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Help with Texas thorn tree/shrub/vine
Hi, I come to petition to the all knowing group for help.
My wife and I were out hiking last week in teh east texas piney woods region and stumbled across a very bad plant. I say bad - the plant just looked evil - pliant green woody stems seemingly only there to support the vast number of thorns, which ranged from an inch to 5 inches long. The main mass of the plant was thorn, the stems and thorns looked very similar, smooth and green. The whole tree looked vaguely cloud-shaped, but smaller plants were quite vine like. The largest trunk we saw was about four inches in diameter, plants were all free standing. The leaves were trefoil and smooth edged, obovoid (new word for me), and were mostly shed for winter i suppose. No flowers that we could see. The stem holding the leaves (pinnate?) seemed to be trying to form a leaf of its own, with a central thickened area and flat leafy part sticking out from it on 2 sides in the plane of the 3 leaves, kind of like the flap of skin a flying squirrel uses to glide. Anyway, it was nasty, and i was wondering what it was. I couldnt find it online or in any of the barnes and noble books i looked in (though most of these were on gardening or landscaping and no one in their right mind would actually plant one of these). Thanks! Jo |
wrote in message ... Hi, I come to petition to the all knowing group for help. My wife and I were out hiking last week in teh east texas piney woods region and stumbled across a very bad plant. I say bad - the plant just looked evil - pliant green woody stems seemingly only there to support the vast number of thorns, which ranged from an inch to 5 inches long. The main mass of the plant was thorn, the stems and thorns looked very similar, smooth and green. The whole tree looked vaguely cloud-shaped, but smaller plants were quite vine like. The largest trunk we saw was about four inches in diameter, plants were all free standing. The leaves were trefoil and smooth edged, obovoid (new word for me), and were mostly shed for winter i suppose. No flowers that we could see. The stem holding the leaves (pinnate?) seemed to be trying to form a leaf of its own, with a central thickened area and flat leafy part sticking out from it on 2 sides in the plane of the 3 leaves, kind of like the flap of skin a flying squirrel uses to glide. Anyway, it was nasty, and i was wondering what it was. I couldnt find it online or in any of the barnes and noble books i looked in (though most of these were on gardening or landscaping and no one in their right mind would actually plant one of these). Thanks! Jo Have you seen that movie "The Blob?" Run.......! |
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:25:54 GMT, Sean Houtman
wrote: wrote in : Hi, I come to petition to the all knowing group for help. "All knowing"? This ain't alt.fan.cecil-adams here, but we can help you with plant questions. My wife and I were out hiking last week in teh east texas piney woods region and stumbled across a very bad plant. I say bad - the plant just looked evil - pliant green woody stems seemingly only there to support the vast number of thorns, which ranged from an inch to 5 inches long. The main mass of the plant was thorn, the stems and thorns looked very similar, smooth and green. The whole tree looked vaguely cloud-shaped, but smaller plants were quite vine like. The largest trunk we saw was about four inches in diameter, plants were all free standing. The leaves were trefoil and smooth edged, obovoid (new word for me), and were mostly shed for winter i suppose. No flowers that we could see. The stem holding the leaves (pinnate?) seemed to be trying to form a leaf of its own, with a central thickened area and flat leafy part sticking out from it on 2 sides in the plane of the 3 leaves, kind of like the flap of skin a flying squirrel uses to glide. Anyway, it was nasty, and i was wondering what it was. I couldnt find it online or in any of the barnes and noble books i looked in (though most of these were on gardening or landscaping and no one in their right mind would actually plant one of these). Thanks! Oh, a photo would be nice, but I suppose I will have to try based on description. Erythrina herbacea (eastern coral bean) is prickly, trefoiled, grows in that area, and doesn't flower in January. Pressed specimen, the flowers have faded from red. http://sidsite.nybg.org/herbim/1520/...0007914big.jpg Photo of the plant. http://www.sbs.utexas.edu/mbierner/b.../fab/erythrina _herbacea.htm Poncirus trifoliata (trifoliate orange) is spiny, trefoiled, grows in that area as an introduction, and doesn't flower in