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Question about parents!
Hello!
I have the Phal. Orchid World `Carmela `and I would like to know how to you do to find out the parent of this plant? I tried a few database but it`s not working or I am completely dumb. Claude |
Question about parents!
Genealogy of Phal Orchid World
Phal Orchid World = Phal Malibu Imp X Phal Deventeriana 1984 Phal Malibu Imp = Phal amboinensis X Phal Luedde-violacea 1977 Phal Deventeriana = Phal amabilis X Phal amboinensis 1927 Phal amboinensis = species Phal Luedde-violacea = Phal lueddemanniana X Phal violacea 1895 Phal amabilis = species Phal lueddemanniana = species Phal violacea = species -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! .. . . . . . . . . . . "Claude" wrote in message ... Hello! I have the Phal. Orchid World `Carmela `and I would like to know how to you do to find out the parent of this plant? I tried a few database but it`s not working or I am completely dumb. Claude |
Question about parents!
Claude,
It just so happens that I had inquired about the parentage of a Phal Orchid World 'Joe' on alt.binaries.pictures.orchids recently, and Susan Erickson had responded. If I understand correctly the perantage of 'Carmela' should be the same as the 'Joe', but maybe just from different growers, right? Here is Sue's response to my query: "Susan Erickson" wrote It is Phal Malibu Imp x Deventeriana It is 50 % amboinensis, 25% amabilis 12.5% lueddemannia and finally 12.5% violacea. SuE "Claude" wrote in message ... Hello! I have the Phal. Orchid World `Carmela `and I would like to know how to you do to find out the parent of this plant? I tried a few database but it`s not working or I am completely dumb. Claude |
Question about parents!
Thank you ray!
How did you do that? Thanks Claude "Ray" wrote in message ... | Genealogy of Phal Orchid World | | | Phal Orchid World = Phal Malibu Imp X Phal Deventeriana 1984 | Phal Malibu Imp = Phal amboinensis X Phal Luedde-violacea 1977 | Phal Deventeriana = Phal amabilis X Phal amboinensis 1927 | Phal amboinensis = species | Phal Luedde-violacea = Phal lueddemanniana X Phal violacea 1895 | Phal amabilis = species | Phal lueddemanniana = species | Phal violacea = species | | | -- | | Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com | Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! | | . . . . . . . . . . . | "Claude" wrote in message | ... | Hello! | | I have the Phal. Orchid World `Carmela `and I would like to know how to | you | do to find out the parent of this plant? | | I tried a few database but it`s not working or I am completely dumb. | | Claude | | | | |
Question about parents!
Genealogy of Phal Orchid World
Phal Orchid World = Phal Malibu Imp X Phal Deventeriana 1984 Phal Malibu Imp = Phal amboinensis X Phal Luedde-violacea 1977 Phal Deventeriana = Phal amabilis X Phal amboinensis 1927 Phal amboinensis = species Phal Luedde-violacea = Phal lueddemanniana X Phal violacea 1895 Phal amabilis = species Phal lueddemanniana = species Phal violacea = species -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! .. . . . . . . . . . . "Claude" wrote in message ... Hello! I have the Phal. Orchid World `Carmela `and I would like to know how to you do to find out the parent of this plant? I tried a few database but it`s not working or I am completely dumb. Claude |
Question about parents!
Claude,
It just so happens that I had inquired about the parentage of a Phal Orchid World 'Joe' on alt.binaries.pictures.orchids recently, and Susan Erickson had responded. If I understand correctly the perantage of 'Carmela' should be the same as the 'Joe', but maybe just from different growers, right? Here is Sue's response to my query: "Susan Erickson" wrote It is Phal Malibu Imp x Deventeriana It is 50 % amboinensis, 25% amabilis 12.5% lueddemannia and finally 12.5% violacea. SuE "Claude" wrote in message ... Hello! I have the Phal. Orchid World `Carmela `and I would like to know how to you do to find out the parent of this plant? I tried a few database but it`s not working or I am completely dumb. Claude |
Question about parents!
Thank you ray!
How did you do that? Thanks Claude "Ray" wrote in message ... | Genealogy of Phal Orchid World | | | Phal Orchid World = Phal Malibu Imp X Phal Deventeriana 1984 | Phal Malibu Imp = Phal amboinensis X Phal Luedde-violacea 1977 | Phal Deventeriana = Phal amabilis X Phal amboinensis 1927 | Phal amboinensis = species | Phal Luedde-violacea = Phal lueddemanniana X Phal violacea 1895 | Phal amabilis = species | Phal lueddemanniana = species | Phal violacea = species | | | -- | | Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com | Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! | | . . . . . . . . . . . | "Claude" wrote in message | ... | Hello! | | I have the Phal. Orchid World `Carmela `and I would like to know how to | you | do to find out the parent of this plant? | | I tried a few database but it`s not working or I am completely dumb. | | Claude | | | | |
Question about parents!
Actually Joanna, 'Carmela' and 'Joe' could be from the very same parents.
