Organic does not mean pesticide free...
"Chuck" wrote in message
ink.net... "pearl" wrote in message ... On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 02:47:37 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: Then for a true picture the total yield in some unit, dollar or pounds sterling per acre in total yield of wheat, feed, fiber meat and what ever should be totaled up and divided by the number of years in the study giving true value of the output of an organic farming operation per unit area compared to a conventional or modern farm. Showing how much far they are really behind modern methods. With total production nearer 25% or less that of a modern farm ran in an intensive operation. Compare the yields here; http://tinyurl.com/uvdi . Bear in mind; '2. Lower yields are experienced during the transition to organic production Most researchers agree that yields tend to drop for three to five years during the conversion from industrial to organic approaches (Dabbert and Madden, 1986; US Congress, 1983; Hanson et al, 1990; Lampkin, 1989; Smolik and Dobbs, 1991). This is because it takes time for the soil to develop the positive attributes associated with organic agriculture. It also takes time for operators to learn organic crop management techniques. Some of the lower organic crop yield estimates cited in Exhibit III-1 may have been from industrial farms in transition to organic production. Given that organic production relies on soil fertility and a healthy, diverse soil ecosystem, the yield reductions experienced in the initial phases of transition from industrial practices tend to be eliminated over time (Sparling et al, 1992; pers. comm. Cornwoman; pers. comm. Tourte). We note that the economic transition time can be twice as long as the biological transition time; it can take an extra four years for the farmer to fully recoup the financial losses that occurred during the transition (Hanson et al, 1990). This transition period can be shortened significantly with creativity (e.g. substituting crops, enhancing farm gate sales efforts). 3. Organic crop yields are less variable than industrial yields Organic crop yields are reportedly less variable than industrial methods (Hanson et al, 1990). As well, growing season precipitation is an important factor influencing crop yields and organic crop production systems appear to perform better than industrial farming systems under drought conditions (Smolik and Dobbs, 1991). Thus, sustainable crop production provides a benefit to risk-averse farmers. Based on the above, it appears that with strong farm management, small scale, organic crop production can produce competitive and even superior yields to industrially grown crops. Furthermore, just as research has resulted in an improvement in yields for industrial crops (e.g. winter wheat), there is likely to be similar improvement in yields for organic crops as more research is conducted and organic farming methods become more commonplace (Lampkin, 1989). ..' http://www.manyfoldfarm.com/comfoosy...er3.htm#eiii-1 404 ( http://tinyurl.com/uvdi ) Apparently you've never done any actual research either. Chuck I've not personally compared organic and industrial yield, no, ... the people that prepared the above report 'Adding Values to Our Food System: An Economic Analysis of Sustainable Community Food Systems', for the United States Department of Agriculture Sustainable Agriculture Research & Education Program, Utah State University, did that "actual research". |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
"len gardener" wrote in message ... g'day pete, hope things are fairing well in your neck of the woods, like most a bit of rain wouldn't go astray to say the least. we look at managing our pests more than trying to erradicate so we are probably less tempted to go for the big guns, my main driving force is bad health that i feel was at least contributed to by residues in what is perported to be fresh fruits and vege's. so in our garden we accept some quiet visible predation by bugs, as yet our system is young so the good guys are still to come into balance, but they are appearing, and we attract very many birds around our food growing areas they also help. but for us it will be the chilly spray and coffee spray. we too are managing our resource using basically a common sense approach and all is working quiet well in our books. and for countries that need to import fresh food due to lack of agricultural land or whatever well! that is a whole other issue, but maybe community farms may go part the way to bridging the gap a lot of staple foods can be grown on a 5 acre patch. and people can grow a lot of the other stuff they want in containers. just some thoughts. len snipped -- happy gardening 'it works for me it could work for you,' "in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/ Hiya Len Good to se you're still around too mate. My ISP's news server has been having some hiccups and some posts of mine didn't get posted so I now have a couple of different newservers so if my posts look like they came from somewhere else they probably did. We are getting some rain here ..dribs and drabs mostly but big thunderstorm last night ... so far its looking pretty good for the farmers seeding and we are hoping to build on last years effort of rejuvenating one of the small paddocks (if I get me Fergie tractor back together again quickly). At this time of year the biggest pests are the snails, we don't get many slugs (unless they are just hiding from me) and its also the time of year when the Sleepy lizards go to sleep for the winter