The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

For those regular readers of RGO you may remember that I have been battling
the nasties over the year. The mealies have been gone now for over a year
and my phals really improved. I can't say it's because they aren't being
dragged down by mealies or whether its the change in fertilizer to the MSU
formulation from Ray. In either case I have the best looking an branching
spikes I've every had in my collection. Thanks Ray and Enstar II!

The Enstar took out the hard brown scale that was around a few of the
plants. I don't think it was much of an infestation but I did have problems
with it on a couple of the Oncidiums and Encyclia. I haven't seen hard
scale in over a year now. I don't miss popping those hard shells like
bubble wrap.

The real war was with the soft scale. I tried all the contact stuff from
the bottle, malathion, orthene, Enstar II, and other stinky stuff. It
would knock them down but they would just pop up somewhere else. It was
like a game of wack-a-mole in the arcade.

Last summer I bought the Bayer Advanced Tree & Shrub Insect Control
Concentrate. At first I didn't do my arithmetic correctly and was applying
it at a reduced rate and didn't see any affect. After returning to the
calculator I realized my mistake and I applied it at a rate of 1 oz per
gallon through the dos-a-matic injection system. I did this for three
consecutive weeks of watering in August.

Since this is a systemic and must be sucked up by the roots of the plant I
thought three weeks of application would insure that the plants carried the
insecticide throughout the entire plant. According to the label when used
on trees and shrubs it is effective for an entire year. In October I
thought I saw another outbreak of scale and applied another application but
have decided that I only saw eggs hatching.

The eggs of the scale seem to last many months. Five months after
application I do not find any live adult scale. On the older growths and
deep in the sheaths I do find crawlers. When I find them I clean them up
immediately.

My hypothesis is that the eggs were unaffected by the drenching with the
Bayer solution. Those eggs hatch where they were hidden on the older
growths. The crawlers start out looking for a place to start sucking and
get the residual of the poison still pulsing through the plant. They seem
to swarm form a mound about 1/2 of an inch across. I haven't found any
scale on new growths just on aging older canes and pseudobulbs.

In my previous attempts I was able to kill the live scale but a couple of
months later the eggs would hatch and soon infest the collection. With the
systemic in the plant over a longer period these eggs hatch but have nothing
to eat and soon die. The older growths did not suck up the systemic
insecticide as well as the new growths. The new growth has a higher
concentration of insecticide so if the crawler was blown into one of the new
growths it is quickly poisoned.

Any thoughts about this from the more experienced grower who have won the
battle of the scale?

Good Growing,
Gene

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

As far as I know, you are the only person who has ever won the battle of
the scale...

My experiences have been similar to yours, but I hadn't connected the
dots to long lived scale eggs. That is as good a hypothesis as any. I
thoroughly sprayed with three week apart applications of similar
chemicals (the bayer spray and a different IGR called Distance) late
this fall. I've seen a couple isolated outbreaks of boisduval scale on
a few plants, mainly plants hanging high where it is a bit warmer. But
in general the scale load is greatly reduced, I have to really work to
find any. Which is a step in the right direction. I have seen a couple
more outbreaks of mealy bug in some odd places (on phals, not paphs),
which I'm not sure I understand since I nuked every plant in the
greenhouse. I'm hoping that this summer when I can spread things apart
a great deal more that I can win the final battle.

I'm making the final push, we'll fill in the trenches and let the
poppies grow this fall.

Any thoughts about this from the more experienced grower who have won the
battle of the scale?

Good Growing,
Gene








--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing as I. Did you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?

We can beat these monsters!

Gene




"Rob" wrote in message
...
As far as I know, you are the only person who has ever won the battle of
the scale...

My experiences have been similar to yours, but I hadn't connected the
dots to long lived scale eggs. That is as good a hypothesis as any. I
thoroughly sprayed with three week apart applications of similar
chemicals (the bayer spray and a different IGR called Distance) late
this fall. I've seen a couple isolated outbreaks of boisduval scale on
a few plants, mainly plants hanging high where it is a bit warmer. But
in general the scale load is greatly reduced, I have to really work to
find any. Which is a step in the right direction. I have seen a couple
more outbreaks of mealy bug in some odd places (on phals, not paphs),
which I'm not sure I understand since I nuked every plant in the
greenhouse. I'm hoping that this summer when I can spread things apart
a great deal more that I can win the final battle.

I'm making the final push, we'll fill in the trenches and let the
poppies grow this fall.

Any thoughts about this from the more experienced grower who have won
the
battle of the scale?

Good Growing,
Gene








--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing as I. Did you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the bayer for
three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't work, or at least
not completely. When I added the IGR into the mix, it was applied as a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf surface as
possible (top and bottom), again for three consecutive weeks, within a
couple hours after watering the greenhouse in my normal way. I'm not
sure of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to
water before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a chance
to be absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more
actively transpiring right after a nice watering and more susceptible to
absorbing chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity (absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it. I don't
think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is about the same
cost, but you have to buy a whole quart... They target the same pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of
imidocloprid for the first two weeks. Both have systemic activity. I
was worried that the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated
imidocloprid treatment, and I hadn't used orthene in a while. This way
I was hoping to get the resistant ones in the first two passes, and get
the longer residual of the imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is
cheap... Probably a stupid idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Gene & Rob,

I have a question for both of you. Thankfully, scale is generally not a huge
problem for me. I see it now and then, but seldom, really. And I have never
seen anything that I could identify as crawling scale. When I *have* had
scale, it appears attached to the plant, having sunk its wicked fangs in
already. Thorough searches have not produced anything further.

Am I missing something?

Diana

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing as I. Did
you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between
applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the bayer for
three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't work, or at least
not completely. When I added the IGR into the mix, it was applied as a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf surface as
possible (top and bottom), again for three consecutive weeks, within a
couple hours after watering the greenhouse in my normal way. I'm not sure
of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to water
before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a chance to be
absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more actively
transpiring right after a nice watering and more susceptible to absorbing
chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity (absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it. I don't
think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is about the same cost,
but you have to buy a whole quart... They target the same pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of imidocloprid
for the first two weeks. Both have systemic activity. I was worried that
the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated imidocloprid treatment, and I
hadn't used orthene in a while. This way I was hoping to get the
resistant ones in the first two passes, and get the longer residual of the
imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is cheap... Probably a stupid
idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

I don't think one can ever WIN the war against bugs; especially if you grow
in a greenhouse or outdoors or indoors near windows and doors and you live
on a planet with an active (or even ailing) biosphere. You may have quiet
periods with few visible problems but new infestations will always find a
way to the food and shelter we call our orchid collection. Vigilance is
required. Never ending vigilance. The best that can be hoped for is
containment and control, NOT eradication: unless you plan to destroy the
whole biosphere...


