.

Steve

For occasional watering it is fine. For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

Like Charles said, you would basically be putting salt on your plants.
You don't want to drink it either, again it is salt (or the cation half
of the salt) and you risk raising your blood pressure. It is good for
washing things because the Ca++ in the water (hard water) is out and you
don't precipitate fatty acids or get calcium stearate (better known as
bathtub ring) which interfere with making the dirtiness soluble in water.


I was wondering about if the softener was regenerated with potassium
chloride instead of sodium, that might be an overdose of potassium.
Good if one is raising bananas, I guess.

Watering with soft water
 

Charles wrote:
"SteveB" wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the
soft water system. �Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

For occasional watering it is fine. �For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. �Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

That's not true. There is no more salt contained in softened water
than there is in the bottled water that people drink, usually less.
If softened water contained salt then it wouldn't be softened water,
now would it. The salt used by water softeners leaves the sytem as
grey water (along with the other minerals the system removes), that
never enters the domestic water. If the typical water softener uses a
pound of salt a day it's a lot, usually will use closer to 1/2 pound/
day. The trick is to find a way for disposing of the grey water
without it building up in one spot. My grey water (water from my
water softener, dehumidifier, and RO filter) is piped by gravity to a
creek, the same creek that collects run off from many thousands of
acres of lands as the creek meanders over many miles, which includes
the many tons of salt spread on the roads in winter by the highway
department.. my couple handfulls of salt a day is so negligible that
it doesn't count. And salt is not toxic it's a necessity of life, a
salt lick for live stock places more salt into the ground than any
water softener. Softened water contains very little salt, certainly
far less than if the water were not softened.

Watering with soft water
 

On Mar 1, 8:42�pm, Billy wrote:
In article ,





�Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:10:13 -0800, "SteveB" meagain@rockvilleUSA
wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the
soft water system. �Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

Thanks.

Steve

For occasional watering it is fine. �For steady use I'd avoid it..
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. �Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

Like Charles said, you would basically be putting salt on your plants.
You don't want to drink it either, again it is salt (or the cation half
of the salt) and you risk raising your blood pressure. It is good for
washing things because the Ca++ in the water (hard water) is out and you
don't precipitate fatty acids or get calcium stearate (better known as
bathtub ring) which interfere with making the dirtiness soluble in water.


What tripe. There is virtually no salt in softened water... whatever
salt was contained in the water before it was softened would be far,
far less.

Watering with soft water
 

on 3/1/2008 8:29 PM Sheldon said the following:
"SteveB" wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are
hooked to the soft water system. �


I seriously doubt your outdoor hose bibs are connected to your
softened water, easy enough to check.

My house was built without a water softener. When Culligan put in a
water softener a couple of years later, it was installed right after,
and next to the expansion tank in the main line from the well, so all
water was softened. When I replaced the water softener years later with
a Kenmore digital unit, I tapped off the main water line before the
softener and ran a direct line to the outdoor spigots and to a filtered
small drinking faucet on the kitchen sink.

But since water softeners
operate by on-demand it would use too much salt and place too much
stress on the unit were it used for for heavy watering as is usually
the case with outdoor water use. It's possible your hose bib is
connected to softened water but would be exceedingly rare. My house
has three hose bibs, none are connected to my softened water but the
one by the garage is tempered water, it is part hot water so salt can
be washed off vehicles during winter without it freezing.


Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?


There's no disadvantage but neither is there any advantage.





--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Watering with soft water
 

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:12:11 -0800 (PST), Sheldon
wrote:

Charles wrote:
"SteveB" wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the
soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

That's not true. There is no more salt contained in softened water
than there is in the bottled water that people drink, usually less.
If softened water contained salt then it wouldn't be softened water,
now would it. The salt used by water softeners leaves the sytem as
grey water (along with the other minerals the system removes), that
never enters the domestic water. If the typical water softener uses a
pound of salt a day it's a lot, usually will use closer to 1/2 pound/
day. The trick is to find a way for disposing of the grey water
without it building up in one spot. My grey water (water from my
water softener, dehumidifier, and RO filter) is piped by gravity to a
creek, the same creek that collects run off from many thousands of
acres of lands as the creek meanders over many miles, which includes
the many tons of salt spread on the roads in winter by the highway
department.. my couple handfulls of salt a day is so negligible that
it doesn't count. And salt is not toxic it's a necessity of life, a
salt lick for live stock places more salt into the ground than any
water softener. Softened water contains very little salt, certainly
far less than if the water were not softened.



Wrong, unless you are using a dual ion exchange system. The common
household water softener just exchanges calcium and magnesium ions for
sodium. The carbonate, sulfate, or whatever else is in the water
stays where it is.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-a...question99.htm

Watering with soft water
 

In article
,
Sheldon wrote:

On Mar 1, 8:42?pm, Billy wrote:
In article ,





?Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:10:13 -0800, "SteveB" meagain@rockvilleUSA
wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to
the
soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft
water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area,
but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

Thanks.

Steve

For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

Like Charles said, you would basically be putting salt on your plants.
You don't want to drink it either, again it is salt (or the cation half
of the salt) and you risk raising your blood pressure. It is good for
washing things because the Ca++ in the water (hard water) is out and you
don't precipitate fatty acids or get calcium stearate (better known as
bathtub ring) which interfere with making the dirtiness soluble in water.


What tripe. There is virtually no salt in softened water... whatever
salt was contained in the water before it was softened would be far,
far less.

Shelly, I wouldn't recommend increasing one's sodium intake to most
people but for you I will make an exception. Drink soft water heartily
and often, please.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Watering with soft water
 

On Mar 1, 9:25�pm, willshak wrote:

My house was built without a water softener. When Culligan put in a
water softener a couple of years later, it was installed right after,
and next to the expansion tank in the main line from the well, so all
water was softened. When I replaced the water softener years later with
a Kenmore digital unit, I tapped off the main water line before the
softener and ran a direct line to the outdoor spigots and to a filtered
small drinking faucet on the kitchen sink.

Obviously the Culligan guy didn't know what he was doing, more likely
lazy and didn't care about you. It's just plain silly to have outside
hose bibs connected to a softened water system.... if you had an
automatic irrigation system for your lawn it would be idiotic to have
it connected to softened water... not to say there aren't those with
more dollars than brain cells.

The only reason for having softened water at a hose bib is if one is
car collecting fanatic and can't tolerate the thought of spotting on
their Maserati ... although today's modern car wash compounds are
designed to obviate spotting the same as those dishwashing additives.

