AOS forum
 

I have been unable to access the aos forum for 2 days...anyone else able to
get it?

Tennis

AOS forum
 

I just tried and got a blank page.
"tennis" wrote in message
...
I have been unable to access the aos forum for 2 days...anyone else able
to
get it?

Tennis

AOS forum
 

Tennis,

I bet they are installing their new forum software - I saw Andy Easton
posting about it over the last few weeks, and I've heard from people at the
Society meeting in SF that every post will have to be approved by a
moderator before it's made public.

I've given up on the AOS forum and I am probably not going to renew my AOS
membership. And if I am ever introduced to Andy Easton I am going to simply
excuse myself and walk away. His unprofessionalism on the AOS forum the last
few weeks has been beyond appalling.

-Eric in SF

"tennis" wrote in message
...
I have been unable to access the aos forum for 2 days...anyone else able
to
get it?

AOS forum
 

Could you elaborate? What did he do?

"Eric Hunt" wrote in message
...
Tennis,

I bet they are installing their new forum software - I saw Andy Easton
posting about it over the last few weeks, and I've heard from people at
the
Society meeting in SF that every post will have to be approved by a
moderator before it's made public.

I've given up on the AOS forum and I am probably not going to renew my AOS
membership. And if I am ever introduced to Andy Easton I am going to
simply
excuse myself and walk away. His unprofessionalism on the AOS forum the
last
few weeks has been beyond appalling.

-Eric in SF

"tennis" wrote in message
...
I have been unable to access the aos forum for 2 days...anyone else able
to
get it?

AOS forum
 

Jerry,

Fully participating in vicious childish personal attacks on the forum while
posting as a staff member of the AOS. Yes, they were in response to others
doing the same, but a professional would have simply not taken the flame
bait.

-Eric in SF

"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
Could you elaborate? What did he do?

AOS forum
 

In all honesty I see that forum as Cliquey and pretentious.

I don't go there much at all, they have nothing to offer me.

"Eric Hunt" wrote in message
...
Jerry,

Fully participating in vicious childish personal attacks on the forum
while
posting as a staff member of the AOS. Yes, they were in response to others
doing the same, but a professional would have simply not taken the flame
bait.

-Eric in SF

"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
Could you elaborate? What did he do?

AOS forum
 

tennis wrote in message ...
I have been unable to access the aos forum for 2 days...anyone else able to
get it?

Tennis

I didn't have any trouble with it yesterday or the day before. I have
had problems in the post when no one else seemed to -- I suspect it's
a problem with the networks, not the forum itself.

AOS forum
 

It goes even farther than that. Some of the advice he gave in the magazine's
Q&A column advised building against code, and made light of a certain
state's politics (It may have been California, but I can't recall right now)
both out of the range for a Q&A column. While Andy might be a great
raconteur, unfortunately it doesn't carry over into print. Eric has alluded
to his unprofessional responses on the AOS Forum. Some of which, IMHO, were
down right mean.

I like Andy Easton. He has been very nice to me. He has helped me of his own
volition without my asking for it. Therefore the meanness of some of his
posts on the Forum I take to be out of character, since my personal
experience with the man has been otherwise. I can only assume that working
for the AOS was more stressful that he imagined when he took on the job. I
may be wrong, but that's how I'm choosing to rectify the dichotomy between
my personal experience with the guy and his actions (or people's
interpretations of his actions).

That said, I too have stopped posting on the Forum. I find it cliquish.
Which could be an amazing comment coming from me, because OrchidSafari has
been labeled cliquish to the extreme. That's why I persisted in posting to
the Forum, because I knew OrchidSafari wasn't really cliquish, we'd talk to
anyone, so I assumed the same misperception applied to the Forum. Not so. I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the clique say the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post went unread,
for all I knew. I don't know about you guys, but it takes me a long time to
write a post. I read and re-read it several times to be sure it says what I
really want it to, then after that I read it again. It probably it takes me
30-45 minutes to write what seemingly is a simple post. So why work so hard
just to be ignored? So I left. Not that anyone noticed, LOL!! But my orchids
have been watered and fed every week now that I'm no longer wasting time
writing for the Forum, and I've won 2 AOS awards. And I've lost 31.2 pounds
since I stopped hanging out on the computer in general. So there.