"Rob" wrote in message
...
As far as I know, you are the only person who has ever won the battle of
the scale...

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

al wrote:
I don't think one can ever WIN the war against bugs; especially if you grow
in a greenhouse or outdoors or indoors near windows and doors and you live
on a planet with an active (or even ailing) biosphere. You may have quiet
periods with few visible problems but new infestations will always find a
way to the food and shelter we call our orchid collection. Vigilance is
required. Never ending vigilance. The best that can be hoped for is
containment and control, NOT eradication: unless you plan to destroy the
whole biosphere...


Yes, this is true. But I would like to win the war against non-endemic
pests, at least. I don't think boisduval scale is native to
mid-michigan. In theory I should be able to keep that out once it is
gone (in theory). The thrips that come in from the hayfields next door
are another story.


--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Diana Kulaga wrote:
Gene & Rob,

I have a question for both of you. Thankfully, scale is generally not a huge
problem for me. I see it now and then, but seldom, really. And I have never
seen anything that I could identify as crawling scale. When I *have* had
scale, it appears attached to the plant, having sunk its wicked fangs in
already. Thorough searches have not produced anything further.

Am I missing something?


I suspect there are a lot of different kinds of things called scale.
And no doubt many different species that get lumped into a few misused
categories. My particular bane is what I've always heard called
boisduval scale. The adult scale (females, I think) are flattened
hemispheres with a somewhat hard shell, but they are easily rubbed off.
The juveniles and (perhaps) the males are small, thriplike little SOBs
that form fluffy white masses under leaves and in various nooks. I've
never wanted to have it around long enough to take a picture...

However, others have different scale. I have seen 'soft scale' which are
basically scale without the hard shell, flattened ovoids that you might
think were bald mealy bugs. In my experience they were more dense on
the infested plant than other types, but very easy to kill. I've only
ever seen it on one paph that I bought in florida. There is another
scale that I call by a latinized name of a well known vendor (I really
shouldn't put it into electrons) which I think is 'Hemispherical scale'
or some other equally useless common name. Easy to kill if you caught
it early, but evidently very hard to eradicate once established. Mealy
bugs are a type of scale, if I understand it right (I have actually seen
them move, not the other kinds).

As a general rule that is almost certainly bogus, the ones you see are
usually the females, which are large and not mobile. I think males and
juveniles are small and mobile, and can cover some ground.


--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Sometimes it's possible to learn from the past; looking back at old
knowledge with fresh eyes may give new insight. So it is with mealy bugs
and possibly even scale. The once-discredited concept in question is
'spontaneous generation'. Clearly, these bugs simply generate out of
thin air at will, defying any and all attempts at complete annihilation.
They will be with us always; it is inescapable. A never-ending war to
keep the numbers below critical level is the best mere humans can hope for.

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

I use Enstar II, orthene, and neem oil combined and get great knock-down,
long-term kill, and repellency all in one.

I recently tried the Bayer stuff alone and had pretty good knock-down in
three applications, but my heart still lies with Enstar II as a preventive.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Rob" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing as I. Did
you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between
applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the bayer for
three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't work, or at least
not completely. When I added the IGR into the mix, it was applied as a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf surface as
possible (top and bottom), again for three consecutive weeks, within a
couple hours after watering the greenhouse in my normal way. I'm not sure
of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to water
before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a chance to be
absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more actively
transpiring right after a nice watering and more susceptible to absorbing
chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity (absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it. I don't
think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is about the same cost,
but you have to buy a whole quart... They target the same pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of imidocloprid
for the first two weeks. Both have systemic activity. I was worried that
the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated imidocloprid treatment, and I
hadn't used orthene in a while. This way I was hoping to get the
resistant ones in the first two passes, and get the longer residual of the
imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is cheap... Probably a stupid
idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Diana,

When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale the momma lays eggs under
her shell. At some point the momma scale dies and protects the eggs with
her shell which gets leathery and dry. After some time the eggs hatch and a
bunch of small whitish dusty looking babies crawl out from under the shell
and look for a nice leaf to attach to. These are the crawlers. In large
quantities they could be mistaken for mealie bugs.

Gene




"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Gene & Rob,

I have a question for both of you. Thankfully, scale is generally not a
huge
problem for me. I see it now and then, but seldom, really. And I have
never
seen anything that I could identify as crawling scale. When I *have* had
scale, it appears attached to the plant, having sunk its wicked fangs in
already. Thorough searches have not produced anything further.

Am I missing something?

Diana

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing as I. Did
you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between
applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the bayer for
three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't work, or at least
not completely. When I added the IGR into the mix, it was applied as a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf surface as
possible (top and bottom), again for three consecutive weeks, within a
couple hours after watering the greenhouse in my normal way. I'm not
sure
of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to water
before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a chance to be
absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more actively
transpiring right after a nice watering and more susceptible to
absorbing
chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity (absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it. I don't
think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is about the same
cost,
but you have to buy a whole quart... They target the same pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of
imidocloprid
for the first two weeks. Both have systemic activity. I was worried
that
the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated imidocloprid treatment, and
I
hadn't used orthene in a while. This way I was hoping to get the
resistant ones in the first two passes, and get the longer residual of
the
imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is cheap... Probably a
stupid
idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Never give up....we can win this battle!



"tennis maynard" wrote in message
...
Sometimes it's possible to learn from the past; looking back at old
knowledge with fresh eyes may give new insight. So it is with mealy bugs
and possibly even scale. The once-discredited concept in question is
'spontaneous generation'. Clearly, these bugs simply generate out of
thin air at will, defying any and all attempts at complete annihilation.
They will be with us always; it is inescapable. A never-ending war to
keep the numbers below critical level is the best mere humans can hope
for.

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Ray,

What are you thoughts about the eggs living many months under sheaths and in
medium?

I think this is why we see them come back after a few weeks or months when
you think you have them gone. A long viable systemic helps kill them when
they hatch.

Gene



"Ray B" wrote in message
news:A9xth.4218$o31.1969@trndny04...
I use Enstar II, orthene, and neem oil combined and get great knock-down,
long-term kill, and repellency all in one.