Watering with soft water
 

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:21:23 -0800 (PST), Sheldon
wrote:

On Mar 1, 8:42?pm, Billy wrote:
In article ,





?Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:10:13 -0800, "SteveB" meagain@rockvilleUSA
wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the
soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

Thanks.

Steve

For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

Like Charles said, you would basically be putting salt on your plants.
You don't want to drink it either, again it is salt (or the cation half
of the salt) and you risk raising your blood pressure. It is good for
washing things because the Ca++ in the water (hard water) is out and you
don't precipitate fatty acids or get calcium stearate (better known as
bathtub ring) which interfere with making the dirtiness soluble in water.


What tripe. There is virtually no salt in softened water... whatever
salt was contained in the water before it was softened would be far,
far less.

From:
http://howthingswork.virginia.edu/se...es&searcha=yes

Finally, the best sources of water are those that simply don't have
many dissolved chemicals; or at least none that cause trouble for your
body. That means that your water shouldn't have much lead or arsenic
dissolved in it or any of a number of noxious organic chemicals. The
purest waters are distilled water, rain water (assuming minimal air
pollution), and water that has been chemically filtered (via ion
exchange, reverse osmosis, and/or activated carbon). Spring and well
waters tend to contain substantial amounts of dissolved calcium and
magnesium salts, which make the water less pure but probably don't
affect its healthfulness. One special case to look out for is water
that was very hard but that has been passed through a water softener.
The dissolved minerals that made the water hard will have been
replaced by sodium compounds during the softening process and
excessive sodium consumption may be a problem for some people.

Watering with soft water
 

In article
,
Sheldon wrote:

On Mar 1, 9:25?pm, willshak wrote:

My house was built without a water softener. When Culligan put in a
water softener a couple of years later, it was installed right after,
and next to the expansion tank in the main line from the well, so all
water was softened. When I replaced the water softener years later with
a Kenmore digital unit, I tapped off the main water line before the
softener and ran a direct line to the outdoor spigots and to a filtered
small drinking faucet on the kitchen sink.

Obviously the Culligan guy didn't know what he was doing, more likely
lazy and didn't care about you. It's just plain silly to have outside
hose bibs connected to a softened water system.... if you had an
automatic irrigation system for your lawn it would be idiotic to have
it connected to softened water... not to say there aren't those with
more dollars than brain cells.

The only reason for having softened water at a hose bib is if one is
car collecting fanatic and can't tolerate the thought of spotting on
their Maserati ... although today's modern car wash compounds are
designed to obviate spotting the same as those dishwashing additives.

Shelly, did the flip just flop?
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Watering with soft water
 

what he said.... absolutely. not to mention is very expensive to use soft water.

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:14:04 GMT, Charles wrote:
For occasional watering it is fine. For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

Watering with soft water
 

Sheldon wrote:

..

That's not true. There is no more salt contained in softened water
than there is in the bottled water that people drink, usually less.
If softened water contained salt then it wouldn't be softened water,
now would it. The salt used by water softeners leaves the sytem as
grey water (along with the other minerals the system removes), that
never enters the domestic water.

Now you've done it!! Why did you have to post FACTS??
;-)
Tom J

Watering with soft water
 

On Mar 1, 9:52�pm, Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:21:23 -0800 (PST), Sheldon
wrote:





On Mar 1, 8:42?pm, Billy wrote:
In article ,

?Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:10:13 -0800, "SteveB" meagain@rockvilleUSA
wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the
soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

Thanks.

Steve

For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

Like Charles said, you would basically be putting salt on your plants.
You don't want to drink it either, again it is salt (or the cation half
of the salt) and you risk raising your blood pressure. It is good for
washing things because the Ca++ in the water (hard water) is out and you
don't precipitate fatty acids or get calcium stearate (better known as
bathtub ring) which interfere with making the dirtiness soluble in water.

Watering with soft water
 

wrote:

not to mention is very expensive to use soft water. �

What do you call "very expensive"?

A 40 pound bag of salt will typically produce about 6,000 gallons of
softened water... a 40 pound bag of salt costs about $4.50.

Actually that same $4.50 worth of salt can save the average household
about $45 worth of cleaning products each month... not to mention the
time and effort of cleaning, and will save more than 6,000 gallons of
water each month (mostly hot water) because softened water is just
that much more efficient at cleaning. Softened water is kind to your
plumbing too, will save untold thousands in plumbing bills over the
life of the water softener (about 20 years).

If one lives in a hard water locale *not* having a water softener is
VERY expensive.

Watering with soft water
 

On Mar 1, 9:41�pm, Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:12:11 -0800 (PST), Sheldon
wrote:





Charles wrote:
"SteveB" wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the
soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

That's not true. �There is no more salt contained in softened water
than there is in the bottled water that people drink, usually less.
If softened water contained salt then it wouldn't be softened water,
now would it. �The salt used by water softeners leaves the sytem as
grey water (along with the other minerals the system removes), that
never enters the domestic water. �If the typical water softener uses a
pound of salt a day it's a lot, usually will use closer to 1/2 pound/
day. �The trick is to find a way for disposing of the grey water
without it building up in one spot. �My grey water (water from my
water softener, dehumidifier, and RO filter) is piped by gravity to a
creek, the same creek that collects run off from many thousands of
acres of lands as the creek meanders over many miles, which includes
the many tons of salt spread on the roads in winter by the highway
department.. my couple handfulls of salt a day is so negligible that
it doesn't count. �And salt is not toxic it's a necessity of life, a
salt lick for live stock places more salt into the ground than any
water softener. �Softened water contains very little salt, certainly
far less than if the water were not softened.

Wrong, unless you are using a dual ion exchange system. �The common
household water softener just exchanges calcium and magnesium ions for
sodium. �The carbonate, sulfate, or whatever else is in the water
stays where it is.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-a...aundry/questio...

Your reading comprehension skills are near the 3rd grade elementary
school level, and I'm being quite generous.

[per your web site]
"Regeneration involves soaking the beads or zeolite in a stream of
sodium ions. Salt is sodium chloride, so the water softener mixes up a
very strong brine solution and flushes it through the zeolite or beads
(this is why you load up a water softener with salt). The strong brine
displaces all of the calcium and magnesium that has built up in the
zeolite or beads and replaces it again with sodium. _The remaining
brine plus all of the calcium and magnesium is flushed out through a
drain pipe. "_

DOH!

