Lawn-Boy mower
 

Looking to buy a new walk behind. Saw a LB at HD that had what I wanted
but on the carton were the words"assembled in mexico". I assume all the
parts were made in the US? LB is owned by Toro located in MN.
John
Saint Charles,MO

"John Prokovich" wrote in message
...
Looking to buy a new walk behind. Saw a LB at HD that had what I wanted
but on the carton were the words"assembled in mexico". I assume all the
parts were made in the US? LB is owned by Toro located in MN.
John
Saint Charles,MO


Assume nothing in this day and age. But let me ask - which would you
prefer - that it be made in Mexico - or in the USA by illegal Mexican
immigrants ?

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:23:29 -0600, John Prokovich wrote:

Looking to buy a new walk behind. Saw a LB at HD that had what I wanted
but on the carton were the words"assembled in mexico". I assume all the
parts were made in the US? LB is owned by Toro located in MN. John
Saint Charles,MO

I know the very mower that you speak of. I picked one of these up slightly
used and rather cheap. As far as I can tell, these are mostly american
made but as far as being made by toro is just a dream. They have been
"licensed" by toro and most likely made by mdt. This was told to me by my
local toro dealer. The toro and lawnboys from home depo are really the
very same mower made by the very same plant. All that seems to be
different is the color of the machines and the motors. The lawnboy has a
honda and I'm unsure what the toro has. The honda motor was the reason I
bought the lawnboy. I like having spare motors around if my commercial
honda goes tits up on me for some reason.

Things that I don't like about the lawnboy a
1 The stupid handle bar. It's super cheap metal. The lawnboy is set up so
you can step on a bar that makes it so you can fold the handle up as to
get to the bagger. This is a terrible design. My handle is already bent.

2 The rear drive wheels are plastic. When you have a metal drive gear and
plastic wheel gear, things tend to get striped real quick. I've replaced
the left wheel already.

Understandably the issues I have with this mower may not be issues that
home owners would have. I'm rather abusive to this machine. I use it to do
my thatching mows (bagging the crumbs after a thatching job), or mowing
two foot tall grass with the side discharge. I must admit that the honda
motor starts on the first pull everytime.

--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:56:48 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:


"John Prokovich" wrote in message
...
Looking to buy a new walk behind. Saw a LB at HD that had what I wanted
but on the carton were the words"assembled in mexico". I assume all the
parts were made in the US? LB is owned by Toro located in MN. John
Saint Charles,MO


Assume nothing in this day and age. But let me ask - which would you
prefer - that it be made in Mexico - or in the USA by illegal Mexican
immigrants ?

I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made in
china.

--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

"Timothy" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:56:48 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:


"John Prokovich" wrote in message
...
Looking to buy a new walk behind. Saw a LB at HD that had what I wanted
but on the carton were the words"assembled in mexico". I assume all
the
parts were made in the US? LB is owned by Toro located in MN. John
Saint Charles,MO


Assume nothing in this day and age. But let me ask - which would you
prefer - that it be made in Mexico - or in the USA by illegal Mexican
immigrants ?

I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made in
china.


What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish at this
point.

Happy Year of the Rooster

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:14:46 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:
I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made in
china.


What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish at
this point.

Happy Year of the Rooster

At this point in time, the chinese goverment holds over 40% of our debt.
At this point china has taken over more of our manufacturing jobs than all
of south america combined. Soon we will have to learn chinese just to do
business in this global market. China will be the next global super power
and we will be the ones to fund their abillity to become that. At least
mexico is a democracy (for what it's worth), but yet we ship millions of
dollars to a communist country everyday. Wasn't communism the enemy just
15 years ago? Don't we still punish cuba for being communist still to this
day? I just doesn't make sense to me to be anti-mexican and pro-chinese.

--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

Timothy wrote:
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:14:46 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:

I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made in
china.



What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish at
this point.

Happy Year of the Rooster


At this point in time, the chinese goverment holds over 40% of our debt.
At this point china has taken over more of our manufacturing jobs than all
of south america combined. Soon we will have to learn chinese just to do
business in this global market. China will be the next global super power
and we will be the ones to fund their abillity to become that. At least
mexico is a democracy (for what it's worth), but yet we ship millions of
dollars to a communist country everyday. Wasn't communism the enemy just
15 years ago? Don't we still punish cuba for being communist still to this
day? I just doesn't make sense to me to be anti-mexican and pro-chinese.

20 years ago a westerner would have been called a liberal pinko fag for
doing business the way we do with China. Now they have the money and the
power so you better cower down to their wants because the USA is toast
economically. They can now rule the world, which is something that 'W'
wants to do but is doing a very pathetic job of it. Wait till the
Chinese think the time is right. They will pull the rug off from under
our economy and you will have to be a Chinese slave or a western
'terrorist' freedom fighter.

"Timothy" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:14:46 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:
I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made in
china.


What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish at
this point.

Happy Year of the Rooster

At this point in time, the chinese goverment holds over 40% of our debt.
At this point china has taken over more of our manufacturing jobs than all
of south america combined.

We openned the door to them about 8 or 10 years ago (forget the name of the
treaty) so it's not their fault.

Soon we will have to learn chinese just to do
business in this global market.

Like we have insisted that the other countries learn English to survive in
the past. Now it's somebody elses turn - sounds fair to me.

China will be the next global super power
and we will be the ones to fund their abillity to become that. At least
mexico is a democracy (for what it's worth), but yet we ship millions of
dollars to a communist country everyday. Wasn't communism the enemy just
15 years ago? Don't we still punish cuba for being communist still to this
day? I just doesn't make sense to me to be anti-mexican and pro-chinese.

It doesn't make sense to me to be anti-communist to begin with. Actually I
think it's our "capitalism" vs their "socialism". But since we have more
murders than any other country and more lawsuits and more lawyers and weaker
school systems and more people trying to make it on "networking" than
talent - I can't feel too superior to some other approach. Plus our society
is becoming more and more socialistic and less and less capitalist every
day - and BTW aren't the Chinese just being capitalistic in taking advantage
of an open market ?

I never could understand why we are being pricks to Cuba.

"Srgnt Billko" wrote in message
...

"Timothy" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:14:46 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:
I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made in
china.


What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish at
this point.

Happy Year of the Rooster

At this point in time, the chinese goverment holds over 40% of our debt.
At this point china has taken over more of our manufacturing jobs than
all
of south america combined.

We openned the door to them about 8 or 10 years ago (forget the name of
the
treaty) so it's not their fault.

Soon we will have to learn chinese just to do
business in this global market.

Like we have insisted that the other countries learn English to survive in
the past. Now it's somebody elses turn - sounds fair to me.

China will be the next global super power
and we will be the ones to fund their abillity to become that. At least
mexico is a democracy (for what it's worth), but yet we ship millions of
dollars to a communist country everyday. Wasn't communism the enemy just
15 years ago? Don't we still punish cuba for being communist still to
this
day? I just doesn't make sense to me to be anti-mexican and pro-chinese.

It doesn't make sense to me to be anti-communist to begin with. Actually
I
think it's our "capitalism" vs their "socialism". But since we have more
murders than any other country and more lawsuits and more lawyers and
weaker
school systems and more people trying to make it on "networking" than
talent - I can't feel too superior to some other approach. Plus our
society
is becoming more and more socialistic and less and less capitalist every
day - and BTW aren't the Chinese just being capitalistic in taking
advantage
of an open market ?




Don't forget that even poor people in the United States demand and get the
basic rights of cell phones, cable TV with HBO, game boys, CD players for
their rap and hip-hop, Cadillacs, air conditioning, computers, health
insurance, and $300 tennis shoes.

