Urgent advice needed
 

Hello readers,

I just went shopping and (again) couldn't resist to enter the local
green discounter. There were two giant vandaceous orchids (almost 1
meter in length) for only €16,50 each ($20,-). They were full in leave
from bottom to top and had been flowering many times according to the
cut stalks in the leaf axils. The were in flower at the moment too, but
there was something that puzzled me.

The present flower stalk was at the top of the stem. The stem ended in a
few smaller leaves and the stalk came out of the top leave, just like
you see with reed-epidendrums. I had never seen a vandaceous flower that
way.

The flowers were a mauve purple with a tiny bit of reddish spotting. The
sepals and petals were rather small and a bit inwards curved. So I think
it was a bi- or multigeneric cross with in any case vanda and arachnis
as parents. I fond a picture of Aranda Norah Alsagof / Noorah Alsakoff
that resembles it very much (I will post that on abpo).

Can anyone tell me if it is normal for these kind of plants to flower
from the top? And if not so, is it still a healthy plant? Should I run
back to the store and buy it, before someone else does? Please help me!

Grtz. Niek

I wouldn't rush. When plants (or anything else) are priced ridiculously
low, there's usually a reason.

In this case, it sounds like the plants may have been in decline for some
time -- except for the very top one or two that may be in active growth, the
leaves should be at least as long as the ones immediately below. Also, it
should not be flowering from the very top; usually, it's near the 5th mature
leaf down. It sounds like the plant has been pushed to flower so often
that it's outrun itself.

Good growing,
--
Kenni Judd
Juno Beach Orchids
http://www.jborchids.com

"Niek Hanckmann" wrote in message
. ..
Hello readers,

I just went shopping and (again) couldn't resist to enter the local green
discounter. There were two giant vandaceous orchids (almost 1 meter in
length) for only €16,50 each ($20,-). They were full in leave from bottom
to top and had been flowering many times according to the cut stalks in
the leaf axils. The were in flower at the moment too, but there was
something that puzzled me.

The present flower stalk was at the top of the stem. The stem ended in a
few smaller leaves and the stalk came out of the top leave, just like you
see with reed-epidendrums. I had never seen a vandaceous flower that way.

The flowers were a mauve purple with a tiny bit of reddish spotting. The
sepals and petals were rather small and a bit inwards curved. So I think
it was a bi- or multigeneric cross with in any case vanda and arachnis as
parents. I fond a picture of Aranda Norah Alsagof / Noorah Alsakoff that
resembles it very much (I will post that on abpo).

Can anyone tell me if it is normal for these kind of plants to flower from
the top? And if not so, is it still a healthy plant? Should I run back to
the store and buy it, before someone else does? Please help me!

Grtz. Niek

Well if a spike is coming out from the crown, then that means the plant
is dead pretty much, unless it grows some keiki. But given the size of
the plant, that may be very possible. All vandaceous plants are
monopodial right?

And yes, as mentioned, the top leaves should be as large, at least, as
the lower leaves. Smaller leaves usually suggest root problems at the
time of growth....

Cheers,
Xi

Kenni Judd wrote:

I wouldn't rush. When plants (or anything else) are priced ridiculously
low, there's usually a reason.

In this case, it sounds like the plants may have been in decline for some
time -- except for the very top one or two that may be in active growth, the
leaves should be at least as long as the ones immediately below. Also, it
should not be flowering from the very top; usually, it's near the 5th mature
leaf down. It sounds like the plant has been pushed to flower so often
that it's outrun itself.

Good growing,

Thank you both for your advice, but it came too late... I already went
back to the store to buy it because searching on the Internet I came
across this topic on the UK Orchid forum:
http://www.ukorchidforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=880.

There they stated that it is indeed not a healthy sign when a monopodial
is flowering from the lead, but that a strong plant will survive. It is
possible that it will grow further, but more likely it will make side
shoots. So in the that case I will have to wait two or three years until
it flowers again.

(and in the worst case I end up with a nice vase which appeared to be
included in the price of €16,50!)

Pictures on abpo!

Grtz. Niek


Xi Wang schreef:
Well if a spike is coming out from the crown, then that means the plant
is dead pretty much, unless it grows some keiki. But given the size of
the plant, that may be very possible. All vandaceous plants are
monopodial right?