so they are no help in controlling the snails, definitely need some ducks. One of the troubles I have is protecting the young plants from lizards so I planted some stuff (mainly herbs) in old cut down water tanks which of course stops lizards from getting to the plants but also stops em from getting to the pests too. As far as the flying sap sucking type of bugs go I think the Little Willie wagtail is the king of bug eating birds and although the African boxthorn plant is a declared pest here they seem to prefer this shrub for nesting in on my place, so I have one that will stay just as a home for these little guys. A couple of weeks ago the whole place was swarming with flying ants and other "midgy" type insects then the dragonflies moved in and I was fascinated just standing in the middle of the paddock watching millions of em eat their way through the swarms ..it really was like being in another world ... if you've ever stood in one of those butterfly houses and been surrounded by that eerie silence as butterflies flutter inches from your nose you'll know what I mean, they even seem to look directly in your eyes (no I wasn't drunk :-)). I don't blame anyone for using synthetic means to control pests, each to his/her own...but I just couldn't do it. I love doing things the way I do em ...right or wrong ....and nature never ceases to amaze me, I don't want to do anything to stop being amazed. Pete |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
g'day pete,
yeh we still here, just about to give up on the alt.pc news group it looked almost dead of late, not like those good ole days a few years back. the willy is a great bug eater, legend is that he is supposed to be bad luck in your garden, ah but who cares them and their close cousins the fly catcher (we have), and babbler, yellow rumped thornbills, piplets etc.,. etc.,. the bugs have a hard time. we have that snail the little cigar shaped one gets to around oh i dunno 1/2" peky little ting if we don't keep on top of them they even eat the yellow part of the skin on the lemonade fruit. no never been in a butterfly house but i can well imagine what you mean, we're even encouraging the owls to come back seems if a care to look outside after dark there is usualy one flying around or sitting on one of our poles, so things are looking realy rosy. we've planted a lot of trees over the last 12 months 300+ so this place should look a treat in a couple of years when they all reach a visible height, we have managed to control the blady grass and now ahve vwery little of it, a wide variety of pasture grasses exotics and natives ranging from calf height to head height some almost to 2 meters. be good to win lotto ad get some calves on here for fattening they would love it. as me signature line says hey pete? "you gotta do what you gotta do" hey, if you need to use a quick fix then that's it just that it is done with all eyes open. our food orchids are doing well heaps of manda's and lemonade fruits this year, the top tropical orchard has lots of holes to fill losses due to the place being so dry and we being too impatient. but the trees that are up there are having a minimising efect on the frosts and we can actualy sit under the shade of a young tree that we planted something that wasn't there before. currently we are gathering different varieties of bunching and those type onions and leeks so we can keep ourselves supplied in some sort for the table at all times. i'm also cheif garlic grower for ted and us. ted's doing well he is starting to see some fruits for his efforts vege garden wise this is the common scenerio when we take on degraded land hey. anyhow you take care i'm ready for a chat anytime all the time. len snipped -- happy gardening 'it works for me it could work for you,' "in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/ |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
In article , "Pete" writes:
Hi David and thanks for the reply I agree that you have to make choices depending on what resources are available, although I was referring more to land management choices rather than food purchases. We try to produce as much as we can using what resources we have available and though we tend to lose lots of "produce" to pests I've (so far) never thrown in the towel and blasted everything with the really heavy stuff, (I've used cabbage dust and pyrethrum sprays) ... so my question was really aimed at folks who like us, get lots of bugs and beasties sharing their home grown produce and try to control them with an organic solution ... better land management and companion plantings, use of animals for pest and weed control, animal manures, mulches and worms for nutrient and soil improvement etc ...not specifically sprays or powder but using the "bigger" picture to hopefully balance things out and avoid the use of toxins. Good to see someone is still reading the NG David .... *looks North and sees people in Scotland sunbathing !!!* Pete When growing our own, there is nothing like a successful organic system. What I have is nothing like a successful organic system. I either have to improve rapidly, or continue to accept predation. I don't see any genuine alternative to organics when it comes down to soil improvement. Good old muck and sweat! I might be able to talk my neighbours into letting me use some of their 'wasteland' for a chicken coup, so I can get a new input/output interface. Talk about people in Scotland sunbathing, for a sun worshiper like me there is a conflict with permaculture - my best secluded sunbathing patch is also my best growing patch. Suppose I should be happy to save water by not wearing clothes that I have to then wash ;) David Lloyd So open-minded - my brains dribbled out. |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