Watering with soft water
 

In article
,
Sheldon wrote:

On Mar 1, 9:41?pm, Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:12:11 -0800 (PST), Sheldon
wrote:





Charles wrote:
"SteveB" wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to
the
soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft
water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area,
but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

That's not true. ?There is no more salt contained in softened water
than there is in the bottled water that people drink, usually less.
If softened water contained salt then it wouldn't be softened water,
now would it. ?The salt used by water softeners leaves the sytem as
grey water (along with the other minerals the system removes), that
never enters the domestic water. ?If the typical water softener uses a
pound of salt a day it's a lot, usually will use closer to 1/2 pound/
day. ?The trick is to find a way for disposing of the grey water
without it building up in one spot. ?My grey water (water from my
water softener, dehumidifier, and RO filter) is piped by gravity to a
creek, the same creek that collects run off from many thousands of
acres of lands as the creek meanders over many miles, which includes
the many tons of salt spread on the roads in winter by the highway
department.. my couple handfulls of salt a day is so negligible that
it doesn't count. ?And salt is not toxic it's a necessity of life, a
salt lick for live stock places more salt into the ground than any
water softener. ?Softened water contains very little salt, certainly
far less than if the water were not softened.

Wrong, unless you are using a dual ion exchange system. ?The common
household water softener just exchanges calcium and magnesium ions for
sodium. ?The carbonate, sulfate, or whatever else is in the water
stays where it is.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-a...aundry/questio...

Your reading comprehension skills are near the 3rd grade elementary
school level, and I'm being quite generous.

[per your web site]
"Regeneration involves soaking the beads or zeolite in a stream of
sodium ions. Salt is sodium chloride, so the water softener mixes up a
very strong brine solution and flushes it through the zeolite or beads
(this is why you load up a water softener with salt). The strong brine
displaces all of the calcium and magnesium that has built up in the
zeolite or beads and replaces it again with sodium. _The remaining
brine plus all of the calcium and magnesium is flushed out through a
drain pipe. "_

DOH!

Shelly, my dance instructor once told me that if I was going to fall, I
should do it gracefully. You might learn from that and not be so snotty
when you are so horribly wrong. The preceding paragraph reads,"The idea
behind a water softener is simple. The calcium and magnesium ions in the
water are replaced with sodium ions. Since sodium does not precipitate
out in pipes or react badly with soap, both of the problems of hard
water are eliminated. To do the ion replacement, the water in the house
runs through a bed of small plastic beads or through a chemical matrix
called zeolite. The beads or zeolite are covered with sodium ions. As
the water flows past the sodium ions, they swap places with the calcium
and magnesium ions. Eventually, the beads or zeolite contain nothing but
calcium and magnesium and no sodium, and at this point they stop
softening the water. It is then time to regenerate the beads or zeolite."

Hellooooo? Did you get that Shelly? The calcium and magnesium ions in
the water are **REPLACED** with sodium ions. Duh. Now go have a nice big
glass of soft water:-)
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Watering with soft water
 

In article
,
Sheldon wrote:

wrote:

not to mention is very expensive to use soft water. ?

What do you call "very expensive"?

A 40 pound bag of salt will typically produce about 6,000 gallons of
softened water... a 40 pound bag of salt costs about $4.50.

Actually that same $4.50 worth of salt can save the average household
about $45 worth of cleaning products each month... not to mention the
time and effort of cleaning, and will save more than 6,000 gallons of
water each month (mostly hot water) because softened water is just
that much more efficient at cleaning. Softened water is kind to your
plumbing too, will save untold thousands in plumbing bills over the
life of the water softener (about 20 years).

If one lives in a hard water locale *not* having a water softener is
VERY expensive.

This was about gardening Shelly, not plumbing. Toxification of the
landscape and all that. St. Molly used to say, when you find yourself in
a hole, stop digging.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Watering with soft water
 

In article
,
Sheldon wrote:

On Mar 1, 9:52?pm, Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:21:23 -0800 (PST), Sheldon
wrote:





On Mar 1, 8:42?pm, Billy wrote:
In article ,

?Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:10:13 -0800, "SteveB" meagain@rockvilleUSA
wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to
the
soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft
water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural
area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

Thanks.

Steve

For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium.
Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over time it will
build up, change the soil properties.

Like Charles said, you would basically be putting salt on your plants.
You don't want to drink it either, again it is salt (or the cation half
of the salt) and you risk raising your blood pressure. It is good for
washing things because the Ca++ in the water (hard water) is out and you
don't precipitate fatty acids or get calcium stearate (better known as
bathtub ring) which interfere with making the dirtiness soluble in
water.

What tripe. ?There is virtually no salt in softened water... whatever
salt was contained in the water before it was softened would be far,
far less.

From:http://howthingswork.virginia.edu/se...ter+softener&G..
.

Sodium ions is not salt. The salt used in water softeners does NOT
end up in the domestic water... the salt and oher minerals flush out
as grey water.

You have to give Shellly credit. He may be stoopid but but he is
persistent. One more time from the top:

The idea behind a water softener is simple. The calcium and magnesium
ions in the water are ""REPLACED** with sodium ions. Since sodium does
not precipitate out in pipes or react badly with soap, both of the
problems of hard water are eliminated. To do the ion replacement, the
water in the house runs through a bed of small plastic beads or through
a chemical matrix called zeolite. The beads or zeolite are covered with
sodium ions. As the water flows past the sodium ions, they swap places
with the calcium and magnesium ions. Eventually, the beads or zeolite
contain nothing but calcium and magnesium and no sodium, and at this
point they stop softening the water. It is then time to regenerate the
beads or zeolite.

How's that hole coming Shelly? About time to hydrate again, huh?
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Watering with soft water
 

"SteveB" meagain@rockvilleUSA wrote in message
...
I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the
soft water system. Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water?
They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but
I need to get around and water some of the trees before that.

Thanks.

Steve


Similar question here. How about hydrogen sulfide gas from well water. Its
filtered out before entering home plumbing. Hose bibs are connected to the
same home plumbing.

Normally, I use the 2 standalone faucets outside for irrigation. These have
no filtration whatsoever. Any special notes on soaker hoses for this
situation?