A note about OrchidSafari, for those of you who've tried it and gave up.
Please come back, because I'm sick of talking to the same old people. *G* To
my everlasting chagrin 95% of the talk on OS isn't about orchids. But hey. I
don't moderate the talk. We just have a Credo - a code of civility - and if
people want to talk about their grandkids, then there you are.... HOWEVER! I
take the attitude that you get the chat room you make, and if you don't like
the subject stop lurking and change it back to orchids. But do it nicely
please, we *do* have a Credo to uphold. *G*. That said I think our classes
are still one of the best orchid features on the web (held the second
Wednesday of the month, and please don't interupt the speaker!!). One of
these days I'll get control of the domain name, and then I'll be able to
move the archives all to one place, instead of having so many scattered
archives.

Lastly, rgo remains the best place on the web for orchid information, IMHO.
The tenor of conversation can be at any level here, and it can get pretty
complex, which I like. Plus no one has even tried to set themselves up as
newsgroup king because they'll get ripped a new asshole if they do (*G*). It
like the wild west.

Well, I seem to have blathered on long enough. So I'll shut up now.

K Barrett


"Eric Hunt" wrote in message
...
Jerry,

Fully participating in vicious childish personal attacks on the forum
while
posting as a staff member of the AOS. Yes, they were in response to others
doing the same, but a professional would have simply not taken the flame
bait.

-Eric in SF

"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
Could you elaborate? What did he do?

AOS forum
 

I've read the AOS postings for the past couple of months. Some of the stuff
that goes on there is childish and just plain stupid. It's a shame that
adults can't rise above the comments that are made there.

I also find the format there difficult to read. You have to scroll through
so many postings to find a topic that interest you.

All in all, I agree with KB that RGO is the place to hang out. Although we
do have a few tense posts now and then, overall this is a great group and
meets all of my needs.

OK.....GROUP HUG!

Good Growing,
Gene

AOS forum
 

Okay, now it's time for the death ray...

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
thlink.net...

OK.....GROUP HUG!

AOS forum
 

Some of the advice he gave in the magazine's Q&A column advised building
against code

I saw that. Whew. What one might say quietly and privately was thrown out
for all to ponder, including any building inspectors who might have read it.

About the AOS forum, I made an attempt to get involved a couple of years
ago, found it non-inclusive, political and a pain to navigate. Here,
newbies are welcomed with open arms. So here I am, and here I stay.

Diana

AOS forum
 

Prefer the group hug to the death ray!

Diana

"Al" wrote in message
...
Okay, now it's time for the death ray...

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
thlink.net...

OK.....GROUP HUG!

AOS forum
 

LOL! Warn people before you do that! Half my beverage came out my nose!
(Water, not Pacifico, alas!)

K Barrett

"Al" wrote in message
...
Okay, now it's time for the death ray...

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
thlink.net...

OK.....GROUP HUG!

AOS forum
 

Did someone call me?

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!


"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
thlink.net...
Prefer the group hug to the death ray!

Diana

"Al" wrote in message
...
Okay, now it's time for the death ray...

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
thlink.net...

OK.....GROUP HUG!

AOS forum
 

I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the clique say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening to me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO :(

AOS forum
 

OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment. I, too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the clique say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening to me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO :(

AOS forum
 

Ray & Jerry,

I read your messages and acknoledge them! grin

This group is much more relaxed and laid back than the uptight AOS Forum.

Good growing,
Gene



"Ray" wrote in message
...
OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment. I,
too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the clique
say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening to me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO :(

AOS forum
 

Ray & Jerry,

I read your messages and acknoledge them! grin

This group is much more relaxed and laid back than the uptight AOS Forum.

Good growing,
Gene



"Ray" wrote in message
...
OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment. I,
too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the clique
say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening to me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO :(

AOS forum
 

then dammit i am calling for a revolution

we need more uptightness in here


SIGH and we call ourselves an orchid group!!!

where is all the condensation around here, and im not talkin about the
humidity

GRIN

Jim

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
Ray & Jerry,

I read your messages and acknoledge them! grin

This group is much more relaxed and laid back than the uptight AOS Forum.

Good growing,
Gene



"Ray" wrote in message
...
OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment. I,
too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the clique
say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening to
me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO :(

AOS forum
 

:) I should add that USUALLY I do get a response :) And I can't comment on
the relative "uptightness" since I haven't posted on the AOS forums...
Maybe I'll try it.

"Jim S" wrote in message
om...
then dammit i am calling for a revolution

we need more uptightness in here


SIGH and we call ourselves an orchid group!!!

where is all the condensation around here, and im not talkin about the
humidity

GRIN

Jim

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
Ray & Jerry,

I read your messages and acknoledge them! grin

This group is much more relaxed and laid back than the uptight AOS
Forum.

Good growing,
Gene



"Ray" wrote in message
...
OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment. I,
too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the
clique
say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post
went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening
to
me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO :(

AOS forum
 

can't be uptight, I read to unwind & enjoy everyone's messages here. I agree
with the comments about off track comments. we can have our fun, but still
stay on topic. To burn someone with a message is uncalled for.

Diane

"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
:) I should add that USUALLY I do get a response :) And I can't comment
on
the relative "uptightness" since I haven't posted on the AOS forums...
Maybe I'll try it.

"Jim S" wrote in message
om...
then dammit i am calling for a revolution

we need more uptightness in here


SIGH and we call ourselves an orchid group!!!

where is all the condensation around here, and im not talkin about the
humidity

GRIN

Jim

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
Ray & Jerry,

I read your messages and acknoledge them! grin

This group is much more relaxed and laid back than the uptight AOS
Forum.

Good growing,
Gene



"Ray" wrote in message
...
OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment.
I,
too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the
clique
say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post
went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening
to
me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO :(

AOS forum
 

can't be uptight, I read to unwind & enjoy everyone's messages here. I agree
with the comments about off track comments. we can have our fun, but still
stay on topic. To burn someone with a message is uncalled for.

Diane

What drives me crazy is how nasty it gets over there sometimes. And then you
have this one nut who keeps posting these long tearful goodbyes (taking
potshots at others in the process) saying he will never post again. And then
voila he is back a few weeks later.

Not too long ago a highly respected AOS judge got her clock cleaned over there
(or so the offenders thought.) Not a very honorable thing to do to a very
honorable lady.

A recent tirage spilled over to OSF where Andy and Lee were called everything
from incompetent to obese. Pretty apalling if you ask me.

I know Andy and Lee, and they have been great to me. I know sometimes heated
forum posts give pause, but I cannot imagine Andy is doing this without some
serious provocation. He really gets dissed over there.

I still read and post some on the sanderianum project, but I like reading here
a lot. Have not had time to post lately, but I enjoy coming here and reading
when I can. Usenet is seldom the ideal newsgroup for any hobby, but we are a
happy exception. This is a good group.

AOS is okay too, and will be better with the new screening procedures. I have
received many a private email there from people asking questions etc. who
feared to post having seen some nasty stuff. I think once the AOS forum is
moderated it will be much more what was originally intended.

And then we have this place for freedom to reign :)

Tom.

AOS forum
 

A moderator is not a bad thing. A controlling centralized reviewer,
automated or human, is one way to keep the discussion on track. With a
moderator, theoretically, a thread about Phalaenopsis culture would only
have info about Phalaenopsis culture even if it were conflicting info. A
personal attack on a person who grows Phalaenopsis differently might be
returned to me by the moderator with a note asking it to be re-written to
express my own experiences and Phal culture tips without reference to the
other grower. My goal in writing my comments in the first place might need
to be re-evaluated if I wish to see them posted on the moderated forum.

What the new moderator of the AOS forum does with this power will reveal
*their* goal. Do they want only to keep the discussion civil or are they
going to allow only THEIR view of good culture info to be posted. How they
moderate will determine if the forum is worth using.

A moderator is not possible here in rgo because there is no way to reproduce
a controlling centralized reviewer. I don't think there is anyway.

As far as I can see, all of the other forums ABOUT ORCHIDS on the internet ,
except this one, belong to somebody or to some organization. Freedom of
speech (the constitutionally protect type) has a counter balancing principle
in this ownership. It is likely within the rights of the individuals or
organizations who own and operate the forum to decide what gets posted in
their domain. One does not have unlimited freedom of speech in a private
domain, except as it is afforded by the owners of that domain. You can not
publish on my website what I do not want you to say, especially if you
depend on me to put it there.

Carry this counter balancing principle and it's relationship to the first
amendment to a certain level and the supreme court may get involved because
even at this level we do not have unlimited freedom of speech. But we are
not at this level when we talk about orchids in a public or private forum.
To put it bluntly it is just banal for me to bring up the first amendment in
an orchid forum because somebody with the ability to stop me from being an
asshole does so.

And as an inflammatory aside: moderated or not, I may still feel like
nobody likes me when I try to interact and do not get the response I want.
Even if somebody answers my question this feeling is mine and is not the
responsibility of anyone on the forum to alleviate. It is especially
important for me to realize that "no response" could have any one of a
thousand meanings or reasons and to ask myself why I narrow it down to one
that causes me to feel bad. It is very nice of people who make it a habit
to look out for the feelings of other posters to the group, but I think it
is important for me to realize that my feelings sometimes come from inside
me for reasons that others do not have much control over.

And I think the same thing applies when something I read feels like it
pushed my buttons. They are my buttons. I think a good strategy in these
forums is to keep my buttons and what they do to me private and I believe if
it appears that the button being pushed does nothing then maybe the people
pushing it will give up. My feelings and my responses to my feelings are
mine to control.

I would like to draw people's attention to their 'honor' button and to set
them the chore of watching how this button on others, when it is pushed, can
make them behave. These orchid newsgroups and lists have some wonderful
examples of honor buttons gone mad. It is interesting to observe how much
damage a person can appear to do to their own honor in the name of defending
it.

Okay. I guess I have put off repotting long as I can and haven't even said
anything interesting during the procrastination...

AOS forum
 

A moderator is not possible here in rgo because there is no way to reproduce
a controlling centralized reviewer. I don't think there is anyway.


There is a mechanism. There are plenty of moderated newsgroups. But I
don't think it is a good idea, either.

Rob (He's baaaack...)

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

AOS forum
 

What the new moderator of the AOS forum does with this power will reveal
*their* goal. Do they want only to keep the discussion civil or are they
going to allow only THEIR view of good culture info to be posted. How they
moderate will determine if the forum is worth using.

Good points you have made. I and others who try to remain civilized over there
have actually received a fair amount of advance information about what is
coming. Those who scream and yell do not hear these things, and so much the
better.

The moderator is not going to be playing the "whose culture is best" game.
Moderation is purely intended to prevent nasty personal attacks and people
attacking AOS policy directly on the AOS forum.

AOS members will certainly be free to discuss AOS policy, but I for one am sick
and tired of paying for a website where people who are not members make
one-sided malicious attacks on an organization in which they are not a member
and are therefore not entitled to have any voice whatsoever.

To do such things on the organization's own website only adds to how ridiculous
such people are- and how appallingly presumptuous they can be.

The orchid world is a wierd place. I have yet to encounter any orchid society
that does not have its own vocal fringe element or that is not highly political
over at least one minor matter. So perhaps we just need a bit more policing at
times than others. One thing is for sure, few people heavily involved, or who
regularly impose themselves, are out for a love of plants and nothing else.

I do not frequent other sites for the reasons you have given- and for others
too. I am not interested in playing by someone else's agenda, and any orchid
discussion forum with more X-rated lewd talk boards than orchid boards clearly
is not a serious place to have a discussion. Time is valuable and I do not like
to waste mine sorting through junk to get to a few reasoned posts.

Cliques happen on the net boards for the same reason they happen in some orchid
societies- a few individuals with no life or little too be proud of have
decided to make a personal home out of what should be a place to discuss one
thing and one thing alone- orchids. Sure it is great to have some OT discussion
and the like, but some people clearly like to bunch up and make it their own
personal social hall- and to hell with anyone else.

And to say it again, I think this unmoderated board is where the best balance
is. I have yet to see any exclusive "groups" form or for anyone to come along
and spend ALL of their time on OT matters. We all love orchids here and it
shows. It is no mistake more newbies seem to come here than anywhere else.

Ok, I am off to repot too now. I was delaying as well. I love vacation days,
but now I risk having too much time on my hands :)

AOS forum
 

There have always been moderated newsgroups. I was referring to my
understanding that there is no way to convert an unmoderated newsgroup into
a moderated on once it's charter has been approved and the group initiated.
It doesn't make any sense that this is so, but that's the way I thought it
worked, or at least worked in the past. Things do change...

I would hate to see this newsgroup moderated.

To my friend who sent the private email about my comments on free speech in
this thread, (I know you're still reading this): How does the first
amendment guarantee us, as Americans, the right to say whatever we want
about whoever we want in the AOS forum just because we have paid our dues?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances. "

Okay I will be quiet now...

"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...

A moderator is not possible here in rgo because there is no way to
reproduce
a controlling centralized reviewer. I don't think there is anyway.


There is a mechanism. There are plenty of moderated newsgroups. But I
don't think it is a good idea, either.

Rob (He's baaaack...)

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

AOS forum
 

Rob (He's baaaack...)

Was wondering where the rule maker was!

Diana