I recently tried the Bayer stuff alone and had pretty good knock-down in
three applications, but my heart still lies with Enstar II as a
preventive.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Rob" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing as I. Did
you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between
applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the bayer for
three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't work, or at least
not completely. When I added the IGR into the mix, it was applied as a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf surface as
possible (top and bottom), again for three consecutive weeks, within a
couple hours after watering the greenhouse in my normal way. I'm not
sure
of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to water
before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a chance to be
absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more actively
transpiring right after a nice watering and more susceptible to
absorbing
chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity (absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it. I don't
think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is about the same
cost,
but you have to buy a whole quart... They target the same pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of
imidocloprid
for the first two weeks. Both have systemic activity. I was worried
that
the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated imidocloprid treatment, and
I
hadn't used orthene in a while. This way I was hoping to get the
resistant ones in the first two passes, and get the longer residual of
the
imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is cheap... Probably a
stupid
idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

My thought is that no systemic that lasts that long, which is why the IGR's
are so great.

Many insects can survive in a dormant stage for a very long time. Exposure
to an IGR does not affect that, but does prevent further maturation.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:swyth.6936$U81.1613@trnddc06...
Ray,

What are you thoughts about the eggs living many months under sheaths and
in
medium?

I think this is why we see them come back after a few weeks or months when
you think you have them gone. A long viable systemic helps kill them when
they hatch.

Gene



"Ray B" wrote in message
news:A9xth.4218$o31.1969@trndny04...
I use Enstar II, orthene, and neem oil combined and get great knock-down,
long-term kill, and repellency all in one.

I recently tried the Bayer stuff alone and had pretty good knock-down in
three applications, but my heart still lies with Enstar II as a
preventive.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Rob" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing as I.
Did
you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between
applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the bayer for
three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't work, or at least
not completely. When I added the IGR into the mix, it was applied as a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf surface as
possible (top and bottom), again for three consecutive weeks, within a
couple hours after watering the greenhouse in my normal way. I'm not
sure
of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to water
before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a chance to
be
absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more actively
transpiring right after a nice watering and more susceptible to
absorbing
chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity (absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it. I don't
think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is about the same
cost,
but you have to buy a whole quart... They target the same pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of
imidocloprid
for the first two weeks. Both have systemic activity. I was worried
that
the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated imidocloprid treatment,
and
I
hadn't used orthene in a while. This way I was hoping to get the
resistant ones in the first two passes, and get the longer residual of
the
imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is cheap... Probably a
stupid
idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Hi Gene,

You might find this site helpful.

http://www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/i...ine/Scale.html

Based on what is says, the timing seems right for the October outbreak
to be from eggs not killed. Not much will kill a bug in all the life
cycles.

I do not think you can assume you will get a years coverage from a
single spraying. The label you are reading was written for a seasonal
plant with seasonal bugs. Based on what I have seen assume 4 to 6
weeks.

I have used this chemical to fight fungus gnats. I talked with the rep
and he recommend monthly sprayings. The label tells you to limit
sprayings to 2 per growth cycle (I am doing this from memory so this
might not be exactly right). I was afraid that too much of a good
thing would lead to color breaks, so I never followed his advice and
followed the label limits. With three drenches you hit them pretty
hard; I am interested to know much color breaking you see in your Phals
this winter. Aug is a pretty safe month to be hitting Phals with
systemics so there is a good chance you will not see any.

Pat

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Pat,

I haven't noticed any color breaks or aberations in any of the flowers that
have formed since August.

The few crawlers I find now seem to be sluggish and stick together in a
mound.

Gene



"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Gene,

You might find this site helpful.

http://www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/i...ine/Scale.html

Based on what is says, the timing seems right for the October outbreak
to be from eggs not killed. Not much will kill a bug in all the life
cycles.

I do not think you can assume you will get a years coverage from a
single spraying. The label you are reading was written for a seasonal
plant with seasonal bugs. Based on what I have seen assume 4 to 6
weeks.

I have used this chemical to fight fungus gnats. I talked with the rep
and he recommend monthly sprayings. The label tells you to limit
sprayings to 2 per growth cycle (I am doing this from memory so this
might not be exactly right). I was afraid that too much of a good
thing would lead to color breaks, so I never followed his advice and
followed the label limits. With three drenches you hit them pretty
hard; I am interested to know much color breaking you see in your Phals
this winter. Aug is a pretty safe month to be hitting Phals with
systemics so there is a good chance you will not see any.

Pat

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Thanks for this info Pat & Gene, yes I have seen plenty of the dreaded Boisduval!
I had colour break & mutant looking flowers when I used a systemic call Cygon
a number of years ago. (No longer available)
Have used Ortho WP along with Neem. Have not tried the Bayer product?
I have been using Enstar II along with Mavrik & so far the best results
for me. I think the Mavrik is a topical treatment but the two are mixed together.
I mark & tag plants specially treated & document g/h sprays etc.

Now I am one that always experiments & have found that you have to keep on
a strict regimen forever or the buggers come back.
I have unpotted a scale infested plant, cleaned every bit of potting mix,
trimmed old roots etc., sprayed any visible bugs with alcohol, then left this
plant soaking in the Enstar/Mavrik solution over night & the next day there
were little white babies trying to escape. Unbelievable, the float & creep to
the sides of the bowl!!!
So my point being they are never gone.
Happy debugging,
--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Pat Brennan wrote:
Hi Gene,

You might find this site helpful.

http://www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/i...ine/Scale.html

Based on what is says, the timing seems right for the October outbreak
to be from eggs not killed. Not much will kill a bug in all the life
cycles.

I do not think you can assume you will get a years coverage from a
single spraying. The label you are reading was written for a seasonal
plant with seasonal bugs. Based on what I have seen assume 4 to 6
weeks.

I have used this chemical to fight fungus gnats. I talked with the
rep and he recommend monthly sprayings. The label tells you to limit
sprayings to 2 per growth cycle (I am doing this from memory so this
might not be exactly right). I was afraid that too much of a good
thing would lead to color breaks, so I never followed his advice and
followed the label limits. With three drenches you hit them pretty
hard; I am interested to know much color breaking you see in your
Phals this winter. Aug is a pretty safe month to be hitting Phals
with systemics so there is a good chance you will not see any.

Pat

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

So my point being they are never gone.

Tell me about it. I sprayed the whole collection with Orthene on Monday.
Today I found thrips crawling all over a Catt flower. Rat B********ds!

Diana

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

"When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale"........ You owe me a
keyboard, Gene!

Diana

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:dtyth.6934$U81.4308@trnddc06...
Diana,

When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale the momma lays eggs under
her shell. At some point the momma scale dies and protects the eggs with
her shell which gets leathery and dry. After some time the eggs hatch and
a
bunch of small whitish dusty looking babies crawl out from under the shell
and look for a nice leaf to attach to. These are the crawlers. In large
quantities they could be mistaken for mealie bugs.