--
Dave

Watering with soft water
 

Sheldon wrote:
On Mar 1, 9:41�pm, Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:12:11 -0800 (PST), Sheldon

wrote:





Charles wrote:
"SteveB" wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are
hooked to the soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to
watering with soft water? They're about to turn on the
irrigation
water system in our rural area, but I need to get around and
water some of the trees before that.

For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with
sodium. Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over
time it will build up, change the soil properties.

That's not true. �There is no more salt contained in softened
water
than there is in the bottled water that people drink, usually
less.
If softened water contained salt then it wouldn't be softened
water,
now would it. �The salt used by water softeners leaves the sytem
as
grey water (along with the other minerals the system removes),
that
never enters the domestic water. �If the typical water softener
uses a pound of salt a day it's a lot, usually will use closer to
1/2 pound/ day. �The trick is to find a way for disposing of the
grey water without it building up in one spot. �My grey water
(water from my water softener, dehumidifier, and RO filter) is
piped by gravity to a creek, the same creek that collects run off
from many thousands of acres of lands as the creek meanders over
many miles, which includes the many tons of salt spread on the
roads in winter by the highway department.. my couple handfulls of
salt a day is so negligible that it doesn't count. �And salt is
not
toxic it's a necessity of life, a salt lick for live stock places
more salt into the ground than any water softener. �Softened water
contains very little salt, certainly far less than if the water
were not softened.

Wrong, unless you are using a dual ion exchange system. �The common
household water softener just exchanges calcium and magnesium ions
for sodium. �The carbonate, sulfate, or whatever else is in the
water
stays where it is.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-a...aundry/questio...

Your reading comprehension skills are near the 3rd grade elementary
school level, and I'm being quite generous.

[per your web site]
"Regeneration involves soaking the beads or zeolite in a stream of
sodium ions. Salt is sodium chloride, so the water softener mixes up
a
very strong brine solution and flushes it through the zeolite or
beads
(this is why you load up a water softener with salt). The strong
brine
displaces all of the calcium and magnesium that has built up in the
zeolite or beads and replaces it again with sodium. _The remaining
brine plus all of the calcium and magnesium is flushed out through a
drain pipe. "_

You're confusing "sodium" with "salt". The process is that sodium
ions are picked up on the surface of the zeolite. Not "salt", just
one of the chemical components of it. Those are exchanged for
less-reactive calcium and magnesium ions in the water, so calcium
carbonate (or magnesium sulfate or whatever) gets turned into sodium
carbonate (or sodium sulfate or whatever) with a slight release of
energy. The calcium and magnesium ions then remain on the suface of
the zeolite until such time as it is regenerated by exposure to sodium
chloride at which time it picks up the sodium ions and the calcium
goes into the brine as calcium chloride.

So the softened water has no "salt" added, what is has is the existing
calcium and magnesium compounds turned into sodium compounds. The
quantity of the compounds doesn't change, what changes is their
chemical composition.

If you think that a water softener works by "adding salt" then try
adding salt to hard water and then have the hardness checked with and
without salt and see what you get.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Watering with soft water
 

In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote:

Sheldon wrote:
On Mar 1, 9:41?pm, Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:12:11 -0800 (PST), Sheldon

wrote:





Charles wrote:
"SteveB" wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are
hooked to the soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to
watering with soft water? They're about to turn on the
irrigation
water system in our rural area, but I need to get around and
water some of the trees before that.

For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with
sodium. Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over
time it will build up, change the soil properties.

That's not true. ?There is no more salt contained in softened
water
than there is in the bottled water that people drink, usually
less.
If softened water contained salt then it wouldn't be softened
water,
now would it. ?The salt used by water softeners leaves the sytem
as
grey water (along with the other minerals the system removes),
that
never enters the domestic water. ?If the typical water softener
uses a pound of salt a day it's a lot, usually will use closer to
1/2 pound/ day. ?The trick is to find a way for disposing of the
grey water without it building up in one spot. ?My grey water
(water from my water softener, dehumidifier, and RO filter) is
piped by gravity to a creek, the same creek that collects run off
from many thousands of acres of lands as the creek meanders over
many miles, which includes the many tons of salt spread on the
roads in winter by the highway department.. my couple handfulls of
salt a day is so negligible that it doesn't count. ?And salt is
not
toxic it's a necessity of life, a salt lick for live stock places
more salt into the ground than any water softener. ?Softened water
contains very little salt, certainly far less than if the water
were not softened.

Wrong, unless you are using a dual ion exchange system. ?The common
household water softener just exchanges calcium and magnesium ions
for sodium. ?The carbonate, sulfate, or whatever else is in the
water
stays where it is.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-a...aundry/questio...

Your reading comprehension skills are near the 3rd grade elementary
school level, and I'm being quite generous.

[per your web site]
"Regeneration involves soaking the beads or zeolite in a stream of
sodium ions. Salt is sodium chloride, so the water softener mixes up
a
very strong brine solution and flushes it through the zeolite or
beads
(this is why you load up a water softener with salt). The strong
brine
displaces all of the calcium and magnesium that has built up in the
zeolite or beads and replaces it again with sodium. _The remaining
brine plus all of the calcium and magnesium is flushed out through a
drain pipe. "_

You're confusing "sodium" with "salt". The process is that sodium
ions are picked up on the surface of the zeolite. Not "salt", just
one of the chemical components of it. Those are exchanged for
less-reactive calcium and magnesium ions in the water, so calcium
carbonate (or magnesium sulfate or whatever) gets turned into sodium
carbonate (or sodium sulfate or whatever) with a slight release of
energy. The calcium and magnesium ions then remain on the suface of
the zeolite until such time as it is regenerated by exposure to sodium
chloride at which time it picks up the sodium ions and the calcium
goes into the brine as calcium chloride.

So the softened water has no "salt" added, what is has is the existing
calcium and magnesium compounds turned into sodium compounds. The
quantity of the compounds doesn't change, what changes is their
chemical composition.

If you think that a water softener works by "adding salt" then try
adding salt to hard water and then have the hardness checked with and
without salt and see what you get.

--

From my pitiful short garden experience.

* Water from rain is best
* then Water from rain barrels
* then Water from softener
* then Water from the hard line.
* Let plants die.

When I use my hard line my garden does not grow very well.
Still better than no water at all. I have also found that flowers does
seem to hold up better with the soft water than vegetables.

Most water softeners are first run through a sediment filter taking out
some nasty stuff first. Hard lines tend to come straight out of the well.

Depending on the size of your garden that softener can get expensive, if
it is a large one. If you are very rich and do not care, use the water
from the R.O. purification system from your drinking water.