"len gardener" wrote in message ... g'day pete, yeh we still here, just about to give up on the alt.pc news group it looked almost dead of late, not like those good ole days a few years back. the willy is a great bug eater, legend is that he is supposed to be bad luck in your garden, ah but who cares them and their close cousins the fly catcher (we have), and babbler, yellow rumped thornbills, piplets etc.,. etc.,. the bugs have a hard time. we have that snail the little cigar shaped one gets to around oh i dunno 1/2" peky little ting if we don't keep on top of them they even eat the yellow part of the skin on the lemonade fruit. no never been in a butterfly house but i can well imagine what you mean, we're even encouraging the owls to come back seems if a care to look outside after dark there is usualy one flying around or sitting on one of our poles, so things are looking realy rosy. we've planted a lot of trees over the last 12 months 300+ so this place should look a treat in a couple of years when they all reach a visible height, we have managed to control the blady grass and now ahve vwery little of it, a wide variety of pasture grasses exotics and natives ranging from calf height to head height some almost to 2 meters. be good to win lotto ad get some calves on here for fattening they would love it. as me signature line says hey pete? "you gotta do what you gotta do" hey, if you need to use a quick fix then that's it just that it is done with all eyes open. our food orchids are doing well heaps of manda's and lemonade fruits this year, the top tropical orchard has lots of holes to fill losses due to the place being so dry and we being too impatient. but the trees that are up there are having a minimising efect on the frosts and we can actualy sit under the shade of a young tree that we planted something that wasn't there before. currently we are gathering different varieties of bunching and those type onions and leeks so we can keep ourselves supplied in some sort for the table at all times. i'm also cheif garlic grower for ted and us. ted's doing well he is starting to see some fruits for his efforts vege garden wise this is the common scenerio when we take on degraded land hey. anyhow you take care i'm ready for a chat anytime all the time. len snipped -- happy gardening 'it works for me it could work for you,' "in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/ Hiya Len Don't give up on the old NG .... we'll stir some of them lurkers outa their holes Looks like you've been real busy with the tree planting .. I looked at the list on your site. that's impressive mate ... did ya have to keep wiping the sweat from Bev's brow while she planted em ? ... the things we do for them wimmin eh? ... they just don't know how lucky they are, I even pass Maureen's welding rods for her sometimes .... wears me out I tell ya. I've been trying to get old Fergie ready for turning the soil a little, last year we had a good combination of natural growth and a little barley we threw around that we are eager to try to see if we can improve on the ground cover and we are planting some old man salt bush around some low lying, salty areas to try to lower the water table around those problem areas. Fergie has had a total strip down, derust and paint job ...which started off as a water pump replacement... which led to replacing some oil seals and which in turn led to lots of parts being replaced cos I snapped and bent things as I removed em because they were sooo rusty ... but she fired up on the 3rd turn after being sat for 3 months in bits ..not bad for a 51 year old ex boat tractor.. still some wiring and a bit more painting to do then she'll be too sexy for her own good. I remember Mollison saying that if you can turn the top few centimetres and improve that then go a little deeper each year you can achieve a good deep structure which will not only allow moisture in but retain it longer, the area I am working has been fairly well sealed by previous rains to a point where before last year it wouldn't allow any moisture in and after lightly turning the top and throwing a bit of seed around we were amazed at the amount of natural seed that must have been lying dormant waiting for a more suitable structure and some rain of course. We had a good storm the other night and got 40 points (10 mm) out of it... don't larf that's a torrent for us ... so you can see we need to catch and try to hold all the rain we get... cos we don't get that much. I hand dug a biggish pond and thought I'd have a few yabbies ... the Cormorants had other ideas .... I tried fish ... they liked them even more ......... so I have this big hole in the ground ... got any ideas ? (apart from burying Cormorants.. I thought of that one) I also have a big mound of earth at the side of the big hole ... looks like it would just fit in there nicely. Good to hear Ted is getting his place together as well .... He's on a good wicket getting you to grow his garlic for him .... What is it about Onions and garlic ? I love growing them ... Onions take a season and a half out of the garden patch but I reckon the garden isn't complete without rows of onions in it .... I just wish Onions liked me as much as I like them :-( take care mate Pete |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
