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Lawn Aerator
Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand. I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a motorized version.
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Lawn Aerator
"Guv Bob" wrote in message ...
Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand. I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a motorized version. I meant to say.... you fill the barrel up with water. Ends up weighing around 200 pounds. |
Lawn Aerator
"Guv Bob" wrote:
Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand. I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a motorized version. I meant to say.... you fill the barrel up with water. Ends up weighing around 200 pounds. I seriously doubt you are physically capable of moving that type of aerator by hand unless it's always downhill and then it will aerate you. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...Id=6970&ipp=24 |
Lawn Aerator
Guv Bob wrote:
Anybody know where to get an aerator ... Lawn aeration is a crock. There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health. Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of turf. Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf to be removed from it? What type of soil do you have in Long Beach? |
Lawn Aerator
On 7/18/2014 6:36 PM, HomeGuy wrote:
Guv Bob wrote: Anybody know where to get an aerator ... Lawn aeration is a crock. There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health. Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of turf. Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf to be removed from it? What type of soil do you have in Long Beach? Spike aerators do more damage than they correct. They compact the soil around the holes they create. Plugging aerators loosen the soil by removing plugs. Where the soil is heavy clay, this can be a great benefit. The holes permit water to penetrate the surface, carrying nutrients towards roots. Believe it or not, roots also benefit from the increase in oxygen reaching them. Spike aerators prevent all this instead of permitting it. Aeration can be important wherever there is foot traffic across a planted area. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean, see http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Lawn Aerator
"HomeGuy" "Home"@Guy.com wrote in message ...
Guv Bob wrote: Anybody know where to get an aerator ... Lawn aeration is a crock. There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health. Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of turf. Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf to be removed from it? What type of soil do you have in Long Beach? Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea. |
Lawn Aerator
"Guv Bob" wrote in message m...
"HomeGuy" "Home"@Guy.com wrote in message ... Guv Bob wrote: Anybody know where to get an aerator ... Lawn aeration is a crock. There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health. Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of turf. Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf to be removed from it? What type of soil do you have in Long Beach? Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea. PS - This is out near the desert - not anywhere close to Long Beach. |
Lawn Aerator
On 7/18/2014 8:19 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
"HomeGuy" "Home"@Guy.com wrote in message ... Guv Bob wrote: Anybody know where to get an aerator ... Lawn aeration is a crock. There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health. Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of turf. Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf to be removed from it? What type of soil do you have in Long Beach? Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea. I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it. Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will get good results. Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean, see http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Lawn Aerator
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote: I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it. Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will get good results. Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum. Which answers te question I was going to ask. We are quite rightly called "Clay Township" and even aerating once a year for 5 years and twice for the last 3 haven't made any noticable improvement in problem areas. Gypsum now and then aerate in the fall? -- ?Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.? ? Aaron Levenstein |
Lawn Aerator