Their are some companies that make inline water filters for the outside
water lines (also not cheap). I will let you do the searching.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

Watering with soft water
 

"Dioclese" NONE wrote

Any special notes on soaker hoses for this
situation?

--
Dave

Not sure about where you live, but here, the irrigation water is not
filtered to a high degree. Fill a glass gallon jug and see if it has
sediment or organic materials. This will clog up a soaker from the inside.

Steve

Watering with soft water
 

"SteveB" meagain@rockvilleUSA wrote in message
...

"Dioclese" NONE wrote

Any special notes on soaker hoses for this
situation?

--
Dave

Not sure about where you live, but here, the irrigation water is not
filtered to a high degree. Fill a glass gallon jug and see if it has
sediment or organic materials. This will clog up a soaker from the
inside.

Steve


Central TX, rural hill country west of IH35.

Do have calcium etc from limestone in well water. Not really concerned
about that since the soil is similar due to runoff from rain. I have a
sediment filter, hydrogen gas filtration bottle (aerator), and a whole-house
carbon filter running inline to the house.

I saw one of those "what ifs" on an educational channel on TV. Evidently,
the earth ODed on hydrogen sulfide gas sometime in the past. Killed pretty
much everything land and sea. There's potential for that to happen again.
The gas is bad ju-ju in concentrations. Thus, the soaker hose question
about water with hydrogen sulfide gas. Picture in my mind about a soaker
hose is like a holding tank, intermittently burping pure hydrogen sulfide
gas in concentration.

--
Dave

Watering with soft water
 

"Dan L." wrote in message
...
In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote:

Sheldon wrote:
On Mar 1, 9:41?pm, Charles wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:12:11 -0800 (PST), Sheldon

wrote:





Charles wrote:
"SteveB" wrote:

I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are
hooked to the soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to
watering with soft water? They're about to turn on the
irrigation
water system in our rural area, but I need to get around and
water some of the trees before that.

For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it.
Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with
sodium. Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over
time it will build up, change the soil properties.

That's not true. ?There is no more salt contained in softened
water
than there is in the bottled water that people drink, usually
less.
If softened water contained salt then it wouldn't be softened
water,
now would it. ?The salt used by water softeners leaves the sytem
as
grey water (along with the other minerals the system removes),
that
never enters the domestic water. ?If the typical water softener
uses a pound of salt a day it's a lot, usually will use closer to
1/2 pound/ day. ?The trick is to find a way for disposing of the
grey water without it building up in one spot. ?My grey water
(water from my water softener, dehumidifier, and RO filter) is
piped by gravity to a creek, the same creek that collects run off
from many thousands of acres of lands as the creek meanders over
many miles, which includes the many tons of salt spread on the
roads in winter by the highway department.. my couple handfulls of
salt a day is so negligible that it doesn't count. ?And salt is
not
toxic it's a necessity of life, a salt lick for live stock places
more salt into the ground than any water softener. ?Softened water
contains very little salt, certainly far less than if the water
were not softened.

Wrong, unless you are using a dual ion exchange system. ?The common
household water softener just exchanges calcium and magnesium ions
for sodium. ?The carbonate, sulfate, or whatever else is in the
water
stays where it is.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-a...aundry/questio...

Your reading comprehension skills are near the 3rd grade elementary
school level, and I'm being quite generous.

[per your web site]
"Regeneration involves soaking the beads or zeolite in a stream of
sodium ions. Salt is sodium chloride, so the water softener mixes up
a
very strong brine solution and flushes it through the zeolite or
beads
(this is why you load up a water softener with salt). The strong
brine
displaces all of the calcium and magnesium that has built up in the
zeolite or beads and replaces it again with sodium. _The remaining
brine plus all of the calcium and magnesium is flushed out through a
drain pipe. "_

You're confusing "sodium" with "salt". The process is that sodium
ions are picked up on the surface of the zeolite. Not "salt", just
one of the chemical components of it. Those are exchanged for
less-reactive calcium and magnesium ions in the water, so calcium
carbonate (or magnesium sulfate or whatever) gets turned into sodium
carbonate (or sodium sulfate or whatever) with a slight release of
energy. The calcium and magnesium ions then remain on the suface of
the zeolite until such time as it is regenerated by exposure to sodium
chloride at which time it picks up the sodium ions and the calcium
goes into the brine as calcium chloride.

So the softened water has no "salt" added, what is has is the existing
calcium and magnesium compounds turned into sodium compounds. The
quantity of the compounds doesn't change, what changes is their
chemical composition.

If you think that a water softener works by "adding salt" then try
adding salt to hard water and then have the hardness checked with and
without salt and see what you get.

--

From my pitiful short garden experience.

* Water from rain is best
* then Water from rain barrels
* then Water from softener
* then Water from the hard line.
* Let plants die.

When I use my hard line my garden does not grow very well.
Still better than no water at all. I have also found that flowers does
seem to hold up better with the soft water than vegetables.

Most water softeners are first run through a sediment filter taking out
some nasty stuff first. Hard lines tend to come straight out of the well.

Depending on the size of your garden that softener can get expensive, if
it is a large one. If you are very rich and do not care, use the water
from the R.O. purification system from your drinking water.

Their are some companies that make inline water filters for the outside
water lines (also not cheap). I will let you do the searching.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash
automatically.


The filter needed depends on what you want to remove, the concentration of
that unwanted substance, AND, how much resulting water you intend to use
during a filter change interval. A solar heated still with intermittent
manual removal of solids is almost like rain water purity. United States
Patent 5181991. Rain barrels are a good idea if you get enough rain, flush
the gunk out of barrels and lines once in awhile (green slime, might be
black if cold).

-----
Dave

Watering with soft water
 

In article , "Dioclese" NONE
wrote:

"SteveB" meagain@rockvilleUSA wrote in message
...

"Dioclese" NONE wrote

Any special notes on soaker hoses for this
situation?

--
Dave

Not sure about where you live, but here, the irrigation water is not
filtered to a high degree. Fill a glass gallon jug and see if it has
sediment or organic materials. This will clog up a soaker from the
inside.

Steve


Central TX, rural hill country west of IH35.

Do have calcium etc from limestone in well water. Not really concerned
about that since the soil is similar due to runoff from rain. I have a
sediment filter, hydrogen gas filtration bottle (aerator), and a whole-house
carbon filter running inline to the house.

