SV: Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
 

"Shimpaku" is a name of a dwarf and irregular vase-shape form of Juniperus
chinensis s.l.

Regards GEG

Juniperus media V.D.Dmitriev (IK)
Juniperus chinensis Hort.ex Endl. (IK)
Juniperus chinensis Linn. (IK)
Juniperus chinensis Roxb. (IK)
Juniperus chinensis var. gaussenii (Cheng) J.Silba (IK)
Juniperus chinensis var. taiwanensis R.P.Adams & C.F.Hsieh (IK)


Iris Cohen skrev i
...
Can someone look up the correct classification for 'Shimpaku'? I have seen
it
referred to J. chinensis, J. xmedia, and J. chinensis var. sargentii.
Thanks,
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so
much
that ain't so."
Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885

SV: Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
 

'Shimpaku' is a name of a dwarf and irregular vase-shape form of Juniperus
chinensis s.l.
I guess with the change from J. xmedia to J. xpfitzeriana, J. chinensis s. l.
just got wider.


Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much
that ain't so."
Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885

Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
 

'Shimpaku' is a name of a dwarf and irregular vase-shape form of
Juniperus chinensis s.l.

Iris Cohen schreef
I guess with the change from J. xmedia to J. xpfitzeriana, J. chinensis s.
l. just got wider.

Iris,

+ + +
An "irregular vase-shape" does not sound all that wide ;-)
PvR

Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
 

An "irregular vase-shape" does not sound all that wide ;-)

I think at this point we had better explain to those who are new to botany,
when you see the abbreviation s. l. after the name of a genus or species, it
stands for sensu lato, in the wide sense. This means the species with all the
varieties on its fringes thrown in. The opposite is s. s., sensu stricta, in
the narrow sense. That is why I said that with the elimination of Juniperus
xmedia, and the transfer of several of its cultivars back to J. chinensis, that
species just got wider. Peter was trying to be funny.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much
that ain't so."
Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885

Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
 

An "irregular vase-shape" does not sound all that wide ;-)

Iris Cohen schreef in berichtnieuws
I think at this point we had better explain to those who are new to
botany, when you see the abbreviation s. l. after the name of a genus or
species, it stands for sensu lato, in the wide sense. This means the species
with all the varieties on its fringes thrown in. The opposite is s. s.,
sensu stricta, in the narrow sense. That is why I said that with the
elimination of Juniperus xmedia, and the transfer of several of its
cultivars back to J. chinensis, that species just got wider. Peter was
trying to be funny.
Iris,

+ + +
Well it was you who used the abbreviation, so if you feel it needs
explaining ... Note that on occassion a lot more can be "thrown in" than
varieties. These days it is not exceptional to see a dozen or so
neighbouring species absorbed in a wider defined species during a revision.

On a more serious note: I am not at all sure if adding new cultivars adds
anything to a species concept, or the "sense" of a species.

For instance does developing a weird new pepper cultivar extend the species
limits of Capsicum annuum, if it belongs to that species?

If it should be a hybrid species, that the new cultivar is added to, it does
not make any difference whatsoever. The limits of a hybrid species are set
by parentage.

The delimitation of any given species is determined by taxonomists, who tend
to ignore cultivars (and justly so?).
PvR

Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
 

Well it was you who used the abbreviation,

Not I. You have to watch those successive quotes. Somebody else wrote in that
'Shimpaku' is a cultivar in J. chinensis s. l.

I am not at all sure if adding new cultivars adds anything to a species
concept, or the "sense" of a species.
In this case it just indicates that eliminating J. xmedia moves the boundaries
of J. chinensis back to where they used to be.
Here's something else. Apparently Larix xmarschlinsii Is the correct technical
name for Dunkeld larch. (decidua x kaempferi)


Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much
that ain't so."
Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885

Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
 

Iris Cohen schreef
Well it was you who used the abbreviation,
Not I. You have to watch those successive quotes. Somebody else wrote in
that 'Shimpaku' is a cultivar in J. chinensis s. l.

+ + +
If we are splitting hairs: You did use it. You just did not introduce it.
However you were the first to use it in a sentence which depended on its
meaning being known :-)
+ + +

I am not at all sure if adding new cultivars adds anything to a
species concept, or the "sense" of a species.
In this case it just indicates that eliminating J. xmedia moves the
boundaries of J. chinensis back to where they used to be.

+ + +
That is the question. Eliminating the name Juniperus x media by itself is a
matter of a name (nomenclatural), while the boundaries of Juniperus
chinensis are a matter of the plants belonging to it (taxonomic).
+ + +

Here's something else. Apparently Larix xmarschlinsii is the correct
technical name for Dunkeld larch. (decidua x kaempferi)
Iris,

+ + +
Apparently so. Has been for a while, too. A quick scan shows a 1980
publication on the matter, but unfortunately in an out of the way journal.
Not easy to check.
PvR