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"Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument
1 Attachment(s)
As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was collected
on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by Hilda Curtis in 1925. At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous examples of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of its range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name given to genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So reviews, such as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary. I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's confusing. It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern natural hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE Queensland natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x gracilicaule) to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum which he names the "Atherton Cane Orchid". Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact another D x delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of the coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic of a gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like gracilicaule - much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen base as might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum perfume. Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. |
"Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument
Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your homework.
Nice shot too! Cheers John "Dave Gillingham" wrote in message ... As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was collected on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by Hilda Curtis in 1925. At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous examples of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of its range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name given to genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So reviews, such as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary. I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's confusing. It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern natural hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE Queensland natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x gracilicaule) to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum which he names the "Atherton Cane Orchid". Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact another D x delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of the coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic of a gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like gracilicaule - much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen base as might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum perfume. Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. |
"Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument
I agree. Most helpful. I find Dendrobiums very confusing. I looked up D
speciosum on teh SBOE web page and found they have several varieties, as well as others, so I spent some time googling habitats and ranges just so I can get the geography straight in my mind. Or attempt to get the geography straight in my mind. I fear I suffer from California-itis, anything to the east of the Sierra and west of the coast is of no importance. Rather like that old 'New Yorker' cover showing the world revolving around Manhattan. http://www.saulsteinbergfoundation.o...ewofworld.html I bought Jones' book and havn't opened it yet. I guess that's what I'm doing this evening... well actually Eric Hunt is talking to our society about the Borneo trip, so tomorrow... K Barrett "John Varigos" wrote in message om... Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your homework. Nice shot too! Cheers John "Dave Gillingham" wrote in message ... As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was collected on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by Hilda Curtis in 1925. At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous examples of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of its range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name given to genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So reviews, such as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary. I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's confusing. It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern natural hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE Queensland natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x gracilicaule) to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum which he names the "Atherton Cane Orchid". Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact another D x delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of the coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic of a gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like gracilicaule - much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen base as might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum perfume. Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. |
"Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument
Kathy, you will find Jones's book both engrossing and frustrating. His index
is a real pain (badly thought out and set out - you'll know what I mean when you start using it) but once you get into it the book is the encyclopedia on Australian species. You don't have to agree with him on the name changes but I have noticed that they are slowly being accepted by many growers in Australia particularly the experts at my ANOS group. I am sure Eric's talk will be most entertaining! I'd love to be there to hear what he says was the highlights and lowlights! Pass on my regards to him. John "K Barrett" wrote in message . .. I agree. Most helpful. I find Dendrobiums very confusing. I looked up D speciosum on teh SBOE web page and found they have several varieties, as well as others, so I spent some time googling habitats and ranges just so I can get the geography straight in my mind. Or attempt to get the geography straight in my mind. I fear I suffer from California-itis, anything to the east of the Sierra and west of the coast is of no importance. Rather like that old 'New Yorker' cover showing the world revolving around Manhattan. http://www.saulsteinbergfoundation.o...ewofworld.html I bought Jones' book and havn't opened it yet. I guess that's what I'm doing this evening... well actually Eric Hunt is talking to our society about the Borneo trip, so tomorrow... K Barrett "John Varigos" wrote in message om... Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your homework. Nice shot too! Cheers John "Dave Gillingham" wrote in message ... As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was collected on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by Hilda Curtis in 1925. At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous examples of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of its range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name given to genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So reviews, such as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary. I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's confusing. It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern natural hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE Queensland natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x gracilicaule) to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum which he names the "Atherton Cane Orchid". Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact another D x delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of the coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic of a gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like gracilicaule - much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen base as might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum perfume. Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. |
"Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument
Kathy, I assume you're on broadband? If so I'll send you the cross index I've