I saw one of those "what ifs" on an educational channel on TV. Evidently,
the earth ODed on hydrogen sulfide gas sometime in the past. Killed pretty
much everything land and sea. There's potential for that to happen again.
The gas is bad ju-ju in concentrations.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...ID=00037A5 D-
A938-150E-A93883414B7F0000

Thus, the soaker hose question
about water with hydrogen sulfide gas. Picture in my mind about a soaker
hose is like a holding tank, intermittently burping pure hydrogen sulfide
gas in concentration.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Watering with soft water
 

there is a lot of water needed to backwash the resin (if paying for the water) plus
the electricity. then there are the iron prefilters to replace. on my mothers house
the water is very hard and she used a service, rented the equipment, somebody carried
the bags down into the basement and filled the softener. $45 every 3 months. She
had extensive gardens and I can see that it could have doubled the price if she didnt
have well water for the gardens. this doesnt even include the price she paid for
city water which I am not even sure how much that costs cause the renters pay for
that now.
We dont have a softener. During 3 months we use about 12-15 ccf in winter, about 30
or more ccf in summer. 30.0 ccf = $164.89. Remember that sewage fees are based on
USAGE it doesnt matter if that water for the garden doesnt go down the drain. Well
water costs nothing but the electricity to pump it and the pump replaced every 25
years or so. Ingrid

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 16:09:52 -0800, Billy wrote:

In article
,
Sheldon wrote:

wrote:

not to mention is very expensive to use soft water. ?

What do you call "very expensive"?

A 40 pound bag of salt will typically produce about 6,000 gallons of
softened water... a 40 pound bag of salt costs about $4.50.

Actually that same $4.50 worth of salt can save the average household
about $45 worth of cleaning products each month... not to mention the
time and effort of cleaning, and will save more than 6,000 gallons of
water each month (mostly hot water) because softened water is just
that much more efficient at cleaning. Softened water is kind to your
plumbing too, will save untold thousands in plumbing bills over the
life of the water softener (about 20 years).

If one lives in a hard water locale *not* having a water softener is
VERY expensive.

This was about gardening Shelly, not plumbing. Toxification of the
landscape and all that. St. Molly used to say, when you find yourself in
a hole, stop digging.

Watering with soft water
 

Well I am not confusing anything. salt is NaCl which dissociates in water to Na+ and
Cl-. Cl-, BTW is what makes food taste "salty". The sodium ions are exchanged for
the calcium and magnesium ions in the water which are stabilized with the chloride
ions which are flushed down the drain. The sodium stays in the softened water. This
is a BIG issue with people who keep fish because some places have so much calcium
and/or magnesium in their water that the sodium ion concentration is thus high enough
to sicken and/or kill their fish. This is even a bigger problem when people use salt
prophylactically without testing for sodium ion concentration. It is the chloride
ions that are helpful to fish, not the sodium.

In addition physicians typically admonish their patients with high blood pressure to
not drink softened water, rather, to use RO water for drinking. Ingrid


On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:43:40 -0500, "J. Clarke" wrote:
You're confusing "sodium" with "salt". The process is that sodium
ions are picked up on the surface of the zeolite. Not "salt", just
one of the chemical components of it. Those are exchanged for
less-reactive calcium and magnesium ions in the water, so calcium
carbonate (or magnesium sulfate or whatever) gets turned into sodium
carbonate (or sodium sulfate or whatever) with a slight release of
energy. The calcium and magnesium ions then remain on the suface of
the zeolite until such time as it is regenerated by exposure to sodium
chloride at which time it picks up the sodium ions and the calcium
goes into the brine as calcium chloride.

So the softened water has no "salt" added, what is has is the existing
calcium and magnesium compounds turned into sodium compounds. The
quantity of the compounds doesn't change, what changes is their
chemical composition.

If you think that a water softener works by "adding salt" then try
adding salt to hard water and then have the hardness checked with and
without salt and see what you get.

--

Watering with soft water
 

hydrogen sulfide is created by bacteria. in water it goes into solution as H2SO4,
sulfuric acid. of course, in a well both H2S and CO2 are under pressure and when
they are pumped out they de-gas. In the burbs outside Milwaukee well water can get
contaminated by the bacteria if there isnt a valve on the outside hoses to prevent
back flushing of soil (with bacteria) into the tank and then into the well. or, if
the well casing starts to break down letting soil into the well. IIRC the bacteria
feed off the iron in the water releasing the H2S. Anyway. the wells often need to
be cleaned by dumping bleach down in there and then flushed to get rid of the
bacteria. there is probably more H2S in the bottom of a typical pond than in well
water. soaker hoses dont stand up long to well water unless there are very good
filters on them. personal experience. Ingrid

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:27:57 -0600, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:
Similar question here. How about hydrogen sulfide gas from well water. Its
filtered out before entering home plumbing. Hose bibs are connected to the
same home plumbing.

Normally, I use the 2 standalone faucets outside for irrigation. These have
no filtration whatsoever. Any special notes on soaker hoses for this
situation?

Watering with soft water
 

In article ,
wrote:

hydrogen sulfide is created by bacteria. in water it goes into solution as
H2SO4,
sulfuric acid. of course, in a well both H2S and CO2 are under pressure and
when
they are pumped out they de-gas. In the burbs outside Milwaukee well water
can get
contaminated by the bacteria if there isnt a valve on the outside hoses to
prevent
back flushing of soil (with bacteria) into the tank and then into the well.
or, if
the well casing starts to break down letting soil into the well. IIRC the
bacteria
feed off the iron in the water releasing the H2S. Anyway. the wells often
need to
be cleaned by dumping bleach down in there and then flushed to get rid of the
bacteria. there is probably more H2S in the bottom of a typical pond than in
well
water. soaker hoses dont stand up long to well water unless there are very
good
filters on them. personal experience. Ingrid

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:27:57 -0600, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:
Similar question here. How about hydrogen sulfide gas from well water. Its
filtered out before entering home plumbing. Hose bibs are connected to the
same home plumbing.

Normally, I use the 2 standalone faucets outside for irrigation. These have
no filtration whatsoever. Any special notes on soaker hoses for this
situation?

