On Fri, 25 May 2007 09:19:24 CST, Hal wrote:

gallons.... I have 1500 and
probably 50 or more goldfish along with 6 full grown koi, 6 last
year's spawn (8" or so) and some koi spawn from this spring that I
haven't been able to count. They are hiding in the 300 gal veggie
filter under the parrot feather.

Wow! That's a lot of fish. I also have 1500g w/5 adult koi and three 8-12",
and 3 that are about 4" and I think I have too many. I think I should have
no more than 8 eventually for good health. Granted water parameters are
great, water is tinged, I assume due to pollen, I can see the bottom. Yet,
having that many fish concerns me, not due to water quality, but crowding.
I have a new youngster in the Q-tank, so I need to sell one of the 12" soon
and catch the small canary out to put in with the new one. My goal is to
upgrade the colors in the lower pond, so more will eventually have to be
sold. This could include some of the new ones I just got depending on how
they color out as they age. DH suggested I might want to use that pond to
grow them up, sell and buy new babies to watch, tempting, but too hard to
get new babies and do the lengthy Q-tank stuff.

I use a mechanical filter as the last stage of my biofilter.

Shouldn't the mechanical filter be first? How does it work being the last
stage, what is catching the big stuff?

I finally won the 1st lily award (local club contest), it opened maybe a
day or two later than the 2 winners before who decided to let the plaque be
handed down. Sounds like a good plan.... unless we end up not getting a
first bloom till July in preceding years. ;-) This is the first year I
haven't had to divide every lily, so I think that's how I managed to win
this time. Gloriosa (bright pink) being my first bloom this year.

Yellow iris have come and gone in the lily pond, still blooming in the koi
pond. Blue and Native Charmer iris blooming now. All iris types need to be
repotted this year. s ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Sat, 26 May 2007 15:12:58 CST, ~ jan wrote:

Wow! That's a lot of fish. I also have 1500g w/5 adult koi and three 8-12",
and 3 that are about 4" and I think I have too many. I think I should have
no more than 8 eventually for good health. Granted water parameters are
great, water is tinged, I assume due to pollen, I can see the bottom. Yet,
having that many fish concerns me, not due to water quality, but crowding.
I have a new youngster in the Q-tank, so I need to sell one of the 12" soon
and catch the small canary out to put in with the new one. My goal is to
upgrade the colors in the lower pond, so more will eventually have to be
sold. This could include some of the new ones I just got depending on how
they color out as they age. DH suggested I might want to use that pond to
grow them up, sell and buy new babies to watch, tempting, but too hard to
get new babies and do the lengthy Q-tank stuff.

Yes, I thought I was approaching the too many and deep trouble stage
too, so immediately after the tour yesterday I removed the lily pots
and netted out goldfish for a while. I didn't get them all and plan
to take out more today. I gather I shall want a little more fish
density than you, since I plan on 15 mature, or growing long fin koi
as a max for my pond.

I use a mechanical filter as the last stage of my biofilter.

Shouldn't the mechanical filter be first? How does it work being the last
stage, what is catching the big stuff?

Big stuff comes out at the first barrel that has a baffle to produce a
bit of a circular motion allowing the heavier particles to settle out.
The bio structures are pretty free flowing.

I finally won the 1st lily award (local club contest), it opened maybe a
day or two later than the 2 winners before who decided to let the plaque be
handed down. Sounds like a good plan.... unless we end up not getting a
first bloom till July in preceding years. ;-) This is the first year I
haven't had to divide every lily, so I think that's how I managed to win
this time. Gloriosa (bright pink) being my first bloom this year.

Congratulations! I had a new experience this year too. My koi
decided to eat and destroy my lilies. I bought a new yellow this year
and haven't seen one open yet. I tossed several blossoms that
floated my way, still unopened. It wasn't all bad, I'm learning the
value of frozen garden peas. I tried them a couple years ago and the
fish weren't interested for some reason. They are this year, and
expend more energy eating peas than their regular Mazuri diet.

Yellow iris have come and gone in the lily pond, still blooming in the koi
pond. Blue and Native Charmer iris blooming now. All iris types need to be
repotted this year.

My yellow iris aren't potted, just sitting on cinder blocks for water
depth and blocked in by bricks to keep them from falling over. I
think they seem to be a good nutrient absorbing plant for a pond.

Regards,

Hal

On Sun, 27 May 2007 09:03:38 CST, Hal wrote:

I plan on 15 mature, or growing long fin koi
as a max for my pond.

My favorites also, all of mine are now butterfly, and I saw the most
gorgeous one I'd like in my collection in Yakima. Until I see one like that
for sale, I won't be buying any more. The little one I have in Q is a
kajaku (spelling?) very nice.

Congratulations! I had a new experience this year too. My koi
decided to eat and destroy my lilies.

So far my koi have continued to be very good. Though I only have 2 lilies
in the upper pond. The lower pond ends up being mostly T.cannas I've
conditioned to water. But that's why I put in the lily pond, so could have
more lilies that were not obstructing the view of the fish. ;-) Also why
the lower pond needs more variety of fish colors.

It wasn't all bad, I'm learning the value of frozen garden peas.

This could be why the lilies were getting eaten, they needed more greens.

I don't really want to get into the food controversy.... but I'm not a fan
of Mazuri, so I'll just leave it at that. ;-)

My yellow iris aren't potted, just sitting on cinder blocks for water
depth and blocked in by bricks to keep them from falling over. I
think they seem to be a good nutrient absorbing plant for a pond.
Hal

Absolutely!

Because they take up so much space that I'd rather use for my cannas, I now
rotate my plants. My DH gave me these big holeless pots (3) one was suppose
to drill a hole. I decided instead of dirt, fill with water and water
plants. Everyone likes those spiky plants in the middle of these type pots
right? So why not spiky iris? I put the iris in the pots when the cannas
are ready to go in the pond. I have small floating islands I planted this
year with creeping jenny & impatiens to nestle in amongst the iris.

The iris give me great plant filtration in the pond in the fall and spring
before the cannas go out. :-) And then look great by the front door. I
still put them in baskets, for containment and easy removal, but I no
longer use dirt, just rocks. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Sun, 27 May 2007 15:06:07 CST, ~ jan wrote:

My favorites also, all of mine are now butterfly, and I saw the most
gorgeous one I'd like in my collection in Yakima. Until I see one like that
for sale, I won't be buying any more. The little one I have in Q is a
kajaku (spelling?) very nice.

What color is that in English?
I have a different fish count today. A couple visitors helped me net
out the goldfish Sunday and took them home. Sonny also picked up his
two short fins that had been boarding here since his pond cracked last
year. We were expecting a couple months, maybe, but health and
circumstance extended their stay until the pond was really full. Today
I have 4 adult 5 yearlings (8 to 12") and shredded lilies that I hope
will recover. Unfortunately I still have at least 5 goldfish, that
are black very fast and difficult to see on a black liner. I gave up
on catching all of them rather than drain.

So far my koi have continued to be very good. Though I only have 2 lilies
in the upper pond. The lower pond ends up being mostly T.cannas I've
conditioned to water. But that's why I put in the lily pond, so could have
more lilies that were not obstructing the view of the fish. ;-) Also why
the lower pond needs more variety of fish colors.

I was hoping for shade from the lilies and the fish seem to swim
around in the open water, so I never thought of them as blocking the
view.

This could be why the lilies were getting eaten, they needed more greens.

Probably, they are still growing, but there were a lot of them and I
wouldn't be surprised that they didn't get everything they need in
their diet.

I don't really want to get into the food controversy.... but I'm not a fan
of Mazuri, so I'll just leave it at that. ;-)

Thanks for that. I buy what is available at a reasonable price and
hope for the best for the fish. I couldn't argue with you about what
would be the very best, but life isn't perfect.

Because they take up so much space that I'd rather use for my cannas, I now
rotate my plants. My DH gave me these big holeless pots (3) one was suppose
to drill a hole. I decided instead of dirt, fill with water and water
plants. Everyone likes those spiky plants in the middle of these type pots
right? So why not spiky iris? I put the iris in the pots when the cannas
are ready to go in the pond. I have small floating islands I planted this
year with creeping jenny & impatiens to nestle in amongst the iris.

You have talent for making things look good.
I like cannas and had them for a couple years, they begin to grow at
40F and are pretty tough. I did have a bit of a problem with the
Brazilian Skipper larvae (leaf roller) that kept them looking nasty,
plus the wind blew them over several times and a second year bunch of
cannas is a bit heavy to handle so I gave them up for shorter plants,
mostly floaters.

The iris give me great plant filtration in the pond in the fall and spring
before the cannas go out. :-) And then look great by the front door. I
still put them in baskets, for containment and easy removal, but I no
longer use dirt, just rocks. ~ jan

That's interesting. I just got Louisiana iris last year and didn't
notice they grew before cannas, not much does here except parrot
feather, but I will be watching next spring and they do multiply well.
Have you ever tried them in shade? I have a vacant 160 gallon pond
under the gazebo now that needs something.

I'm glad the rocks work for you. It seems every time I try stones it
sets up a small spot for collecting debris and gets nasty. Bricks
seem to work better for me, after I find a way to tie/attach them to
the plants.

Regards,

Hal

On Mon, 28 May 2007 09:11:35 CST, Hal wrote:

The little one I have in Q is a
kajaku (spelling?) very nice.

What color is that in English?

Hard to explain: http://www.hoshikoi.com/sale1/koi12.jpg
Course mine isn't worth the $2500 asking price of this one. Spelling is
Kujaku. Mine has yellow points instead of orange, and currently not as
prominent, hopefully those will come out more as it grows.

