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Aquarium chemistry
I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. Waited a week and bought a
goldfish. After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. The fish died that night. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. Could not find a group where this would be on-topic, but it is related. |
Aquarium chemistry
"Stumpy" wrote in message ... I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. Waited a week and bought a goldfish. After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. The fish died that night. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. Could not find a group where this would be on-topic, but it is related. ====================================== I wish I had the time to type you a small booklet on cycling and goldfish care. You can Google "aquarium+cycling" and "goldfish+care" and get a lot more information than you need or that anyone can type here for you in a few minutes. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
Aquarium chemistry
Stumpy wrote:
I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. Waited a week and bought a goldfish. After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. The fish died that night. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. Could not find a group where this would be on-topic, but it is related. Your tank won't continue cycling if there is nothing in there to produce waste. You could possibly continue cycling the tank without fish using a procedure known as "fishless cycling" - this is where you add small amounts of ammonia to the tank and continue testing as if there are fish in there - once you reach zero nitrites and ammonia your tank will be cycled - never tried it myself but there are a lot of people who swear by this technique as it doesn't involve any stress to fish. A good place to ask any of your questions is:- http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...m?lnk=li&hl=en HTH Gill |
Aquarium chemistry
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:47:26 CST, "Stumpy"
wrote: Let me say right up front that you are welcome and on topic here when talking about fish and fish health. Most of us have fish and ponds of different sizes and different filtering systems and we sometimes have different ideas about keeping fish, so hang around, we are mostly friendly. :) I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. Waited a week and bought a goldfish. I use city water treated with chlorine, not chloramines, and I used to fill my aquarium 10 gal with city water put in a chlorine remover and replace fish immediately. I could set aside 10 gallons of city water and leave it sit at room temperature overnight and use it without chlorine remover without ill effects to goldfish. After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. The fish died that night. Let's assume the clerk was right and let me say, I'm sorry you lost your fish. To prevent this happening in the future, may I suggest you get your own aquarium test kit. A good one can be purchased where I am for between $20 and $30. It includes pH, GH and Ammonia tests. Mine also includes Nitrite and Nitrate tests, but I've never received a positive with either of these in my pond, so I tend to ignore them. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. I think it is difficult to answer your question without knowing the tank. Mine was an under gravel filter (Some time ago.) and needed frequent cleaning compared to some of today's aquarium filtering systems. I had to learn to change water more frequently than most aquarist do these days and still am not in favor of such long waiting periods without fish. My opinion is to clean the tank and filters remove anything that removes ammonia. (These items, once saturated release ammonia back into the water.) Use a chlorine remover adjust the temperature and replace fish immediately. Use my test kit weekly or daily when problems occur, and rely on water changes to help me regulate the balance of the water. (I would use chlorine remover in the new water if I changed more than 20% of the water.) I would also suggest goldfish feeders,(cheap) until you feel more comfortable with managing the water. I trust others here will offer their thoughts. -- Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8 http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb |
Aquarium chemistry
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:57:17 CST, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
I wish I had the time to type you a small booklet on cycling and goldfish care. You can Google "aquarium+cycling" and "goldfish+care" and get a lot more information than you need or that anyone can type here for you in a few minutes. I've been struggling with how to comment to this. I think it was good advice to point out Google and what terms to use, but perhaps if one doesn't have the time, it would be better not to dismiss the OP by saying so? Also the assumption "that anyone can type here for you" is pretty big. At various times many of us have LOTS of time, especially during these winter months. ;-) To the OP, please come back when you get going again. There are far simpler solutions to cycling a tank and sick fish, especially goldfish, that we can help you with. Hal mentioned buying your own test kits. And I would recommend having salt, baking soda and ammonia binder on hand. Also, when purchasing an ammonia test kit, get the salicylate test kind. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
