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So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Would a shotgun or a 22 be better? It has cleane dme out of my 4 to 6
inch goldies already, and is starting on my koi..........how about a fish baited with a treble hook? |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
You can't. It is illegal to kill or harm herons. You can try netting, motion activated sprinklers, electric shock pet fencing. good luck! |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
I am not going though the mess of netting a heron and disrupting my view of my fish and inconvienince to my pond. I simply asked whats best shotgun or 22 rifle. I will pick up the best choice at Wal Mart this week and take care of these predators once and for all. Laws are meant to be broken. I live in the country anyhow so no one is g9onna see what I do. On 5 Dec 2006 13:19:17 -0800, "kathy" wrote: You can't. It is illegal to kill or harm herons. You can try netting, motion activated sprinklers, electric shock pet fencing. good luck! |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:23:21 -0600, Tristan
wrote: I am not going though the mess of netting a heron and disrupting my view of my fish and inconvienince to my pond. I simply asked whats best shotgun or 22 rifle. I will pick up the best choice at Wal Mart this week and take care of these predators once and for all. Laws are meant to be broken. I live in the country anyhow so no one is g9onna see what I do. A firearm is such a poor choice, especially for you. The mere fact that you have to ask which is better shows you don't know much about either. Guns have a bad enough rep as it is, you don't have to contribute. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
NOw you let me be the judge on that since its my fish, my gun and my money involved. Typical for a rec.ponder is to get off on a totally different tangent than originally asked, and evade the question that was posted. Now just to set the record straight, doyou really think this post would have ever gotten into a moderated group? I doubt it would as there is too many one sided views, even though its still a legitimate question at hand. It just does not fit everyones way of looking at it, nnow doe sit? You all failed the test. plain and simple and its just a sign of whats to come when and if this ever gets to a miderated forum. Its gonna be as one sided as it can possibly be. All questions a re viable questions and its not for mods to determine if it is or not. Who is to say its not legal to shot a heron where I live? Yet ya all are so quick to voive an opinion. So Galen you too fail for mod status but I am sure you will fit in with the rest of these pompous righteous *******s that just chomp at the bit to be moderators. And I do not have any heron problems either......at least none that I need to come to such a lame assed bunch of weak minded clowns to get ideas from. And you better hceck as it is perfectly legal to shoot herons as it depends on if you have a permit and what reason it was issued for. So you never know, I may just be legal to shoot the freaking things......permits are not as hard to get as one may think they are. On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:52:01 -0500, Galen Hekhuis wrote: On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:23:21 -0600, Tristan wrote: I am not going though the mess of netting a heron and disrupting my view of my fish and inconvienince to my pond. I simply asked whats best shotgun or 22 rifle. I will pick up the best choice at Wal Mart this week and take care of these predators once and for all. Laws are meant to be broken. I live in the country anyhow so no one is g9onna see what I do. A firearm is such a poor choice, especially for you. The mere fact that you have to ask which is better shows you don't know much about either. Guns have a bad enough rep as it is, you don't have to contribute. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:10:49 -0600, Tristan
wrote: NOw you let me be the judge on that since its my fish, my gun and my money involved. Typical for a rec.ponder is to get off on a totally different tangent than originally asked, and evade the question that was posted. Now just to set the record straight, doyou really think this post would have ever gotten into a moderated group? I doubt it would as there is too many one sided views, even though its still a legitimate question at hand. It just does not fit everyones way of looking at it, nnow doe sit? You all failed the test. plain and simple and its just a sign of whats to come when and if this ever gets to a miderated forum. Its gonna be as one sided as it can possibly be. All questions a re viable questions and its not for mods to determine if it is or not. Who is to say its not legal to shot a heron where I live? Yet ya all are so quick to voive an opinion. To set the record straight, as you put it, your original post, Kathy's follow up, your follow up to that follow up, my follow up... you get the picture, they all would be "allowed" if I were the moderator. So Galen you too fail for mod status but I am sure you will fit in with the rest of these pompous righteous *******s that just chomp at the bit to be moderators. And I do not have any heron problems either......at least none that I need to come to such a lame assed bunch of weak minded clowns to get ideas from. And you better hceck as it is perfectly legal to shoot herons as it depends on if you have a permit and what reason it was issued for. So you never know, I may just be legal to shoot the freaking things......permits are not as hard to get as one may think they are. Here in Florida you'll get very old waiting for some kind of permit to kill heron, and I'm pretty sure that's the case just about everywhere. I seriously doubt you'd have any luck in declaring them a "nuisance," no matter how many fish you lose. I own several guns, and have licenses to kill just about everything you can here in Florida. I live out in the country too, on enough acreage that I can pretty much do what I want, so I know where you're coming from that way. But I didn't address the legalities of it then, and even legalities aside I think it is a really poor idea. Let's look at why. First of all, you're going to have to be a pretty good shot to use a .22. Not an expert by any means, but still pretty good. But you don't know that, so obviously, you must not be a very good shot, so a shotgun is the thing for you. But starting one off shooting with a shotgun isn't the best idea, and it isn't the ideal gun for a "first gun," so... I think even you can see the problems in giving any kind of advice, plus you don't even hint at range or stuff, so even a guess at a choke is pretty much just a guess. The best advice I could come up with is that you not use any type of firearm, they aren't toys, even if you can buy them at Wal Mart. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Your not paying attention Galen. I own and have quite a few firearms
already. I have no need to buy a weapaon at Wally World. I can nail a ground hog in the eye at 100 yards without a problem with a 22 and a heron is certianly not a hard target. They are however best shot with a 22 cal anyhow as they are more apt to get hit, and then fly away and off the property to die elsewhere, and save the problem of having to SSS the dam thing. You do know what SSS is I presume. Shoot, shovel and shutup. So to me a 22 cal preferably a low velocity target round not a CCI mini mag or high velocity hollow point is whats best so it wounds the bird, but enables it to get gone and away from the area. Odds are it will be dead within 24 hours and if it suffers so what, its pay back for my fish being speared and not killed....As to your claim your still assuming what I can get or do without any validity on your part in even knowing who or where I am and why I can probably or may already have a permit to harvest herons and other birds of prey as such.....I I would stil put moneyon this post ever making it into any group moderated by any of the proposed moderators. I just love stupid folks who spend big bucks just to feed the predators, and think a net is gong to solve it, or a water spraying scarecrow....It takes lead. On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:59:30 -0500, Galen Hekhuis wrote: On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:10:49 -0600, Tristan wrote: NOw you let me be the judge on that since its my fish, my gun and my money involved. Typical for a rec.ponder is to get off on a totally different tangent than originally asked, and evade the question that was posted. Now just to set the record straight, doyou really think this post would have ever gotten into a moderated group? I doubt it would as there is too many one sided views, even though its still a legitimate question at hand. It just does not fit everyones way of looking at it, nnow doe sit? You all failed the test. plain and simple and its just a sign of whats to come when and if this ever gets to a miderated forum. Its gonna be as one sided as it can possibly be. All questions a re viable questions and its not for mods to determine if it is or not. Who is to say its not legal to shot a heron where I live? Yet ya all are so quick to voive an opinion. To set the record straight, as you put it, your original post, Kathy's follow up, your follow up to that follow up, my follow up... you get the picture, they all would be "allowed" if I were the moderator. So Galen you too fail for mod status but I am sure you will fit in with the rest of these pompous righteous *******s that just chomp at the bit to be moderators. And I do not have any heron problems either......at least none that I need to come to such a lame assed bunch of weak minded clowns to get ideas from. And you better hceck as it is perfectly legal to shoot herons as it depends on if you have a permit and what reason it was issued for. So you never know, I may just be legal to shoot the freaking things......permits are not as hard to get as one may think they are. Here in Florida you'll get very old waiting for some kind of permit to kill heron, and I'm pretty sure that's the case just about everywhere. I seriously doubt you'd have any luck in declaring them a "nuisance," no matter how many fish you lose. I own several guns, and have licenses to kill just about everything you can here in Florida. I live out in the country too, on enough acreage that I can pretty much do what I want, so I know where you're coming from that way. But I didn't address the legalities of it then, and even legalities aside I think it is a really poor idea. Let's look at why. First of all, you're going to have to be a pretty good shot to use a .22. Not an expert by any means, but still pretty good. But you don't know that, so obviously, you must not be a very good shot, so a shotgun is the thing for you. But starting one off shooting with a shotgun isn't the best idea, and it isn't the ideal gun for a "first gun," so... I think even you can see the problems in giving any kind of advice, plus you don't even hint at range or stuff, so even a guess at a choke is pretty much just a guess. The best advice I could come up with is that you not use any type of firearm, they aren't toys, even if you can buy them at Wal Mart. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
I thi k you would fit right in as a moderator there Nick, disability and all. On 05 Dec 2006 23:20:08 GMT, wrote: Tristan wrote: [ rant snipped] PLONK!!! |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
I'll see your plonk and rasie you two...... PLONK....PLONK Your turn! On 05 Dec 2006 23:20:08 GMT, wrote: Tristan wrote: [ rant snipped] PLONK!!! |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Tristan wrote:
[ rant snipped] PLONK!!! -- Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ! ~Semper Fi~ |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:06:34 -0600, Tristan