I have 4 adult 5 yearlings (8 to 12") and shredded lilies that I hope
will recover. Unfortunately I still have at least 5 goldfish, that
are black very fast and difficult to see on a black liner. I gave up
on catching all of them rather than drain.

Sounds like better numbers. Hal, you'll have to be this year's lecturer on
"Why you don't add or start with goldfish when you really want koi" pond.
;-) This is also why I'm sticking to fantails in the lily pond, so much
easier to catch.... even if the babies revert to a single tail, that egg
shaped body slows them down. I love wakins & shubunkins, so far I've
reminded myself of the catch-ability, and not purchased.

I was hoping for shade from the lilies and the fish seem to swim
around in the open water, so I never thought of them as blocking the
view.

If you get them too thick, like I had them. ;-)

You have talent for making things look good.

Thank you. I think it is my Asperger gene coming out in me, obsessive
compulsive about working on my pond plants. ;-)

I like cannas... the wind blew them over several times

Oh yes, I have this problem at times. I find bungee cords work very well.
Hook it, or 2, into the basket and under the rocks on the side. Also place
the tallest cannas so they fall against the side, not in the pond. If I'm
aware of windy weather I'll actually go lay them down so they go where I
want them too.

There are dwarf varieties that don't get as tall, I have 2 of those. One
sent to me years ago by Rod Farlee who last posted to RP in summer of 2002.
:-( I also have the Bengal Tiger he sent me going strong. Now that can be
get to be a HUGE plant by July.

That's interesting. I just got Louisiana iris last year and didn't
notice they grew before cannas, not much does here except parrot
feather, but I will be watching next spring and they do multiply well.
Have you ever tried them in shade? I have a vacant 160 gallon pond
under the gazebo now that needs something.

Never tried them in heavy shade.

I'm glad the rocks work for you. It seems every time I try stones it
sets up a small spot for collecting debris and gets nasty. Bricks
seem to work better for me, after I find a way to tie/attach them to
the plants.

I use big rocks, and then the plants are moved from one place to another
often enough, I guess, that not much collects. I do rinse the roots/baskets
between venues. :-) ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Mon, 28 May 2007 13:46:51 CST, ~ jan wrote:

Hard to explain: http://www.hoshikoi.com/sale1/koi12.jpg
Course mine isn't worth the $2500 asking price of this one. Spelling is
Kujaku. Mine has yellow points instead of orange, and currently not as
prominent, hopefully those will come out more as it grows.

That is a beauty!
I have 4 adult 5 yearlings (8 to 12") and shredded lilies that I hope
will recover. Unfortunately I still have at least 5 goldfish, that
are black very fast and difficult to see on a black liner. I gave up
on catching all of them rather than drain.

Sounds like better numbers. Hal, you'll have to be this year's lecturer on
"Why you don't add or start with goldfish when you really want koi" pond.
;-) This is also why I'm sticking to fantails in the lily pond, so much
easier to catch.... even if the babies revert to a single tail, that egg
shaped body slows them down. I love wakins & shubunkins, so far I've
reminded myself of the catch-ability, and not purchased.

My wife insisted I keep some of the red and whites, so they now live
in what was a hot tub converted to a plant pond and now the home of
goldfish, with a bucket filter and foam aerating nozzle.

I was hoping for shade from the lilies and the fish seem to swim
around in the open water, so I never thought of them as blocking the
view.

If you get them too thick, like I had them. ;-)

I can understand that, mine were on the sides and most years didn't
cover the center.

I like cannas... the wind blew them over several times

Oh yes, I have this problem at times. I find bungee cords work very well.
Hook it, or 2, into the basket and under the rocks on the side. Also place
the tallest cannas so they fall against the side, not in the pond. If I'm
aware of windy weather I'll actually go lay them down so they go where I
want them too.

That didn't occur to me. There are no hooks inside the liner and I
didn't know how to compensate for the depth, except to use a milk
crate under them, actually I used a milk crate for the pot and set the
pot on an empty milk crate.

There are dwarf varieties that don't get as tall, I have 2 of those. One
sent to me years ago by Rod Farlee who last posted to RP in summer of 2002.
:-( I also have the Bengal Tiger he sent me going strong. Now that can be
get to be a HUGE plant by July.

The one's I had were supposed to be a dwarf variety, but they grew to
6' in a flower bed and over 4' in the pond. I will probably try them
again someday. I keep an eye on the ponds of a friend who uses them
exclusively in one pond and rush in another. Plants are held in place
with stones in both ponds.

I'll probably try a couple iris in the shade along with parrot
feather. My wife picked up a small bloody dock, because she liked the
color, but it isn't doing well under the shade, so I can swap places
with a few iris and see what happens.

Regards,

Hal

"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
ups.com...
Sounds like your pond iswaking well. Where are you located?

Jim

If you are asking me, Kentucky. We've had a lot of warm weather this
spring.

George