No one wants to work when the government provides it all to you anyway.

This country is going down the drain and it is all our own fault. China is
laughing as they clean our clock and watch us self-destruct.

Greedy and lazy American pigs is pretty much right on.

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 04:41:35 +0000, Oscar_Lives wrote:


"Srgnt Billko" wrote in message
...

"Timothy" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:14:46 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:
I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made
in china.


What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish
at this point.

Happy Year of the Rooster

At this point in time, the chinese goverment holds over 40% of our
debt. At this point china has taken over more of our manufacturing jobs
than all
of south america combined.

We openned the door to them about 8 or 10 years ago (forget the name of
the
treaty) so it's not their fault.

Soon we will have to learn chinese just to do
business in this global market.

Like we have insisted that the other countries learn English to survive
in the past. Now it's somebody elses turn - sounds fair to me.

China will be the next global super power
and we will be the ones to fund their abillity to become that. At least
mexico is a democracy (for what it's worth), but yet we ship millions
of dollars to a communist country everyday. Wasn't communism the enemy
just 15 years ago? Don't we still punish cuba for being communist still
to this
day? I just doesn't make sense to me to be anti-mexican and
pro-chinese.

It doesn't make sense to me to be anti-communist to begin with.
Actually I
think it's our "capitalism" vs their "socialism". But since we have
more murders than any other country and more lawsuits and more lawyers
and weaker
school systems and more people trying to make it on "networking" than
talent - I can't feel too superior to some other approach. Plus our
society
is becoming more and more socialistic and less and less capitalist every
day - and BTW aren't the Chinese just being capitalistic in taking
advantage
of an open market ?




Don't forget that even poor people in the United States demand and get the
basic rights of cell phones, cable TV with HBO, game boys, CD players for
their rap and hip-hop, Cadillacs, air conditioning, computers, health
insurance, and $300 tennis shoes.

No one wants to work when the government provides it all to you anyway.

This country is going down the drain and it is all our own fault. China
is laughing as they clean our clock and watch us self-destruct.

Greedy and lazy American pigs is pretty much right on.

Sounds like someone has selfimage issues 'round here 80) .....
Don't get me wrong, America has dropped the ball, but IMHO, it's just
plain silly to blame the american people as a whole. Poor people want what
the middle class have and corporate america say's we all need. The
American worker is one of the most efficent, hardest laboring workers on
the planet. We work longer hours with less vaction time than any other
industrialized country in the world.

I was told that you can tell how good a country is by how they treat their
elderly and their children. America abandons their old and under educates
their young. This is the root of our social ills imho.

Corprate America has abandon America and sold us to the highest bidder.
This is shown to use by the wal-marts and the big box monsters. There was
a time in this country were that wasn't true at all, but now were
exporting our greatest minds abroad along with our innovation.... But I
digress. We will have to agree to disagree.


--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

"Timothy" wrote in message
news:1108402149.4a1047ddab01c1fd32ba531d7bfa926b@t eranews...
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 04:41:35 +0000, Oscar_Lives wrote:


"Srgnt Billko" wrote in message
...

"Timothy" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:14:46 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:
I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made
in china.


What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the
fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish
at this point.

Happy Year of the Rooster

At this point in time, the chinese goverment holds over 40% of our
debt. At this point china has taken over more of our manufacturing
jobs
than all
of south america combined.

We openned the door to them about 8 or 10 years ago (forget the name of
the
treaty) so it's not their fault.

Soon we will have to learn chinese just to do
business in this global market.

Like we have insisted that the other countries learn English to survive
in the past. Now it's somebody elses turn - sounds fair to me.

China will be the next global super power
and we will be the ones to fund their abillity to become that. At
least
mexico is a democracy (for what it's worth), but yet we ship millions
of dollars to a communist country everyday. Wasn't communism the enemy
just 15 years ago? Don't we still punish cuba for being communist
still
to this
day? I just doesn't make sense to me to be anti-mexican and
pro-chinese.

It doesn't make sense to me to be anti-communist to begin with.
Actually I
think it's our "capitalism" vs their "socialism". But since we have
more murders than any other country and more lawsuits and more lawyers
and weaker
school systems and more people trying to make it on "networking" than
talent - I can't feel too superior to some other approach. Plus our
society
is becoming more and more socialistic and less and less capitalist
every
day - and BTW aren't the Chinese just being capitalistic in taking
advantage
of an open market ?




Don't forget that even poor people in the United States demand and get
the
basic rights of cell phones, cable TV with HBO, game boys, CD players
for
their rap and hip-hop, Cadillacs, air conditioning, computers, health
insurance, and $300 tennis shoes.

No one wants to work when the government provides it all to you anyway.

This country is going down the drain and it is all our own fault. China
is laughing as they clean our clock and watch us self-destruct.

Greedy and lazy American pigs is pretty much right on.

Sounds like someone has selfimage issues 'round here 80) .....
Don't get me wrong, America has dropped the ball, but IMHO, it's just
plain silly to blame the american people as a whole. Poor people want what
the middle class have and corporate america say's we all need. The
American worker is one of the most efficent, hardest laboring workers on
the planet. We work longer hours with less vaction time than any other
industrialized country in the world.

snip --

Don't make me laugh - "most efficient, hardest laboring" - LOL I can show
you dozens of the least competent, most likely to bs you workers on the
planet. My favorite is when I ask a specific question and get a reply, "As
far as I know it is." Just lip service that helps nothing and just wastes
time. You can get that a dozen times per day around here. You can do it,
we can help ? Ask the "associate" a question about a product and he or she
starts reading the label back to you. WTH do they think I need help with -
reading ?

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:44:33 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:
snip --

Don't make me laugh - "most efficient, hardest laboring" - LOL I can
show you dozens of the least competent, most likely to bs you workers on
the planet. My favorite is when I ask a specific question and get a
reply, "As far as I know it is." Just lip service that helps nothing and
just wastes time. You can get that a dozen times per day around here.
You can do it, we can help ? Ask the "associate" a question about a
product and he or she starts reading the label back to you. WTH do they
think I need help with - reading ?

So your not a hard working and/or efficient worker? Or are you just
special? As my grandma would say, it's useless to argue with the facts.
Americans invented the 40 hour work week and many of us work more than
that. Americans invented the assembly line and the modern manufacturing
model which has been the engine of development for the whole world. We
make the best tools, the best cars, the highest grade steel...ect. The
american corps are striping the machines out of the factories and are
selling it off to the highest bidding third world nation.

Sorry that the big box store workers can answer your questions. It's not
in the best intrest of home depo to have an informed public, their in the
shit business. They sell you cheap shit and they don't give a shit about
you. Try shoping more locally for your products and be willing to pay more
for competent customer service.

Before you send off some post refuting my position, remember this:
If you don't like it here, if you don't like the workers here, feel free
to get on a plane and make a better life somewhere else. I'm sure china
will great you with open arms ;0)

--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

"Timothy" wrote in message
news:1108429592.3c4805c7d41d512ed79dafd0378aa775@t eranews...


As my grandma would say, it's useless to argue with the facts.
We
make the best tools, the best cars, the highest grade steel...ect.

Are you smoking crack?
US cars are shit compared to even the Koreans.
US tools suck compared to Japans and even Europeans.
Japan's steel is much better and cheaper than ours.


The
american corps are striping the machines out of the factories and are
selling it off to the highest bidding third world nation.

Where people aren't so ****ing greedy to demand $50,000 plus benefits a year
for a no-skill job like American workers do.


Sorry that the big box store workers can answer your questions. It's not
in the best intrest of home depo to have an informed public, their in the
shit business. They sell you cheap shit and they don't give a shit about
you. Try shoping more locally for your products and be willing to pay more
for competent customer service.