And yes, as mentioned, the top leaves should be as large, at least, as
the lower leaves. Smaller leaves usually suggest root problems at the
time of growth....

Cheers,
Xi

Kenni Judd wrote:

I wouldn't rush. When plants (or anything else) are priced
ridiculously low, there's usually a reason.

In this case, it sounds like the plants may have been in decline for
some time -- except for the very top one or two that may be in active
growth, the leaves should be at least as long as the ones immediately
below. Also, it should not be flowering from the very top; usually,
it's near the 5th mature leaf down. It sounds like the plant has
been pushed to flower so often that it's outrun itself.

Good growing,

Well, you did say that it was a big plant, so in all likelihood, it will
produce keiki (side shoots). Actually, this might be somewhat good news
since you may end up with 3-4 plantlets over the next few years. As
well, you can expect your vanda to continue flowering. The side shoots
themselves will take a few years to flower, but the mother plant can
still send spikes from the side like it normally does.

Cheers,
Xi

Niek Hanckmann wrote:
Thank you both for your advice, but it came too late... I already went
back to the store to buy it because searching on the Internet I came
across this topic on the UK Orchid forum:
http://www.ukorchidforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=880.

There they stated that it is indeed not a healthy sign when a monopodial
is flowering from the lead, but that a strong plant will survive. It is
possible that it will grow further, but more likely it will make side
shoots. So in the that case I will have to wait two or three years until
it flowers again.

(and in the worst case I end up with a nice vase which appeared to be
included in the price of €16,50!)

Pictures on abpo!

Grtz. Niek


Xi Wang schreef:

Well if a spike is coming out from the crown, then that means the
plant is dead pretty much, unless it grows some keiki. But given the
size of the plant, that may be very possible. All vandaceous plants
are monopodial right?

And yes, as mentioned, the top leaves should be as large, at least, as
the lower leaves. Smaller leaves usually suggest root problems at the
time of growth....

Cheers,
Xi

Kenni Judd wrote:

I wouldn't rush. When plants (or anything else) are priced
ridiculously low, there's usually a reason.

In this case, it sounds like the plants may have been in decline for
some time -- except for the very top one or two that may be in active
growth, the leaves should be at least as long as the ones immediately
below. Also, it should not be flowering from the very top; usually,
it's near the 5th mature leaf down. It sounds like the plant has
been pushed to flower so often that it's outrun itself.

Good growing,

Side-shoots are very possible. Sorry to disagree with Xi, but I'll be
surprised if you report new flower spikes from the dying "mother" plant.
Now, you just need to hope those new shoots develop their own root systems
before "mom" expires entirely. There are products you can buy to increase
these chances, but having to do so would rather negate your "bargain," IMHO.
The longer you can leave those sideshoots attached, the faster they will
grow and bloom for you -- for as long as "mom" hangs in there. When she's
clearly dead, I'd recommend getting them off promptly. Sick, and especially
dead, plants tend to draw pests and pathogens. Good growing, Kenni

"Xi Wang" wrote in message
news:2QPIe.124184$s54.49679@pd7tw2no...
Well, you did say that it was a big plant, so in all likelihood, it will
produce keiki (side shoots). Actually, this might be somewhat good news
since you may end up with 3-4 plantlets over the next few years. As well,
you can expect your vanda to continue flowering. The side shoots
themselves will take a few years to flower, but the mother plant can still
send spikes from the side like it normally does.

Cheers,
Xi

Niek Hanckmann wrote:
Thank you both for your advice, but it came too late... I already went
back to the store to buy it because searching on the Internet I came
across this topic on the UK Orchid forum:
http://www.ukorchidforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=880.

There they stated that it is indeed not a healthy sign when a monopodial
is flowering from the lead, but that a strong plant will survive. It is
possible that it will grow further, but more likely it will make side
shoots. So in the that case I will have to wait two or three years until
it flowers again.

(and in the worst case I end up with a nice vase which appeared to be
included in the price of €16,50!)

Pictures on abpo!

Grtz. Niek


Xi Wang schreef:

Well if a spike is coming out from the crown, then that means the plant
is dead pretty much, unless it grows some keiki. But given the size of
the plant, that may be very possible. All vandaceous plants are
monopodial right?

And yes, as mentioned, the top leaves should be as large, at least, as
the lower leaves. Smaller leaves usually suggest root problems at the
time of growth....

Cheers,
Xi

Kenni Judd wrote:

I wouldn't rush. When plants (or anything else) are priced
ridiculously low, there's usually a reason.

In this case, it sounds like the plants may have been in decline for
some time -- except for the very top one or two that may be in active
growth, the leaves should be at least as long as the ones immediately
below. Also, it should not be flowering from the very top; usually,
it's near the 5th mature leaf down. It sounds like the plant has been
pushed to flower so often that it's outrun itself.

Good growing,

I think that you are right Kenni, I dont expect new flower stalks on the
main stem when it won't grow any further. So I have to rely on new side
shoots. Fortunately the main stem has good and fat roots. And although
it just came from the store it even has some roots with active growing
tips. I've not often seen that on an orchid bought at the green
discounter! So I'am very hopeful about the possibilities for this beauty.

Grtz. Niek

Kenni Judd schreef:
Side-shoots are very possible. Sorry to disagree with Xi, but I'll be
surprised if you report new flower spikes from the dying "mother" plant.
Now, you just need to hope those new shoots develop their own root systems
before "mom" expires entirely. There are products you can buy to increase
these chances, but having to do so would rather negate your "bargain," IMHO.
The longer you can leave those sideshoots attached, the faster they will
grow and bloom for you -- for as long as "mom" hangs in there. When she's
clearly dead, I'd recommend getting them off promptly. Sick, and especially
dead, plants tend to draw pests and pathogens. Good growing, Kenni

"Xi Wang" wrote in message
news:2QPIe.124184$s54.49679@pd7tw2no...

Well, you did say that it was a big plant, so in all likelihood, it will
produce keiki (side shoots). Actually, this might be somewhat good news
since you may end up with 3-4 plantlets over the next few years. As well,
you can expect your vanda to continue flowering. The side shoots
themselves will take a few years to flower, but the mother plant can still
send spikes from the side like it normally does.

Cheers,
Xi

Niek Hanckmann wrote:

Thank you both for your advice, but it came too late... I already went
back to the store to buy it because searching on the Internet I came
across this topic on the UK Orchid forum:
http://www.ukorchidforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=880.

There they stated that it is indeed not a healthy sign when a monopodial
is flowering from the lead, but that a strong plant will survive. It is
possible that it will grow further, but more likely it will make side
shoots. So in the that case I will have to wait two or three years until
it flowers again.

(and in the worst case I end up with a nice vase which appeared to be
included in the price of €16,50!)

Pictures on abpo!

Grtz. Niek


Xi Wang schreef:


Well if a spike is coming out from the crown, then that means the plant
is dead pretty much, unless it grows some keiki. But given the size of
the plant, that may be very possible. All vandaceous plants are
monopodial right?

And yes, as mentioned, the top leaves should be as large, at least, as
the lower leaves. Smaller leaves usually suggest root problems at the
time of growth....

Cheers,
Xi

Kenni Judd wrote:


I wouldn't rush. When plants (or anything else) are priced
ridiculously low, there's usually a reason.

In this case, it sounds like the plants may have been in decline for
some time -- except for the very top one or two that may be in active
growth, the leaves should be at least as long as the ones immediately
below. Also, it should not be flowering from the very top; usually,
it's near the 5th mature leaf down. It sounds like the plant has been
pushed to flower so often that it's outrun itself.

Good growing,

Hi,

I didn't know that was the case...is it because without apical growth,
the hormonal balance in the plants goes wonky? I was thinking that with
a big plant like that, even without apical growth, it will stay take the
remaining leaves years to die off, and in that time, it may still
produce at least roots and spikes, just not new leaves.

Cheers,
Xi

Kenni Judd wrote:

Side-shoots are very possible. Sorry to disagree with Xi, but I'll be
surprised if you report new flower spikes from the dying "mother" plant.
Now, you just need to hope those new shoots develop their own root systems
before "mom" expires entirely. There are products you can buy to increase
these chances, but having to do so would rather negate your "bargain," IMHO.
The longer you can leave those sideshoots attached, the faster they will
grow and bloom for you -- for as long as "mom" hangs in there. When she's
clearly dead, I'd recommend getting them off promptly. Sick, and especially
dead, plants tend to draw pests and pathogens. Good growing, Kenni

"Xi Wang" wrote in message
news:2QPIe.124184$s54.49679@pd7tw2no...

Well, you did say that it was a big plant, so in all likelihood, it will
produce keiki (side shoots). Actually, this might be somewhat good news
since you may end up with 3-4 plantlets over the next few years. As well,
you can expect your vanda to continue flowering. The side shoots
themselves will take a few years to flower, but the mother plant can still
send spikes from the side like it normally does.

Cheers,
Xi

Niek Hanckmann wrote:

Thank you both for your advice, but it came too late... I already went
back to the store to buy it because searching on the Internet I came
across this topic on the UK Orchid forum:
http://www.ukorchidforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=880.

There they stated that it is indeed not a healthy sign when a monopodial
is flowering from the lead, but that a strong plant will survive. It is
possible that it will grow further, but more likely it will make side
shoots. So in the that case I will have to wait two or three years until
it flowers again.

(and in the worst case I end up with a nice vase which appeared to be
included in the price of €16,50!)

Pictures on abpo!

Grtz. Niek


Xi Wang schreef:


Well if a spike is coming out from the crown, then that means the plant
is dead pretty much, unless it grows some keiki. But given the size of
the plant, that may be very possible. All vandaceous plants are
monopodial right?

And yes, as mentioned, the top leaves should be as large, at least, as
the lower leaves. Smaller leaves usually suggest root problems at the
time of growth....

Cheers,
Xi

Kenni Judd wrote:


I wouldn't rush. When plants (or anything else) are priced
ridiculously low, there's usually a reason.

In this case, it sounds like the plants may have been in decline for
some time -- except for the very top one or two that may be in active
growth, the leaves should be at least as long as the ones immediately
below. Also, it should not be flowering from the very top; usually,
it's near the 5th mature leaf down. It sounds like the plant has been
pushed to flower so often that it's outrun itself.

Good growing,

Hi, Xi: I don't know whether it's hormones or what, but I have never seen
nor heard of a monopodial blooming from lower down than the previous
inflorescence. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen -- I've learned to "never
say never" about orchids -- but it would be an unusual event. So if this
one is already blooming from the very top, it probably has no more room to
bloom on the mother plant. Kenni

"Xi Wang" wrote in message
news:r0WIe.126373$s54.2507@pd7tw2no...
Hi,

I didn't know that was the case...is it because without apical growth, the
hormonal balance in the plants goes wonky? I was thinking that with a big
plant like that, even without apical growth, it will stay take the
remaining leaves years to die off, and in that time, it may still produce
at least roots and spikes, just not new leaves.

Cheers,
Xi

Now that you mention it, I guess I've never seen it either...curious.
Well, let's hope he gets keikis then!

Cheers,
Xi

Kenni Judd wrote:

Hi, Xi: I don't know whether it's hormones or what, but I have never seen
nor heard of a monopodial blooming from lower down than the previous
inflorescence. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen -- I've learned to "never
say never" about orchids -- but it would be an unusual event. So if this
one is already blooming from the very top, it probably has no more room to
bloom on the mother plant. Kenni

"Xi Wang" wrote in message
news:r0WIe.126373$s54.2507@pd7tw2no...

Hi,

I didn't know that was the case...is it because without apical growth, the
hormonal balance in the plants goes wonky? I was thinking that with a big
plant like that, even without apical growth, it will stay take the
remaining leaves years to die off, and in that time, it may still produce
at least roots and spikes, just not new leaves.

Cheers,
Xi

Kenni, it can happen! I have a phaleanopsis hybrid in my window-sill
that is doing the trick. After three succesive flower stalks it made a
fourth one even beneath the first one. It actually comes from under the
lowest leaf! So it is possible but rare.

Grtz. Niek

Kenni Judd schreef:
Hi, Xi: I don't know whether it's hormones or what, but I have never seen
nor heard of a monopodial blooming from lower down than the previous
inflorescence. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen -- I've learned to "never
say never" about orchids -- but it would be an unusual event. So if this
one is already blooming from the very top, it probably has no more room to
bloom on the mother plant. Kenni

"Xi Wang" wrote in message
news:r0WIe.126373$s54.2507@pd7tw2no...

Hi,

I didn't know that was the case...is it because without apical growth, the
hormonal balance in the plants goes wonky? I was thinking that with a big
plant like that, even without apical growth, it will stay take the
remaining leaves years to die off, and in that time, it may still produce
at least roots and spikes, just not new leaves.

Cheers,
Xi