Aquarium chemistry
"~ jan" wrote in message ... I've been struggling with how to comment to this. I think it was good advice to point out Google and what terms to use, but perhaps if one doesn't have the time, it would be better not to dismiss the OP by saying so? Also the assumption "that anyone can type here for you" is pretty big. At various times many of us have LOTS of time, especially during these winter months. ;-) To the OP, please come back when you get going again. There are far simpler solutions to cycling a tank and sick fish, especially goldfish, that we can help you with. Hal mentioned buying your own test kits. And I would recommend having salt, baking soda and ammonia binder on hand. Also, when purchasing an ammonia test kit, get the salicylate test kind. ~ jan ==================== Sorry about that. I wasn't thinking. It was a bit off topic for the group and a newbie needs sooooooo much information. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
Aquarium chemistry
On Jan 18, 11:47*am, "Stumpy" wrote:
I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. *Waited a week and bought a goldfish. *After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. *Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. *Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. *The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that *it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. *The fish died that night. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? *My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. Could not find a group where this would be on-topic, but it is related. You have a small aquarium with no fish and ammonia in the water. In regards to your question, yes, the nitrifying bacteria which will take the tank through its cycle will continue to develop if there is no fish in the aquarium. These bacteria establish themselves in the filter's sponge, so don't damage them by hard washing or replacement. There are some other things to be aware of, but as was already mentioned here, it's a big subject. This still leaves a lot of unanswered questions, such as, is my aquarium big enough or even suitable for ... and what type of goldfish (fancy typically require warmer water, comets do better in longer tanks etc etc). There are Goldfish FAQ if your heart is set on a Goldfish. http://fish.turquoisewave.com/index....26&Itemi d=37 And there is aquarium-specific advice available at the Freshwater Aquarium http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...quarium/topics which can include many types of fish which may or may not be more applicable to your setup. ps: to rpm, sorry to pinch a poster, I was just wandering by and thought I could help ;~) cheers NetMax |
Aquarium chemistry
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:44:30 CST, NetMax wrote:
And there is aquarium-specific advice available at the Freshwater Aquarium http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...quarium/topics which can include many types of fish which may or may not be more applicable to your setup. ps: to rpm, sorry to pinch a poster, I was just wandering by and thought I could help ;~) cheers NetMax As long as the OP gets help, who cares where? ;-) Just be sure and send any ponders over to us. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
Aquarium chemistry
You have a small aquarium with no fish and ammonia in the water. In regards to your question, yes, the nitrifying bacteria which will take the tank through its cycle will continue to develop if there is no fish in the aquarium. These bacteria establish themselves in the filter's sponge, so don't damage them by hard washing or replacement. There are some other things to be aware of, but as was already mentioned here, it's a big subject. This is good news. I'll assume that if I wait the ~40 days I saw on the graph, then is a good time to try again. This still leaves a lot of unanswered questions, such as, is my aquarium big enough or even suitable for ... and what type of goldfish (fancy typically require warmer water, comets do better in longer tanks etc etc). There are Goldfish FAQ if your heart is set on a Goldfish. http://fish.turquoisewave.com/index....26&Itemi d=37 And there is aquarium-specific advice available at the Freshwater Aquarium http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...quarium/topics which can include many types of fish which may or may not be more applicable to your setup. ps: to rpm, sorry to pinch a poster, I was just wandering by and thought I could help ;~) cheers NetMax Thanks for the links. I'll explore Google groups. The goldfish was my wife's idea - it doesn't have to be perfect. Just want to avoid future health problems and trauma/drama in the toilet bowl. |