On 7/19/2014 6:53 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , "David E. Ross" wrote: I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it. Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will get good results. Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum. Which answers te question I was going to ask. We are quite rightly called "Clay Township" and even aerating once a year for 5 years and twice for the last 3 haven't made any noticable improvement in problem areas. Gypsum now and then aerate in the fall? In my area, rain (if it ever falls again :( ) is in the winter. I apply gypsum in November. Not having small children any more to run across my small lawn, I do not need to mechanically aerate. (Visits from grandchildren are an occasional treat.) When I had a larger lawn and small children, I would mechanically aerate about two weeks after applying gypsum. This would mean that I maximized the penetration of rain. The answer to your question thus depends on your climate. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean, see http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Lawn Aerator
On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 21:26:56 -0700, "David E. Ross"
wrote: Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea. I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it. Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will get good results. Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum. +1 on using gypsum. Use a coring aerator that removes the 2" plugs. Scatter the gypsum and water the area. The gypsum helps break down the clay so water can penetrate the soil - in my experience. Coring also allows plenty of oxygen into the soil. Even a good time to over seed with grass seed. Leave the plug cores on the ground and they eventually break down in a week or so. |
Lawn Aerator
Oren wrote:
+1 on using gypsum. Use a coring aerator that removes the 2" plugs. Scatter the gypsum and water the area. The gypsum helps break down the clay so water can penetrate the soil - in my experience. Coring also allows plenty of oxygen into the soil. You guys (particularly you Oren) are full of so much shit on this topic it's beyond belief. Your ideas especially about oxygen are pulled straight out of your ass. You have absolutely no idea what the gas permeability is of soil, especially given all the different conditions you're going to encounter. This guy (Bob) lives in what is becoming a desert (California, Long Beach). His soil will be very dry and porous and this is not an issue of getting more atmospheric gas in contact with roots. The accepted treatment for patchy lawns growing in clay is to top-dress frequently with top soil and throw in grass seed and fertilizer. AND LOTS OF WATER - something the OP will not be able to do. There are con artists that troll neighborhoods in the spring with aerators they rent from Home Despot. I garantee you they do not bring top soil or gypsum with them to rake into the holes as part of their con jobs. And they set their plugs to barely reach 1.5 or 2" so they don't cut any in-ground infrastructure (irrigation lines, telephone or RG-6 coax cable). The OP has primarily a water problem, and either too much or too little shade for his lawn to thrive. Throwing down a good amount of fertilizer and water can do amazing things for a lawn, even in clay. I live in the middle of the great lakes - this is clay central. My own property is in an area that was once dug up decades ago for clay to make bricks. I have never once aerated my lawn in 15 years of ownership. My grass does very well in the areas I bother to take care of it. And here I will give you one expert who is basically saying that adding gypsum after the fact to an established lawn is full of shit: http://web.extension.illinois.edu/as...AskSiteI D=34 ============== We often get this question about how to improve the structure of a soil after plants or in your case a lawn has been installed. It is not easy and often there is not a very efficient way of doing this because you don't want to start over. Ideally we like to see soil improvement done before planting and the best way is to incorporate a lot of organic matter into the soil. Many people think that gypsum is the magic cure for clay soils. While gypsum is often suggested to help loosen up clay soil by getting between the particles and helping to floculate or open up the soil for better air and ater movement it often takes time and if a plant is there again it can't be incorporated the way it should be. The only way I think you can help a tight clay soil under sod is to do vigorous core cultivation. This means using a machine that puts holes into the ground that are at least 4 inches deep and about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in diameter with the holes being no more than 2 inches apart. After that you can topdress with good soil that is worked into the holes and allows air and water to start moving down and supporting good root structure. Gypsum could be added but it isn't going to do the job as well as if it were to be fully incorporated. Doing this coring regularly will eventually start to "replace" the soil one core at a time allowing a better soil environment for root development. ================ FOUR inches deep. Take note of that. Half inch to 3/4 diam, NO MORE THAN 2 INCHES APART. Your lawn is going to look like swiss cheese after that. If you're going to do that, you might as well rototill the whole thing, and ADD SAND. Playground or brick sand. That will probably work better (and cheaper) than gypsum. "Doing this coring regularly ..." Who the hell wants to break their back doing that "regularly" ? Either just top-dress once or twice a year, or rototill the whole dam lawn, truck a good amount of the clay away and replace with some good black earth and load it with some good grass seed and fertilize. But again, maybe you're just wasting your time since you're in the middle of a drought and who knows when it will end. Probably not a good time (or a good decade) to try to do any lawn rehabilitation in California. |
