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Help with identifcation
PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely
someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
"Peter B" schreef
PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! *** I am not seeing such a post. Are you sure it did come through? PvR |
Help with identifcation
Don't see it here either.
P van Rijckevorsel wrote: "Peter B" schreef PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! *** I am not seeing such a post. Are you sure it did come through? PvR |
Help with identifcation
"Peter B" wrote in message
... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Can you repeat the posts? They don't appear to have made it here. They're also not in the Google groups archive. cheers |
Help with identifcation
Thank you for your responses. This is odd, because the posts appear on my
computer! I will try again here. There are 2 sets, both on 'flickr': This set from the Tatra mountains in Poland in July: http://www.flickr.com/photos/3685655...7594232798196/ This plant from the Pulsano Gorge in the Gargano, Italy, this April. Any help will be appreciated - thanks Peter "Peter B" wrote in message ... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
Sorry, here is the missing URL for the Gargano plant:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3685655...7594232772730/ "Peter B" wrote in message ... Thank you for your responses. This is odd, because the posts appear on my computer! I will try again here. There are 2 sets, both on 'flickr': This set from the Tatra mountains in Poland in July: http://www.flickr.com/photos/3685655...7594232798196/ This plant from the Pulsano Gorge in the Gargano, Italy, this April. Any help will be appreciated - thanks Peter "Peter B" wrote in message ... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
Oh! To be back in the Tatras again!!!
The first two images--it's not a Solanum. This is an odd composite, Prenanthes purpurea (or something else very close.) What look like petals are individual florets. Compare the photo at: http://erick.dronnet.free.fr/belles_...s_purpurea.htm The third one in this set, the dangly yellow, is indeed. Impatiens. In the US we call it jewelweed. The fourth is something in the Caryophyllaceae--your guess of a Dianthus is probably close. The one from Italy is really interesting. Looks to me like an umbellifer--try poking about in Eryngium. Monique in TX Peter B wrote: Thank you for your responses. This is odd, because the posts appear on my computer! I will try again here. There are 2 sets, both on 'flickr': This set from the Tatra mountains in Poland in July: http://www.flickr.com/photos/3685655...7594232798196/ This plant from the Pulsano Gorge in the Gargano, Italy, this April. Any help will be appreciated - thanks Peter "Peter B" wrote in message ... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
Hi Monique
Thanks for that. Yes - the Tatras are great. I have looked up P. purpurea and ascertained that it is found in Poland. Comparing various images on Google to mine, I am pretty sure that you are right. I have tried Eryngium and can find nothing quite like my plant. With me in Italy was a fantastic botanist (he could sort out all the 49 species of Orchid we found there and the rest, no problem) and this was the only one to stump him. He felt it was possibly an Asteracea. I will suggest he looks in the Umbellifers. I have searched all amongst Dianthus, which that one surely is, the nearest I can get in petal shape is D. segueri, but not the markings. The trouble with searching the internet is that there are so many horticultural varieties! I would particularly like a lead on the "Saxifrage". Thanks again Peter "monique" wrote in message ... Oh! To be back in the Tatras again!!! The first two images--it's not a Solanum. This is an odd composite, Prenanthes purpurea (or something else very close.) What look like petals are individual florets. Compare the photo at: http://erick.dronnet.free.fr/belles_...s_purpurea.htm The third one in this set, the dangly yellow, is indeed. Impatiens. In the US we call it jewelweed. The fourth is something in the Caryophyllaceae--your guess of a Dianthus is probably close. The one from Italy is really interesting. Looks to me like an umbellifer--try poking about in Eryngium. Monique in TX Peter B wrote: Thank you for your responses. This is odd, because the posts appear on my computer! I will try again here. There are 2 sets, both on 'flickr': This set from the Tatra mountains in Poland in July: http://www.flickr.com/photos/3685655...7594232798196/ This plant from the Pulsano Gorge in the Gargano, Italy, this April. Any help will be appreciated - thanks Peter "Peter B" wrote in message ... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