January. Photo of the plant http://www.wegrowit.com/adams_images...ifoliata01.jpg A photo of the leaf with the wings you describe. http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/trees/potr.html Flowers and spines. http://members.lycos.nl/DKG/fruittee..._trifoliata_bl oemendoornen.jpg If there were some things that looked like small oranges on or under it, it is probably Poncirus. Sean Wow, thanks - there were no oranges but you sure nailed it - kudos. And I learned from another site that the thing I was trying to describe was a winged rachus. I have no idea how "japanese hardy oranges" would have ended up deep in the piney woods, but thanks for the ident. I looked up more pictures to be sure and here are a few that show its more evil nature :) http://www.manntaylor.com/plantweek6c.html http://www.wegrowit.com/adams_images...ifoliata01.jpg http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrol...trifoliata.htm Jo |
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wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:25:54 GMT, Sean Houtman wrote: wrote in m: Hi, I come to petition to the all knowing group for help. "All knowing"? This ain't alt.fan.cecil-adams here, but we can help you with plant questions. My wife and I were out hiking last week in teh east texas piney woods region and stumbled across a very bad plant. I say bad - the plant just looked evil - pliant green woody stems seemingly only there to support the vast number of thorns, which ranged from an inch to 5 inches long. The main mass of the plant was thorn, the stems and thorns looked very similar, smooth and green. The whole tree looked vaguely cloud-shaped, but smaller plants were quite vine like. The largest trunk we saw was about four inches in diameter, plants were all free standing. The leaves were trefoil and smooth edged, obovoid (new word for me), and were mostly shed for winter i suppose. No flowers that we could see. The stem holding the leaves (pinnate?) seemed to be trying to form a leaf of its own, with a central thickened area and flat leafy part sticking out from it on 2 sides in the plane of the 3 leaves, kind of like the flap of skin a flying squirrel uses to glide. Anyway, it was nasty, and i was wondering what it was. I couldnt find it online or in any of the barnes and noble books i looked in (though most of these were on gardening or landscaping and no one in their right mind would actually plant one of these). Thanks! Oh, a photo would be nice, but I suppose I will have to try based on description. Erythrina herbacea (eastern coral bean) is prickly, trefoiled, grows in that area, and doesn't flower in January. Pressed specimen, the flowers have faded from red. http://sidsite.nybg.org/herbim/1520/...0007914big.jpg Photo of the plant. http://www.sbs.utexas.edu/mbierner/b.../fab/erythrina _herbacea.htm Poncirus trifoliata (trifoliate orange) is spiny, trefoiled, grows in that area as an introduction, and doesn't flower in January. Photo of the plant http://www.wegrowit.com/adams_images...ifoliata01.jpg A photo of the leaf with the wings you describe. http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/trees/potr.html Flowers and spines. http://members.lycos.nl/DKG/fruittee..._trifoliata_bl oemendoornen.jpg If there were some things that looked like small oranges on or under it, it is probably Poncirus. Sean Wow, thanks - there were no oranges but you sure nailed it - kudos. And I learned from another site that the thing I was trying to describe was a winged rachus. I have no idea how "japanese hardy oranges" would have ended up deep in the piney woods, but thanks for the ident. I looked up more pictures to be sure and here are a few that show its more evil nature :) Most orange trees in the US are actually grafted onto trifoliate orange root stock. Luther Burbank fooled with these for awhile trying to breed edible oranges, T.O. isn't really edible. There are a number of people as a hobby are trying to crossbreed T.O. with other citrus fruits trying to get an edible hardy, citrus plant. Some people have used it as a hedge plant because of the thorns. -- Cheerful Charlie |
Sounds like trifoliate orange.
no one in their right mind would actually plant one of these Look up Poncirus trifoliata. It is also called bitter orange or hardy orange. There are a number of cultivars, probably with fewer thorns. They are grown as ornamentals, outside in the South, indoors in conservatories in the North. They are also used for bonsai. Their main use is as an understock for citrus trees, to promote cold-hardiness. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense." - Woody Allen |
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