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#1
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SV: Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
"Shimpaku" is a name of a dwarf and irregular vase-shape form of Juniperus
chinensis s.l. Regards GEG Juniperus media V.D.Dmitriev (IK) Juniperus chinensis Hort.ex Endl. (IK) Juniperus chinensis Linn. (IK) Juniperus chinensis Roxb. (IK) Juniperus chinensis var. gaussenii (Cheng) J.Silba (IK) Juniperus chinensis var. taiwanensis R.P.Adams & C.F.Hsieh (IK) Iris Cohen skrev i ... Can someone look up the correct classification for 'Shimpaku'? I have seen it referred to J. chinensis, J. xmedia, and J. chinensis var. sargentii. Thanks, Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885 |
#2
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SV: Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
'Shimpaku' is a name of a dwarf and irregular vase-shape form of Juniperus
chinensis s.l. I guess with the change from J. xmedia to J. xpfitzeriana, J. chinensis s. l. just got wider. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885 |
#3
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Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
'Shimpaku' is a name of a dwarf and irregular vase-shape form of
Juniperus chinensis s.l. Iris Cohen schreef I guess with the change from J. xmedia to J. xpfitzeriana, J. chinensis s. l. just got wider. Iris, + + + An "irregular vase-shape" does not sound all that wide ;-) PvR |
#4
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Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
An "irregular vase-shape" does not sound all that wide ;-)
I think at this point we had better explain to those who are new to botany, when you see the abbreviation s. l. after the name of a genus or species, it stands for sensu lato, in the wide sense. This means the species with all the varieties on its fringes thrown in. The opposite is s. s., sensu stricta, in the narrow sense. That is why I said that with the elimination of Juniperus xmedia, and the transfer of several of its cultivars back to J. chinensis, that species just got wider. Peter was trying to be funny. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885 |
#5
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Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
An "irregular vase-shape" does not sound all that wide ;-)
Iris Cohen schreef in berichtnieuws I think at this point we had better explain to those who are new to botany, when you see the abbreviation s. l. after the name of a genus or species, it stands for sensu lato, in the wide sense. This means the species with all the varieties on its fringes thrown in. The opposite is s. s., sensu stricta, in the narrow sense. That is why I said that with the elimination of Juniperus xmedia, and the transfer of several of its cultivars back to J. chinensis, that species just got wider. Peter was trying to be funny. Iris, + + + Well it was you who used the abbreviation, so if you feel it needs explaining ... Note that on occassion a lot more can be "thrown in" than varieties. These days it is not exceptional to see a dozen or so neighbouring species absorbed in a wider defined species during a revision. On a more serious note: I am not at all sure if adding new cultivars adds anything to a species concept, or the "sense" of a species. For instance does developing a weird new pepper cultivar extend the species limits of Capsicum annuum, if it belongs to that species? If it should be a hybrid species, that the new cultivar is added to, it does not make any difference whatsoever. The limits of a hybrid species are set by parentage. The delimitation of any given species is determined by taxonomists, who tend to ignore cultivars (and justly so?). PvR |
#6
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Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
Well it was you who used the abbreviation,
Not I. You have to watch those successive quotes. Somebody else wrote in that 'Shimpaku' is a cultivar in J. chinensis s. l. I am not at all sure if adding new cultivars adds anything to a species concept, or the "sense" of a species. In this case it just indicates that eliminating J. xmedia moves the boundaries of J. chinensis back to where they used to be. Here's something else. Apparently Larix xmarschlinsii Is the correct technical name for Dunkeld larch. (decidua x kaempferi) Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885 |
#7
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Juniperus 'Shimpaku'
Iris Cohen schreef
Well it was you who used the abbreviation, Not I. You have to watch those successive quotes. Somebody else wrote in that 'Shimpaku' is a cultivar in J. chinensis s. l. + + + If we are splitting hairs: You did use it. You just did not introduce it. However you were the first to use it in a sentence which depended on its meaning being known :-) + + + I am not at all sure if adding new cultivars adds anything to a species concept, or the "sense" of a species. In this case it just indicates that eliminating J. xmedia moves the boundaries of J. chinensis back to where they used to be. + + + That is the question. Eliminating the name Juniperus x media by itself is a matter of a name (nomenclatural), while the boundaries of Juniperus chinensis are a matter of the plants belonging to it (taxonomic). + + + Here's something else. Apparently Larix xmarschlinsii is the correct technical name for Dunkeld larch. (decidua x kaempferi) Iris, + + + Apparently so. Has been for a while, too. A quick scan shows a 1980 publication on the matter, but unfortunately in an out of the way journal. Not easy to check. PvR |
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