Basically, once a cross is bloomed and named, such as Orchid World, each and every plant from the cross of Malibu Imp and Deventeriana - even if it's the reciprocal cross, Deventeriana x Malibu Imp - is Orchid World. From among the different Orchid Worlds out there, some are likely to have outstanding characteristics, so the owner has the right to attach a cultivar name to the plant, in these cases, 'Joe' and 'Carmela.' They could have been from the very same seed capsule or from a totally different set of parents. Anyone can attach a cultivar name to any plant they own that does not already have one. There is no registration involved as there is for grex names like "Orchid World." If I got a particularly nice Orchid World, I could print the tag to say Phalaenopsis Orchid World 'First Rays', but if I had 'Joe' it would always be 'Joe'. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! .. . . . . . . . . . . "J Fortuna" wrote in message ... Claude, It just so happens that I had inquired about the parentage of a Phal Orchid World 'Joe' on alt.binaries.pictures.orchids recently, and Susan Erickson had responded. If I understand correctly the perantage of 'Carmela' should be the same as the 'Joe', but maybe just from different growers, right? Here is Sue's response to my query: "Susan Erickson" wrote It is Phal Malibu Imp x Deventeriana It is 50 % amboinensis, 25% amabilis 12.5% lueddemannia and finally 12.5% violacea. SuE "Claude" wrote in message ... Hello! I have the Phal. Orchid World `Carmela `and I would like to know how to you do to find out the parent of this plant? I tried a few database but it`s not working or I am completely dumb. Claude |
Question about parents!
Copied it straight out of Wildcatt...
-- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! .. . . . . . . . . . . "Claude" wrote in message .. . Thank you ray! How did you do that? Thanks Claude "Ray" wrote in message ... | Genealogy of Phal Orchid World | | | Phal Orchid World = Phal Malibu Imp X Phal Deventeriana 1984 | Phal Malibu Imp = Phal amboinensis X Phal Luedde-violacea 1977 | Phal Deventeriana = Phal amabilis X Phal amboinensis 1927 | Phal amboinensis = species | Phal Luedde-violacea = Phal lueddemanniana X Phal violacea 1895 | Phal amabilis = species | Phal lueddemanniana = species | Phal violacea = species | | | -- | | Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com | Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! | | . . . . . . . . . . . | "Claude" wrote in message | ... | Hello! | | I have the Phal. Orchid World `Carmela `and I would like to know how to | you | do to find out the parent of this plant? | | I tried a few database but it`s not working or I am completely dumb. | | Claude | | | | |
Question about parents!
It seems to me that a lot of people have difficulty understanding the
information provided by the tag and what it tells us about the plant. That 'cultivar name' in particular really throws some people. It is worth it to every collector to learn how to read and write those darn tags. At a show once I found a Phal species with a tag that read: Phal. cornu-cervi 'RedWing'. There was a whole group of them all labeled the same and so I asked the vendor if the plant was a stem prop or a mericlone and she looked at the tag and responded: "They are all seed grown and every one will be different." You would have to understand what the tag told me about the group of plants to know why the vendor's response was a complete contradiction: either she didn't know what she was talking about or the tag was wrong. So I asked, "So these are not all the clone 'RedWing' but seedlings?" and her answer was "Oh no, they're all 'RedWing'" and that was about all I could take. Of course, I bought the plant anyway. The above scenario is one of the essay questions on your test and you won't get your 'official' orchid addict card until you can explain why it did not make sense. Of course you can go on collecting orchids and even selling them apparently without having a clue, but you will have to do it without any official looking card in your wallet. The species percentage chart in wildcat is interesting but it can easily mislead and should only be used as a vague guide to understanding what a particular plant or group of plants will look like. If the tiny purple flower genes of equestris are heavily selected for over 15 generations of hybridizing the chart might hint that the plant is only 5% equestris (since it was used twice 13 generations ago) but the flower might look very much like equestris and indeed have inherited a much greater or lesser percentage of genes from this species. Gene segregation during sexual reproduction is not known for it's mathematical precision. The second tree chart from wildcat that Ray posted later in this thread tells you a bit more. Used together with the percentage chart and LOTS of knowledge of breeding trends over the generations it took to make the cross (to better help you determine the characteristics of the particular 'cultivar' of a registered grex that was in fashion and probably used as the great-great-great grand parent) and you can make an educated guess as to what a plant might look like when it blooms...and still be wrong a fair portion of the time, especially if you try to be very specific. Of course, I know from experience that when a vendor answers the question "What color is this one going to be?" with something as waffle-ly as "Ah, maybe a large solid yellow but white is possible and so is yellow with red spots or bars", that the plant will probably not be sold. "Ray" wrote in message ... Actually Joanna, 'Carmela' and 'Joe' could be from the very same parents. Basically, once a cross is bloomed and named, such as Orchid World, each and every plant from the cross of Malibu Imp and Deventeriana - even if it's the reciprocal cross, Deventeriana x Malibu Imp - is Orchid World. From among the different Orchid Worlds out there, some are likely to have outstanding characteristics, so the owner has the right to attach a cultivar name to the plant, in these cases, 'Joe' and 'Carmela.' They could have been from the very same seed capsule or from a totally different set of parents. Anyone can attach a cultivar name to any plant they own that does not already have one. There is no registration involved as there is for grex names like "Orchid World." If I got a particularly nice Orchid World, I could print the tag to say Phalaenopsis Orchid World 'First Rays', but if I had 'Joe' it would always be 'Joe'. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! . . . . . . . . . . . "J Fortuna" wrote in message ... Claude, It just so happens that I had inquired about the parentage of a Phal Orchid World 'Joe' on alt.binaries.pictures.orchids recently, and Susan Erickson had responded. If I understand correctly the perantage of 'Carmela' should be the same as the 'Joe', but maybe just from different growers, right? Here is Sue's response to my query: "Susan Erickson" wrote It is Phal Malibu Imp x Deventeriana It is 50 % amboinensis, 25% amabilis 12.5% lueddemannia and finally 12.5% violacea. SuE "Claude" wrote in message ... Hello! I have the Phal. Orchid World `Carmela `and I would like to know how to you do to find out the parent of this plant? I tried a few database but it`s not working or I am completely dumb. Claude |
Question about parents!