made for Jones (2006). Only the epiphytes & lithophytes so far - the terrestrials are in the too hard basket as yet, since I know very little about them. Then I'll try to make the time to scan some information on speciosum from my pre-2006 books, since at this stage those are the taxa you're most likely to see on labels over there. If you'd prefer me to use an email address other than the one on the header of this posting, email me to advise. I'll hold the email till I see your reply here. On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:54:20 -0700, "K Barrett" wrote: I agree. Most helpful. I find Dendrobiums very confusing. I looked up D speciosum on teh SBOE web page and found they have several varieties, as well as others, so I spent some time googling habitats and ranges just so I can get the geography straight in my mind. Or attempt to get the geography straight in my mind. I fear I suffer from California-itis, anything to the east of the Sierra and west of the coast is of no importance. Rather like that old 'New Yorker' cover showing the world revolving around Manhattan. http://www.saulsteinbergfoundation.o...ewofworld.html I bought Jones' book and havn't opened it yet. I guess that's what I'm doing this evening... well actually Eric Hunt is talking to our society about the Borneo trip, so tomorrow... K Barrett "John Varigos" wrote in message . com... Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your homework. Nice shot too! Cheers John "Dave Gillingham" wrote in message ... As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was collected on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by Hilda Curtis in 1925. At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous examples of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of its range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name given to genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So reviews, such as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary. I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's confusing. It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern natural hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE Queensland natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x gracilicaule) to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum which he names the "Atherton Cane Orchid". Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact another D x delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of the coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic of a gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like gracilicaule - much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen base as might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum perfume. Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. |
"Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument
Dave,
If that list is available for limited sharing, I would LOVE to have a browse... -- Yours Sincerely Kye "Dave Gillingham" wrote in message ... Kathy, I assume you're on broadband? If so I'll send you the cross index I've made for Jones (2006). Only the epiphytes & lithophytes so far - the terrestrials are in the too hard basket as yet, since I know very little about them. Then I'll try to make the time to scan some information on speciosum from my pre-2006 books, since at this stage those are the taxa you're most likely to see on labels over there. If you'd prefer me to use an email address other than the one on the header of this posting, email me to advise. I'll hold the email till I see your reply here. On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:54:20 -0700, "K Barrett" wrote: I agree. Most helpful. I find Dendrobiums very confusing. I looked up D speciosum on teh SBOE web page and found they have several varieties, as well as others, so I spent some time googling habitats and ranges just so I can get the geography straight in my mind. Or attempt to get the geography straight in my mind. I fear I suffer from California-itis, anything to the east of the Sierra and west of the coast is of no importance. Rather like that old 'New Yorker' cover showing the world revolving around Manhattan. http://www.saulsteinbergfoundation.o...ewofworld.html I bought Jones' book and havn't opened it yet. I guess that's what I'm doing this evening... well actually Eric Hunt is talking to our society about the Borneo trip, so tomorrow... K Barrett "John Varigos" wrote in message .com... Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your homework. Nice shot too! Cheers John "Dave Gillingham" wrote in message ... As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was collected on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by Hilda Curtis in 1925. At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous examples of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of its range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name given to genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So reviews, such as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary. I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's confusing. It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern natural hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE Queensland natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x gracilicaule) to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum which he names the "Atherton Cane Orchid". Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact another D x delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of the coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic of a gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like gracilicaule - much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen base as might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum perfume. Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. |
"Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument
Kye, should I use the Hotmail address in the header to your posting?
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:37:28 GMT, "Kye" wrote: Dave, If that list is available for limited sharing, I would LOVE to have a browse... Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. |
"Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument
Dave
Wouldn't mind a copy as well. Cheers John -- John Varigos Melbourne, Australia __________________________________________ To email me remove "usenet." from my email address. "Dave Gillingham" wrote in message ... Kye, should I use the Hotmail address in the header to your posting? On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:37:28 GMT, "Kye" wrote: Dave, If that list is available for limited sharing, I would LOVE to have a browse... Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. |
"Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument
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"Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument
Dave, How wonderful of you to share that work! Yes please send it to the
mormodes address. You are a Pal! Kath "Dave Gillingham" wrote in message ... Kathy, I assume you're on broadband? If so I'll send you the cross index I've made for Jones (2006). Only the epiphytes & lithophytes so far - the terrestrials are in the too hard basket as yet, since I know very little about them. Then I'll try to make the time to scan some information on speciosum from my pre-2006 books, since at this stage those are the taxa you're most likely to see on labels over there. If you'd prefer me to use an email address other than the one on the header of this posting, email me to advise. I'll hold the email till I see your reply here. On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:54:20 -0700, "K Barrett" wrote: I agree. Most helpful. I find Dendrobiums very confusing. I looked up D speciosum on teh SBOE web page and found they have several varieties, as well as others, so I spent some time googling habitats and ranges just so I can get the geography straight in my mind. Or attempt to get the geography straight in my mind. I fear I suffer from California-itis, anything to the east of the Sierra and west of the coast is of no importance. Rather like that old 'New Yorker' cover showing the world revolving around Manhattan. http://www.saulsteinbergfoundation.o...ewofworld.html I bought Jones' book and havn't opened it yet. I guess that's what I'm doing this evening... well actually Eric Hunt is talking to our society about the Borneo trip, so tomorrow... K Barrett "John Varigos" wrote in message .com... Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your homework. Nice shot too! Cheers John "Dave Gillingham" wrote in message ... As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was collected on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by Hilda Curtis in 1925. At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous examples of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of its range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name given to genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So reviews, such as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary. I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's confusing. It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern natural hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE Queensland natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x gracilicaule) to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum which he names the "Atherton Cane Orchid". Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact another D x delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of the coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic of a gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like gracilicaule - much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen base as might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum perfume. Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. Dave Gillingham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To email me remove the .private from my email address. |
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