Lawn Aerator
On 7/19/2014 9:50 AM, HomeGuy wrote:
Oren wrote: +1 on using gypsum. Use a coring aerator that removes the 2" plugs. Scatter the gypsum and water the area. The gypsum helps break down the clay so water can penetrate the soil - in my experience. Coring also allows plenty of oxygen into the soil. You guys (particularly you Oren) are full of so much shit on this topic it's beyond belief. Your ideas especially about oxygen are pulled straight out of your ass. You have absolutely no idea what the gas permeability is of soil, especially given all the different conditions you're going to encounter. This guy (Bob) lives in what is becoming a desert (California, Long Beach). His soil will be very dry and porous and this is not an issue of getting more atmospheric gas in contact with roots. The accepted treatment for patchy lawns growing in clay is to top-dress frequently with top soil and throw in grass seed and fertilizer. AND LOTS OF WATER - something the OP will not be able to do. There are con artists that troll neighborhoods in the spring with aerators they rent from Home Despot. I garantee you they do not bring top soil or gypsum with them to rake into the holes as part of their con jobs. And they set their plugs to barely reach 1.5 or 2" so they don't cut any in-ground infrastructure (irrigation lines, telephone or RG-6 coax cable). The OP has primarily a water problem, and either too much or too little shade for his lawn to thrive. Throwing down a good amount of fertilizer and water can do amazing things for a lawn, even in clay. I live in the middle of the great lakes - this is clay central. My own property is in an area that was once dug up decades ago for clay to make bricks. I have never once aerated my lawn in 15 years of ownership. My grass does very well in the areas I bother to take care of it. And here I will give you one expert who is basically saying that adding gypsum after the fact to an established lawn is full of shit: http://web.extension.illinois.edu/as...AskSiteI D=34 ============== We often get this question about how to improve the structure of a soil after plants or in your case a lawn has been installed. It is not easy and often there is not a very efficient way of doing this because you don't want to start over. Ideally we like to see soil improvement done before planting and the best way is to incorporate a lot of organic matter into the soil. Many people think that gypsum is the magic cure for clay soils. While gypsum is often suggested to help loosen up clay soil by getting between the particles and helping to floculate or open up the soil for better air and ater movement it often takes time and if a plant is there again it can't be incorporated the way it should be. The only way I think you can help a tight clay soil under sod is to do vigorous core cultivation. This means using a machine that puts holes into the ground that are at least 4 inches deep and about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in diameter with the holes being no more than 2 inches apart. After that you can topdress with good soil that is worked into the holes and allows air and water to start moving down and supporting good root structure. Gypsum could be added but it isn't going to do the job as well as if it were to be fully incorporated. Doing this coring regularly will eventually start to "replace" the soil one core at a time allowing a better soil environment for root development. ================ FOUR inches deep. Take note of that. Half inch to 3/4 diam, NO MORE THAN 2 INCHES APART. Your lawn is going to look like swiss cheese after that. If you're going to do that, you might as well rototill the whole thing, and ADD SAND. Playground or brick sand. That will probably work better (and cheaper) than gypsum. "Doing this coring regularly ..." Who the hell wants to break their back doing that "regularly" ? Either just top-dress once or twice a year, or rototill the whole dam lawn, truck a good amount of the clay away and replace with some good black earth and load it with some good grass seed and fertilize. But again, maybe you're just wasting your time since you're in the middle of a drought and who knows when it will end. Probably not a good time (or a good decade) to try to do any lawn rehabilitation in California. You -- HomeGuy -- have just joined Todd in my filter system. Good-bye. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean, see http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Lawn Aerator
HomeGuy wrote:
Guv Bob wrote: Anybody know where to get an aerator ... Lawn aeration is a crock. Hi, Not really, depends on where you live due to difference in soil condition. I admire people talking in definitive and subjective terms. When I lived in ON. I never used aerator. |
Lawn Aerator
David E. Ross wrote:
On 7/18/2014 6:36 PM, HomeGuy wrote: Guv Bob wrote: Anybody know where to get an aerator ... Lawn aeration is a crock. There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health. Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of turf. Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf to be removed from it? What type of soil do you have in Long Beach? Spike aerators do more damage than they correct. They compact the soil around the holes they create. Plugging aerators loosen the soil by removing plugs. Where the soil is heavy clay, this can be a great benefit. The holes permit water to penetrate the surface, carrying nutrients towards roots. Believe it or not, roots also benefit from the increase in oxygen reaching them. Spike aerators prevent all this instead of permitting it. Aeration can be important wherever there is foot traffic across a planted area. Hi, +1. Definitely beneficial for healthy lawn in our locale. |
Lawn Aerator
HomeGuy" "Home wrote:
Oren wrote: +1 on using gypsum. Use a coring aerator that removes the 2" plugs. Scatter the gypsum and water the area. The gypsum helps break down the clay so water can penetrate the soil - in my experience. Coring also allows plenty of oxygen into the soil. You guys (particularly you Oren) are full of so much shit on this topic it's beyond belief. Your ideas especially about oxygen are pulled straight out of your ass. You may (or may not) be the world's greatest authority on lawns but there is no reason to be so rude regardless of your expertise. Try and learn from those who know more and teach those who know less without struting your ego so much. David - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - A better world requires a daily struggle against those who would mislead us. |
Lawn Aerator
David E. Ross wrote:
You -- HomeGuy -- have just joined Todd in my filter system. Good-bye. Good luck on that. |
Lawn Aerator
David E. Ross wrote:
You -- HomeGuy -- have just joined Todd in my filter system. Good-bye. You -- David Ross - you'll read my posts when and if I want you to. Bob F wrote: Good luck on that. Yes, that's what I'm thinking. |
Lawn Aerator
Tony Hwang wrote:
Lawn aeration is a crock. Definitely beneficial for healthy lawn in our locale. Stupid move, Tony. You're deluding yourself. In areas that get sub-freezing in winter (like most of Canada) the many cycles of frost heaving (freeze-thaw) in winter does a great job of breaking up residential soil. Think about it. Just look what it does to our roads, and imagine what is going on in the soil. |
Lawn Aerator
HomeGuy wrote:
Guv Bob wrote: Anybody know where to get an aerator ... Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf to be removed from it? Plugs are NOT removed, they are extracted and returned to the lawn. Plug aeration is a mild form of tilling that doesn't disturb the turf, an excellent practice for ALL established lawns. I do not recommend aeration for non-lawns, then rototilling with added amendments is highly recommended. Aerating poor soil will not improve it, may even make poor soil worse by accelerating erosion. |
Lawn Aerator
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 09:22:21 -0400, H o m e G u y
H o m e @ g u y . c o m wrote: Tony Hwang wrote: Lawn aeration is a crock. Definitely beneficial for healthy lawn in our locale. Stupid move, Tony. You're deluding yourself. In areas that get sub-freezing in winter (like most of Canada) the many cycles of frost heaving (freeze-thaw) in winter does a great job of breaking up residential soil. Think about it. Just look what it does to our roads, and imagine what is going on in the soil. Poor analogy. Frost heaving may break up pavement but does nothing to improve compacted soil, in fact when it finally dries it will be more compacted. In spring as soon as soil is friable is the best time to till/aerate before soil dries. Garden soil is not pavement. |
Lawn Aerator
David E. Ross wrote:
You -- HomeGuy -- have just joined Todd in my filter system. Good-bye. Usenet Rule No. 106: Those who publicly announce killfiling do not. Best to simply ignore the douchebags without comment. |
Lawn Aerator
On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 19:18:31 -0700, "David E. Ross"
wrote: Spike aerators do more damage than they correct. They compact the soil around the holes they create. Plugging aerators loosen the soil by removing plugs. Where the soil is heavy clay, this can be a great benefit. The holes permit water to penetrate the surface, carrying nutrients towards roots. Believe it or not, roots also benefit from the increase in oxygen reaching them. Spike aerators prevent all this instead of permitting it. Aeration can be important wherever there is foot traffic across a planted area. "Plugging" aerators also remove thatch in the lawn turf at the same time (two birds - one stone). Here in the desert, we live on "hard pan" / compacted soil. Much of the reason we have flash floods from water not soaking into the ground. Dust is like talc powder. Gypsum is used to break down the difficult soil - reducing compaction. Many home gardens are in raised beads vs fighting the soil without a back-hoe. Golf course greens are aerated or thatched. |
Lawn Aerator
Brooklyn1 wrote:
Lawn aeration is a crock. In areas that get sub-freezing in winter (like most of Canada) the many cycles of frost heaving (freeze-thaw) in winter does a great job of breaking up residential soil. Just look what it does to our roads, and imagine what is going on in the soil. Poor analogy. Frost heaving may break up pavement but does nothing to improve compacted soil, Completely absurd. A simple search of the effects of freeze-thaw cycles on soil quickly gave me this: ================== Secondary Frost Heave in Freezing Soils by Christopher Noon A thesis submitted for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy University of Oxford 1996 Frost heave is responsible for numerous environmental problems including damage to roads, pavements and the foundations of buildings. Other less obvious problems are caused by the weakening of ground when a frozen soil, especially one which has heaved, thaws. This occurs because frost heave and freezing of soil in general, induces a moisture flow up towards the freezing front thereby increasing its frozen water content and dramatically decreasing the frozen soil’s permeability due to a decrease in water fraction and the presence of ice lenses. Thawing occurs naturally from the soil surface downwards and hence the thawed soil can become saturated causing it to suffer a complete loss of strength. http://eprints.maths.ox.ac.uk/27/1/noon.pdf ================= Anyone who lives in (at least) the northern 1/3 of the US and all of Canada knows that when walking on your lawn in April (or in May in Canada) when the last of the snow has melted from your front or back lawns knows how spongy the ground feels. It is a complete crock of shit to think that aerating your lawn does anything to "break up" or "loosen" your soil under those conditions. And take a look at this: http://www.scotts.com/smg/goART2/Inf...myths/12300004 ====================== Myth #2: You Need to Aerate Your Lawn Every Year Aerating is hard work that requires expensive machinery. Fortunately, you may not have to do it. Aeration is helpful when your lawn has a lot of foot traffic that compacts the soil. Also, if you have a lot of thatch, or if you need to amend the soil, you may want to aerate. If not, save yourself some time and money, not to mention an aching back. Myth #3: Gypsum Aerates Your Lawn Somebody made a lot of money with this one. If you spread gypsum on your lawn, you'll end up with some very nice pebbles, but not an aerated lawn. ======================= Thatch removal or management is frequently mentioned as a byproduct of core aeration. What is never mentioned is that if you always bag and remove your grass clippings, you'll never have a thatch problem (and all associated problems that come from harboring various turf insects and diseases). And to some degree the raking of the plugs that happens by people who take more of an interest in lawn care and succumb to the placebo effect of thinking their lawns looks better after coring are really just seeing the effect of thatch removal which can make an early spring lawn look much better. |
Lawn Aerator
H o m e G u y H o m e @ g u y . c o m wrote:
David E. Ross wrote: You -- HomeGuy -- have just joined Todd in my filter system. Good-bye. You -- David Ross - you'll read my posts when and if I want you to. So you admit to being a morphing peice of shit troll. Got it, glad that you finally can admit for all to see POS |
Lawn Aerator
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:19:05 -0400, H o m e G u y
H o m e @ g u y . c o m wrote: Brooklyn1 wrote: Lawn aeration is a crock. In areas that get sub-freezing in winter (like most of Canada) the many cycles of frost heaving (freeze-thaw) in winter does a great job of breaking up residential soil. Just look what it does to our roads, and imagine what is going on in the soil. Poor analogy. Frost heaving may break up pavement but does nothing to improve compacted soil, Anyone who lives in (at least) the northern 1/3 of the US and all of Canada knows that when walking on your lawn in April (or in May in Canada) when the last of the snow has melted from your front or back lawns knows how spongy the ground feels. You conveniently deleted where I said when it DRIES... you are a douchebag, an imbecile, and very dishonest. |
Lawn Aerator
Brooklyn1 wrote:
You conveniently deleted where I said when it DRIES... you are a douchebag, an imbecile, and very dishonest. And you're a dumb ****. What do you do when it dries? You water it, you shit-head. What a ****ing genius you are. Core your lawn in the spring - when it just came through freeze-thaw pulverization (if that's your climate) when it doesn't need it, so that magically it won't be hard when it dries in the summer (because you didn't water it). So tell me, what sort of magic does coring do in the spring (that freeze-thawing doesn't do) such that by summer your dried-out soil somehow magically doesn't get hard. And I don't care what the lawn-care industry says (they with their vested interests in you spending money on their stuff). If your lawn is basically there for you to look at - AND every once in a while to walk on it, then it doesn't matter if you're in a zone that doesn't freeze. Without punishing foot traffic (or car parking, etc) there is nothing compacting your soil. Pulling plugs out of your lawn is for the birds in that case. |