Gene




"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Gene & Rob,

I have a question for both of you. Thankfully, scale is generally not a
huge
problem for me. I see it now and then, but seldom, really. And I have
never
seen anything that I could identify as crawling scale. When I *have* had
scale, it appears attached to the plant, having sunk its wicked fangs in
already. Thorough searches have not produced anything further.

Am I missing something?

Diana

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing as I.
Did
you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between
applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the bayer for
three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't work, or at least
not completely. When I added the IGR into the mix, it was applied as a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf surface as
possible (top and bottom), again for three consecutive weeks, within a
couple hours after watering the greenhouse in my normal way. I'm not
sure
of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to water
before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a chance to
be
absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more actively
transpiring right after a nice watering and more susceptible to
absorbing
chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity (absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it. I don't
think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is about the same
cost,
but you have to buy a whole quart... They target the same pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of
imidocloprid
for the first two weeks. Both have systemic activity. I was worried
that
the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated imidocloprid treatment,
and
I
hadn't used orthene in a while. This way I was hoping to get the
resistant ones in the first two passes, and get the longer residual of
the
imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is cheap... Probably a
stupid
idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Dianna,

After all this is "G" rated newsgroup. We can't be too graphic.

How's this "When the hot young masculine scale comes upon a sweet curvy babe
of a scale....."

Gene



"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
news:aHOth.780$ch1.474@bigfe9...
"When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale"........ You owe me a
keyboard, Gene!

Diana

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:dtyth.6934$U81.4308@trnddc06...
Diana,

When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale the momma lays eggs
under
her shell. At some point the momma scale dies and protects the eggs
with
her shell which gets leathery and dry. After some time the eggs hatch
and
a
bunch of small whitish dusty looking babies crawl out from under the
shell
and look for a nice leaf to attach to. These are the crawlers. In
large
quantities they could be mistaken for mealie bugs.

Gene




"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Gene & Rob,

I have a question for both of you. Thankfully, scale is generally not a
huge
problem for me. I see it now and then, but seldom, really. And I have
never
seen anything that I could identify as crawling scale. When I *have*
had
scale, it appears attached to the plant, having sunk its wicked fangs
in
already. Thorough searches have not produced anything further.

Am I missing something?

Diana

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing as I.
Did
you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between
applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the bayer
for
three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't work, or at
least
not completely. When I added the IGR into the mix, it was applied as
a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf surface as
possible (top and bottom), again for three consecutive weeks, within
a
couple hours after watering the greenhouse in my normal way. I'm not
sure
of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to water
before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a chance to
be
absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more
actively
transpiring right after a nice watering and more susceptible to
absorbing
chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity (absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it. I
don't
think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is about the same
cost,
but you have to buy a whole quart... They target the same pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of
imidocloprid
for the first two weeks. Both have systemic activity. I was worried
that
the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated imidocloprid treatment,
and
I
hadn't used orthene in a while. This way I was hoping to get the
resistant ones in the first two passes, and get the longer residual
of
the
imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is cheap... Probably a
stupid
idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Gene, stop!

Diana G

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:uLOth.1148$FN1.200@trnddc08...
Dianna,

After all this is "G" rated newsgroup. We can't be too graphic.

How's this "When the hot young masculine scale comes upon a sweet curvy
babe
of a scale....."

Gene



"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
news:aHOth.780$ch1.474@bigfe9...
"When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale"........ You owe me a
keyboard, Gene!

Diana

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:dtyth.6934$U81.4308@trnddc06...
Diana,

When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale the momma lays eggs
under
her shell. At some point the momma scale dies and protects the eggs
with
her shell which gets leathery and dry. After some time the eggs hatch
and
a
bunch of small whitish dusty looking babies crawl out from under the
shell
and look for a nice leaf to attach to. These are the crawlers. In
large
quantities they could be mistaken for mealie bugs.

Gene




"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Gene & Rob,

I have a question for both of you. Thankfully, scale is generally not
a
huge
problem for me. I see it now and then, but seldom, really. And I have
never
seen anything that I could identify as crawling scale. When I *have*
had
scale, it appears attached to the plant, having sunk its wicked fangs
in
already. Thorough searches have not produced anything further.

Am I missing something?

Diana

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing as I.
Did
you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between
applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the bayer
for
three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't work, or at
least
not completely. When I added the IGR into the mix, it was applied
as
a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf surface as
possible (top and bottom), again for three consecutive weeks, within
a
couple hours after watering the greenhouse in my normal way. I'm
not
sure
of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to
water
before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a chance
to
be
absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more
actively
transpiring right after a nice watering and more susceptible to
absorbing
chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity
(absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it. I
don't
think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is about the same
cost,
but you have to buy a whole quart... They target the same pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of
imidocloprid
for the first two weeks. Both have systemic activity. I was
worried
that
the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated imidocloprid treatment,
and
I
hadn't used orthene in a while. This way I was hoping to get the
resistant ones in the first two passes, and get the longer residual
of
the
imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is cheap... Probably a
stupid
idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

It's a hot humid day in the greenhouse.

The hot stud scale slides over next to the hot blob of a babe, "Hey slimy,
how about you and me make some wild passionate scale love?" "I so love the
shape of your probiscus." "Is there room under that shell for both of us?"

Awwww....young scale love.



"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Gene, stop!

Diana G

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:uLOth.1148$FN1.200@trnddc08...
Dianna,

After all this is "G" rated newsgroup. We can't be too graphic.

How's this "When the hot young masculine scale comes upon a sweet curvy
babe
of a scale....."

Gene



"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
news:aHOth.780$ch1.474@bigfe9...
"When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale"........ You owe me a
keyboard, Gene!

Diana

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:dtyth.6934$U81.4308@trnddc06...
Diana,

When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale the momma lays eggs
under
her shell. At some point the momma scale dies and protects the eggs
with
her shell which gets leathery and dry. After some time the eggs
hatch
and
a
bunch of small whitish dusty looking babies crawl out from under the
shell
and look for a nice leaf to attach to. These are the crawlers. In
large
quantities they could be mistaken for mealie bugs.

Gene




"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Gene & Rob,

I have a question for both of you. Thankfully, scale is generally
not
a
huge
problem for me. I see it now and then, but seldom, really. And I
have
never
seen anything that I could identify as crawling scale. When I *have*
had
scale, it appears attached to the plant, having sunk its wicked
fangs
in
already. Thorough searches have not produced anything further.

Am I missing something?