Pay more for poor service and no selection is more like it.




Before you send off some post refuting my position, remember this:
If you don't like it here, if you don't like the workers here, feel free
to get on a plane and make a better life somewhere else. I'm sure china
will great you with open arms ;0)

Yeah, I could double my salary if I wanted a transfer to China. Too bad I
don't like cat.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:57:39 +0000, Oscar_Lives wrote:
Are you smoking crack?
US cars are shit compared to even the Koreans. US tools suck compared to
Japans and even Europeans. Japan's steel is much better and cheaper than
ours.

Umm, so what do you drive? Many forein car have major troubles after
100,000 mile while american cars are still chugging along. Your so far off
the map about japanese steel. The coke and coal that they get mostly comes
from china and it has so much sulfer in it that it creates **** poor
metal. Most all high quality steel in japan comes from our coke and ore.
You can try to argue, but the best steel in the world comes from usx and
weirton steel.


Where people aren't so ****ing greedy to demand $50,000 plus benefits a
year for a no-skill job like American workers do.

And what is soo bad that someone wants to be middle class and own their
own home, send their kids to college..etc? And *where* the hell can I find
one of these $50,000 a year no skilled jobs? Well? When the american
worker's pay has risen 20% in the past 30 years while the ceo's pay has
risen 2,600% in the past 30 year, I just don't see the room for these
magical 50K a year non-skilled jobs.


Pay more for poor service and no selection is more like it.

I get my tools from local sources and the selection is just as good if not
better that the big box stores. It's truely amazing how well you can talk
out your ass like that. Maybe you could take your show out on the road....
see if you can earn 50K a year plus bennies doing it...lol


Yeah, I could double my salary if I wanted a transfer to China. Too bad I
don't like cat.

So what is it that you do in this world where the chinese would pay you
double than you make here? Please don't leave me hanging, I just got to
know. How much you making now? I highly doubt that you would dare answer
that question or you would tip your hand and show us how your BS'ing
yourself and the rest of us.

Have a nice trip, hope you don't get jet lag too bad on your flight to
china.

--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

"Timothy" wrote in message
news:1108429592.3c4805c7d41d512ed79dafd0378aa775@t eranews...
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:44:33 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:
snip --

Don't make me laugh - "most efficient, hardest laboring" - LOL I can
show you dozens of the least competent, most likely to bs you workers on
the planet. My favorite is when I ask a specific question and get a
reply, "As far as I know it is." Just lip service that helps nothing
and
just wastes time. You can get that a dozen times per day around here.
You can do it, we can help ? Ask the "associate" a question about a
product and he or she starts reading the label back to you. WTH do they
think I need help with - reading ?

So your not a hard working and/or efficient worker? Or are you just
special?

I'm special - retired - when I was working we were #1 - it's you youngsters
who have screwed it up.

As my grandma would say, it's useless to argue with the facts.
Americans invented the 40 hour work week and many of us work more than
that. Americans invented the assembly line and the modern manufacturing
model which has been the engine of development for the whole world.

Make that "HAD BEEN" - as MY grandma said, nothing lasts forever - and the
sooner you see the FACT of change the better.

We
make the best tools, the best cars, the highest grade steel...ect. The
american corps are striping the machines out of the factories and are
selling it off to the highest bidding third world nation.

Sorry that the big box store workers can answer your questions. It's not
in the best intrest of home depo to have an informed public, their in the
shit business. They sell you cheap shit and they don't give a shit about
you. Try shoping more locally for your products and be willing to pay more
for competent customer service.


It might help you to know that my son and I probably do more buying in a
month than most consumer's do in a year - and I was buying long before Home
Depot came on the scene - but most of their product is the same that is in
the local stores. Of the dozens of local stores I can only think of one
that has more helpful personel.

Before you send off some post refuting my position, remember this:
If you don't like it here, if you don't like the workers here, feel free
to get on a plane and make a better life somewhere else.

Tell you what - I'll go to China if you go to Chile or wherever the fruit
you are eating came from.
I'm not going to let incompetent workers displace me as long as I can buy
imported products right here.

"Timothy" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:57:39 +0000, Oscar_Lives wrote:

Umm, so what do you drive? Many forein car have major troubles after
100,000 mile while american cars are still chugging along. Your so far off
the map about japanese steel. The coke and coal that they get mostly comes
from china and it has so much sulfer in it that it creates **** poor
metal. Most all high quality steel in japan comes from our coke and ore.
You can try to argue, but the best steel in the world comes from usx and
weirton steel.

Bullshit. Everyone who has been awake for the last two decades knows that
the quality of US automobiles has been playing catch-up to the Japanese and
Koreans for years.

Japanese steel beats the crap out of US's for quality and production costs.
Why do you think so many US steel mills are closed? They couldn't compete
against the Japanese.

Pull your finger out of your ass and look around and read some.




Where people aren't so ****ing greedy to demand $50,000 plus benefits a
year for a no-skill job like American workers do.

And what is soo bad that someone wants to be middle class and own their
own home, send their kids to college..etc? And *where* the hell can I find
one of these $50,000 a year no skilled jobs? Well? When the american
worker's pay has risen 20% in the past 30 years while the ceo's pay has
risen 2,600% in the past 30 year, I just don't see the room for these
magical 50K a year non-skilled jobs.

Ha! No-skilled UAW jobs that average over $50k a year are what I am talking
about. However, you are right, they are getting harder and harder to find,
as these no skilled jobs go straight to mexico, china, and other countries
that have workers willing to work hard at high quality and not be so ****ing
greedy.




Pay more for poor service and no selection is more like it.

I get my tools from local sources and the selection is just as good if not
better that the big box stores. It's truely amazing how well you can talk
out your ass like that. Maybe you could take your show out on the road....
see if you can earn 50K a year plus bennies doing it...lol

Maybe I could get idiots like you who believe the drivel that spews out of
their shop steward's asses to pay me 50K plus bennies. You seem to be quite
the idiot who parts easily with money and believes that shit doesn't stink.




Yeah, I could double my salary if I wanted a transfer to China. Too bad
I
don't like cat.

So what is it that you do in this world where the chinese would pay you
double than you make here? Please don't leave me hanging, I just got to
know. How much you making now? I highly doubt that you would dare answer
that question or you would tip your hand and show us how your BS'ing
yourself and the rest of us.

Industrial engineer with a hard-earned master's degree making $68k a year.
My US company would pay me double (tax free) to go to china to help start up
more plants.

Go suck on this BS. Take your head out of your steward's ass and look
around and see what is going on in the world.



Have a nice trip, hope you don't get jet lag too bad on your flight to
china.

Go **** yourself and keep believing what your steward tells you that the US
is all powerful and that you are worth so much to him and your employer,
even though you have no skills.

I'll bet you think the government owes you free health care, retirement, and
air jordans.


--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 04:16:12 +0000, Oscar_Lives wrote:

Bullshit. Everyone who has been awake for the last two decades knows that
the quality of US automobiles has been playing catch-up to the Japanese
and Koreans for years.
Japanese steel beats the crap out of US's for quality and production
costs. Why do you think so many US steel mills are closed? They couldn't
compete against the Japanese.
Pull your finger out of your ass and look around and read some.

Cars:
The auto market was/has/is driven my American inovation and technology.
Feel free to yell about it untill your blue in the face, but you just
can't change the facts.