Lawn Aerator
Guv Bob wrote:
What type of soil do you have in Long Beach? Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Grass roots don't really grow much below 2" anyways. Just look at rolls of sod. They certainly don't come 2" thick (with soil). Lawns need almost daily watering when the daily high temp reaches 80 unless except on overcast days - then maybe you can go 4 days without water. This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft. Forget aerating. Have a yard of black earth / top-soil delivered and rake it evenly all over, and throw in some grass seed while you're at it. THAT is by far the most accepted way to deal with poor sub-soil conditions without completely replacing the top 4" of soil. And then you need to water. But you haven't said anything about your ability to irrigate this patch of grass. What municipal water restrictions are you under currently - now and for the next few months? |
Lawn Aerator
On 7/20/2014 4:41 PM, Guv Bob wrote [in part]:
This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft. Would be nice to have grass there, but being dirt is OK, and not worth renting anything. A few years ago I had to put ground cover on a bare compacted clay hill. I ended up getting a 5/8-inch masonry bit and drilling 4-inch holes about 6-8 inches apart, dropping red apple ice plant pieces in and filling with good soil. Nearly all survived and within a year the hill was covered. While it used to be quite common to plant ice plant on a slope, the recommendation today is very much against that. During a rain, ice plant takes up much water and becomes quite heavy. The roots tend to be shallow and not very extensive. The result is that the ice plant will often pull loose, slide down the hill, and take part of the hill with it. I am very sensitive about proper planting of slopes since the hill in my back yard has slipped twice. The second time, the repair cost almost four times what I paid for my house; my grandchildren will make the last payment on the federal disaster loan. No, there is no such thing as insurance against a slope failing; and the repairs are never guaranteed. Grape vines are very good on a hill; they have very tough, deep roots and generally do not care how poor is the soil. Alone, African daisies or ivy (English or Algerian) are not good because their roots tend to form a mat that can become a weak layer; African daisies and ivy mixed together, however, are excellent on a hill because those mats are at different depths and tend to be less concentrated. According to the grading experts in my county's public works agency, trees on a hill can be bad. In a wind, they rock back and forth, breaking up the soil around the bases of the trunks. With a major rain storm, that becomes a path for a large amount of water to funnel down to the subsoil. Depending on their alignment, this can lubricate the boundary between soil and subsoil and trigger a slide. On the other hand, shrubs are okay. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean, see http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Lawn Aerator
"Guv Bob" wrote in message m...
"HomeGuy" "Home"@Guy.com wrote in message ... Guv Bob wrote: Anybody know where to get an aerator ... Lawn aeration is a crock. There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health. Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of turf. Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf to be removed from it? What type of soil do you have in Long Beach? Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea. This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft. Would be nice to have grass there, but being dirt is OK, and not worth renting anything. A few years ago I had to put ground cover on a bare compacted clay hill. I ended up getting a 5/8-inch masonry bit and drilling 4-inch holes about 6-8 inches apart, dropping red apple ice plant pieces in and filling with good soil. Nearly all survived and within a year the hill was covered. |
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H o m e G u y wrote:
Guv Bob wrote: What type of soil do you have in Long Beach? Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Grass roots don't really grow much below 2" anyways. Just look at rolls of sod. They certainly don't come 2" thick (with soil). Rolls of sod are sold with only enough soil/roots to survive till thet're layed. Otherwise, the sod farms would quickly run out of soil. I recently cut up a bunch of lawn for a garden with a rented sod cutter. I cut 2+" deep, and still had a tough layer of roots that my old rototiller couldn't easily get through. There was at least 2" of root left, and I had to break it up with a shovel before my tiller could do its job. Of course, since you operate by the stupid theory that you have to water every day if it gets over 80F (in another post), your grass will have no deep roots. They only go deep if they have to to find water. My lawn has no problem with a good watering once a week in 80F weather. |
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"H o m e G u y" H o m e @ g u y . c o m wrote in message ...