"Sirius631" wrote in message ... When growing our own, there is nothing like a successful organic system. What I have is nothing like a successful organic system. I either have to improve rapidly, or continue to accept predation. I don't see any genuine alternative to organics when it comes down to soil improvement. Good old muck and sweat! I might be able to talk my neighbours into letting me use some of their 'wasteland' for a chicken coup, so I can get a new input/output interface. Don't talk to me about muck and sweat ....... ok ya can this seems the right place, we have to improve every bit of soil we plant in ... our soil (or whatever it is) is very salty and has little organic matter ..it is soupy when wet and rock hard when dry, it gets to a stage where it is almost impossible to re-wet it ... a lot of Aussie soils have this unwettable characteristic ... its a weird one. Talk about people in Scotland sunbathing, for a sun worshiper like me there is a conflict with permaculture - my best secluded sunbathing patch is also my best growing patch. Suppose I should be happy to save water by not wearing clothes that I have to then wash ;) You need to grow broad leaf plants so ya can quickly dash under em if anyone comes ... Pumpkin leaves are good for that but ya get a bit muddy rolling under em .....erm or so I'm told..... should we start calling you Adam ? Dont eat the apple !!! Pete |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
g'day pete,
be good if you can stuir them up we used to have good chat before and lots of it. yeh trouble is she folds too quickly under the noon day sun gotta keep using the cattle prod lol. she has been a great supporter and partner through all this. sounds like you've got an old classic restored there in fergie, you must be a pillar of patience. sounds like you are doing great guns with you soil ted has a salt probem in his soil not like yours i would think, in his case there is too high a levle of salt content, so everything he did initialy was a dissapointment to him but he is starting to win now. mmm you realy do have a low rainfall area but like you say you do things to trap and hold as much of the water for as long as possible, even though we are in a much higher fall area than you the rain that used to fall was doing very little for anything it just ran straight off the top, but now that we have gotten it into the sub-surface things tend to grow more than die and we can sustain a longer dry period than other before our grasses show it. maybe you could turn the hole into a health spa? make some un supportable sorry supportable claim and attract lots of nubile um ladies you get me drift, i always say to bev if we don't make it with perma-c here i might turn itn into a nudist colony for ladies um and i could vet all applicants so to speak huh lol, ok ladies only jokin only jokin. right now we are back on the market still fine tuning realtionship problems but we will be going this time, but i was planning on more garden beds so i could devote 1 bed to each type of onion thingy and maybe2 or 3 beds for garlic, as it is nigh on impossible to get local grown garlic anymore up here that chinese bleached white imported stuff ahs flooded the market. thsi will dry up reserves of plantable corms for people like us and make buying this stuff fresh for use is going to get expensive could be a bit of a money spinner in years to come. the best to you and yours len snipped -- happy gardening 'it works for me it could work for you,' "in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/ |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
In article , "Pete" writes:
should we start calling you Adam ? rofl. It's been hot and humid here over the last few days. I find that being raw, so to speak, stops me feeling grimey, thus helps cut down on the water I'd use having extra showers. David Lloyd So open-minded - my brains dribbled out. |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
In article , "Pete" writes:
Don't talk to me about muck and sweat ....... ok ya can this seems the right place, we have to improve every bit of soil we plant in ... our soil (or whatever it is) is very salty and has little organic matter ..it is soupy when wet and rock hard when dry, it gets to a stage where it is almost impossible to re-wet it ... a lot of Aussie soils have this unwettable characteristic ... its a weird one. Sounds like raised beds would be the best bet. That is is what I'm using. I can't keep all the soil moist all the time with my rain water storage and supply capacity. I do need to expand this, but finances might soon dictate that I sould have held on to the cash. I can take solice in the fact that sparrows, which have been suffering a big dip in numbers, will invade in hoards to take a dust bath when the soil gets to that hydrophobic state. David Lloyd So open-minded - my brains dribbled out. |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
"len gardener" wrote in message ... Snippings i always say to bev if we don't make it with perma-c here i might turn itn into a nudist colony Len meet David ... David meet Len .... Ok I snipped the "for ladies bit" :-) cos David is looking for somewhere to sunworship. right now we are back on the market still fine tuning realtionship problems but we will be going this time, So ... as soon as I come back on the group you decide to move house so I can't find ya eh? Are you looking for somewhere with land again Len or are you thinking of becoming a city kid again? but i was planning on more garden beds so i could devote 1 bed to each type of onion thingy and maybe2 or 3 beds for garlic, as it is nigh on impossible to get local grown garlic anymore up here that chinese bleached white imported stuff ahs flooded the market. thsi will dry up reserves of plantable corms for people like us and make buying this stuff fresh for use is going to get expensive could be a bit of a money spinner in years to come. I agree about the garlic though we still get a fair bit of locally grown stuff in our nearest greengrocers ... I'm hoping to get a reasonably sized shadehouse finished this year and produce some seedlings and maybe seed for sale. I saw in a garden/hardware shop recently...a punnett of half a dozen cabbage plants for $5.00 !!! thats unbelievable, they were the most unhealthy looking plants too. Good luck with the sale and move when it happens mate. Pete |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