Aquarium chemistry
Your tank won't continue cycling if there is nothing in there to produce waste. You could possibly continue cycling the tank without fish using a procedure known as "fishless cycling" - this is where you add small amounts of ammonia to the tank and continue testing as if there are fish in there - once you reach zero nitrites and ammonia your tank will be cycled - never tried it myself but there are a lot of people who swear by this technique as it doesn't involve any stress to fish. A good place to ask any of your questions is:- http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...m?lnk=li&hl=en HTH Gill Thanks much. Don't want to add more chemicals if I don't have to. The only ammonia I have is 10% ammonium hydroxide "janitorial strength" that I use to clean out plugged ink-jet printer heads. I'll follow up on your link, but have never used Google groups. |
Aquarium chemistry
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:44:30 CST, NetMax
wrote: ps: to rpm, sorry to pinch a poster, I was just wandering by and thought I could help ;~) Positive input is always welcome. -- Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8 http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb |
Aquarium chemistry
On Jan 19, 10:25*am, Gill Passman
wrote: Stumpy wrote: I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. *Waited a week and bought a goldfish. *After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. *Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. *Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. *The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that *it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. *The fish died that night. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? *My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. Could not find a group where this would be on-topic, but it is related. Your tank won't continue cycling if there is nothing in there to produce waste. You could possibly continue cycling the tank without fish using a procedure known as "fishless cycling" - this is where you add small amounts of ammonia to the tank and continue testing as if there are fish in there - once you reach zero nitrites and ammonia your tank will be cycled - never tried it myself but there are a lot of people who swear by this technique as it doesn't involve any stress to fish. A good place to ask any of your questions is:- http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...m?lnk=li&hl=en HTH Gill- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hi Gill, the most recent articles on fishless cycling describe it exactly as you're saying; replenishing the ammonia periodically (daily). I think this does result in a larger bacterial culture, but note that there is also a school of thought that levels of ammonia which are too high can inhibit the bacteria which complete the process taking the nitrite to nitrate (ref: never-ending cycle). The original method which was the only one I've had personal experience with, was using a single dose of ammonia to about 5ppm (though the concentration doesn't seem to be very critical) and then waiting for the process to complete itself. There is some concern that in the resulting interval where there is no ammonia (only nitrite), that some bacteria might die off, which is why the more refined method described above was developed (I think by the same fellow who documented the first method on the net). Ultimately, both systems work, though I lean towards the simpler 2nd method when trying to coach someone over the internet who may not have the same inclination towards daily water testing. cheers NetMax |
Aquarium chemistry
Hi Gill, the most recent articles on fishless cycling describe it exactly as you're saying; replenishing the ammonia periodically (daily). I think this does result in a larger bacterial culture, but note that there is also a school of thought that levels of ammonia which are too high can inhibit the bacteria which complete the process taking the nitrite to nitrate (ref: never-ending cycle). The original method which was the only one I've had personal experience with, was using a single dose of ammonia to about 5ppm (though the concentration doesn't seem to be very critical) and then waiting for the process to complete itself. There is some concern that in the resulting interval where there is no ammonia (only nitrite), that some bacteria might die off, which is why the more refined method described above was developed (I think by the same fellow who documented the first method on the net). Ultimately, both systems work, though I lean towards the simpler 2nd method when trying to coach someone over the internet who may not have the same inclination towards daily water testing. cheers NetMax If I wanted to add 5ppm ammonia. How many mls, oz, or maybe drops would I add of 10% ammonium hydroxide to a 5 gallon tank? |
Aquarium chemistry
Hi U2..
NetMax wrote: On Jan 19, 10:25*am, Gill Passman wrote: @ Gill: Your tank won't continue cycling if there is nothing in there to produce waste. ACK.. You could possibly continue cycling the tank without fish using a procedure known as "fishless cycling" - this is where you add small amounts of ammonia to the tank and continue testing as if there are fish in there - once you reach zero nitrites and ammonia your tank will be cycled Yes and no..! Fishless cycling is (of course!) fishless cycling but it's not automatically a cycling with ammonia.. - never tried it myself but there are a lot of people who swear by this technique as it doesn't involve any stress to fish. Yes and no.. A good place to ask any of your questions is:- http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...m?lnk=li&hl=en ACK.. @ NM: Hi Gill, the most recent articles on fishless cycling describe it exactly as you're saying; replenishing the ammonia periodically (daily). I think this does result in a larger bacterial culture, Well this kind of method might support bacterial cultures that prefer _anorganic_ N ressources while denitrifying bacteria generally seem to prefer organic waste.. but note that there is also a school of thought that levels of ammonia which are too high can inhibit the bacteria which complete the process taking the nitrite to nitrate (ref: never-ending cycle). Hmm.., don't think so - any links available..? -- cu Marco |
Aquarium chemistry
"Stumpy" wrote in message ... If I wanted to add 5ppm ammonia. How many mls, oz, or maybe drops would I add of 10% ammonium hydroxide to a 5 gallon tank? ================ Hi Stumpy, if you aquarium is only 5 gallons it is much too small for a goldfish. A small healthy well fed young goldfish will outgrow it in well under a year. You would be much better off with a betta or a few small tetras. Healthy GF can reach a foot in length. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
Aquarium chemistry
If I wanted to add 5ppm ammonia. How many mls, oz, or maybe drops would
I add of 10% ammonium hydroxide to a 5 gallon tank? ================ Hi Stumpy, if you aquarium is only 5 gallons it is much too small for a goldfish. A small healthy well fed young goldfish will outgrow it in well under a year. You would be much better off with a betta or a few small tetras. Healthy GF can reach a foot in length. -- Point taken, this is a fluid situation. Wife wanted a Jack Dempsey, I insisted we start with a goldfish to condition the tank. She ended up liking the goldfish as the end in itself. Maybe there is a dwarf goldfish? |
Aquarium chemistry
Stumpy wrote:
If I wanted to add 5ppm ammonia. How many mls, oz, or maybe drops would I add of 10% ammonium hydroxide to a 5 gallon tank? Sorry, I dont know the answer as I've never tried this myself although have known/read about many people who have done so. This article gives you some background reading as to how to do it:- http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.u...article_id=113 I think the articles that NetMax is referring to were by a Dr Chris Cow - might be possible to find them using google. Other options open to you might be using a product such as BioSpira or Bactinettes - again I've not tried them myself but have heard good reports. Or if you know anyone with a fish tank "borrow" some mature filter medium from them to speed up the cycle in your tank. How big is your tank? The above seems to suggest it is 5 gall. If this is the case then you should seriously reconsider using it to house a goldfish. Contrary to popular myths, goldfish need a much larger home to live and grow to their full potential. They are also "messy" fish so in a tank that small you will forever be fighting water chemistry issues. A 5 gall tank, with an added heater, can make a very attractive home for smaller tropicals - neon tetras, cherry barbs, a betta spring instantly to mind - mainly as I have kept all 3 in tanks of this size. HTH Gill |
Aquarium chemistry
On Jan 23, 6:33*pm, Marco Schwarz wrote:
Hi U2.. NetMax wrote: On Jan 19, 10:25*am, Gill Passman wrote: @ Gill: Your tank won't continue cycling if there is nothing in there to produce waste. ACK.. You could possibly continue cycling the tank without fish using a procedure known as "fishless cycling" - this is where you add small amounts of ammonia to the tank and continue testing as if there are fish in there - once you reach zero nitrites and ammonia your tank will be cycled Yes and no..! Fishless cycling is (of course!) fishless cycling but it's not automatically a cycling with ammonia.. - never tried it myself but there are a lot of people who swear by this technique as it doesn't involve any stress to fish. Yes and no.. A good place to ask any of your questions is:- http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...m?lnk=li&hl=en ACK.. @ NM: Hi Gill, the most recent articles on fishless cycling describe it exactly as you're saying; replenishing the ammonia periodically (daily). *I think this does result in a larger bacterial culture, Well this kind of method might support bacterial cultures that prefer _anorganic_ *N ressources while denitrifying bacteria generally seem to prefer organic waste.. but note that there is also a school of thought that levels of ammonia which are too high can inhibit the bacteria which complete the process taking the nitrite to nitrate (ref: never-ending cycle). Hmm.., don't think so - any links available..? -- cu Marco Hi Marco, In regards to the different bacteria, agreed, however my understanding is that unlike the aerobic nitrifying bacteria like nitrospira, nitrobacter and nitrosomonas which reproduce every 16-18 hours, most other bacteria follow a more typical reproduction cycle of about 20 minutes, so their establishment is less of a concern in a new aquarium. In regards to growth inhibition of specific bacteria under high ammonia levels (producing a never-ending nitrite spike), I can't say that I'm an advocate of that idea, but the discusssions have come up in RAFM, AA and now TFA on the topic. I think Frank was more vocal pulling out references (if you wanted to search on the subject by author), and like myself, thinking that there's really nothing wrong with the old method of using a single ammonia load, provided it's not taken to an extreme. If you search on fishless cycling, you come up with many references to the original and revised recipe, but it's hard to separate science from anecdotes, so I'll only point you to one site which I've always found very credible. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/doc...fishless.shtml In regards to *what* ammonia, Badman's site has a 3rd recipe developed with a chemist which states: snip Use ammonium chloride, not ammonium hydroxide. Ammonia hydroxide will bring your pH too low and cause you to lose alkalinity and likewise your bacteria population. NH4Cl is available from pretty much every chemical company at a reasonable price.snip If you can't find ammonium chloride, then this is something to watch for as low pH will cause bacteria to go dormant. The rest of the article is here. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html Badmantropicalfish doesn't have the same scientific depth as skepticalaquarist (imo), but has been around long enough to be a good read. hth NetMax |
Aquarium chemistry
In regards to growth inhibition of specific bacteria under high ammonia levels (producing a never-ending nitrite spike), I can't say that I'm an advocate of that idea, but the discusssions have come up in RAFM, AA and now TFA on the topic. I think Frank was more vocal pulling out references (if you wanted to search on the subject by author), and like myself, thinking that there's really nothing wrong with the old method of using a single ammonia load, provided it's not taken to an extreme. If you search on fishless cycling, you come up with many references to the original and revised recipe, but it's hard to separate science from anecdotes, so I'll only point you to one site which I've always found very credible. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/doc...fishless.shtml I like the suggestion about "natural ammonia". Price is right. Maybe I'll pull out a stepstool and a tablespoon after the rest of the household is asleep. |
Aquarium chemistry
"Stumpy" wrote in message ... If I wanted to add 5ppm ammonia. How many mls, oz, or maybe drops would I add of 10% ammonium hydroxide to a 5 gallon tank? ================ Hi Stumpy, if you aquarium is only 5 gallons it is much too small for a goldfish. A small healthy well fed young goldfish will outgrow it in well under a year. You would be much better off with a betta or a few small tetras. Healthy GF can reach a foot in length. -- Point taken, this is a fluid situation. Wife wanted a Jack Dempsey, I insisted we start with a goldfish to condition the tank. She ended up liking the goldfish as the end in itself. Maybe there is a dwarf goldfish? ============================ Nope! If you starve it, it will take longer to outgrow the tank (if it lives) but will be ugly stunted and eventually deformed. It will die young. It's also cruel. If she has her heart set on a GF you really need at least a 20g tank, a 30g Long would be even better. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
Aquarium chemistry
On Jan 24, 9:04*pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
"Stumpy" wrote in message ... If I wanted to add 5ppm ammonia. *How many mls, oz, or maybe drops would I add of 10% ammonium hydroxide to a 5 gallon tank? ================ Hi Stumpy, if you aquarium is only 5 gallons it is much too small for a goldfish. A small healthy well fed young goldfish will outgrow it in well under a year. You would be much better off with a betta or a few small tetras. Healthy GF can reach a foot in length. -- Point taken, *this is a fluid situation. *Wife wanted a Jack Dempsey, *I insisted we start with a goldfish to condition the tank. *She ended up liking the goldfish as the end in itself. Maybe there is a dwarf goldfish? ============================ Nope! If you starve it, it will take longer to outgrow the tank (if it lives) but will be ugly stunted and eventually deformed. It will die young. It's also cruel. If she has her heart set on a GF you really need at least a 20g tank, a 30g Long would be even better. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. *Middle TN USA ~~~~ *}((((* *~~~ * }{{{{(ö hmm, did I read a 5 gallon tank? Take a look at White Cloud minnows. I think I seen a gold version of the WCM as well. Harlequin rasboras are pretty and will tolerate a cooler tank (heating a 5g is an entirely different story). Some non-fish choices for a 5g are an Apple snail and an African Dwarf frog. Back to fish, a single Betta, or similarly sized Anabantidae (ie: Paradisefish) would be ok in a 5g. I personally don't operate small tanks much, as I find that they can be more work than larger tanks (in terms of stability, filtering, heating etc). When I think 5g, I think of my water change pail ;~) but many talented folks operate gorgeous nano tanks (not with Goldfish though!). As for priming the cycle naturally with a step stool, I'm sure you're not the first or last to do this. Many years ago, people would drop a shrimp in (from your grocery store's frozen food selection), and the decay would release enough ammonia to kick start the process, so you see, there are many ways to approach this. NetMax |
Aquarium chemistry
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:19:11 CST, "Stumpy" wrote:
Maybe there is a dwarf goldfish? At the risk of getting a negative reaction, I reply..... ;-) If you know someone with baby fantail goldfish, you could put 2 tiny ones in a 5 gallon. Plant the tank with live plants, Then feed only 1 flake of food each/day, with a partial water change only twice/month. I've fool around doing this in the past, as I've had tons of baby fantails at times. I did mine in a 2 gallon tank. They stayed small, but eventually I didn't have time for my little tank experiments, put them in regular size tanks and they grew normal. Never saw deformities or stunting... other than I slowed them down at the beginning. In fact, I have found, if I grow my goldfish slow via food control (not water quality or space) they keep their color much better than a fish that is fed a lot and allowed to grow quickly. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
Aquarium chemistry
~ jan wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:19:11 CST, "Stumpy" wrote: Maybe there is a dwarf goldfish? At the risk of getting a negative reaction, I reply..... ;-) I think it would be true to say that all of us have at sometime done this.....knowing what I know now I would only suggest that those who know what they are doing and have other options available attempt it ;-) If you know someone with baby fantail goldfish, you could put 2 tiny ones in a 5 gallon. Plant the tank with live plants, Then feed only 1 flake of food each/day, with a partial water change only twice/month. I would suggest twice weekly rather than monthly to maintain the water quality......I do this on my small 5 gall tropical tanks that are planted with a far lower bio-load than goldfish would give....I'm sure the only reason my goldfish lived in the small tanks we had in the 60s/70s only survived as long as they did because of the water changes... I've fool around doing this in the past, as I've had tons of baby fantails at times. I did mine in a 2 gallon tank. They stayed small, but eventually I didn't have time for my little tank experiments, put them in regular size tanks and they grew normal. Never saw deformities or stunting... other than I slowed them down at the beginning. In general, I don't think that goldfish kept in small tanks by the "average" newbie even live long enough to suffer from their growth being stunted......however, I can see with careful husbandary by someone that knows what they are doing this can be a short term option. Indeed, most of the goldfish I kept in tanks in latter years used to go in the old pond once they reached a certain size.....wouldn't work with fancies in my climate but with the common all garden goldfish it wasn't an issue...... In fact, I have found, if I grow my goldfish slow via food control (not water quality or space) they keep their color much better than a fish that is fed a lot and allowed to grow quickly. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us Interesting....and probably has a basis in normal wild fish development.....fry tend to scavange or be eaten themselves.....it is the clever ones that survive and the brightly coloured ones that get a better chance of breeding.......and the clever ones aren't usually the risk takers that pig out at feeding time because of the risk of becoming dinner themselves...... Gill |