Steel:
Japan is making high quality steel.....With our raw materials. The
japanese do not have enough ore and coke to support an industry. The U.S
steel markets are being hurt by many different factors. Some of which are
the fact that India and China are state subsidizing steel production at a
industry loss. In the mid 1990's, the asian markets crashed and we (U.S.)
lost market share in exports due to the fact that asia wasn't buying.
After the market crash, the asian steel markets went into over drive and
they started flooding the markets with cheap, low quality, goverment
subsidized steel. U.S corps bought up this cheap steel and started
producing low quality goods. The u.s domestic markets couldn't compete any
longer due to the lower quality demands of the corps.

Sidenote... My wife had a '99 honda civic. She rear ended a ford focus at
25 miles an hour. The honda is completly totaled (I have the photos),
while the ford needed a 300 dollar bumper replacement. The hood of the
folded up like a lawn chair. Great quality there...ppffttt.

Ha! No-skilled UAW jobs that average over $50k a year are what I am
talking about. However, you are right, they are getting harder and harder
to find, as these no skilled jobs go straight to mexico, china, and other
countries that have workers willing to work hard at high quality and not
be so ****ing greedy.

This is just a crazy statement. The ceo of GM deserves 400 times the pay
of the factory floor workers? My father worked for pontiac back in the
1970's after he got home from the war. It's not an easy job, these guys
don't just sit there and watch the cars roll off the lines themselves. The
models change every year along with many of the parts. This by no means is
a "low" skilled job. Guess that you would be o.k. with a bunch of low
skilled, non-trained, low paid monkeys putting your car together for you.
You feel free to put your family in one of those..... Go buy a Kia then.


Maybe I could get idiots like you who believe the drivel that spews out of
their shop steward's asses to pay me 50K plus bennies. You seem to be
quite the idiot who parts easily with money and believes that shit doesn't
stink.

So your lossing your arguement, so you pull out the name calling. lol. Did
you not see my sig at the bottom of my posts? I'm a dba, self employed man
with no shop steward. From the way you speak, sounds like you just missed
out becoming one and now you forever ****ed about it.

I don't part with my money easily at all. I shop as locally as possible
and do my best not to support business that could care less about my
community. When I shop locally, more of my money stays in my community and
is spread through out my community again and again. My city get's more
sales tax revenue and more of my local citizens have employment, lest we
forget who really drives the economy...Small Business!

Industrial engineer with a hard-earned master's degree making $68k a year.
My US company would pay me double (tax free) to go to china to help
start up more plants.
Go suck on this BS. Take your head out of your steward's ass and look
around and see what is going on in the world.

Again you seem too slow to get the point. Your "US company would pay"
would pay you double.... not the chinese economy. Your company would pay
you well to help dismantlethe American manufacturing base.. Woo Hoo. If
you got on a plane today, flew over there and tried to make a new start
with your education, you most certantly wouldn't make more than 68K us.
Let alone double abnd that's a fact. So go bust out some straws and slurp
up your own BS 'cause I ain't having it.


Go **** yourself and keep believing what your steward tells you that the
US is all powerful and that you are worth so much to him and your
employer, even though you have no skills.
I'll bet you think the government owes you free health care, retirement,
and air jordans.


If I could **** myself, I highly doubt that I'd ever leave my house...lol.
Hummor aside tho, I'm not listening to any shop stewards, I'm reading and
watching the news. No wonder we are so far off track in this country when
it's full of un-patriotic, apathitic workers like yourself. Your distain
of your own country and it's people is a bit shocking from someone from
Jefferson City Mo. Do your neighbors know how un-patriotic you are, or
they those "un-skilled" workers that you hate so much?

Feel free to reply if you wish, but really I'm done with you. This thread
is way off topic atm and arguing with you is just pointless. Here's a link
that sums all of this up:

http://www.7uh.com/uploader/uploads/retarded.jpg

Enjoy your day Oscar.

--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

And what is so bad that someone wants to be middle class and own their
own home, send their kids to college..etc? And *where* the hell can I
find
one of these $50,000 a year no skilled jobs? Well? When the american
worker's pay has risen 20% in the past 30 years while the ceo's pay has
risen 2,600% in the past 30 year, I just don't see the room for these
magical 50K a year non-skilled jobs.


Ha! No-skilled UAW jobs that average over $50k a year are what I am
talking
about. However, you are right, they are getting harder and harder to
find,
as these no skilled jobs go straight to mexico, china, and other
countries
that have workers willing to work hard at high quality and not be so
****ing
greedy.


Why don't you answer the question you traitor ****!!!!!!!!!!!!
How DO you justify workers wages have risen 20% while CEO's pay has
risen 2600% (I gotta check these numbers) ? I do know that CEO's and
their minions pay has risen by a far greater percentage than the working
American.

YOU ARE A TRAITOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"GFRfan" wrote in message
...
And what is so bad that someone wants to be middle class and own their
own home, send their kids to college..etc? And *where* the hell can I
find
one of these $50,000 a year no skilled jobs? Well? When the american
worker's pay has risen 20% in the past 30 years while the ceo's pay has
risen 2,600% in the past 30 year, I just don't see the room for these
magical 50K a year non-skilled jobs.


Ha! No-skilled UAW jobs that average over $50k a year are what I am
talking
about. However, you are right, they are getting harder and harder to
find,
as these no skilled jobs go straight to mexico, china, and other
countries
that have workers willing to work hard at high quality and not be so
****ing
greedy.


Why don't you answer the question you traitor ****!!!!!!!!!!!!
How DO you justify workers wages have risen 20% while CEO's pay has risen
2600% (I gotta check these numbers) ? I do know that CEO's and their
minions pay has risen by a far greater percentage than the working
American.

YOU ARE A TRAITOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, that hurts. You called me a traitor! I'm crushed.

Yeah, CEOs are ****ing greedy. What do you want me to do about it?

I can't justify it. Can you?

"Timothy" wrote in message
news:1108489720.b4af3a4b99fa9c2d87980189d7e6e4ff@t eranews...
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 04:16:12 +0000, Oscar_Lives wrote:

(snip)

No wonder we are so far off track in this country when
it's full of un-patriotic, apathitic workers like yourself. --
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com


Sounds like we agree on at least one thing: this country is ****ed up.

I wonder if the U.S would be any better our schools could teach our
children how to spell better and make good use of technology such as spell
checkers?

As for the CEOs making more money, I guess that is part of the Golden Rule:
"He who has the gold makes the rule".

Srgnt Billko wrote:
"John Prokovich" wrote in message
...

Looking to buy a new walk behind. Saw a LB at HD that had what I wanted
but on the carton were the words"assembled in mexico". I assume all the
parts were made in the US? LB is owned by Toro located in MN.
John
Saint Charles,MO



Assume nothing in this day and age. But let me ask - which would you
prefer - that it be made in Mexico - or in the USA by illegal Mexican
immigrants ?

I'd prefer it be mnade in the USA by a company where everyone from the
hiring manager to the CEO would get hauled into jail when they hire
illegals.

Srgnt Billko wrote:

"Timothy" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:56:48 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:


"John Prokovich" wrote in message
...

Looking to buy a new walk behind. Saw a LB at HD that had what I wanted
but on the carton were the words"assembled in mexico". I assume all

the

parts were made in the US? LB is owned by Toro located in MN. John
Saint Charles,MO



Assume nothing in this day and age. But let me ask - which would you
prefer - that it be made in Mexico - or in the USA by illegal Mexican
immigrants ?

I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made in
china.



What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish at this
point.


They are growing too fast and the result is that too much of our
hard-earned money is going over to China and it is getting used to build
up their military, and they aren't buying anything of ours except planes
from Boing, and even then they want us to export the technology to China
so that they can steal it and incorporate it into their own
manufacturing of civilian and military aviation industry. They steal
all our technology until they can build it themselves, then they won't
need us anymore except to sell stuff to us.