Guv Bob wrote: What type of soil do you have in Long Beach? Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Grass roots don't really grow much below 2" anyways. Just look at rolls of sod. They certainly don't come 2" thick (with soil). Lawns need almost daily watering when the daily high temp reaches 80 unless except on overcast days - then maybe you can go 4 days without water. This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft. Forget aerating. Have a yard of black earth / top-soil delivered and rake it evenly all over, and throw in some grass seed while you're at it. THAT is by far the most accepted way to deal with poor sub-soil conditions without completely replacing the top 4" of soil. And then you need to water. But you haven't said anything about your ability to irrigate this patch of grass. What municipal water restrictions are you under currently - now and for the next few months? Thanks, HG. Only restrictions so far are what I do anyway - no watering between 9am-5pm or hose down sideways, etc. Unfortunately, the talk is that the cut back will be 20% less than we used 12 months previous. So folks like us who are very conservative with water will likely end up paying penalties. Meanwhile the swimming pool crowd down the street will only have to stop pumping so much overflow into the gutter. |
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"Bob F" wrote in message ...
H o m e G u y wrote: Guv Bob wrote: What type of soil do you have in Long Beach? Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Grass roots don't really grow much below 2" anyways. Just look at rolls of sod. They certainly don't come 2" thick (with soil). Rolls of sod are sold with only enough soil/roots to survive till thet're layed. Otherwise, the sod farms would quickly run out of soil. I recently cut up a bunch of lawn for a garden with a rented sod cutter. I cut 2+" deep, and still had a tough layer of roots that my old rototiller couldn't easily get through. There was at least 2" of root left, and I had to break it up with a shovel before my tiller could do its job. Of course, since you operate by the stupid theory that you have to water every day if it gets over 80F (in another post), your grass will have no deep roots. They only go deep if they have to to find water. My lawn has no problem with a good watering once a week in 80F weather. When I was testing the soil, grass roots in the good areas went down at least 4 inches. I'm inland in So Calif and we got less than 4 inches of rain last year. Where the grass is established, I seldom have to water more than once every 7-10 days. Over the years, I have watched to see which grass dies and which will go without water, and tried to expand the more drought tolerant. Seat of the pants method, but it works for me. |
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"David E. Ross" wrote in message ...
On 7/20/2014 4:41 PM, Guv Bob wrote [in part]: This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft. Would be nice to have grass there, but being dirt is OK, and not worth renting anything. A few years ago I had to put ground cover on a bare compacted clay hill. I ended up getting a 5/8-inch masonry bit and drilling 4-inch holes about 6-8 inches apart, dropping red apple ice plant pieces in and filling with good soil. Nearly all survived and within a year the hill was covered. While it used to be quite common to plant ice plant on a slope, the recommendation today is very much against that. During a rain, ice plant takes up much water and becomes quite heavy. The roots tend to be shallow and not very extensive. The result is that the ice plant will often pull loose, slide down the hill, and take part of the hill with it. I am very sensitive about proper planting of slopes since the hill in my back yard has slipped twice. The second time, the repair cost almost four times what I paid for my house; my grandchildren will make the last payment on the federal disaster loan. No, there is no such thing as insurance against a slope failing; and the repairs are never guaranteed. Grape vines are very good on a hill; they have very tough, deep roots and generally do not care how poor is the soil. Alone, African daisies or ivy (English or Algerian) are not good because their roots tend to form a mat that can become a weak layer; African daisies and ivy mixed together, however, are excellent on a hill because those mats are at different depths and tend to be less concentrated. According to the grading experts in my county's public works agency, trees on a hill can be bad. In a wind, they rock back and forth, breaking up the soil around the bases of the trunks. With a major rain storm, that becomes a path for a large amount of water to funnel down to the subsoil. Depending on their alignment, this can lubricate the boundary between soil and subsoil and trigger a slide. On the other hand, shrubs are okay. Good to know, David. Grapes sounds like a great idea. Any particular varieties to get or stay away from? Or other types of plants on a slope? |
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Guv Bob wrote:
.... When I was testing the soil, grass roots in the good areas went down at least 4 inches. I'm inland in So Calif and we got less than 4 inches of rain last year. Where the grass is established, I seldom have to water more than once every 7-10 days. Over the years, I have watched to see which grass dies and which will go without water, and tried to expand the more drought tolerant. Seat of the pants method, but it works for me. note that most grassed do not die completely in drought conditions but will go dormant. songbird |
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On 7/20/2014 11:34 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote in message ... On 7/20/2014 4:41 PM, Guv Bob wrote [in part]: This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft. Would be nice to have grass there, but being dirt is OK, and not worth renting anything. A few years ago I had to put ground cover on a bare compacted clay hill. I ended up getting a 5/8-inch masonry bit and drilling 4-inch holes about 6-8 inches apart, dropping red apple ice plant pieces in and filling with good soil. Nearly all survived and within a year the hill was covered. While it used to be quite common to plant ice plant on a slope, the recommendation today is very much against that. During a rain, ice plant takes up much water and becomes quite heavy. The roots tend to be shallow and not very extensive. The result is that the ice plant will often pull loose, slide down the hill, and take part of the hill with it. I am very sensitive about proper planting of slopes since the hill in my back yard has slipped twice. The second time, the repair cost almost four times what I paid for my house; my grandchildren will make the last payment on the federal disaster loan. No, there is no such thing as insurance against a slope failing; and the repairs are never guaranteed. Grape vines are very good on a hill; they have very tough, deep roots and generally do not care how poor is the soil. Alone, African daisies or ivy (English or Algerian) are not good because their roots tend to form a mat that can become a weak layer; African daisies and ivy mixed together, however, are excellent on a hill because those mats are at different depths and tend to be less concentrated. According to the grading experts in my county's public works agency, trees on a hill can be bad. In a wind, they rock back and forth, breaking up the soil around the bases of the trunks. With a major rain storm, that becomes a path for a large amount of water to funnel down to the subsoil. Depending on their alignment, this can lubricate the boundary between soil and subsoil and trigger a slide. On the other hand, shrubs are okay. Good to know, David. Grapes sounds like a great idea. Any particular varieties to get or stay away from? Or other types of plants on a slope? Almost any variety of grape is okay. Choose something you will use. Just be sure you have sturdy supports since grape vines -- even without fruit -- can be quite heavy. See my http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_grapes.html for how I support my grape vines. Also, ground cover is still necessary to prevent surface erosion. Also, do not overplant. Last year, I filled a very large pail in one picking from only one vine. The first time my hill failed, I had a single grape vine in the middle. While the hill slid on both sides, the vine and the part of the hill below it did not move. Unfortunately, the vine had to be removed to repair the hill. I then planted two grape vines. The hill failed again 13 years later, between the vines. Now I have three grape vines. If the hill ever fails again, my house goes up for sale "as is". -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean, see http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
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On 7/20/2014 11:31 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
When I was testing the soil, grass roots in the good areas went down at least 4 inches. I'm inland in So Calif and we got less than 4 inches of rain last year. Where the grass is established, I seldom have to water more than once every 7-10 days. Over the years, I have watched to see which grass dies and which will go without water, and tried to expand the more drought tolerant. Seat of the pants method, but it works for me. You, Higgs Boson, and I are all in southern California. Higgs is coastal (near Santa Monica Bay), and I am in what the National Weather Service calls a coastal valley (near Thousand Oaks and the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area). Where are you? -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean, see http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
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"David E. Ross" wrote:
You, Higgs Boson, and I are all in southern California. Higgs is coastal (near Santa Monica Bay), and I am in what the National Weather Service calls a coastal valley (near Thousand Oaks and the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area). Where are you? I've already told you where he lives. Long Beach. |
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"David E. Ross" wrote in message ...
On 7/20/2014 11:31 PM, Guv Bob wrote: When I was testing the soil, grass roots in the good areas went down at least 4 inches. I'm inland in So Calif and we got less than 4 inches of rain last year. Where the grass is established, I seldom have to water more than once every 7-10 days. Over the years, I have watched to see which grass dies and which will go without water, and tried to expand the more drought tolerant. Seat of the pants method, but it works for me. You, Higgs Boson, and I are all in southern California. Higgs is coastal (near Santa Monica Bay), and I am in what the National Weather Service calls a coastal valley (near Thousand Oaks and the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area). Where are you? N. San Diego County, about 15 miles inland. |
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"H o m e G u y" H o m e @ g u y . c o m wrote in message ...
"David E. Ross" wrote: You, Higgs Boson, and I are all in southern California. Higgs is coastal (near Santa Monica Bay), and I am in what the National Weather Service calls a coastal valley (near Thousand Oaks and the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area). Where are you? I've already told you where he lives. Long Beach. Why did you guess Long Beach? |
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