H2S + 2CO2 - H2SO4 + C2 doesn't make any sense. Makes all other
statements questionable.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Watering with soft water
 

In article ,
wrote:

there is a lot of water needed to backwash the resin (if paying for the
water) plus
the electricity. then there are the iron prefilters to replace. on my
mothers house
the water is very hard and she used a service, rented the equipment, somebody
carried
the bags down into the basement and filled the softener. $45 every 3 months.
She
had extensive gardens and I can see that it could have doubled the price if
she didnt
have well water for the gardens. this doesnt even include the price she paid
for
city water which I am not even sure how much that costs cause the renters pay
for
that now.
We dont have a softener. During 3 months we use about 12-15 ccf in winter,
about 30
or more ccf in summer. 30.0 ccf = $164.89. Remember that sewage fees are
based on
USAGE it doesnt matter if that water for the garden doesnt go down the drain.
Well
water costs nothing but the electricity to pump it and the pump replaced
every 25
years or so. Ingrid

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 16:09:52 -0800, Billy wrote:

In article
,
Sheldon wrote:

wrote:

not to mention is very expensive to use soft water. ?

What do you call "very expensive"?

A 40 pound bag of salt will typically produce about 6,000 gallons of
softened water... a 40 pound bag of salt costs about $4.50.

Actually that same $4.50 worth of salt can save the average household
about $45 worth of cleaning products each month... not to mention the
time and effort of cleaning, and will save more than 6,000 gallons of
water each month (mostly hot water) because softened water is just
that much more efficient at cleaning. Softened water is kind to your
plumbing too, will save untold thousands in plumbing bills over the
life of the water softener (about 20 years).

If one lives in a hard water locale *not* having a water softener is
VERY expensive.

This was about gardening Shelly, not plumbing. Toxification of the
landscape and all that. St. Molly used to say, when you find yourself in
a hole, stop digging.

Soft water is good for the bathtub/shower, laundry, and the dishwasher.
For drinking, hard water is probably better (mineral water).
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Watering with soft water
 

On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:25:36 -0800, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

there is a lot of water needed to backwash the resin (if paying for the
water) plus
the electricity. then there are the iron prefilters to replace. on my
mothers house
the water is very hard and she used a service, rented the equipment, somebody
carried
the bags down into the basement and filled the softener. $45 every 3 months.
She
had extensive gardens and I can see that it could have doubled the price if
she didnt
have well water for the gardens. this doesnt even include the price she paid
for
city water which I am not even sure how much that costs cause the renters pay
for
that now.
We dont have a softener. During 3 months we use about 12-15 ccf in winter,
about 30
or more ccf in summer. 30.0 ccf = $164.89. Remember that sewage fees are
based on
USAGE it doesnt matter if that water for the garden doesnt go down the drain.
Well
water costs nothing but the electricity to pump it and the pump replaced
every 25
years or so. Ingrid

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 16:09:52 -0800, Billy wrote:

In article
,
Sheldon wrote:

wrote:

not to mention is very expensive to use soft water. ?

What do you call "very expensive"?

A 40 pound bag of salt will typically produce about 6,000 gallons of
softened water... a 40 pound bag of salt costs about $4.50.

Actually that same $4.50 worth of salt can save the average household
about $45 worth of cleaning products each month... not to mention the
time and effort of cleaning, and will save more than 6,000 gallons of
water each month (mostly hot water) because softened water is just
that much more efficient at cleaning. Softened water is kind to your
plumbing too, will save untold thousands in plumbing bills over the
life of the water softener (about 20 years).

If one lives in a hard water locale *not* having a water softener is
VERY expensive.

This was about gardening Shelly, not plumbing. Toxification of the
landscape and all that. St. Molly used to say, when you find yourself in
a hole, stop digging.

Soft water is good for the bathtub/shower, laundry, and the dishwasher.
For drinking, hard water is probably better (mineral water).


I think it depends on how hard it is and what else is in it. Out city
water tastes bad to me, it is very hard. It's no doubt better on a
health basis, except when it is so offensive that I don't drink it.

I use an RO filter for drinking water.

Watering with soft water
 

On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:20:15 -0800, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

hydrogen sulfide is created by bacteria. in water it goes into solution as
H2SO4,
sulfuric acid. of course, in a well both H2S and CO2 are under pressure and
when
they are pumped out they de-gas. In the burbs outside Milwaukee well water
can get
contaminated by the bacteria if there isnt a valve on the outside hoses to
prevent
back flushing of soil (with bacteria) into the tank and then into the well.
or, if
the well casing starts to break down letting soil into the well. IIRC the
bacteria
feed off the iron in the water releasing the H2S. Anyway. the wells often
need to
be cleaned by dumping bleach down in there and then flushed to get rid of the
bacteria. there is probably more H2S in the bottom of a typical pond than in
well
water. soaker hoses dont stand up long to well water unless there are very
good
filters on them. personal experience. Ingrid

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:27:57 -0600, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:
Similar question here. How about hydrogen sulfide gas from well water. Its
filtered out before entering home plumbing. Hose bibs are connected to the
same home plumbing.

Normally, I use the 2 standalone faucets outside for irrigation. These have
no filtration whatsoever. Any special notes on soaker hoses for this
situation?

H2S + 2CO2 - H2SO4 + C2 doesn't make any sense. Makes all other
statements questionable.


The H2S in the well most likely comes from sulfate reducing bacteria
acting on sulfates that are already in the water.

Watering with soft water
 

On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:20:15 -0800, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

hydrogen sulfide is created by bacteria. in water it goes into solution as
H2SO4,
sulfuric acid. of course, in a well both H2S and CO2 are under pressure and
when
they are pumped out they de-gas. In the burbs outside Milwaukee well water
can get
contaminated by the bacteria if there isnt a valve on the outside hoses to
prevent
back flushing of soil (with bacteria) into the tank and then into the well.
or, if
the well casing starts to break down letting soil into the well. IIRC the
bacteria
feed off the iron in the water releasing the H2S. Anyway. the wells often
need to
be cleaned by dumping bleach down in there and then flushed to get rid of the
bacteria. there is probably more H2S in the bottom of a typical pond than in
well
water. soaker hoses dont stand up long to well water unless there are very
good
filters on them. personal experience. Ingrid

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:27:57 -0600, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:
Similar question here. How about hydrogen sulfide gas from well water. Its
filtered out before entering home plumbing. Hose bibs are connected to the
same home plumbing.

Normally, I use the 2 standalone faucets outside for irrigation. These have
no filtration whatsoever. Any special notes on soaker hoses for this
situation?

H2S + 2CO2 - H2SO4 + C2 doesn't make any sense. Makes all other
statements questionable.