Diana

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing as
I.
Did
you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between
applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the
bayer
for
three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't work, or at
least
not completely. When I added the IGR into the mix, it was applied
as
a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf surface
as
possible (top and bottom), again for three consecutive weeks,
within
a
couple hours after watering the greenhouse in my normal way. I'm
not
sure
of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to
water
before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a chance
to
be
absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more
actively
transpiring right after a nice watering and more susceptible to
absorbing
chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity
(absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it. I
don't
think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is about the
same
cost,
but you have to buy a whole quart... They target the same
pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of
imidocloprid
for the first two weeks. Both have systemic activity. I was
worried
that
the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated imidocloprid
treatment,
and
I
hadn't used orthene in a while. This way I was hoping to get the
resistant ones in the first two passes, and get the longer
residual
of
the
imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is cheap... Probably a
stupid
idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

And.....she says, flashing her scaly eyelashes, so weigh me!

--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Gene Schurg wrote:
It's a hot humid day in the greenhouse.

The hot stud scale slides over next to the hot blob of a babe, "Hey
slimy, how about you and me make some wild passionate scale love?" "I
so love the shape of your probiscus." "Is there room under that
shell for both of us?"

Awwww....young scale love.



"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Gene, stop!

Diana G

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:uLOth.1148$FN1.200@trnddc08...
Dianna,

After all this is "G" rated newsgroup. We can't be too graphic.

How's this "When the hot young masculine scale comes upon a sweet
curvy babe
of a scale....."

Gene



"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
news:aHOth.780$ch1.474@bigfe9...
"When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale"........ You owe
me a keyboard, Gene!

Diana

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:dtyth.6934$U81.4308@trnddc06...
Diana,

When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale the momma lays
eggs under her shell. At some point the momma scale dies and
protects the eggs with her shell which gets leathery and dry.
After some time the eggs hatch and a
bunch of small whitish dusty looking babies crawl out from under
the shell and look for a nice leaf to attach to. These are the
crawlers. In large quantities they could be mistaken for mealie
bugs.

Gene




"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Gene & Rob,

I have a question for both of you. Thankfully, scale is
generally not a
huge
problem for me. I see it now and then, but seldom, really. And I
have never seen anything that I could identify as crawling
scale. When I *have* had scale, it appears attached to the
plant, having sunk its wicked fangs in already. Thorough
searches have not produced anything further.

Am I missing something?

Diana

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing
as I. Did
you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between
applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the
bayer for three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't
work, or at least not completely. When I added the IGR into
the mix, it was applied as
a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf
surface as possible (top and bottom), again for three
consecutive weeks, within a couple hours after watering the
greenhouse in my normal way. I'm not
sure
of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to
water
before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a
chance to
be
absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more
actively transpiring right after a nice watering and more
susceptible to absorbing chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity
(absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it.
I don't think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is
about the same cost, but you have to buy a whole quart... They
target the same pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of
imidocloprid for the first two weeks. Both have systemic
activity. I was worried
that
the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated imidocloprid
treatment, and
I
hadn't used orthene in a while. This way I was hoping to get
the resistant ones in the first two passes, and get the longer
residual
of
the
imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is cheap...
Probably a stupid idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Et tu, Wendy?!

Diana

"wendy7" wrote in message
...
And.....she says, flashing her scaly eyelashes, so weigh me!

--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Gene Schurg wrote:
It's a hot humid day in the greenhouse.

The hot stud scale slides over next to the hot blob of a babe, "Hey
slimy, how about you and me make some wild passionate scale love?" "I
so love the shape of your probiscus." "Is there room under that
shell for both of us?"

Awwww....young scale love.



"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Gene, stop!

Diana G

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:uLOth.1148$FN1.200@trnddc08...
Dianna,

After all this is "G" rated newsgroup. We can't be too graphic.

How's this "When the hot young masculine scale comes upon a sweet
curvy babe
of a scale....."

Gene



"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
news:aHOth.780$ch1.474@bigfe9...
"When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale"........ You owe
me a keyboard, Gene!

Diana

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:dtyth.6934$U81.4308@trnddc06...
Diana,

When the momma scale mates with the daddy scale the momma lays
eggs under her shell. At some point the momma scale dies and
protects the eggs with her shell which gets leathery and dry.
After some time the eggs hatch and a
bunch of small whitish dusty looking babies crawl out from under
the shell and look for a nice leaf to attach to. These are the
crawlers. In large quantities they could be mistaken for mealie
bugs.

Gene




"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Gene & Rob,

I have a question for both of you. Thankfully, scale is
generally not a
huge
problem for me. I see it now and then, but seldom, really. And I
have never seen anything that I could identify as crawling
scale. When I *have* had scale, it appears attached to the
plant, having sunk its wicked fangs in already. Thorough
searches have not produced anything further.

Am I missing something?

Diana

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Rob,

It is interesting that you could be observing the same thing
as I. Did
you
spray or drench with the Bayer product? Did you water between
applications
where the plants could suck up water without the chemicals?


I tried a drench (trash can and pump with hose) with just the
bayer for three consecutive weeks in early summer. That didn't
work, or at least not completely. When I added the IGR into
the mix, it was applied as
a
spray to the point of complete saturation of as much leaf
surface as possible (top and bottom), again for three
consecutive weeks, within a couple hours after watering the
greenhouse in my normal way. I'm not
sure
of the rationale of that, but I did have one. It made sense to
water
before so that I wouldn't wash out chemical before it had a
chance to
be
absorbed, and I thought that perhaps the leaves would be more
actively transpiring right after a nice watering and more
susceptible to absorbing chemical.

Distance is supposed to have translaminar systemic activity
(absorbed
through the leaves), which is one of the reasons I picked it.
I don't think EnstarII is systemic (I could be wrong). It is
about the same cost, but you have to buy a whole quart... They
target the same pathway.

And actually, come to think of it, I used orthene instead of
imidocloprid for the first two weeks. Both have systemic
activity. I was worried
that
the bugs were becoming resistant to repeated imidocloprid
treatment, and
I
hadn't used orthene in a while. This way I was hoping to get
the resistant ones in the first two passes, and get the longer
residual
of
the
imidocloprid on the last one. And orthene is cheap...
Probably a stupid idea.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Based on what that web site said:

The hot stud scale slides over next to the hot blob of a babe, "Hey
slimy, how about you and me make some wild passionate scale love?"
And the babe blob says slime off and then takes care of it herself.

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

I don' which is more frightening to come across in rgo and abpo, this or the
bizarre level of spam we have been experiencing lately.

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
ups.com...
Based on what that web site said:

The hot stud scale slides over next to the hot blob of a babe, "Hey
slimy, how about you and me make some wild passionate scale love?"
And the babe blob says slime off and then takes care of it herself.

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

What is frightening is this steamy story could be happening in your
greenhouse Al! yup....they're having sex in you cattleyas....mmmmm With
you standing right there.....prevert!