Aquarium chemistry
FISHLESS CYCLING OF TANKS
rather than getting the RIGHT kind of ammonia and getting the RIGHT amount in the tank, a pinch of Hikari Gold fish food for a small tank up to a tablespoon in a 75 gallon can be tossed into the tank, the heat set to 82oF and plenty of aeration. In 3 days or so watch the ammonia. If no ammonia is seen add more food. http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/care/care.htm |
Aquarium chemistry
If you know someone with baby fantail goldfish, you could put 2 tiny ones
in a 5 gallon. Plant the tank with live plants, Then feed only 1 flake of food each/day, with a partial water change only twice/month. I would suggest twice weekly rather than monthly to maintain the water quality...... The reason for few water changes is so the build up of hormones slows down the growth cycle. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
Aquarium chemistry
FISHLESS CYCLING OF TANKS
rather than getting the RIGHT kind of ammonia and getting the RIGHT amount in the tank, a pinch of Hikari Gold fish food for a small tank up to a tablespoon in a 75 gallon can be tossed into the tank, the heat set to 82oF and plenty of aeration. In 3 days or so watch the ammonia. If no ammonia is seen add more food. http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/care/care.htm I put in some goldfish pellets, raised the temp and 3 days later they are covered in a white hairy cocoonlike cocoon. Looks like a fungus more than normal decomposition. Is this OK? |
Aquarium chemistry
sure. flake food breaks down better, but what is the ammonia like? when Hikari is
used there is ammonia in the water right away. On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:23:53 CST, "Stumpy" wrote: FISHLESS CYCLING OF TANKS rather than getting the RIGHT kind of ammonia and getting the RIGHT amount in the tank, a pinch of Hikari Gold fish food for a small tank up to a tablespoon in a 75 gallon can be tossed into the tank, the heat set to 82oF and plenty of aeration. In 3 days or so watch the ammonia. If no ammonia is seen add more food. http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/care/care.htm I put in some goldfish pellets, raised the temp and 3 days later they are covered in a white hairy cocoonlike cocoon. Looks like a fungus more than normal decomposition. Is this OK? |
Aquarium chemistry
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:23:53 CST, "Stumpy" wrote:
FISHLESS CYCLING OF TANKS rather than getting the RIGHT kind of ammonia and getting the RIGHT amount in the tank, a pinch of Hikari Gold fish food for a small tank up to a tablespoon in a 75 gallon can be tossed into the tank, the heat set to 82oF and plenty of aeration. In 3 days or so watch the ammonia. If no ammonia is seen add more food. http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/care/care.htm I put in some goldfish pellets, raised the temp and 3 days later they are covered in a white hairy cocoonlike cocoon. Looks like a fungus more than normal decomposition. Is this OK? My guess it is probably a water bound mold (if there is such a thing). I doubt it is harmful. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
Aquarium chemistry
sure. flake food breaks down better, but what is the ammonia like? when
Hikari is used there is ammonia in the water right away. I put in some goldfish pellets, raised the temp and 3 days later they are covered in a white hairy cocoonlike cocoon. Looks like a fungus more than normal decomposition. Is this OK? My test kit does not check ammonia. Nitrites and nitrates have not gone on scale yet. I was just going to wait until I see the nitrite peak and a nitrate surge before getting fish. It should have plenty of ammonia from "natural" source. Test kit also says water is very hard, ~280, KH = 50, pH = 7.3 I added a lump of dead coral to get some calcium carbonate in there. Was getting worried that the malachite green treatment had sterilized the tank. The deceased goldfish's turds are still sitting on top of the gravel. They should be munched up by now. |
In your home aquarium, the fish should be kept in four lemons a similar environment. You need to provide intensive plantations, many large-leafed plants of the aquarium. Planted in a good aquarium, they will show their colors more vivid so you can fully enjoy the glory of this beautiful species.
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Like other normal aquarium, a good filtration system should be provided to keep the water clean and air conditioning. There should be adequate ventilation to provide enough oxygen for fish. Under extreme conditions, the hardness should always be avoided, because the fish will get attention and get sick, because such a condition.
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