We won't have any money to buy crap from China with if we all end up
working in Wal-Mart.

For the price you mentioned in your posting on AMerican made tools, go
to Sears and buy a Crafstman mower - get there early on Saturday morning
between 7 and 10 AM and you can usually save more. Forget the extended
warranty - they rarely honor it and if you take care of your mower you
won't need the warranty work.

John Prokovich wrote:
Looking to buy a new walk behind. Saw a LB at HD that had what I wanted
but on the carton were the words"assembled in mexico". I assume all the
parts were made in the US? LB is owned by Toro located in MN.
John
Saint Charles,MO

Timothy wrote:

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:14:46 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:

I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made in
china.



What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish at
this point.

Happy Year of the Rooster


At this point in time, the chinese goverment holds over 40% of our debt.
At this point china has taken over more of our manufacturing jobs than all
of south america combined. Soon we will have to learn chinese just to do
business in this global market. China will be the next global super power
and we will be the ones to fund their abillity to become that. At least
mexico is a democracy (for what it's worth), but yet we ship millions of
dollars to a communist country everyday. Wasn't communism the enemy just
15 years ago? Don't we still punish cuba for being communist still to this
day? I just doesn't make sense to me to be anti-mexican and pro-chinese.

Don't you mean being anti-cuban and pro-chinese (or pro-vietnamese)?

And so much for Mexico being pro-democracy - what about how Fox is
sending all his unemployment problems to the US to steal jobs from US
citizens or leagl immigrants so that the money can be sent back to
Mexico to bail out their economy? And what about the lawless zones - up
to 50 miles from the US border - where Americans get kidnapped and held
for ransom, and Mexican drug kingpins who are hiring Mexican Special
FOrces troops to protect them and their drug shipments?

I say **** em all - keep the jobs and the money over here, control
immigration, and license and don't sell out our technology.

Srgnt Billko wrote:

"Timothy" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:14:46 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:

I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made in
china.



What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish at
this point.

Happy Year of the Rooster

At this point in time, the chinese goverment holds over 40% of our debt.
At this point china has taken over more of our manufacturing jobs than all
of south america combined.


We openned the door to them about 8 or 10 years ago (forget the name of the
treaty) so it's not their fault.

Don't keep thinking that it was China alone who wanted that MFN treaty -
it was multinational businesses who realized that China was not only a
big market, but also a great place for doing business - slave labor
workplaces, no environmental or workplace health and safety laws. They
do short-term deals while the Chinese government steals their technology.


Soon we will have to learn chinese just to do
business in this global market.


Like we have insisted that the other countries learn English to survive in
the past. Now it's somebody elses turn - sounds fair to me.


China will be the next global super power
and we will be the ones to fund their abillity to become that. At least
mexico is a democracy (for what it's worth), but yet we ship millions of
dollars to a communist country everyday. Wasn't communism the enemy just
15 years ago? Don't we still punish cuba for being communist still to this
day? I just doesn't make sense to me to be anti-mexican and pro-chinese.


It doesn't make sense to me to be anti-communist to begin with. Actually I
think it's our "capitalism" vs their "socialism". But since we have more
murders than any other country and more lawsuits and more lawyers and weaker
school systems and more people trying to make it on "networking" than
talent - I can't feel too superior to some other approach. Plus our society
is becoming more and more socialistic and less and less capitalist every
day - and BTW aren't the Chinese just being capitalistic in taking advantage
of an open market ?

I never could understand why we are being pricks to Cuba.

Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Srgnt Billko" wrote in message
...

"Timothy" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:14:46 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:

I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made in
china.



What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish at
this point.

Happy Year of the Rooster

At this point in time, the chinese goverment holds over 40% of our debt.
At this point china has taken over more of our manufacturing jobs than
all
of south america combined.

We openned the door to them about 8 or 10 years ago (forget the name of
the
treaty) so it's not their fault.


Soon we will have to learn chinese just to do
business in this global market.

Like we have insisted that the other countries learn English to survive in
the past. Now it's somebody elses turn - sounds fair to me.


China will be the next global super power
and we will be the ones to fund their abillity to become that. At least
mexico is a democracy (for what it's worth), but yet we ship millions of
dollars to a communist country everyday. Wasn't communism the enemy just
15 years ago? Don't we still punish cuba for being communist still to
this
day? I just doesn't make sense to me to be anti-mexican and pro-chinese.

It doesn't make sense to me to be anti-communist to begin with. Actually
I
think it's our "capitalism" vs their "socialism". But since we have more
murders than any other country and more lawsuits and more lawyers and
weaker
school systems and more people trying to make it on "networking" than
talent - I can't feel too superior to some other approach. Plus our
society
is becoming more and more socialistic and less and less capitalist every
day - and BTW aren't the Chinese just being capitalistic in taking
advantage
of an open market ?





Don't forget that even poor people in the United States demand and get the
basic rights of cell phones, cable TV with HBO, game boys, CD players for
their rap and hip-hop, Cadillacs, air conditioning, computers, health
insurance, and $300 tennis shoes.

No one wants to work when the government provides it all to you anyway.

SOrry - those things you mention are not rights - they are wants, except
for A/C in the South and health insurance. And even then many elderly
or disabled people don't have A/C or health insurance - they can't
afford it. I don't know where you get the idead that because Nike
pushes $300 athletic shoes that every kid thinks they are a "right" -
why don't the parents who push "abstinence only" education tell their
kids not to have sex and that they can't have $300 sneakers?

This country is going down the drain and it is all our own fault. China is
laughing as they clean our clock and watch us self-destruct.

Greedy and lazy American pigs is pretty much right on.

It isn't the Americans on Main Street whe are greedy and lazy - it's the
capitalist pigs on Wall Street who are selling us out.

Timothy wrote:

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 04:41:35 +0000, Oscar_Lives wrote:


"Srgnt Billko" wrote in message
...

"Timothy" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:14:46 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:

I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made
in china.



What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the fastest
growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish
at this point.

Happy Year of the Rooster

At this point in time, the chinese goverment holds over 40% of our
debt. At this point china has taken over more of our manufacturing jobs
than all
of south america combined.

We openned the door to them about 8 or 10 years ago (forget the name of
the
treaty) so it's not their fault.


Soon we will have to learn chinese just to do
business in this global market.

Like we have insisted that the other countries learn English to survive
in the past. Now it's somebody elses turn - sounds fair to me.


China will be the next global super power
and we will be the ones to fund their abillity to become that. At least
mexico is a democracy (for what it's worth), but yet we ship millions
of dollars to a communist country everyday. Wasn't communism the enemy
just 15 years ago? Don't we still punish cuba for being communist still
to this
day? I just doesn't make sense to me to be anti-mexican and
pro-chinese.

It doesn't make sense to me to be anti-communist to begin with.
Actually I
think it's our "capitalism" vs their "socialism". But since we have
more murders than any other country and more lawsuits and more lawyers
and weaker
school systems and more people trying to make it on "networking" than
talent - I can't feel too superior to some other approach. Plus our
society
is becoming more and more socialistic and less and less capitalist every
day - and BTW aren't the Chinese just being capitalistic in taking
advantage
of an open market ?




Don't forget that even poor people in the United States demand and get the
basic rights of cell phones, cable TV with HBO, game boys, CD players for
their rap and hip-hop, Cadillacs, air conditioning, computers, health
insurance, and $300 tennis shoes.

No one wants to work when the government provides it all to you anyway.

This country is going down the drain and it is all our own fault. China
is laughing as they clean our clock and watch us self-destruct.

Greedy and lazy American pigs is pretty much right on.