Claud this was a useful question for me. Thank you for posting it and
special thanks to Ray and Al for their clarification. Although having read this distinction many times, I think I finally got it. Hope you're feeling better Ray. Happy MLK Day. Frank "Claude" wrote in message ... Hello! I have the Phal. Orchid World `Carmela `and I would like to know how to you do to find out the parent of this plant? I tried a few database but it`s not working or I am completely dumb. Claude |
Question about parents!
"J Fortuna" wrote in message . ..
Claude, It just so happens that I had inquired about the parentage of a Phal Orchid World 'Joe' on alt.binaries.pictures.orchids recently, and Susan Erickson had responded. (snip) Here is Sue's response to my query: It is Phal Malibu Imp x Deventeriana It is 50 % amboinensis, 25% amabilis 12.5% lueddemannia and finally 12.5% violacea. Just be aware that those percentages are an average across the entire population of of Phal. Orchid World. Due to the vagaries of meiotic recombination and segregation, individual plants will have different contributions from ancestors a couple of generations back. Nick |
Question about parents!
"J Fortuna" wrote in message . ..
Claude, It just so happens that I had inquired about the parentage of a Phal Orchid World 'Joe' on alt.binaries.pictures.orchids recently, and Susan Erickson had responded. (snip) Here is Sue's response to my query: It is Phal Malibu Imp x Deventeriana It is 50 % amboinensis, 25% amabilis 12.5% lueddemannia and finally 12.5% violacea. Just be aware that those percentages are an average across the entire population of of Phal. Orchid World. Due to the vagaries of meiotic recombination and segregation, individual plants will have different contributions from ancestors a couple of generations back. Nick |
Question about parents!
Al wrote:
every collector to learn how to read and write those darn tags. At a show once I found a Phal species with a tag that read: Phal. cornu-cervi 'RedWing'. There was a whole group of them all labeled the same and so I asked the vendor if the plant was a stem prop or a mericlone and she looked at the tag and responded: "They are all seed grown and every one will be different." You would have to understand what the tag told me about the group of plants to know why the vendor's response was a complete contradiction: either she didn't know what she was talking about or the tag was wrong. So I asked, "So these are not all the clone 'RedWing' but seedlings?" and her answer was "Oh no, they're all 'RedWing'" and that was about all I could take. Of course, I bought the plant anyway. Al, the space aliens are offering to give your brain back if you don't ever do that again. Stupid and/or uneducated vendors should be culled in the way nature intended. I'd personally prefer hungry wolves, but market forces are good too. At some point the professor in me takes over and I give them a (not infrequently polite) lecture on the errors of their ways. I'm sure that makes me a (use whatever rude expletive you choose), but I'm just a wolf in Hawaiian's clothing (Aloha shirt) at most orchid shows, helping the market forces. There are always other places to buy things, and in my opinion, we should try to support the good vendors who know what they are talking about. It drives me nuts that some otherwise knowledgable growers do stupid things, like call a single species a 'specie' (I can't express how much I hate that! - Ok, it is Dana at Hausermanns, give him hell for me). People who have been growing for decades are allowed a few quirks, what bothers me is people who decide that they will become vendors after growing a couple orchids for a year, knowing nothing about orchids and perhaps a few things about capitalism. Come back in a few years when you know what you are talking about, and I'll be happy to do business with you. Anyway, that is how I screen my vendors... They have to know their stock, and have at least a rudimentary understanding of how plants are named. I prefer evidence that they actually grow the plants themselves for a period of time, rather than just wholesaling budded stock. The good ones know the breeding behind their plants, even if they didn't actually make the cross. The best ones know the breeding behind plants that their competitors are offering... You can learn alot about vendors you haven't even met (like on the internet) just by applying the rules of plant naming to their website. I can't trust somebody who can't get genus and species correct and properly formatted (genus capitalized, species not, etc.). Now if I've met them in person I may let such little things slide, but the internet is chock full o' idiots (myself included, I suspect). Rob (not a vendor... or a shark, for that matter.) -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
Question about parents!