"Sirius631" wrote in message ... Sounds like raised beds would be the best bet. That is is what I'm using. I can't keep all the soil moist all the time with my rain water storage and supply capacity. I do need to expand this, but finances might soon dictate that I sould have held on to the cash. I can take solice in the fact that sparrows, which have been suffering a big dip in numbers, will invade in hoards to take a dust bath when the soil gets to that hydrophobic state. Yes indeedy raised beds are definately the go ... a few years ago I had some commercial worm beds which have been turned into garden beds and although the pure worm castings are not IMO good growing medium when they were spread into the surrounding area they improved the soil to a stage where it supports growth all year even through the dryest times ... only grasses a few trees and a rather unruly raspberry bush at the moment ... but the worms are still there and have spread also ... so the whole area is slightly raised (but was already in a higher spot) and the difference in soil texture, organic material and water holding capacity is nothing short of a miracle. I've used old cut down water tanks as big plant pots (5 feet across and about 2.5 feet deep) for Herbs and things like Mint and self setting plants like Garlic chives etc ... things that would get out of control or be hard to contain in a normal garden bed .. again the lack of rain is a prob and the hot sun on the tin water tanks doesnt help but having a real depth of workable soil is a real bonus. I understand the lack of finances ... dont we all? ... ya just have to do what you can when ya can .. I'll never get this place as I want it even if I live to be a hundred, but its kinda fun (sometimes) trying. Dont get too sunburnt Pete David Lloyd So open-minded - my brains dribbled out. |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
g'day pete,
who's looking for david i was thinking more along the lines o delilah heh chuckle yep that's me mate but you will still be able to chat and i hope you do i very much enjoyed our banta in the earlier days. it will ahve to be back to the big smoke and i will be lucky if it is on 30 perches. boy that is dear for seedling the most we pay is 2.80 or 3 bucks not sure, garlic could be a good little home garden cash crop for the organic growers or home growers as in this neck of the woods south east qld the home grown stuff that will grow is scarcer then the proverbial hens teeth. i'm also amassing varieties of perpetual types of onion faimilies onions now at around 4 bucks a kilo and rising just like gold prices homegardeners are going to be looking for something perpetual. and realy for most they could grow these things for all their cullenary uses in such a little space. we've had 3 solid bites since i put it on line on wednesday night. keep the chat coming yo can always revert to e/mail. len snipped -- happy gardening 'it works for me it could work for you,' "in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/ |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
"Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:acexc.11087$1L4.5742@okepread02... "Oz" wrote in message ... Gordon Couger writes Do the conventional plots rotate the same as organic plots, are they in continues wheat or some other rotation. Both are first wheats after break. The organic rotations have far more breaks than the arable ones. The largest loss in organic agriculture is the years that the land is in low production rotations that produce low value or no value crops. Of course. Some of these are complete losses being, in effect, cover crops. Red clover is a typical one, with herbiage all ploughed under, in all-arable organic rotations. Then for a true picture the total yield in some unit, dollar or pounds sterling per acre in total yield of wheat, feed, fiber meat and what ever should be totaled up and divided by the number of years in the study giving true value of the output of an organic farming operation per unit area compared to a conventional or modern farm. Showing how much far they are really behind modern methods. With total production nearer 25% or less that of a modern farm ran in an intensive operation. Gordon Hey Gord, don't forget to factor in the carcinogen and neurotoxin levels/acre. In that your methodology is way ahead. How's your blood, anyways? The last farmer I worked for couldn't walk 100 yards because his blood no longer carries oxygen, thanks to the pesticides he worked with his whole life. The good news for progressive thinkers, and you're not one of them, is that the old guard is dying off, and their children's thinking will change or show in the popularity they enjoy. The writing is on the wall, and the cost of producing and spreading poison is becoming something only the very most willfully ignorant can ignore. |
Organic does not mean pesticide free...