Sulfur dioxide and water combine to form sulfurous acid, H2SO3. This
slowly oxidizes to form sulfuric acid, H2SO4. Sulfur dioxide can also
oxidize to sulfur trioxide, which will then combine with water to form
sulfuric acid.

Sulfate reducing bacteria can remove the oxygen from the acid.

H2SO4 - H2S + 2O2

The H2SO4 while in water will be ionized and may be associated with
other cations, calcium, magnesium, the like. So the above description
is only a rough description of what is going on.

Watering with soft water
 

In article ,
"Ryan P." wrote:

Billy wrote:


H2S + 2CO2 - H2SO4 + C2 doesn't make any sense. Makes all other
statements questionable.
.
.
I don't know about the chemical equation there, but I do know that my
home inspector told me the same thing about making sure there was a
valve on the outside spigots to prevent backflow for that very reason...
also good for keeping fertilizers and the like out of your pipes.

H2SO4 is sulfuric acid. H2S + 2CO2 - H2SO4 + C2 doesn't make any sense.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Watering with soft water
 

On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:22:49 -0800, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
"Ryan P." wrote:

Billy wrote:


H2S + 2CO2 - H2SO4 + C2 doesn't make any sense. Makes all other
statements questionable.
.
.
I don't know about the chemical equation there, but I do know that my
home inspector told me the same thing about making sure there was a
valve on the outside spigots to prevent backflow for that very reason...
also good for keeping fertilizers and the like out of your pipes.

H2SO4 is sulfuric acid. H2S + 2CO2 - H2SO4 + C2 doesn't make any sense.


I think the CO2 was incidental to the discussion. There may be some
biological reactions where bacteria are removing the carbon from the
CO2, releasing oxygen, which then combines with the H2S, but that's
getting a bit far afield here. More frequently the bacteria remove
the oxygen from the sulfate, use it to metabolize some organic
compounds and release the CO2 from that metabolism.

Watering with soft water
 

In article ,
Charles wrote:

On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:20:15 -0800, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

hydrogen sulfide is created by bacteria. in water it goes into solution
as
H2SO4,
sulfuric acid. of course, in a well both H2S and CO2 are under pressure
and
when
they are pumped out they de-gas. In the burbs outside Milwaukee well
water
can get
contaminated by the bacteria if there isnt a valve on the outside hoses to
prevent
back flushing of soil (with bacteria) into the tank and then into the
well.
or, if
the well casing starts to break down letting soil into the well. IIRC the
bacteria
feed off the iron in the water releasing the H2S. Anyway. the wells
often
need to
be cleaned by dumping bleach down in there and then flushed to get rid of
the
bacteria. there is probably more H2S in the bottom of a typical pond than
in
well
water. soaker hoses dont stand up long to well water unless there are
very
good
filters on them. personal experience. Ingrid

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:27:57 -0600, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:
Similar question here. How about hydrogen sulfide gas from well water.
Its
filtered out before entering home plumbing. Hose bibs are connected to
the
same home plumbing.

Normally, I use the 2 standalone faucets outside for irrigation. These
have
no filtration whatsoever. Any special notes on soaker hoses for this
situation?

H2S + 2CO2 - H2SO4 + C2 doesn't make any sense. Makes all other
statements questionable.


**Sulfur dioxide**
Flange head, we were talking about hydrogen sulfide, not sulfur dioxide.
You're an idiot. If you don't know the difference between sulfide and
sulfite, then don't respond to the question. H2S vs. SO2 (rotten eggs
vs. brimstone). What an imbecile.
Idiot. Moron. Get my drift?
and water combine to form sulfurous acid, H2SO3. This
slowly oxidizes to form sulfuric acid, H2SO4. Sulfur dioxide can also
oxidize to sulfur trioxide, which will then combine with water to form
sulfuric acid.

Sulfate reducing bacteria can remove the oxygen from the acid.

H2SO4 - H2S + 2O2

The H2SO4 while in water will be ionized and may be associated with
other cations, calcium, magnesium, the like. So the above description
is only a rough description of what is going on.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Watering with soft water
 

On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:39:37 -0800, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
Charles wrote:

On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:20:15 -0800, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

hydrogen sulfide is created by bacteria. in water it goes into solution
as
H2SO4,
sulfuric acid. of course, in a well both H2S and CO2 are under pressure
and
when
they are pumped out they de-gas. In the burbs outside Milwaukee well
water
can get
contaminated by the bacteria if there isnt a valve on the outside hoses to
prevent
back flushing of soil (with bacteria) into the tank and then into the
well.
or, if
the well casing starts to break down letting soil into the well. IIRC the
bacteria
feed off the iron in the water releasing the H2S. Anyway. the wells
often
need to
be cleaned by dumping bleach down in there and then flushed to get rid of
the
bacteria. there is probably more H2S in the bottom of a typical pond than
in
well
water. soaker hoses dont stand up long to well water unless there are
very
good
filters on them. personal experience. Ingrid

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:27:57 -0600, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:
Similar question here. How about hydrogen sulfide gas from well water.
Its
filtered out before entering home plumbing. Hose bibs are connected to
the
same home plumbing.

Normally, I use the 2 standalone faucets outside for irrigation. These
have
no filtration whatsoever. Any special notes on soaker hoses for this
situation?

H2S + 2CO2 - H2SO4 + C2 doesn't make any sense. Makes all other
statements questionable.


**Sulfur dioxide**
Flange head, we were talking about hydrogen sulfide, not sulfur dioxide.
You're an idiot. If you don't know the difference between sulfide and
sulfite, then don't respond to the question. H2S vs. SO2 (rotten eggs
vs. brimstone). What an imbecile.
Idiot. Moron. Get my drift?

No, I don't.

I started talking about sulfur dioxide because it was appropriate to
what I had to say. Not too complicated, is it?

What I was getting to was the H2S and the CO2 combination, CO2 drifted
into the thread some time ago.


and water combine to form sulfurous acid, H2SO3. This
slowly oxidizes to form sulfuric acid, H2SO4. Sulfur dioxide can also
oxidize to sulfur trioxide, which will then combine with water to form
sulfuric acid.

Sulfate reducing bacteria can remove the oxygen from the acid.

H2SO4 - H2S + 2O2

The H2SO4 while in water will be ionized and may be associated with
other cations, calcium, magnesium, the like. So the above description
is only a rough description of what is going on.