In message , Peter B
writes I have tried Eryngium and can find nothing quite like my plant. With me in Italy was a fantastic botanist (he could sort out all the 49 species of Orchid we found there and the rest, no problem) and this was the only one to stump him. He felt it was possibly an Asteracea. I will suggest he looks in the Umbellifers. I wasn't going to argue with Eryngium, but if you think that it isn't you could try Dipsacaceae or perhaps Adoxaceae. -- Stewart Robert Hinsley |
Help with identifcation
In message , Peter B
writes I would particularly like a lead on the "Saxifrage". Looks to me like Moschatel, Adoxa moschatellina, vernacular name "Town Hall Clock", because of the arrangement of the flowers. http://www.english-country-garden.co...hall-clock.htm cheers, robin -- www.newforestartgallery.co.uk www.badminston.demon.co.uk www.robinsomes.co.uk www.robinsomes.co.uk/oz www.robinsomes.co.uk/greece03 Trust me, I'm a webmaster... |
Help with identifcation
In article , Robin Somes wrote:
Looks to me like Moschatel, Adoxa moschatellina, vernacular name "Town Hall Clock" I doubt it. One of its other vernacular names is Five-faced Bishop, which gives a clue to the number of flowers on each spike. Peter's specimen has many flowers. I don't know what Peter's plant actually is, though. 8-) Roger |
Help with identifcation
In article , Monique wrote:
The third one in this set, the dangly yellow, is indeed. Impatiens. In the US we call it jewelweed. Looks to me like /Impatiens noli-tangere/, known in Britain as Touch-me-not Balsam. I've noted this on Flickr. Roger |
Help with identifcation
Thank you everyone.
Yes, I aggree with Roger. Superficially the the individual blooms of the "saxifrage" might look like Adoxa, but the structure is wrong. Does anyone disagree or agree that it is a saxifrage? Seems to have 10 stamens, but it looks like 3 styles each on a free carpel. The Italian job is a real puzzle. I can find nothing like it on Google Images under any of the suggested families. Peter "Peter B" wrote in message ... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
Does anyone
disagree or agree that it is a saxifrage? Seems to have 10 stamens, but it looks like 3 styles each on a free carpel. As far as I can tell from http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o it has 6 stamens and 6 tepals. So check out monocots. Best -- Jan The Italian job is a real puzzle. I can find nothing like it on Google Images under any of the suggested families. Peter "Peter B" wrote in message ... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
Thanks Jan, but I can definitely count 10 stamens on the apical corolla and
more than 6 tepals (but I cannot see 10 tepals). The plant is very small - each corolla is less that 5mm across. I cannot recall the leaf structure. Peter "Jan De Laet" wrote in message ... Does anyone disagree or agree that it is a saxifrage? Seems to have 10 stamens, but it looks like 3 styles each on a free carpel. As far as I can tell from http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o it has 6 stamens and 6 tepals. So check out monocots. Best -- Jan The Italian job is a real puzzle. I can find nothing like it on Google Images under any of the suggested families. Peter "Peter B" wrote in message ... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
Peter,
I have problems interpreting what can be seen near the apex of the inflorescence in http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o , but the flower further down, with its apex (almost) pointing to the viewer, surely looks trimerous. Wouldn't you agree? Best -- Jan B wrote: Thanks Jan, but I can definitely count 10 stamens on the apical corolla and more than 6 tepals (but I cannot see 10 tepals). The plant is very small - each corolla is less that 5mm across. I cannot recall the leaf structure. Peter "Jan De Laet" wrote in message ... Does anyone disagree or agree that it is a saxifrage? Seems to have 10 stamens, but it looks like 3 styles each on a free carpel. As far as I can tell from http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o it has 6 stamens and 6 tepals. So check out monocots. Best -- Jan The Italian job is a real puzzle. I can find nothing like it on Google Images under any of the suggested families. Peter "Peter B" wrote in message ... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
Peter,
I have problems interpreting what can be seen near the apex of the inflorescence in http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o but the flower further down, with its apex (almost) pointing to the viewer, surely looks trimerous. Wouldn't you agree? Best -- Jan Peter B wrote: Thanks Jan, but I can definitely count 10 stamens on the apical corolla and more than 6 tepals (but I cannot see 10 tepals). The plant is very small - each corolla is less that 5mm across. I cannot recall the leaf structure. Peter "Jan De Laet" wrote in message ... Does anyone disagree or agree that it is a saxifrage? Seems to have 10 stamens, but it looks like 3 styles each on a free carpel. As far as I can tell from http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o it has 6 stamens and 6 tepals. So check out monocots. Best -- Jan The Italian job is a real puzzle. I can find nothing like it on Google Images under any of the suggested families. Peter "Peter B" wrote in message ... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
"Jan De Laet" schreef
Peter, I have problems interpreting what can be seen near the apex of the inflorescence in http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o but the flower further down, with its apex (almost) pointing to the viewer, surely looks trimerous. Wouldn't you agree? Best -- Jan *** FWIW I would agree with that. Pity that there is only the one flower that allows a count PvR |
Help with identifcation
Jan
It is very good of you to take the trouble - thanks. Yes, that one does look as though it might be in Liliaceae. In fact it was there that I first looked. The problem was, I was with other people at the time and did not have time to examine the plant properly in situ, so a lot is guess work. I will try Googling Poland and Liliaceae Cheers Peter "Jan De Laet" wrote in message ... Peter, I have problems interpreting what can be seen near the apex of the inflorescence in http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o , but the flower further down, with its apex (almost) pointing to the viewer, surely looks trimerous. Wouldn't you agree? Best -- Jan B wrote: Thanks Jan, but I can definitely count 10 stamens on the apical corolla and more than 6 tepals (but I cannot see 10 tepals). The plant is very small - each corolla is less that 5mm across. I cannot recall the leaf structure. Peter "Jan De Laet" wrote in message ... Does anyone disagree or agree that it is a saxifrage? Seems to have 10 stamens, but it looks like 3 styles each on a free carpel. As far as I can tell from http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o it has 6 stamens and 6 tepals. So check out monocots. Best -- Jan The Italian job is a real puzzle. I can find nothing like it on Google Images under any of the suggested families. Peter "Peter B" wrote in message ... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
Jan
I think I have found it. Tofieldia calyculata. See http://rostliny.nikde.cz/view.php?ci...nku=2004071302. The specimen shown is more flourishing than mine, but it seems unmistakeable. The apical flower that I referred to, must be two, on behind the other. What do you think? Peter "Jan De Laet" wrote in message ... Peter, I have problems interpreting what can be seen near the apex of the inflorescence in http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o , but the flower further down, with its apex (almost) pointing to the viewer, surely looks trimerous. Wouldn't you agree? Best -- Jan B wrote: Thanks Jan, but I can definitely count 10 stamens on the apical corolla and more than 6 tepals (but I cannot see 10 tepals). The plant is very small - each corolla is less that 5mm across. I cannot recall the leaf structure. Peter "Jan De Laet" wrote in message ... Does anyone disagree or agree that it is a saxifrage? Seems to have 10 stamens, but it looks like 3 styles each on a free carpel. As far as I can tell from http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o it has 6 stamens and 6 tepals. So check out monocots. Best -- Jan The Italian job is a real puzzle. I can find nothing like it on Google Images under any of the suggested families. Peter "Peter B" wrote in message ... PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006. Surely someone out there can help! Thanks Peter |
Help with identifcation
"Peter B" schreef
Jan I think I have found it. Tofieldia calyculata. See http://rostliny.nikde.cz/view.php?ci...nku=2004071302. The specimen shown is more flourishing than mine, but it seems unmistakeable. The apical flower that I referred to, must be two, on behind the other. What do you think? *** I was just going to suggest /Tofieldia/. Somebody pointed one out to me this afternoon and when I was looking at my photograph just now I noted the resemblance. Once again a case of me being too slow. PvR |
Help with identifcation
In message , Roger Whitehead
writes In article , Robin Somes wrote: Looks to me like Moschatel, Adoxa moschatellina, vernacular name "Town Hall Clock" I doubt it. One of its other vernacular names is Five-faced Bishop, which gives a clue to the number of flowers on each spike. Peter's specimen has many flowers. Looking again at his picture, you're right, of course. For some reason, possibly the blade of grass coming up vertically, I had assumed that the uppermost 2 or 3 flowers on the stalk belonged to a separate stalk behind. Doh! Shows just how much one can see what one's expecting to see... cheers, robin I don't know what Peter's plant actually is, though. 8-) -- www.newforestartgallery.co.uk www.badminston.demon.co.uk www.robinsomes.co.uk www.robinsomes.co.uk/oz www.robinsomes.co.uk/greece03 Trust me, I'm a webmaster... |
Help with identifcation
In article , Robin Somes wrote:
Shows just how much one can see what one's expecting to see... And how hard it can sometimes be to identify plants from photos. So many of the normal clues and cues are missing. Roger |
Help with identifcation
Roger Whitehead wrote:
And how hard it can sometimes be to identify plants from photos. So many of the normal clues and cues are missing. Indeed. Also, pictures often show just one or a few flowers (leaves, stems, ...), and therefore one can never be sure if the thing shown is typical for the specimen or species at hand (unless the photographer has taken the trouble to add a note about that or take many pictures). This is related to Pauls' observation yesterday, with respect to one of Peter's pictures, that is was a pity that that pictures just showed one flower in which floral parts could properly be counted. As anyone who has ever used identification keys surely is aware, it happens rather frequently to find, e.g., a few tetramerous flowers in inflorescences that have otherwise tens of pentamerous flowers and stuff like that. Some documented examples that illustrate such things can be found below. Kerria japonica: most flowers pentamerous, but tetramerous flowers can be found occasionaly as well - http://www.plantsystematics.org/cgi-...ank=bi nomial Ptelea trifoliata: in the tree that I had a look at, most flowers were tetramerous, but quite some pentamerous flowers could be found as well - http://www.plantsystematics.org/cgi-...ank= binomial Paris quadrifolia: plants typically with four leaves, but specimens with, e.g., five leaves can be found as well - http://www.plantsystematics.org/cgi-...ank= binomial Best regards -- Jan |
Help with identifcation
In message , Jan De Laet
writes As anyone who has ever used identification keys surely is aware, it happens rather frequently to find, e.g., a few tetramerous flowers in inflorescences that have otherwise tens of pentamerous flowers and stuff like that. Some documented examples that illustrate such things can be found below. I've been taking note of aberrations among mallows. See http://www.malvaceae.info/Biology/Aberrations.html I've seen flowers with between 3 and 9 petals. What makes the situation potentially worse for identification purposes is that the aberrations are concentrated among the earliest flowers, so there may not be a normal flower visible to give the game away. Sidalcea seems to throw up hexamerous flowers more commonly that tetramerous ones. -- Stewart Robert Hinsley |
Help with identifcation
Yep, this happens all the time. What drives the students nuts is
finding monocot flowers with dicot part numbers and vice versa. We see this often with Nothoscordum, Hypoxis, Phlox, etc. M. Reed As anyone who has ever used identification keys surely is aware, it happens rather frequently to find, e.g., a few tetramerous flowers in inflorescences that have otherwise tens of pentamerous flowers and stuff like that. Some documented examples that illustrate such things can be found below. I've been taking note of aberrations among mallows. See http://www.malvaceae.info/Biology/Aberrations.html I've seen flowers with between 3 and 9 petals. What makes the situation potentially worse for identification purposes is that the aberrations are concentrated among the earliest flowers, so there may not be a normal flower visible to give the game away. Sidalcea seems to throw up hexamerous flowers more commonly that tetramerous ones. |
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