Sounds like someone has selfimage issues 'round here 80) .....
Don't get me wrong, America has dropped the ball, but IMHO, it's just
plain silly to blame the american people as a whole. Poor people want what
the middle class have and corporate america say's we all need. The
American worker is one of the most efficent, hardest laboring workers on
the planet. We work longer hours with less vaction time than any other
industrialized country in the world.

I was told that you can tell how good a country is by how they treat their
elderly and their children. America abandons their old and under educates
their young. This is the root of our social ills imho.

Corprate America has abandon America and sold us to the highest bidder.
This is shown to use by the wal-marts and the big box monsters. There was
a time in this country were that wasn't true at all, but now were
exporting our greatest minds abroad along with our innovation.... But I
digress. We will have to agree to disagree.


And it won't change until we do one of two things:

1) Line up all the greedy capitalist pigs - and the politicians who make
it legal to sell us out - against the wall and shoot em or lynch them
from a tree; or

2) Take the money out of politics and make it really one person + one vote.

Srgnt Billko wrote:

"Timothy" wrote in message
news:1108402149.4a1047ddab01c1fd32ba531d7bfa926b@t eranews...

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 04:41:35 +0000, Oscar_Lives wrote:


"Srgnt Billko" wrote in message
...

"Timothy" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:14:46 +0000, Srgnt Billko wrote:

I personaly would prefer either of those options over it being made
in china.



What do we have against Chinese at this point ? They are the

fastest

growing economic force - seems smarter to learn Chinese than Spanish
at this point.

Happy Year of the Rooster

At this point in time, the chinese goverment holds over 40% of our
debt. At this point china has taken over more of our manufacturing

jobs

than all
of south america combined.

We openned the door to them about 8 or 10 years ago (forget the name of
the
treaty) so it's not their fault.


Soon we will have to learn chinese just to do
business in this global market.

Like we have insisted that the other countries learn English to survive
in the past. Now it's somebody elses turn - sounds fair to me.


China will be the next global super power
and we will be the ones to fund their abillity to become that. At

least

mexico is a democracy (for what it's worth), but yet we ship millions
of dollars to a communist country everyday. Wasn't communism the enemy
just 15 years ago? Don't we still punish cuba for being communist

still

to this
day? I just doesn't make sense to me to be anti-mexican and
pro-chinese.

It doesn't make sense to me to be anti-communist to begin with.
Actually I
think it's our "capitalism" vs their "socialism". But since we have
more murders than any other country and more lawsuits and more lawyers
and weaker
school systems and more people trying to make it on "networking" than
talent - I can't feel too superior to some other approach. Plus our
society
is becoming more and more socialistic and less and less capitalist

every

day - and BTW aren't the Chinese just being capitalistic in taking
advantage
of an open market ?




Don't forget that even poor people in the United States demand and get

the

basic rights of cell phones, cable TV with HBO, game boys, CD players

for

their rap and hip-hop, Cadillacs, air conditioning, computers, health
insurance, and $300 tennis shoes.

No one wants to work when the government provides it all to you anyway.

This country is going down the drain and it is all our own fault. China
is laughing as they clean our clock and watch us self-destruct.

Greedy and lazy American pigs is pretty much right on.

Sounds like someone has selfimage issues 'round here 80) .....
Don't get me wrong, America has dropped the ball, but IMHO, it's just
plain silly to blame the american people as a whole. Poor people want what
the middle class have and corporate america say's we all need. The
American worker is one of the most efficent, hardest laboring workers on
the planet. We work longer hours with less vaction time than any other
industrialized country in the world.


snip --

Don't make me laugh - "most efficient, hardest laboring" - LOL I can show
you dozens of the least competent, most likely to bs you workers on the
planet. My favorite is when I ask a specific question and get a reply, "As
far as I know it is." Just lip service that helps nothing and just wastes
time. You can get that a dozen times per day around here. You can do it,
we can help ? Ask the "associate" a question about a product and he or she
starts reading the label back to you. WTH do they think I need help with -
reading ?

OK - let me ask you this - if you know that you are working in the cheap
and there is absolutely no reason to work harder or smarter because your
job could either go to a Mexican or get outsourced, why would you take
the time to learn the information that you want to know? Isn't that the
responsibility of the employer to teach their employees this info so
that you can be a satisfied customer? About the only thing that
employers teach employees is to be good listeners and validate customer
concerns - because even if you can't get your problem solved, you might
feel better if you think that you are being listened to.

Make it worth my while to learn something about the products so I won't
lose my job to Mexico or China and I might do that. If you don't reward
performance, why should I try and do better? Today any employee who is
the first to show loyalty to their employer is a fool - it's the rare
employer today who won't sell your ass in a heartbeat to make a buck.

That is why I as a consumer take the time to find out which employers
take care of their employees, which make their products in the USA, and
I only buy from them. If I can't find it made in America, it has to be
something that I really need bad, otherwise I go without. I hate
sending my money over to China to build weapons to eventually use
against us.

USENET READER wrote:
I say **** em all - keep the jobs and the money over here, control
immigration, and license and don't sell out our technology.

Agreed. We don't need anything imported except oil, and we can go
take that if need be.

It is what it is.

--
http://NewsReader.Com 30 GB/Month

Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Timothy" wrote in message
news:1108429592.3c4805c7d41d512ed79dafd0378aa775@t eranews...



As my grandma would say, it's useless to argue with the facts.
We
make the best tools, the best cars, the highest grade steel...ect.


Are you smoking crack?
US cars are shit compared to even the Koreans.
US tools suck compared to Japans and even Europeans.
Japan's steel is much better and cheaper than ours.

Sorry - American cars might have been crap compared to foreign cars, but
I have several late 80's and early 90's American-made cars (89 Olds, 90
Pontiac and 92 Ford) that have between 130K and 230K on them and they
run great, look great and I get decent milage on them - between 25MPG
HWY on the Ford Crown Vic to 33MPG HWY on the GM cars.

What tools are you talking about? I bought a Porter-Cable circular saw
the other day and it is a much better tool thn all the crap made in
China - I can see this saw working 50 years from now.

Japan's steel is cheaper and better than ours, because the US steel
industry won't spend the money to invest in new technology - they would
rather invest the same money overseas where the labor costs are lower.

I saw we tax the shit out of foreign capital gains to investors - and
reward investment at home - that way we can get around the GATT and WTO
trade sanctions.


The

american corps are striping the machines out of the factories and are
selling it off to the highest bidding third world nation.


Where people aren't so ****ing greedy to demand $50,000 plus benefits a year
for a no-skill job like American workers do.

Hey numbnuts - you know how much skill it takes to use computerized
machine tools, fabric looms, and other manufacturing equipment? What
the **** makes a CEO worth what they steal from investors when they
don't even save the companies or increase market share?


Sorry that the big box store workers can answer your questions. It's not
in the best intrest of home depo to have an informed public, their in the
shit business. They sell you cheap shit and they don't give a shit about
you. Try shoping more locally for your products and be willing to pay more
for competent customer service.


Pay more for poor service and no selection is more like it.

Actually I get much better service in Ace Harware, Burke Brothers, etc.,
then I do in Home Depot. The small hardware store is where I buy most
all my tools and supplies there, except for speciality stuff, bulk
lumber, shingles and siding. The staff is more knowlegable, and they
are paid better and have better benefits. I like to shop at a place
that treats its employees right and I know that more of my money will
stay in the community.




Before you send off some post refuting my position, remember this:
If you don't like it here, if you don't like the workers here, feel free
to get on a plane and make a better life somewhere else. I'm sure china
will great you with open arms ;0)


Yeah, I could double my salary if I wanted a transfer to China. Too bad I
don't like cat.

No - you couldn't double your salary if you moved to China - you would
probably get paid less money, but your salary would go further over
there - especially if you like cat. Hope you like bad air, bad water,
SARS, and living in a fascist totalitarian dictatorship - ENJOY!

Timothy wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:57:39 +0000, Oscar_Lives wrote:

Are you smoking crack?
US cars are shit compared to even the Koreans. US tools suck compared to
Japans and even Europeans. Japan's steel is much better and cheaper than
ours.


Umm, so what do you drive? Many forein car have major troubles after
100,000 mile while american cars are still chugging along. Your so far off
the map about japanese steel. The coke and coal that they get mostly comes
from china and it has so much sulfer in it that it creates **** poor
metal. Most all high quality steel in japan comes from our coke and ore.
You can try to argue, but the best steel in the world comes from usx and
weirton steel.



Where people aren't so ****ing greedy to demand $50,000 plus benefits a
year for a no-skill job like American workers do.


And what is soo bad that someone wants to be middle class and own their
own home, send their kids to college..etc? And *where* the hell can I find
one of these $50,000 a year no skilled jobs? Well? When the american
worker's pay has risen 20% in the past 30 years while the ceo's pay has
risen 2,600% in the past 30 year, I just don't see the room for these
magical 50K a year non-skilled jobs.

Actually, adjusted for inflation, the average American workers pay has
declined during the last 30 years, while CEO pay has gone way the hell
up. Add to that mix that corporate taxes, capital gains and taxes in
investment income has gone way the hell down and the middle class is
expected to make up for that through higher personal property taxes and
sales taxes.

Why should Dell get $280 million in tax breaks to create 2500 jobs (at
$112,000 per job) when smaller companies get $100,000 to create 250 jobs
that pay higher salaries and better benefits than Dell?

Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Timothy" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:57:39 +0000, Oscar_Lives wrote:


Umm, so what do you drive? Many forein car have major troubles after
100,000 mile while american cars are still chugging along. Your so far off
the map about japanese steel. The coke and coal that they get mostly comes
from china and it has so much sulfer in it that it creates **** poor
metal. Most all high quality steel in japan comes from our coke and ore.
You can try to argue, but the best steel in the world comes from usx and
weirton steel.


Bullshit. Everyone who has been awake for the last two decades knows that
the quality of US automobiles has been playing catch-up to the Japanese and
Koreans for years.

Japanese steel beats the crap out of US's for quality and production costs.
Why do you think so many US steel mills are closed? They couldn't compete
against the Japanese.

THe US steel mills have closed for a variety of reasons, some to do with
quality and most to do with greed on the part of the managers and
owners. Also there is something called dmuping - they are selling the
steel over here for less than it costs them to produce over there to
close our factories and get market share. That is illegal, but you seem
to think it is fine and dandy!


Where people aren't so ****ing greedy to demand $50,000 plus benefits a
year for a no-skill job like American workers do.

And what is soo bad that someone wants to be middle class and own their
own home, send their kids to college..etc? And *where* the hell can I find
one of these $50,000 a year no skilled jobs? Well? When the american
worker's pay has risen 20% in the past 30 years while the ceo's pay has
risen 2,600% in the past 30 year, I just don't see the room for these
magical 50K a year non-skilled jobs.


Ha! No-skilled UAW jobs that average over $50k a year are what I am talking
about. However, you are right, they are getting harder and harder to find,
as these no skilled jobs go straight to mexico, china, and other countries
that have workers willing to work hard at high quality and not be so ****ing
greedy.

Sorry dickhead - those UAW jobs you claim are no-skilled jobs actually
require hand-eye coordination as well as computer and quality control
skills that make it worth paying those higher salaries.

The manufacturing jobs are going overseas, but the US quality is not
going with it - thne crappy tools you buy at Harbor Freight and thje
crappy clothes and damn near everything else you buy at Wal-Mart made in
China isn't higher quality. Once the foreign manufacturers have market
share, the quality goes down hill because they don't have any serious
competition - it merely becomes a race to the bottom in terms of price
and quality.


Pay more for poor service and no selection is more like it.

I get my tools from local sources and the selection is just as good if not
better that the big box stores. It's truely amazing how well you can talk
out your ass like that. Maybe you could take your show out on the road....
see if you can earn 50K a year plus bennies doing it...lol


Maybe I could get idiots like you who believe the drivel that spews out of
their shop steward's asses to pay me 50K plus bennies. You seem to be quite
the idiot who parts easily with money and believes that shit doesn't stink.


Is that Johnston County redneck logic - are you a Blog Cabin Republican?

Yeah, I could double my salary if I wanted a transfer to China. Too bad
I
don't like cat.

So what is it that you do in this world where the chinese would pay you
double than you make here? Please don't leave me hanging, I just got to
know. How much you making now? I highly doubt that you would dare answer
that question or you would tip your hand and show us how your BS'ing
yourself and the rest of us.


Industrial engineer with a hard-earned master's degree making $68k a year.
My US company would pay me double (tax free) to go to china to help start up
more plants.

And you would sell out for that? THat puts you in the same category as
the people who worked for Standard Oil and other US companies who did
business with Nazi Germany and gave them technology that ended up coming
back to bite us in the ass. You are a ****ing traitor if you sell out
and go work in China.

Go suck on this BS. Take your head out of your steward's ass and look
around and see what is going on in the world.



Have a nice trip, hope you don't get jet lag too bad on your flight to
china.


Go **** yourself and keep believing what your steward tells you that the US
is all powerful and that you are worth so much to him and your employer,
even though you have no skills.

I'll bet you think the government owes you free health care, retirement, and
air jordans.

NO - but why the **** are we paying 15% of GDP on health care and
****ing so much of it away on this free-market approach when the rest of
the industrialized first-world countries have government run health care
that is much more efficient, results in better overall health care for
their citizens and fewer chronic health problems for half the % of GDP?

The free market doesn't solve everything and in fact causes many
problems that better government regulation could fix.

GFRfan wrote:

And what is so bad that someone wants to be middle class and own their
own home, send their kids to college..etc? And *where* the hell can I
find
one of these $50,000 a year no skilled jobs? Well? When the american
worker's pay has risen 20% in the past 30 years while the ceo's pay has
risen 2,600% in the past 30 year, I just don't see the room for these
magical 50K a year non-skilled jobs.


Ha! No-skilled UAW jobs that average over $50k a year are what I am
talking
about. However, you are right, they are getting harder and harder to
find,
as these no skilled jobs go straight to mexico, china, and other
countries
that have workers willing to work hard at high quality and not be so
****ing
greedy.


Why don't you answer the question you traitor ****!!!!!!!!!!!!
How DO you justify workers wages have risen 20% while CEO's pay has
risen 2600% (I gotta check these numbers) ? I do know that CEO's and
their minions pay has risen by a far greater percentage than the working
American.

YOU ARE A TRAITOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ditto!

Oscar_Lives wrote:

"GFRfan" wrote in message
...

And what is so bad that someone wants to be middle class and own their
own home, send their kids to college..etc? And *where* the hell can I

find

one of these $50,000 a year no skilled jobs? Well? When the american
worker's pay has risen 20% in the past 30 years while the ceo's pay has
risen 2,600% in the past 30 year, I just don't see the room for these
magical 50K a year non-skilled jobs.


Ha! No-skilled UAW jobs that average over $50k a year are what I am

talking

about. However, you are right, they are getting harder and harder to

find,

as these no skilled jobs go straight to mexico, china, and other

countries

that have workers willing to work hard at high quality and not be so

****ing

greedy.