Al wrote:
every collector to learn how to read and write those darn tags. At a show once I found a Phal species with a tag that read: Phal. cornu-cervi 'RedWing'. There was a whole group of them all labeled the same and so I asked the vendor if the plant was a stem prop or a mericlone and she looked at the tag and responded: "They are all seed grown and every one will be different." You would have to understand what the tag told me about the group of plants to know why the vendor's response was a complete contradiction: either she didn't know what she was talking about or the tag was wrong. So I asked, "So these are not all the clone 'RedWing' but seedlings?" and her answer was "Oh no, they're all 'RedWing'" and that was about all I could take. Of course, I bought the plant anyway. Al, the space aliens are offering to give your brain back if you don't ever do that again. Stupid and/or uneducated vendors should be culled in the way nature intended. I'd personally prefer hungry wolves, but market forces are good too. At some point the professor in me takes over and I give them a (not infrequently polite) lecture on the errors of their ways. I'm sure that makes me a (use whatever rude expletive you choose), but I'm just a wolf in Hawaiian's clothing (Aloha shirt) at most orchid shows, helping the market forces. There are always other places to buy things, and in my opinion, we should try to support the good vendors who know what they are talking about. It drives me nuts that some otherwise knowledgable growers do stupid things, like call a single species a 'specie' (I can't express how much I hate that! - Ok, it is Dana at Hausermanns, give him hell for me). People who have been growing for decades are allowed a few quirks, what bothers me is people who decide that they will become vendors after growing a couple orchids for a year, knowing nothing about orchids and perhaps a few things about capitalism. Come back in a few years when you know what you are talking about, and I'll be happy to do business with you. Anyway, that is how I screen my vendors... They have to know their stock, and have at least a rudimentary understanding of how plants are named. I prefer evidence that they actually grow the plants themselves for a period of time, rather than just wholesaling budded stock. The good ones know the breeding behind their plants, even if they didn't actually make the cross. The best ones know the breeding behind plants that their competitors are offering... You can learn alot about vendors you haven't even met (like on the internet) just by applying the rules of plant naming to their website. I can't trust somebody who can't get genus and species correct and properly formatted (genus capitalized, species not, etc.). Now if I've met them in person I may let such little things slide, but the internet is chock full o' idiots (myself included, I suspect). Rob (not a vendor... or a shark, for that matter.) -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
Question about parents!
Al wrote:
every collector to learn how to read and write those darn tags. At a show once I found a Phal species with a tag that read: Phal. cornu-cervi 'RedWing'. There was a whole group of them all labeled the same and so I asked the vendor if the plant was a stem prop or a mericlone and she looked at the tag and responded: "They are all seed grown and every one will be different." You would have to understand what the tag told me about the group of plants to know why the vendor's response was a complete contradiction: either she didn't know what she was talking about or the tag was wrong. So I asked, "So these are not all the clone 'RedWing' but seedlings?" and her answer was "Oh no, they're all 'RedWing'" and that was about all I could take. Of course, I bought the plant anyway. Al, the space aliens are offering to give your brain back if you don't ever do that again. Stupid and/or uneducated vendors should be culled in the way nature intended. I'd personally prefer hungry wolves, but market forces are good too. At some point the professor in me takes over and I give them a (not infrequently polite) lecture on the errors of their ways. I'm sure that makes me a (use whatever rude expletive you choose), but I'm just a wolf in Hawaiian's clothing (Aloha shirt) at most orchid shows, helping the market forces. There are always other places to buy things, and in my opinion, we should try to support the good vendors who know what they are talking about. It drives me nuts that some otherwise knowledgable growers do stupid things, like call a single species a 'specie' (I can't express how much I hate that! - Ok, it is Dana at Hausermanns, give him hell for me). People who have been growing for decades are allowed a few quirks, what bothers me is people who decide that they will become vendors after growing a couple orchids for a year, knowing nothing about orchids and perhaps a few things about capitalism. Come back in a few years when you know what you are talking about, and I'll be happy to do business with you. Anyway, that is how I screen my vendors... They have to know their stock, and have at least a rudimentary understanding of how plants are named. I prefer evidence that they actually grow the plants themselves for a period of time, rather than just wholesaling budded stock. The good ones know the breeding behind their plants, even if they didn't actually make the cross. The best ones know the breeding behind plants that their competitors are offering... You can learn alot about vendors you haven't even met (like on the internet) just by applying the rules of plant naming to their website. I can't trust somebody who can't get genus and species correct and properly formatted (genus capitalized, species not, etc.). Now if I've met them in person I may let such little things slide, but the internet is chock full o' idiots (myself included, I suspect). Rob (not a vendor... or a shark, for that matter.) -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
Question about parents!
"Al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
... The species percentage chart in wildcat is interesting but it can easily mislead and should only be used as a vague guide to understanding what a particular plant or group of plants will look like. If the tiny purple flower genes of equestris are heavily selected for over 15 generations of hybridizing the chart might hint that the plant is only 5% equestris (since it was used twice 13 generations ago) but the flower might look very much like equestris and indeed have inherited a much greater or lesser percentage of genes from this species. Gene segregation during sexual reproduction is not known for it's mathematical precision. Of course! Do you look exactly like your siblings? This throws up an interesting question, however. Is there any way Wildcatt can give you an example of all other hybrids that are also, like Phal Orchid World, 50 % amboinensis, 25% amabilis, 12.5% lueddemannia, 12.5% violacea? It would be an adventure to seek out other hybrids and compare their looks. If I had Wildcatt, I would give it a try, but unfortunately I don't. -- Reka I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 19.01.04 |
Question about parents!
"Al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
... The species percentage chart in wildcat is interesting but it can easily mislead and should only be used as a vague guide to understanding what a particular plant or group of plants will look like. If the tiny purple flower genes of equestris are heavily selected for over 15 generations of hybridizing the chart might hint that the plant is only 5% equestris (since it was used twice 13 generations ago) but the flower might look very much like equestris and indeed have inherited a much greater or lesser percentage of genes from this species. Gene segregation during sexual reproduction is not known for it's mathematical precision. Of course! Do you look exactly like your siblings? This throws up an interesting question, however. Is there any way Wildcatt can give you an example of all other hybrids that are also, like Phal Orchid World, 50 % amboinensis, 25% amabilis, 12.5% lueddemannia, 12.5% violacea? It would be an adventure to seek out other hybrids and compare their looks. If I had Wildcatt, I would give it a try, but unfortunately I don't. -- Reka I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 19.01.04 |
Question about parents!
It did turn out to be a cornu-cervi when it bloomed (or a specie that looks
a lot like it; pantherina, deceptrix, whatever.) but it had no remarkable amount of red in it when compared to the other non-named clones I have accumulated. I do have a cornu-cervi f. thalebanii which was sold to me as Phal. thelebanii but it hasn't yet bloomed so I don't yet know what I spent all that money on. I have puzzled over this for years: One, why I bought it after she demonstrated in person the same quality that *does* drive me away from website catalogs. There is often more than one way to write a plant name, espceially a species but there are also obvious errors that point to vendor ignornace of their product that can not be attributed to spelling mistakes or taxonomic sources. Two: I keep thinking she was trying to communicate Phal. cornu-cervi ('Redwing' x self) as I questioned her but that tag, written as it was, definitely could not be construed to mean this. She should have known better if that's what she was trying to say. Those space aliens can not be trusted. I have heard those promises before and done (and probably will do) all kinds of monkey-like things whenever such a big banana is dangled in front of me. Right now they have me working on "Hamlet" without benifit of a text copy to guide me. They heard some theory... Anyway, the only thing worse than alien laughter in your head is an improperly written orchid tag. And another thing that makes me crazy: people in newsgroups who don't stick to the thread topic. Al "Non cogitamus, ergo nihil sumus" and I wish I knew the latin for "Keep your buttons hidden or some fool will push them just for fun." ...and enough from me today... "Rob Halgren" wrote in message ... Al, the space aliens are offering to give your brain back if you don't ever do that again. Stupid and/or uneducated vendors should be culled in the way nature intended. I'd personally prefer hungry wolves, but market forces are good too. At some point the professor in me takes over and I give them a (not infrequently polite) lecture on the errors of their ways. I'm sure that makes me a (use whatever rude expletive you choose), but I'm just a wolf in Hawaiian's clothing (Aloha shirt) at most orchid shows, helping the market forces. There are always other places to buy things, and in my opinion, we should try to support the good vendors who know what they are talking about. It drives me nuts that some otherwise knowledgable growers do stupid things, like call a single species a 'specie' (I can't express how much I hate that! - Ok, it is Dana at Hausermanns, give him hell for me). People who have been growing for decades are allowed a few quirks, what bothers me is people who decide that they will become vendors after growing a couple orchids for a year, knowing nothing about orchids and perhaps a few things about capitalism. Come back in a few years when you know what you are talking about, and I'll be happy to do business with you. Anyway, that is how I screen my vendors... They have to know their stock, and have at least a rudimentary understanding of how plants are named. I prefer evidence that they actually grow the plants themselves for a period of time, rather than just wholesaling budded stock. The good ones know the breeding behind their plants, even if they didn't actually make the cross. The best ones know the breeding behind plants that their competitors are offering... You can learn alot about vendors you haven't even met (like on the internet) just by applying the rules of plant naming to their website. I can't trust somebody who can't get genus and species correct and properly formatted (genus capitalized, species not, etc.). Now if I've met them in person I may let such little things slide, but the internet is chock full o' idiots (myself included, I suspect). Rob (not a vendor... or a shark, for that matter.) -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
Question about parents!
It did turn out to be a cornu-cervi when it bloomed (or a specie that looks
a lot like it; pantherina, deceptrix, whatever.) but it had no remarkable amount of red in it when compared to the other non-named clones I have accumulated. I do have a cornu-cervi f. thalebanii which was sold to me as Phal. thelebanii but it hasn't yet bloomed so I don't yet know what I spent all that money on. I have puzzled over this for years: One, why I bought it after she demonstrated in person the same quality that *does* drive me away from website catalogs. There is often more than one way to write a plant name, espceially a species but there are also obvious errors that point to vendor ignornace of their product that can not be attributed to spelling mistakes or taxonomic sources. Two: I keep thinking she was trying to communicate Phal. cornu-cervi ('Redwing' x self) as I questioned her but that tag, written as it was, definitely could not be construed to mean this. She should have known better if that's what she was trying to say. Those space aliens can not be trusted. I have heard those promises before and done (and probably will do) all kinds of monkey-like things whenever such a big banana is dangled in front of me. Right now they have me working on "Hamlet" without benifit of a text copy to guide me. They heard some theory... Anyway, the only thing worse than alien laughter in your head is an improperly written orchid tag. And another thing that makes me crazy: people in newsgroups who don't stick to the thread topic. Al "Non cogitamus, ergo nihil sumus" and I wish I knew the latin for "Keep your buttons hidden or some fool will push them just for fun." ...and enough from me today... "Rob Halgren" wrote in message ... Al, the space aliens are offering to give your brain back if you don't ever do that again. Stupid and/or uneducated vendors should be culled in the way nature intended. I'd personally prefer hungry wolves, but market forces are good too. At some point the professor in me takes over and I give them a (not infrequently polite) lecture on the errors of their ways. I'm sure that makes me a (use whatever rude expletive you choose), but I'm just a wolf in Hawaiian's clothing (Aloha shirt) at most orchid shows, helping the market forces. There are always other places to buy things, and in my opinion, we should try to support the good vendors who know what they are talking about. It drives me nuts that some otherwise knowledgable growers do stupid things, like call a single species a 'specie' (I can't express how much I hate that! - Ok, it is Dana at Hausermanns, give him hell for me). People who have been growing for decades are allowed a few quirks, what bothers me is people who decide that they will become vendors after growing a couple orchids for a year, knowing nothing about orchids and perhaps a few things about capitalism. Come back in a few years when you know what you are talking about, and I'll be happy to do business with you. Anyway, that is how I screen my vendors... They have to know their stock, and have at least a rudimentary understanding of how plants are named. I prefer evidence that they actually grow the plants themselves for a period of time, rather than just wholesaling budded stock. The good ones know the breeding behind their plants, even if they didn't actually make the cross. The best ones know the breeding behind plants that their competitors are offering... You can learn alot about vendors you haven't even met (like on the internet) just by applying the rules of plant naming to their website. I can't trust somebody who can't get genus and species correct and properly formatted (genus capitalized, species not, etc.). Now if I've met them in person I may let such little things slide, but the internet is chock full o' idiots (myself included, I suspect). Rob (not a vendor... or a shark, for that matter.) -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
Question about parents!
"Al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
... The species percentage chart in wildcat is interesting but it can easily mislead and should only be used as a vague guide to understanding what a particular plant or group of plants will look like. If the tiny purple flower genes of equestris are heavily selected for over 15 generations of hybridizing the chart might hint that the plant is only 5% equestris (since it was used twice 13 generations ago) but the flower might look very much like equestris and indeed have inherited a much greater or lesser percentage of genes from this species. Gene segregation during sexual reproduction is not known for it's mathematical precision. Of course! Do you look exactly like your siblings? This throws up an interesting question, however. Is there any way Wildcatt can give you an example of all other hybrids that are also, like Phal Orchid World, 50 % amboinensis, 25% amabilis, 12.5% lueddemannia, 12.5% violacea? It would be an adventure to seek out other hybrids and compare their looks. If I had Wildcatt, I would give it a try, but unfortunately I don't. -- Reka I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 19.01.04 |
Question about parents!
"Al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
... The species percentage chart in wildcat is interesting but it can easily mislead and should only be used as a vague guide to understanding what a particular plant or group of plants will look like. If the tiny purple flower genes of equestris are heavily selected for over 15 generations of hybridizing the chart might hint that the plant is only 5% equestris (since it was used twice 13 generations ago) but the flower might look very much like equestris and indeed have inherited a much greater or lesser percentage of genes from this species. Gene segregation during sexual reproduction is not known for it's mathematical precision. Of course! Do you look exactly like your siblings? This throws up an interesting question, however. Is there any way Wildcatt can give you an example of all other hybrids that are also, like Phal Orchid World, 50 % amboinensis, 25% amabilis, 12.5% lueddemannia, 12.5% violacea? It would be an adventure to seek out other hybrids and compare their looks. If I had Wildcatt, I would give it a try, but unfortunately I don't. -- Reka I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 19.01.04 |
Question about parents!
It did turn out to be a cornu-cervi when it bloomed (or a specie that looks
a lot like it; pantherina, deceptrix, whatever.) but it had no remarkable amount of red in it when compared to the other non-named clones I have accumulated. I do have a cornu-cervi f. thalebanii which was sold to me as Phal. thelebanii but it hasn't yet bloomed so I don't yet know what I spent all that money on. I have puzzled over this for years: One, why I bought it after she demonstrated in person the same quality that *does* drive me away from website catalogs. There is often more than one way to write a plant name, espceially a species but there are also obvious errors that point to vendor ignornace of their product that can not be attributed to spelling mistakes or taxonomic sources. Two: I keep thinking she was trying to communicate Phal. cornu-cervi ('Redwing' x self) as I questioned her but that tag, written as it was, definitely could not be construed to mean this. She should have known better if that's what she was trying to say. Those space aliens can not be trusted. I have heard those promises before and done (and probably will do) all kinds of monkey-like things whenever such a big banana is dangled in front of me. Right now they have me working on "Hamlet" without benifit of a text copy to guide me. They heard some theory... Anyway, the only thing worse than alien laughter in your head is an improperly written orchid tag. And another thing that makes me crazy: people in newsgroups who don't stick to the thread topic. Al "Non cogitamus, ergo nihil sumus" and I wish I knew the latin for "Keep your buttons hidden or some fool will push them just for fun." ...and enough from me today... "Rob Halgren" wrote in message ... Al, the space aliens are offering to give your brain back if you don't ever do that again. Stupid and/or uneducated vendors should be culled in the way nature intended. I'd personally prefer hungry wolves, but market forces are good too. At some point the professor in me takes over and I give them a (not infrequently polite) lecture on the errors of their ways. I'm sure that makes me a (use whatever rude expletive you choose), but I'm just a wolf in Hawaiian's clothing (Aloha shirt) at most orchid shows, helping the market forces. There are always other places to buy things, and in my opinion, we should try to support the good vendors who know what they are talking about. It drives me nuts that some otherwise knowledgable growers do stupid things, like call a single species a 'specie' (I can't express how much I hate that! - Ok, it is Dana at Hausermanns, give him hell for me). People who have been growing for decades are allowed a few quirks, what bothers me is people who decide that they will become vendors after growing a couple orchids for a year, knowing nothing about orchids and perhaps a few things about capitalism. Come back in a few years when you know what you are talking about, and I'll be happy to do business with you. Anyway, that is how I screen my vendors... They have to know their stock, and have at least a rudimentary understanding of how plants are named. I prefer evidence that they actually grow the plants themselves for a period of time, rather than just wholesaling budded stock. The good ones know the breeding behind their plants, even if they didn't actually make the cross. The best ones know the breeding behind plants that their competitors are offering... You can learn alot about vendors you haven't even met (like on the internet) just by applying the rules of plant naming to their website. I can't trust somebody who can't get genus and species correct and properly formatted (genus capitalized, species not, etc.). Now if I've met them in person I may let such little things slide, but the internet is chock full o' idiots (myself included, I suspect). Rob (not a vendor... or a shark, for that matter.) -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
Question about parents!
It did turn out to be a cornu-cervi when it bloomed (or a specie that looks
a lot like it; pantherina, deceptrix, whatever.) but it had no remarkable amount of red in it when compared to the other non-named clones I have accumulated. I do have a cornu-cervi f. thalebanii which was sold to me as Phal. thelebanii but it hasn't yet bloomed so I don't yet know what I spent all that money on. I have puzzled over this for years: One, why I bought it after she demonstrated in person the same quality that *does* drive me away from website catalogs. There is often more than one way to write a plant name, espceially a species but there are also obvious errors that point to vendor ignornace of their product that can not be attributed to spelling mistakes or taxonomic sources. Two: I keep thinking she was trying to communicate Phal. cornu-cervi ('Redwing' x self) as I questioned her but that tag, written as it was, definitely could not be construed to mean this. She should have known better if that's what she was trying to say. Those space aliens can not be trusted. I have heard those promises before and done (and probably will do) all kinds of monkey-like things whenever such a big banana is dangled in front of me. Right now they have me working on "Hamlet" without benifit of a text copy to guide me. They heard some theory... Anyway, the only thing worse than alien laughter in your head is an improperly written orchid tag. And another thing that makes me crazy: people in newsgroups who don't stick to the thread topic. Al "Non cogitamus, ergo nihil sumus" and I wish I knew the latin for "Keep your buttons hidden or some fool will push them just for fun." ...and enough from me today... "Rob Halgren" wrote in message ... Al, the space aliens are offering to give your brain back if you don't ever do that again. Stupid and/or uneducated vendors should be culled in the way nature intended. I'd personally prefer hungry wolves, but market forces are good too. At some point the professor in me takes over and I give them a (not infrequently polite) lecture on the errors of their ways. I'm sure that makes me a (use whatever rude expletive you choose), but I'm just a wolf in Hawaiian's clothing (Aloha shirt) at most orchid shows, helping the market forces. There are always other places to buy things, and in my opinion, we should try to support the good vendors who know what they are talking about. It drives me nuts that some otherwise knowledgable growers do stupid things, like call a single species a 'specie' (I can't express how much I hate that! - Ok, it is Dana at Hausermanns, give him hell for me). People who have been growing for decades are allowed a few quirks, what bothers me is people who decide that they will become vendors after growing a couple orchids for a year, knowing nothing about orchids and perhaps a few things about capitalism. Come back in a few years when you know what you are talking about, and I'll be happy to do business with you. Anyway, that is how I screen my vendors... They have to know their stock, and have at least a rudimentary understanding of how plants are named. I prefer evidence that they actually grow the plants themselves for a period of time, rather than just wholesaling budded stock. The good ones know the breeding behind their plants, even if they didn't actually make the cross. The best ones know the breeding behind plants that their competitors are offering... You can learn alot about vendors you haven't even met (like on the internet) just by applying the rules of plant naming to their website. I can't trust somebody who can't get genus and species correct and properly formatted (genus capitalized, species not, etc.). Now if I've met them in person I may let such little things slide, but the internet is chock full o' idiots (myself included, I suspect). Rob (not a vendor... or a shark, for that matter.) -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
Question about parents!
Al wrote:
Those space aliens can not be trusted. I have heard those promises before and done (and probably will do) all kinds of monkey-like things whenever such a big banana is dangled in front of me. Right now they have me working on "Hamlet" without benifit of a text copy to guide me. They heard some theory... Anyway, the only thing worse than alien laughter in your head is an improperly written orchid tag. They won't get far with only one monkey... They'll probably come after me next. I'd have to put alien laughter right up there with improperly written tags, although worse than an improperly written tag is one that was correctly written which you can't read anymore. That will drive you bonkers. And another thing that makes me crazy: people in newsgroups who don't stick to the thread topic. Al "Non cogitamus, ergo nihil sumus" and I wish I knew the latin for "Keep your buttons hidden or some fool will push them just for fun." ...and enough from me today... If we try hard enough, we could push all your buttons at once. Like kids in an elevator. And when did we ever have a thread that stuck to topic? I wear my bottons on my sleeve, and dare people to poke 'em. *grin* Rob -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
Question about parents!
Al wrote:
Those space aliens can not be trusted. I have heard those promises before and done (and probably will do) all kinds of monkey-like things whenever such a big banana is dangled in front of me. Right now they have me working on "Hamlet" without benifit of a text copy to guide me. They heard some theory... Anyway, the only thing worse than alien laughter in your head is an improperly written orchid tag. They won't get far with only one monkey... They'll probably come after me next. I'd have to put alien laughter right up there with improperly written tags, although worse than an improperly written tag is one that was correctly written which you can't read anymore. That will drive you bonkers. And another thing that makes me crazy: people in newsgroups who don't stick to the thread topic. Al "Non cogitamus, ergo nihil sumus" and I wish I knew the latin for "Keep your buttons hidden or some fool will push them just for fun." ...and enough from me today... If we try hard enough, we could push all your buttons at once. Like kids in an elevator. And when did we ever have a thread that stuck to topic? I wear my bottons on my sleeve, and dare people to poke 'em. *grin* Rob -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
Question about parents!
Al wrote:
Those space aliens can not be trusted. I have heard those promises before and done (and probably will do) all kinds of monkey-like things whenever such a big banana is dangled in front of me. Right now they have me working on "Hamlet" without benifit of a text copy to guide me. They heard some theory... Anyway, the only thing worse than alien laughter in your head is an improperly written orchid tag. They won't get far with only one monkey... They'll probably come after me next. I'd have to put alien laughter right up there with improperly written tags, although worse than an improperly written tag is one that was correctly written which you can't read anymore. That will drive you bonkers. And another thing that makes me crazy: people in newsgroups who don't stick to the thread topic. Al "Non cogitamus, ergo nihil sumus" and I wish I knew the latin for "Keep your buttons hidden or some fool will push them just for fun." ...and enough from me today... If we try hard enough, we could push all your buttons at once. Like kids in an elevator. And when did we ever have a thread that stuck to topic? I wear my bottons on my sleeve, and dare people to poke 'em. *grin* Rob -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
Question about parents!
The worst vendor I ever encountered was a staff person at a plant nursery in
Milwaukee. The nursery carried other plants as well. The staff person did not know the difference between aerial roots and inflorescences, but she was convinced that she did know, and even after I corrected her and told her that I knew the difference (there was absolutely no doubt with those: they were already quite long, and very root-like), she kept insisting that the Phal definitely had several blooming spikes and therefore was a huge bargain. I wound up buying the Phal anyway, since I needed a present for my mother-in-law, and it was a very nice Phal, despite having only one spike at that time, and being quite overpriced. Joanna "Rob Halgren" wrote in message ... Anyway, that is how I screen my vendors... They have to know their stock, and have at least a rudimentary understanding of how plants are named. I prefer evidence that they actually grow the plants themselves for a period of time, rather than just wholesaling budded stock. The good ones know the breeding behind their plants, even if they didn't actually make the cross. The best ones know the breeding behind plants that their competitors are offering... You can learn alot about vendors you haven't even met (like on the internet) just by applying the rules of plant naming to their website. I can't trust somebody who can't get genus and species correct and properly formatted (genus capitalized, species not, etc.). Now if I've met them in person I may let such little things slide, but the internet is chock full o' idiots (myself included, I suspect). Rob (not a vendor... or a shark, for that matter.) -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
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