"al" wrote in message news:yvRth.2755$R65.2306@trnddc01...
I don' which is more frightening to come across in rgo and abpo, this or
the
bizarre level of spam we have been experiencing lately.

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
ups.com...
Based on what that web site said:

The hot stud scale slides over next to the hot blob of a babe, "Hey
slimy, how about you and me make some wild passionate scale love?"
And the babe blob says slime off and then takes care of it herself.

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

It was a dark and stormy night.............

Diana

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:7HRth.7541$yj7.1014@trndny08...
What is frightening is this steamy story could be happening in your
greenhouse Al! yup....they're having sex in you cattleyas....mmmmm With
you standing right there.....prevert!



"al" wrote in message
news:yvRth.2755$R65.2306@trnddc01...
I don' which is more frightening to come across in rgo and abpo, this or
the
bizarre level of spam we have been experiencing lately.

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
ups.com...
Based on what that web site said:

The hot stud scale slides over next to the hot blob of a babe, "Hey
slimy, how about you and me make some wild passionate scale love?"
And the babe blob says slime off and then takes care of it herself.

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

I KNOW it IS happening out there. The place is littered with scaley porn.
Gross stuff, that scale porn. It's like that line in the movie "Clerks
Two", "This is so disgusting, I can't look away."

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:7HRth.7541$yj7.1014@trndny08...
What is frightening is this steamy story could be happening in your
greenhouse Al! yup....they're having sex in you cattleyas....mmmmm
With
you standing right there.....prevert!



"al" wrote in message
news:yvRth.2755$R65.2306@trnddc01...
I don' which is more frightening to come across in rgo and abpo, this or
the
bizarre level of spam we have been experiencing lately.

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
ups.com...
Based on what that web site said:

The hot stud scale slides over next to the hot blob of a babe, "Hey
slimy, how about you and me make some wild passionate scale love?"
And the babe blob says slime off and then takes care of it herself.

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Wendy,

You probably don't need to try the Bayer product. Imidacloprid is the
chemical that kills the bugs in both Mavrik and the Bayer Shrub & Brush.
Mavrik is available in a far more concentated product so it costs more but
goes much further.

From what I have read do not rely on it to kill mites. Plants treated with
Imidacloprid may even attract them. Maybe that's why I have (or had if the
soap worked) them.

Bob

"wendy7" wrote in message
...
Thanks for this info Pat & Gene, yes I have seen plenty of the dreaded
Boisduval!
I had colour break & mutant looking flowers when I used a systemic call
Cygon
a number of years ago. (No longer available)
Have used Ortho WP along with Neem. Have not tried the Bayer product?
I have been using Enstar II along with Mavrik & so far the best results
for me. I think the Mavrik is a topical treatment but the two are mixed
together.
I mark & tag plants specially treated & document g/h sprays etc.

Now I am one that always experiments & have found that you have to keep
on
a strict regimen forever or the buggers come back.
I have unpotted a scale infested plant, cleaned every bit of potting mix,
trimmed old roots etc., sprayed any visible bugs with alcohol, then left
this
plant soaking in the Enstar/Mavrik solution over night & the next day
there
were little white babies trying to escape. Unbelievable, the float & creep
to
the sides of the bowl!!!
So my point being they are never gone.
Happy debugging,
--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Pat Brennan wrote:
Hi Gene,

You might find this site helpful.

http://www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/i...ine/Scale.html

Based on what is says, the timing seems right for the October outbreak
to be from eggs not killed. Not much will kill a bug in all the life
cycles.

I do not think you can assume you will get a years coverage from a
single spraying. The label you are reading was written for a seasonal
plant with seasonal bugs. Based on what I have seen assume 4 to 6
weeks.

I have used this chemical to fight fungus gnats. I talked with the
rep and he recommend monthly sprayings. The label tells you to limit
sprayings to 2 per growth cycle (I am doing this from memory so this
might not be exactly right). I was afraid that too much of a good
thing would lead to color breaks, so I never followed his advice and
followed the label limits. With three drenches you hit them pretty
hard; I am interested to know much color breaking you see in your
Phals this winter. Aug is a pretty safe month to be hitting Phals
with systemics so there is a good chance you will not see any.

Pat

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Thanks for that Bob, I don't research much.
Will check for mites.

--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Bob Walsh wrote:
Wendy,

You probably don't need to try the Bayer product. Imidacloprid is the
chemical that kills the bugs in both Mavrik and the Bayer Shrub &
Brush. Mavrik is available in a far more concentated product so it
costs more but goes much further.

From what I have read do not rely on it to kill mites. Plants treated
with Imidacloprid may even attract them. Maybe that's why I have (or
had if the soap worked) them.

Bob

"wendy7" wrote in message
...
Thanks for this info Pat & Gene, yes I have seen plenty of the
dreaded Boisduval!
I had colour break & mutant looking flowers when I used a systemic
call Cygon
a number of years ago. (No longer available)
Have used Ortho WP along with Neem. Have not tried the Bayer
product? I have been using Enstar II along with Mavrik & so far
the best results for me. I think the Mavrik is a topical treatment
but the two are mixed together.
I mark & tag plants specially treated & document g/h sprays etc.

Now I am one that always experiments & have found that you have
to keep on
a strict regimen forever or the buggers come back.
I have unpotted a scale infested plant, cleaned every bit of potting
mix, trimmed old roots etc., sprayed any visible bugs with alcohol,
then left this
plant soaking in the Enstar/Mavrik solution over night & the next day
there
were little white babies trying to escape. Unbelievable, the float &
creep to
the sides of the bowl!!!
So my point being they are never gone.
Happy debugging,
--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Pat Brennan wrote:
Hi Gene,

You might find this site helpful.

http://www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/i...ine/Scale.html

Based on what is says, the timing seems right for the October
outbreak to be from eggs not killed. Not much will kill a bug in
all the life cycles.

I do not think you can assume you will get a years coverage from a
single spraying. The label you are reading was written for a
seasonal plant with seasonal bugs. Based on what I have seen
assume 4 to 6 weeks.

I have used this chemical to fight fungus gnats. I talked with the
rep and he recommend monthly sprayings. The label tells you to
limit sprayings to 2 per growth cycle (I am doing this from memory
so this might not be exactly right). I was afraid that too much of
a good thing would lead to color breaks, so I never followed his
advice and followed the label limits. With three drenches you hit
them pretty hard; I am interested to know much color breaking you
see in your Phals this winter. Aug is a pretty safe month to be
hitting Phals with systemics so there is a good chance you will not
see any. Pat

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)
 

Bob Walsh wrote:
Wendy,

You probably don't need to try the Bayer product. Imidacloprid is the
chemical that kills the bugs in both Mavrik and the Bayer Shrub & Brush.
Mavrik is available in a far more concentated product so it costs more but
goes much further.

From what I have read do not rely on it to kill mites. Plants treated with
Imidacloprid may even attract them.


Yes, that's a common side effect. I believe it's even listed in the fact
sheets for some of the products containing the chemical. They suggest
the use of a miticide as an alternating treatment.

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)Need name plz
 

I was checking my poison cabinet & noticed that I will soon be out of Mavrik.
So could someone tell me what to look for in the Bayer product section.
As I recall the Mavrik & Enstar II cost me over $100 so if the Bayer is cheaper
then that would be great.
--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Bob Walsh wrote:
Wendy,

You probably don't need to try the Bayer product. Imidacloprid is the
chemical that kills the bugs in both Mavrik and the Bayer Shrub &
Brush. Mavrik is available in a far more concentated product so it
costs more but goes much further.

From what I have read do not rely on it to kill mites. Plants treated
with Imidacloprid may even attract them. Maybe that's why I have (or
had if the soap worked) them.

Bob

"wendy7" wrote in message
...
Thanks for this info Pat & Gene, yes I have seen plenty of the
dreaded Boisduval!
I had colour break & mutant looking flowers when I used a systemic
call Cygon
a number of years ago. (No longer available)
Have used Ortho WP along with Neem. Have not tried the Bayer
product? I have been using Enstar II along with Mavrik & so far
the best results for me. I think the Mavrik is a topical treatment
but the two are mixed together.
I mark & tag plants specially treated & document g/h sprays etc.

Now I am one that always experiments & have found that you have
to keep on
a strict regimen forever or the buggers come back.
I have unpotted a scale infested plant, cleaned every bit of potting
mix, trimmed old roots etc., sprayed any visible bugs with alcohol,
then left this
plant soaking in the Enstar/Mavrik solution over night & the next day
there
were little white babies trying to escape. Unbelievable, the float &
creep to
the sides of the bowl!!!
So my point being they are never gone.
Happy debugging,
--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Pat Brennan wrote:
Hi Gene,

You might find this site helpful.

http://www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/i...ine/Scale.html

Based on what is says, the timing seems right for the October
outbreak to be from eggs not killed. Not much will kill a bug in
all the life cycles.

I do not think you can assume you will get a years coverage from a
single spraying. The label you are reading was written for a
seasonal plant with seasonal bugs. Based on what I have seen
assume 4 to 6 weeks.

I have used this chemical to fight fungus gnats. I talked with the
rep and he recommend monthly sprayings. The label tells you to
limit sprayings to 2 per growth cycle (I am doing this from memory
so this might not be exactly right). I was afraid that too much of
a good thing would lead to color breaks, so I never followed his
advice and followed the label limits. With three drenches you hit
them pretty hard; I am interested to know much color breaking you
see in your Phals this winter. Aug is a pretty safe month to be
hitting Phals with systemics so there is a good chance you will not
see any. Pat

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)Need name plz
 

Wendy,

I forget where you live. I find this at Lowes or Home Depot in the garden
section. The Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub Insect Control comes in a blue
quart bottle for about $18.00. They also make a rose spray in the same line
that is of lesser concentration but I used the tree and shrub stuff.

A 32 oz bottle will make 32 gallons of mix at one oz to the gallon.

Gene



"wendy7" wrote in message
...
I was checking my poison cabinet & noticed that I will soon be out of
Mavrik.
So could someone tell me what to look for in the Bayer product section.
As I recall the Mavrik & Enstar II cost me over $100 so if the Bayer is
cheaper
then that would be great.
--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Bob Walsh wrote:
Wendy,

You probably don't need to try the Bayer product. Imidacloprid is the
chemical that kills the bugs in both Mavrik and the Bayer Shrub &
Brush. Mavrik is available in a far more concentated product so it
costs more but goes much further.

From what I have read do not rely on it to kill mites. Plants treated
with Imidacloprid may even attract them. Maybe that's why I have (or
had if the soap worked) them.

Bob

"wendy7" wrote in message
...
Thanks for this info Pat & Gene, yes I have seen plenty of the
dreaded Boisduval!
I had colour break & mutant looking flowers when I used a systemic
call Cygon
a number of years ago. (No longer available)
Have used Ortho WP along with Neem. Have not tried the Bayer
product? I have been using Enstar II along with Mavrik & so far
the best results for me. I think the Mavrik is a topical treatment
but the two are mixed together.
I mark & tag plants specially treated & document g/h sprays etc.

Now I am one that always experiments & have found that you have
to keep on
a strict regimen forever or the buggers come back.
I have unpotted a scale infested plant, cleaned every bit of potting
mix, trimmed old roots etc., sprayed any visible bugs with alcohol,
then left this
plant soaking in the Enstar/Mavrik solution over night & the next day
there
were little white babies trying to escape. Unbelievable, the float &
creep to
the sides of the bowl!!!
So my point being they are never gone.
Happy debugging,
--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Pat Brennan wrote:
Hi Gene,

You might find this site helpful.

http://www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/i...ine/Scale.html

Based on what is says, the timing seems right for the October
outbreak to be from eggs not killed. Not much will kill a bug in
all the life cycles.

I do not think you can assume you will get a years coverage from a
single spraying. The label you are reading was written for a
seasonal plant with seasonal bugs. Based on what I have seen
assume 4 to 6 weeks.

I have used this chemical to fight fungus gnats. I talked with the
rep and he recommend monthly sprayings. The label tells you to
limit sprayings to 2 per growth cycle (I am doing this from memory
so this might not be exactly right). I was afraid that too much of
a good thing would lead to color breaks, so I never followed his
advice and followed the label limits. With three drenches you hit
them pretty hard; I am interested to know much color breaking you
see in your Phals this winter. Aug is a pretty safe month to be
hitting Phals with systemics so there is a good chance you will not
see any. Pat

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)Need name plz
 

Thanks Gene, live & grow zone 9/10, S.Calif.

--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Gene Schurg wrote:
Wendy,

I forget where you live. I find this at Lowes or Home Depot in the
garden section. The Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub Insect Control
comes in a blue quart bottle for about $18.00. They also make a rose
spray in the same line that is of lesser concentration but I used the
tree and shrub stuff.

A 32 oz bottle will make 32 gallons of mix at one oz to the gallon.

Gene



"wendy7" wrote in message
...
I was checking my poison cabinet & noticed that I will soon be out
of Mavrik. So could someone tell me what to look for in the Bayer
product section. As I recall the Mavrik & Enstar II cost me over
$100 so if the Bayer is cheaper then that would be great.
--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Bob Walsh wrote:
Wendy,

You probably don't need to try the Bayer product. Imidacloprid is
the chemical that kills the bugs in both Mavrik and the Bayer Shrub
& Brush. Mavrik is available in a far more concentated product so it
costs more but goes much further.