Why don't you answer the question you traitor ****!!!!!!!!!!!!
How DO you justify workers wages have risen 20% while CEO's pay has risen
2600% (I gotta check these numbers) ? I do know that CEO's and their
minions pay has risen by a far greater percentage than the working
American.

YOU ARE A TRAITOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh, that hurts. You called me a traitor! I'm crushed.

Yeah, CEOs are ****ing greedy. What do you want me to do about it?

I can't justify it. Can you?

How about not sticking your nose up the collective assholes of corporate
America and the GOP and refrain from parroting that anti-labor bullshit?
Where do you live - Wall Street or Main Street?

Why not spend some money working up some conservation technology to make
all cars, trucks and other machinery much more fuel efficient? If we
implemented the suggestions of the Apollo Alliance, we would be energy
self-sufficient, and have technology that we can sell to other countries.

Steveo wrote:

USENET READER wrote:

I say **** em all - keep the jobs and the money over here, control
immigration, and license and don't sell out our technology.


Agreed. We don't need anything imported except oil, and we can go
take that if need be.

It is what it is.

Go tell the Canadians and Brits waiting 6 months queued up to get an MRI
to see if they have a brain tumor that their health care is more
efficient and higher quality. *Any* good or service that you give away
for free will be rationed and of low quality. This is about as certain
as the law of gravity.

The reason we spend what we do on health care is because:

1.) As a country we are among the most affluent so we can afford to
spend high percentages of income on things like health care. We
actually spend a smaller percentage of income on things like housing,
food and fuel than other developed countries.

2.) We have a hybrid system that is not a true free market nor is it a
rationed nationalized service. Employer provided medical insurance
encouraged the consumer to be unconcerned with cost. A reasonable
system would be personal medical saving accounts combined with
catastrophic health coverage insurance. Our current system violates the
basic premise of insurance - i.e. you insure for things that are
relatively infrequent but expensive. By contributing to an insurance
fund you spread the risk and the cost. You don't use insurance for
routine events that are almost certain to happen, i.e. like going to the
doctor when you catch a cold. You can buy medical insurance with a $2k
annual deductible very cheap. Combine that with a $2k per year personal
medical saving account where you get to keep the unused funds after a
certain number of years. Now you are using insurance for relatively
rare catastrophic events like cancer and you give the consumer an
incentive to shop for price on the routine stuff.

The industrialized countries with nationalized health care are
economically in the crapper. France and Germany have chronic double
digit unemployment. Japan has been on a downturn for the last decade.
China is growing so fast because they are starting from such a low
point. As their wages rise they will become less attracive (remember,
Japan was once the country of choice for cheap labor).

Yes, some things in this country are broken (education certainly - a
goverment monopoly I might point out). We can compete with the world
though. We do have a lot of smart motivated people here.



USENET READER wrote:


Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Timothy" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:57:39 +0000, Oscar_Lives wrote:



Umm, so what do you drive? Many forein car have major troubles after
100,000 mile while american cars are still chugging along. Your so
far off
the map about japanese steel. The coke and coal that they get mostly
comes
from china and it has so much sulfer in it that it creates **** poor
metal. Most all high quality steel in japan comes from our coke and ore.
You can try to argue, but the best steel in the world comes from usx and
weirton steel.



Bullshit. Everyone who has been awake for the last two decades knows
that the quality of US automobiles has been playing catch-up to the
Japanese and Koreans for years.

Japanese steel beats the crap out of US's for quality and production
costs. Why do you think so many US steel mills are closed? They
couldn't compete against the Japanese.


THe US steel mills have closed for a variety of reasons, some to do with
quality and most to do with greed on the part of the managers and
owners. Also there is something called dmuping - they are selling the
steel over here for less than it costs them to produce over there to
close our factories and get market share. That is illegal, but you seem
to think it is fine and dandy!



Where people aren't so ****ing greedy to demand $50,000 plus benefits a
year for a no-skill job like American workers do.


And what is soo bad that someone wants to be middle class and own their
own home, send their kids to college..etc? And *where* the hell can I
find
one of these $50,000 a year no skilled jobs? Well? When the american
worker's pay has risen 20% in the past 30 years while the ceo's pay has
risen 2,600% in the past 30 year, I just don't see the room for these
magical 50K a year non-skilled jobs.



Ha! No-skilled UAW jobs that average over $50k a year are what I am
talking about. However, you are right, they are getting harder and
harder to find, as these no skilled jobs go straight to mexico, china,
and other countries that have workers willing to work hard at high
quality and not be so ****ing greedy.


Sorry dickhead - those UAW jobs you claim are no-skilled jobs actually
require hand-eye coordination as well as computer and quality control
skills that make it worth paying those higher salaries.

The manufacturing jobs are going overseas, but the US quality is not
going with it - thne crappy tools you buy at Harbor Freight and thje
crappy clothes and damn near everything else you buy at Wal-Mart made in
China isn't higher quality. Once the foreign manufacturers have market
share, the quality goes down hill because they don't have any serious
competition - it merely becomes a race to the bottom in terms of price
and quality.



Pay more for poor service and no selection is more like it.


I get my tools from local sources and the selection is just as good
if not
better that the big box stores. It's truely amazing how well you can
talk
out your ass like that. Maybe you could take your show out on the
road....
see if you can earn 50K a year plus bennies doing it...lol



Maybe I could get idiots like you who believe the drivel that spews
out of their shop steward's asses to pay me 50K plus bennies. You
seem to be quite the idiot who parts easily with money and believes
that shit doesn't stink.


Is that Johnston County redneck logic - are you a Blog Cabin Republican?


Yeah, I could double my salary if I wanted a transfer to China. Too
bad I
don't like cat.


So what is it that you do in this world where the chinese would pay you
double than you make here? Please don't leave me hanging, I just got to
know. How much you making now? I highly doubt that you would dare answer
that question or you would tip your hand and show us how your BS'ing
yourself and the rest of us.



Industrial engineer with a hard-earned master's degree making $68k a
year. My US company would pay me double (tax free) to go to china to
help start up more plants.


And you would sell out for that? THat puts you in the same category as
the people who worked for Standard Oil and other US companies who did
business with Nazi Germany and gave them technology that ended up coming
back to bite us in the ass. You are a ****ing traitor if you sell out
and go work in China.


Go suck on this BS. Take your head out of your steward's ass and look
around and see what is going on in the world.



Have a nice trip, hope you don't get jet lag too bad on your flight to
china.



Go **** yourself and keep believing what your steward tells you that
the US is all powerful and that you are worth so much to him and your
employer, even though you have no skills.

I'll bet you think the government owes you free health care,
retirement, and air jordans.


NO - but why the **** are we paying 15% of GDP on health care and
****ing so much of it away on this free-market approach when the rest of
the industrialized first-world countries have government run health care
that is much more efficient, results in better overall health care for
their citizens and fewer chronic health problems for half the % of GDP?

The free market doesn't solve everything and in fact causes many
problems that better government regulation could fix.

Forum Monitor wrote:

Go tell the Canadians and Brits waiting 6 months queued up to get an
MRI to see if they have a brain tumor that their health care is more
efficient and higher quality. *Any* good or service that you give
away for free will be rationed and of low quality. This is about as
certain as the law of gravity.


Waldo wrote:
Where do people like you get this crap? Having been a Canadian for 62
years I personally know of no one who has had to wait six months for any
kind of necessary health care. That's not to say that it hasn't happened
to some one, some where, but if it did it was certainly the exception
and not the norm.


From Rush (finally got off the Oxycontin,leave me alone)Limbaugh, Bill
(Phone sex) O'reilly, Shaun (loud mouth) Hannity, Dick (Halliburton)
Cheney, 'W' (liar, draft dodger) Bush ..... etc. etc. etc.