"jonathan zeidman" wrote in message ... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:acexc.11087$1L4.5742@okepread02... "Oz" wrote in message ... Gordon Couger writes Do the conventional plots rotate the same as organic plots, are they in continues wheat or some other rotation. Both are first wheats after break. The organic rotations have far more breaks than the arable ones. The largest loss in organic agriculture is the years that the land is in low production rotations that produce low value or no value crops. Of course. Some of these are complete losses being, in effect, cover crops. Red clover is a typical one, with herbiage all ploughed under, in all-arable organic rotations. Then for a true picture the total yield in some unit, dollar or pounds sterling per acre in total yield of wheat, feed, fiber meat and what ever should be totaled up and divided by the number of years in the study giving true value of the output of an organic farming operation per unit area compared to a conventional or modern farm. Showing how much far they are really behind modern methods. With total production nearer 25% or less that of a modern farm ran in an intensive operation. Gordon Hey Gord, don't forget to factor in the carcinogen and neurotoxin levels/acre. In that your methodology is way ahead. How's your blood, anyways? The last farmer I worked for couldn't walk 100 yards because his blood no longer carries oxygen, thanks to the pesticides he worked with his whole life. The good news for progressive thinkers, and you're not one of them, is that the old guard is dying off, and their children's thinking will change or show in the popularity they enjoy. The writing is on the wall, and the cost of producing and spreading poison is becoming something only the very most willfully ignorant can ignore. Not a thing wrong with my blood. I do have a problem with multiple sclerosis that came down with when I was 15 before I had any thing to do with farm chemicals. I saw my spray pilot the other day and at 70 is still working and is healthy and has a little gray hair. My dad started having problems walking a year ago he will be 96 in two months. My grand mother lived to 104 and her mother to 96 all with farming and ranching bakgrounds. I do know a few farmers that injured themselves with insecticides by being careless. That is why I hired experts to apply mine. The average age of a farmer is nearly 60 and very very few young men are coming back to the farm. My second cousin just took over the family ranch and she is 58. Her dad stayed on until he died at 88. I would like you to define what you think progressive agriculture is? Gordon |
Gordon Couger Wrote: "ta" wrote in message ... rick etter wrote: And that means also not cruelty-free. Just what I've been saying... "...some organic pesticides have mammalian toxicities that are far higher than many synthetic pesticides..." http://tinyurl.com/6a5y2 Wow, I can't *believe* CFGI, which is funded by the right-wing think tank Hudson Institute, could possibly be promoting information that supports their big agribusiness clients like Monsanto, ConAgra, and Archer Daniels Midland, who have everything to lose by the success of organic farming. But to be fair, I can't answer the specific charges as I'm not an expert, so I'm expanding the thread to get a wider range of input. Does the messenger make the message any less correct? What Alex fails to mention are the pest that organic pesticides won't touch. The boll weevil, alfalfa aphid and corn root worm to name a few. In the last 100 years we have made ever effort to make farming less invasive on the land and going back to organic farming would not only reduce yields and increase erosion but plunge the world into famine if it was the only way allowed as many want. What everybody seems to be unaware of are plant extracts and micro-organisms that have been tried and tested, work as well, if not better, than chemical pesticides, cannot damage beneficial insects and are harmless to animals, humans, plants and wildlife. Best of all, and this is a trick that chemicals can't perform, it's impossible for insect pests to develop resistance to them due to their mode of action. To take the three pests mentioned; Neem oil kills boll weevil and it's been in use 4,000 years, alfalfa aphid is killed by BDB extract and that goes gack to the mists of time as a traditional Chinese herbal medicine and corn root worm is resoundingly eradicated by a fungus that is responsible for green muscadine disease, first discovered in the 1830s in Europe. They are pesticides, Gordon, but not as we know it and they just happen to be 100% organic. But don't worry, they won't be appearing on the shelves of your local agricultural merchant to tempt the weak; because they're completely natural they can't be patented so no company is going to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds getting them licenced and discovering they can't protect it. W.R. Grace patented a method of extracting Azadarachtin from Neem oil to allow it to last longer on the leaf surface but mother nature, for some perverse reason, decreed that Neem oil works just as well with its main ingredient removed. Any chemical pesticides spring to mind that can do that? As for conventional versus organic yields, Azotobacter will outperform any amount of chemical fertiliser; it will never scorch plants, no matter how much you use, it produces it's own organic matter to build up soil fertility and it can't create nitrate run-off. As far as soil erosion is concerned, planting through a permanent green manure crop is helping to reverse years of soil erosion caused by conventional farming in South America. I can also add Trichoderma; unlike methyl bromide, you don't need to wear a gas mask, you can plant immediately and it kills all pathogenic fungi. As a bonus it's also a plant growth stimulant. There is a lot of cutting edge bio-technology out there and if the organic lobby stopped sniping at conventional farmers they might notice that the world has moved on and it is they who may well be living in the past. If you want a glimpse into the future of organic growing, visit http://www.gardenknowledge.co.uk -- lammas |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:49 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter