are there any aquatic plants (seaweeds) growing in the Dead Sea, or is the
salt concentration too high for them?

As far as I know, nothing grows in the Dead Sea except perhaps some bacteria.
It seems to be a saturated solution and produces interesting formations of rock
salt crystals.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Yes, the so-called "blue green algae" are really photosynthetic bacteria!!!


Iris Cohen wrote in message
...
are there any aquatic plants (seaweeds) growing in the Dead Sea, or is
the
salt concentration too high for them?

As far as I know, nothing grows in the Dead Sea except perhaps some
bacteria.
It seems to be a saturated solution and produces interesting formations of
rock
salt crystals.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Yes, the so-called "blue green algae" are really photosynthetic bacteria!!!


Do you happen to know why one of them lives inside Ficus carica? It supposedly
fixes extra nitrogen, & in the process makes the tree smell like you forgot to
clean the cat's litter pan.
Iris

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Yes, the so-called "blue green algae" are really photosynthetic bacteria!!!


Do you happen to know why one of them lives inside Ficus carica? It supposedly
fixes extra nitrogen, & in the process makes the tree smell like you forgot to
clean the cat's litter pan.
Iris

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Yes, the so-called "blue green algae" are really photosynthetic bacteria!!!


Do you happen to know why one of them lives inside Ficus carica? It supposedly
fixes extra nitrogen, & in the process makes the tree smell like you forgot to
clean the cat's litter pan.
Iris

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

In article ,
[Iris Cohen] wrote...

Yes, the so-called "blue green algae" are really photosynthetic bacteria!!!

But even the eukaryotic "algae" aren't a single group of
related organisms.

Do you happen to know why one of them lives inside Ficus carica? It supposedly
fixes extra nitrogen, & in the process makes the tree smell like you forgot to
clean the cat's litter pan.

I've not heard of this. Are you sure?

Where inside the plant are the blue-greens supposed
to live?

Cyanobacteria do live symbiotically in various plants [e.g.,
in some water ferns (_Azolla_ spp.), in cycad "coralloid roots",
inside the stems of _Gunnera_] and do fix nitrogen, but I've never
heard of any such role in Ficus spp.. A web search and a try with
Biological Abstracts both just turned up nothing.

_Ficus carica_ foliage is often noticeably aromatic, either fresh
or dried, but I've never noticed the smell to be at all offensive
the way you describe. Perhaps some cats have been doing their
business around the fig tree?

cheers

In article ,
[Iris Cohen] wrote...

Yes, the so-called "blue green algae" are really photosynthetic bacteria!!!

But even the eukaryotic "algae" aren't a single group of
related organisms.

Do you happen to know why one of them lives inside Ficus carica? It supposedly
fixes extra nitrogen, & in the process makes the tree smell like you forgot to
clean the cat's litter pan.

I've not heard of this. Are you sure?

Where inside the plant are the blue-greens supposed
to live?

Cyanobacteria do live symbiotically in various plants [e.g.,
in some water ferns (_Azolla_ spp.), in cycad "coralloid roots",
inside the stems of _Gunnera_] and do fix nitrogen, but I've never
heard of any such role in Ficus spp.. A web search and a try with
Biological Abstracts both just turned up nothing.

_Ficus carica_ foliage is often noticeably aromatic, either fresh
or dried, but I've never noticed the smell to be at all offensive
the way you describe. Perhaps some cats have been doing their
business around the fig tree?

cheers

Do you happen to know why one of them lives inside Ficus carica? It
supposedly fixes extra nitrogen, & in the process makes the tree smell like you
forgot to clean the cat's litter pan.

I've not heard of this. Are you sure?

That is what I was told by a botany professor.

Where inside the plant are the blue-greens supposed to live?

In the leaves. I used to have a bonsai F. carica. When it was in the house, the
smell got strong whenever the sun shone directly on the leaves.

Cyanobacteria do live symbiotically in various plants [e.g., in some water
ferns (_Azolla_ spp.), in cycad "coralloid roots", inside the stems of
_Gunnera_] and do fix nitrogen, but I've never heard of any such role in Ficus
spp.. A web search and a try with Biological Abstracts both just turned up
nothing.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are met with on the
Web.

_Ficus carica_ foliage is often noticeably aromatic, either fresh or dried,
but I've never noticed the smell to be at all offensive the way you describe.

it is definitely an ammonia type smell. I got the same smell from fig trees in
Israel, and I also heard it occurs in Florida. When the tree is growing in the
ground outdoors, it is not that noticeable unless you walk right up to it.

Perhaps some cats have been doing their business around the fig tree?

On the contrary. At the time I had the fig tree I didn't own a cat. A friend of
mine compained that her neighbor's cat was "spraying" her fig tree, & had to
laugh when I told her it was the bacteria in the tree.
I gather that actually cyanobacteria are very busy in the higher plants.
This arrangement is not so strange when you stop to consider that F. carica is
the only really cold hardy member of the genus, and apparently the only one
with this symbiotic arrangement. Probably at some time during the Ice Age, F.
carica hit on this solution to the problem of a shorter growing season and less
light than its fellow species. Any genus that can come up with an inside-out
inflorescence should have no difficulty capturing a bacterium to further its
own ends.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

In article ,
wrote...

Do you happen to know why one of them lives inside Ficus carica? It
supposedly fixes extra nitrogen, & in the process makes the tree smell like
you
forgot to clean the cat's litter pan.

I've not heard of this. Are you sure?

That is what I was told by a botany professor.

Okay, but even botany professors may make mistakes. I suspect that
this was just an error.

Where inside the plant are the blue-greens supposed to live?

In the leaves. I used to have a bonsai F. carica. When it was in the house,
the
smell got strong whenever the sun shone directly on the leaves.

Right. F. carica often has strongly-smelling leaves, but I doubt
it's due to any symbiotic organisms living in the leaves.

Cyanobacteria do live symbiotically in various plants [e.g., in some water
ferns (_Azolla_ spp.), in cycad "coralloid roots", inside the stems of
_Gunnera_] and do fix nitrogen, but I've never heard of any such role in Ficus
spp.. A web search and a try with Biological Abstracts both just turned up
nothing.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are met with on the
Web.

Of course. And it might be sad if all interesting biological phenomena
were very well-known and covered by numerous web pages.

But as for the "on the web" bit, BioAbstracts searches the primary
scientific literature. Nothing came up with regard to Ficus leaf
symbionts. On the other hand, other plants with nitrogen-fixing
symbiotic bacteria in the leaves are indeed known, and several
research papers on them did turn up in my search [e.g., some
_Psychotria_ spp. (Rubiaceae) and _Ardisia crenata_ have
nitrogen-fixing symbiotic bacteria living in "leaf nodules" that
may be functionally comparable to the root nodules of legumes,
etc.].

One might reasonably expect that if nitrogen-fixing leaf symbionts
actually existed in an economically-important crop plant such as F.
carica, there would be at least a few recent studies of the system.
There evidently aren't any. [Agricola and a few other databases also
came up dry]

_Ficus carica_ foliage is often noticeably aromatic, either fresh or dried,
but I've never noticed the smell to be at all offensive the way you
describe.

it is definitely an ammonia type smell. I got the same smell from fig trees in
Israel, and I also heard it occurs in Florida. When the tree is growing in the
ground outdoors, it is not that noticeable unless you walk right up to it.

I think we're talking about the same smell, but I suspect that it's
coming from the fig plant itself, not a symbiont. [Oddly, although
most other Ficus don't seem to share the smell, a few other Moraceae
(e.g., the small herbaceous Fatoua) do smell a lot like F. carica]

Perhaps some cats have been doing their business around the fig tree?

On the contrary. At the time I had the fig tree I didn't own a cat. A friend
of
mine compained that her neighbor's cat was "spraying" her fig tree, & had to
laugh when I told her it was the bacteria in the tree.

Or, it's the tree itself.

I gather that actually cyanobacteria are very busy in the higher plants.
This arrangement is not so strange when you stop to consider that F. carica is
the only really cold hardy member of the genus, and apparently the only one
with this symbiotic arrangement.

If the arrangement actually exists, which I seriously doubt.

Probably at some time during the Ice Age, F.
carica hit on this solution to the problem of a shorter growing season and
less
light than its fellow species. Any genus that can come up with an inside-out
inflorescence should have no difficulty capturing a bacterium to further its
own ends.

Such symbioses do indeed occur in other plants [but with no obvious
ice-age connections], but I've found nothing mentioning any in
leaves of F. carica or any other Ficus species.

A couple of nice older monographs of figs and fig culture,
etc. that I just checked:

Eisen, G. 1901. THE FIG; ITS HISTORY, CULTURE AND CURING. U.S. Dept. Agr. Div.
Pomol. Bul. 9, 317 pp.

Condit, Ira J. 1947. The fig. Waltham, Mass., Chronica Botanica Co.

also have no mention of any smelly symbiotic blue-greens in fig
leaves. I think the professor was simply mistaken.

Of course, I could be wrong about this. If anyone knows of
more information on this possible fig leaf symbiosis, I'd be
glad to learn about it.

cheers

That is what I was told by a botany professor.

mel turner schreef
Okay, but even botany professors may make mistakes. I suspect that
this was just an error.

+ + +
I am uneasy. I will admit to having heard botany professors making erroneous
statements, when talking outside their own field. However I have also heard
botany professors making statements that seemed unbelievable, but did check
out.
+ + +

Where inside the plant are the blue-greens supposed to live?

In the leaves.

+ + +
Are you sure that he meant inside the leaves, or could he have meant in some
exterior feature of the leaves?
+ + +

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are met with on
the Web.

Of course.

[...]
Probably at some time during the Ice Age, F.carica hit on this solution
to the problem of a shorter growing season and less light than its fellow
species.

+ + +
No matter what is the case here, the Ice Ages will have nothing to do with
it? Wrong area and wrong timescale.
PvR

In article ,
[P van Rijckevorsel] wrote...

That is what I was told by a botany professor.

mel turner schreef
Okay, but even botany professors may make mistakes. I suspect that
this was just an error.

+ + +
I am uneasy. I will admit to having heard botany professors making erroneous
statements, when talking outside their own field. However I have also heard
botany professors making statements that seemed unbelievable, but did check
out.

Sure, and I'd be glad if this is yet another case where I get to
learn something new and surprising.

+ + +
Where inside the plant are the blue-greens supposed to live?

In the leaves.

+ + +
Are you sure that he meant inside the leaves, or could he have meant in some
exterior feature of the leaves?

Well, there are plants with symbiotic nitrogen-fixing bacteria living
inside of the leaves. I just doubt that this is another example. The
internal site isn't problematic; N-fixing blue-green colonies do form
deep inside massive solid stems of Gunnera species.

+ + +

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are met with on
the Web.

Of course.

[...]
Probably at some time during the Ice Age, F.carica hit on this solution
to the problem of a shorter growing season and less light than its fellow
species.

+ + +
No matter what is the case here, the Ice Ages will have nothing to do with
it? Wrong area and wrong timescale.

There is that, but I'd be more interested in the more basic
question of the existence of the phenomenon than in this perhaps
dubious explanation for it [if it doesn't exist, the explanation
is moot]. Still, have shortened growing seasons ever been invoked
before as a major selective pressure for evolving nitrogen-fixing
symbioses? Are they especially prevalent in arctic and high alpine
environments, or in desert ephemerals?]

cheers

Still, have shortened growing seasons ever been invoked
before as a major selective pressure for evolving nitrogen-fixing
symbioses? Are they especially prevalent in arctic and high alpine
environments BRBR

Where do most lichens and root-nodule legumes live?
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

[P van Rijckevorsel] wrote...
I am uneasy. I will admit to having heard botany professors making
erroneous statements, when talking outside their own field. However I have
also heard botany professors making statements that seemed unbelievable, but
did check out.

mel turner schreef
Sure, and I'd be glad if this is yet another case where I get to
learn something new and surprising.

Well, there are plants with symbiotic nitrogen-fixing bacteria living
inside of the leaves. I just doubt that this is another example. The
internal site isn't problematic; N-fixing blue-green colonies do form
deep inside massive solid stems of Gunnera species.

+ + +
This is just an isolated example, which does not prove much either way.
Certainly an internal site in Ficus carica would be BIG NEWS.
+ + +

There is that, but I'd be more interested in the more basic
question of the existence of the phenomenon than in this perhaps
dubious explanation for it [if it doesn't exist, the explanation
is moot].

+ + +
Agreed, the Ice Ages are just a red herring here.
I liked their effect on ferns, but that is an isolated case too
+ + +

Still, have shortened growing seasons ever been invoked
before as a major selective pressure for evolving nitrogen-fixing
symbioses? Are they especially prevalent in arctic and high alpine
environments, or in desert ephemerals?]

+ + +
Wouldn't know, but I'd guess that under those circumstances water will be
the limiting factor. Those circumstances will give interesting growth forms
and adaptations (like greenhouse plants), but nitrogen fixation should be
nowhere near the top of the list?
PvR

I liked their effect on ferns, but that is an isolated case too

What did the Ice Age do for ferns?
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

I liked their effect on ferns, but that is an isolated case too

Iris Cohen schreef in
What did the Ice Age do for ferns?

+ + +
I would not say "for ferns", as it is not really positive, but it was
certainly interesting. The haploid-diploid cycle manifests itself in ferns
in big diploid sporophytes and small haploid gametophytes except in some
populations hit by the Ices Ages.
PvR