From what I have read do not rely on it to kill mites. Plants
treated with Imidacloprid may even attract them. Maybe that's why I
have (or had if the soap worked) them.

Bob

"wendy7" wrote in message
...
Thanks for this info Pat & Gene, yes I have seen plenty of the
dreaded Boisduval!
I had colour break & mutant looking flowers when I used a systemic
call Cygon
a number of years ago. (No longer available)
Have used Ortho WP along with Neem. Have not tried the Bayer
product? I have been using Enstar II along with Mavrik & so far
the best results for me. I think the Mavrik is a topical treatment
but the two are mixed together.
I mark & tag plants specially treated & document g/h sprays etc.

Now I am one that always experiments & have found that you have
to keep on
a strict regimen forever or the buggers come back.
I have unpotted a scale infested plant, cleaned every bit of
potting mix, trimmed old roots etc., sprayed any visible bugs with
alcohol, then left this
plant soaking in the Enstar/Mavrik solution over night & the next
day there
were little white babies trying to escape. Unbelievable, the float
& creep to
the sides of the bowl!!!
So my point being they are never gone.
Happy debugging,
--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Pat Brennan wrote:
Hi Gene,

You might find this site helpful.

http://www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/i...ine/Scale.html

Based on what is says, the timing seems right for the October
outbreak to be from eggs not killed. Not much will kill a bug in
all the life cycles.

I do not think you can assume you will get a years coverage from a
single spraying. The label you are reading was written for a
seasonal plant with seasonal bugs. Based on what I have seen
assume 4 to 6 weeks.

I have used this chemical to fight fungus gnats. I talked with
the rep and he recommend monthly sprayings. The label tells you
to limit sprayings to 2 per growth cycle (I am doing this from
memory so this might not be exactly right). I was afraid that
too much of a good thing would lead to color breaks, so I never
followed his advice and followed the label limits. With three
drenches you hit them pretty hard; I am interested to know much
color breaking you see in your Phals this winter. Aug is a
pretty safe month to be hitting Phals with systemics so there is
a good chance you will not see any. Pat

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)Need name plz
 

OK...so Home Depot and Lowes are there.

Sitting in my living room in northern Virginia you forget sometimes that
people on this newgroup could be anywhere in the world.



"wendy7" wrote in message
...
Thanks Gene, live & grow zone 9/10, S.Calif.

--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Gene Schurg wrote:
Wendy,

I forget where you live. I find this at Lowes or Home Depot in the
garden section. The Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub Insect Control
comes in a blue quart bottle for about $18.00. They also make a rose
spray in the same line that is of lesser concentration but I used the
tree and shrub stuff.

A 32 oz bottle will make 32 gallons of mix at one oz to the gallon.

Gene



"wendy7" wrote in message
...
I was checking my poison cabinet & noticed that I will soon be out
of Mavrik. So could someone tell me what to look for in the Bayer
product section. As I recall the Mavrik & Enstar II cost me over
$100 so if the Bayer is cheaper then that would be great.
--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Bob Walsh wrote:
Wendy,

You probably don't need to try the Bayer product. Imidacloprid is
the chemical that kills the bugs in both Mavrik and the Bayer Shrub
& Brush. Mavrik is available in a far more concentated product so it
costs more but goes much further.

From what I have read do not rely on it to kill mites. Plants
treated with Imidacloprid may even attract them. Maybe that's why I
have (or had if the soap worked) them.

Bob

"wendy7" wrote in message
...
Thanks for this info Pat & Gene, yes I have seen plenty of the
dreaded Boisduval!
I had colour break & mutant looking flowers when I used a systemic
call Cygon
a number of years ago. (No longer available)
Have used Ortho WP along with Neem. Have not tried the Bayer
product? I have been using Enstar II along with Mavrik & so far
the best results for me. I think the Mavrik is a topical treatment
but the two are mixed together.
I mark & tag plants specially treated & document g/h sprays etc.

Now I am one that always experiments & have found that you have
to keep on
a strict regimen forever or the buggers come back.
I have unpotted a scale infested plant, cleaned every bit of
potting mix, trimmed old roots etc., sprayed any visible bugs with
alcohol, then left this
plant soaking in the Enstar/Mavrik solution over night & the next
day there
were little white babies trying to escape. Unbelievable, the float
& creep to
the sides of the bowl!!!
So my point being they are never gone.
Happy debugging,
--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Pat Brennan wrote:
Hi Gene,

You might find this site helpful.

http://www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/i...ine/Scale.html

Based on what is says, the timing seems right for the October
outbreak to be from eggs not killed. Not much will kill a bug in
all the life cycles.

I do not think you can assume you will get a years coverage from a
single spraying. The label you are reading was written for a
seasonal plant with seasonal bugs. Based on what I have seen
assume 4 to 6 weeks.

I have used this chemical to fight fungus gnats. I talked with
the rep and he recommend monthly sprayings. The label tells you
to limit sprayings to 2 per growth cycle (I am doing this from
memory so this might not be exactly right). I was afraid that
too much of a good thing would lead to color breaks, so I never
followed his advice and followed the label limits. With three
drenches you hit them pretty hard; I am interested to know much
color breaking you see in your Phals this winter. Aug is a
pretty safe month to be hitting Phals with systemics so there is
a good chance you will not see any. Pat

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)Need name plz
 

Yes Thanks

--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email invalid

The battle of the scale (not the diet kind)Need name plz
 

"Fog Effects
When you place dry ice into some warm or hot water, clouds of white
fog are created. This white fog is not the CO2 gas, but rather it is
condensed water vapor, mixed in with the invisible CO2. The extreme
cold causes the water vapor to condense into clouds. The fog is heavy,
being carried by the CO2, and will settle to the bottom of a
container, and can be poured. You can produce enough ground - hugging
fog to fill a medium sized room with a pound or so of dry ice. Do not
allow anyone to lay down in this fog, or allow babies or pets into it,
as CO2 gas does not support life. " Quoted from the web........

If (when) I had/have a green house I would/will seal the bottom 6 foot
or so as best I could and put a tub of water in the center and throw
one pound chunks of dry ice in it till the fog was 6 foot deep and
keep at it for a while. Seems a cheap way to kill everything but
plants in a greenhouse. Be sure to tie the grand kids to a bedstead
during the "kill-a-thon" ;-))
Joe T


On Jan 26, 9:59?pm, "wendy7" wrote:
Yes Thanks

--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email invalid