wrote: Your not paying attention Galen. I own and have quite a few firearms already. I have no need to buy a weapaon at Wally World. I can nail a ground hog in the eye at 100 yards without a problem with a 22 and a heron is certianly not a hard target. They are however best shot with a 22 cal anyhow as they are more apt to get hit, and then fly away and off the property to die elsewhere, and save the problem of having to SSS the dam thing. You do know what SSS is I presume. Shoot, shovel and shutup. So to me a 22 cal preferably a low velocity target round not a CCI mini mag or high velocity hollow point is whats best so it wounds the bird, but enables it to get gone and away from the area. But that's not at all what you said, you claimed to not know which was better, a .22 or a shotgun. I concluded that if you didn't even know that, you had no business being around firearms. Odds are it will be dead within 24 hours and if it suffers so what, its pay back for my fish being speared and not killed.... You and I have vastly different values, I see. As to your claim your still assuming what I can get or do without any validity on your part in even knowing who or where I am and why I can probably or may already have a permit to harvest herons and other birds of prey as such..... Knock yourself out then, you obviously don't need any advice, certainly not on this subject. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
Tristan wrote: [ . . . ] Galen, have you looked at to whom you're responding? Why bother? Kf him! -- Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ! ~Semper Fi~ |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On 05 Dec 2006 23:47:06 GMT, wrote: Galen Hekhuis wrote: Tristan wrote: [ . . . ] Galen, have you looked at to whom you're responding? Why bother? Kf him! I tried killfiles and various things for some ten years, and wound up fussing, tuning, and monitoring them so much I decided that for me they were much more trouble than they were worth. [ . . . ] I'll answer anything I have knowledge of, and that isn't a whole lot of things so I have to jump at every chance I get. I have some hot buttons too, and guns is one of them.[] Well. you may no longer wish to have a civil discourse with me, as I am a staunch defender of the 2nd Amendment. I bought my first gun at age 12, have been shooting since I was 7 and own a shotgun, a couple of pistols and several rifles, with enough ammo for each to last beyond my death (I'm 71). One of the main differences between me and the one to whom you responded is that I am a responsible gun owner, I practice regularly and I respect and obey the law. And I don't think I'm God! I had a heron problem about 10 years ago. The buzzard got 2 of my koi and a goldfish! I put up bird net and have had no problem since. -- Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ! ~Semper Fi~ |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Tristan wrote:
Would a shotgun or a 22 be better? It has cleane dme out of my 4 to 6 inch goldies already, and is starting on my koi..........how about a fish baited with a treble hook? The only point that I see of this post is to try and see what may or might not get past any moderators on a moderated rec.ponds...not a legitimate question but a bit of a game..... I believe you have your answer...although I haven't done this in the right order but I'm tired....the question is valid and on-topic.....so why wouldn't it get posted even though the sentiments expressed are designed to be imflammatory ......if it went further down the line then maybe it would get banned....but I'm sure that you are not even slightly serious in the solutions you are proposing....you are playing a game to see what would happen....and that is fine.....you got answers on the unmoderated group....most valid as well....I'm sorry, but I don't see how moderation should impact this post....apart from thinking (sorry) that the post was deliberately made to inflame people.....which afterall is your intention albeit just to test how the moderators would react... Gill PS I have no idea whatsoever how this would get through any moderation process but once the RFD gets published, and we do need to wait for this rather than speculate, we can then argue about the moderation policy...rather than trying to preempt this.... |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
On 06 Dec 2006 00:31:11 GMT, wrote:
Well. you may no longer wish to have a civil discourse with me, as I am a staunch defender of the 2nd Amendment. I bought my first gun at age 12, have been shooting since I was 7 and own a shotgun, a couple of pistols and several rifles, with enough ammo for each to last beyond my death (I'm 71). I don't know why I wouldn't wish to have a civil discourse with you, in sight is a little hat I got by being a Charter Founder of the Second Amendment Task Force. Besides, my brother is a retired Marine mustang, we could talk about him if nothing else. One of the main differences between me and the one to whom you responded is that I am a responsible gun owner, I practice regularly and I respect and obey the law. And I don't think I'm God! I had a heron problem about 10 years ago. The buzzard got 2 of my koi and a goldfish! I put up bird net and have had no problem since. I had an alligator in my back pond last year. Turns out it ate all the turtles and fish back there. A net wouldn't have helped at all, in fact, I don't know what would. Fortunately it just died of natural causes, and I didn't have to figure out how to deal with it. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On 06 Dec 2006 00:31:11 GMT, wrote: Well. you may no longer wish to have a civil discourse with me, as I am a staunch defender of the 2nd Amendment. I bought my first gun at age 12, have been shooting since I was 7 and own a shotgun, a couple of pistols and several rifles, with enough ammo for each to last beyond my death (I'm 71). I don't know why I wouldn't wish to have a civil discourse with you, in sight is a little hat I got by being a Charter Founder of the Second Amendment Task Force. Besides, my brother is a retired Marine mustang, we could talk about him if nothing else. I was an acive duty Marine briefly during the Korean War. I greatly admire mustang officers. Please thank your brother for me. Semper Fi, bro. I owe ya a drink! One of the main differences between me and the one to whom you responded is that I am a responsible gun owner, I practice regularly and I respect and obey the law. And I don't think I'm God! I had a heron problem about 10 years ago. The buzzard got 2 of my koi and a goldfish! I put up bird net and have had no problem since. I had an alligator in my back pond last year. Turns out it ate all the turtles and fish back there. A net wouldn't have helped at all, in fact, I don't know what would. Fortunately it just died of natural causes, and I didn't have to figure out how to deal with it. No alligators out here in So Cal. That's where I would consider shooting it, as they make good eatin', too. Quaranteed recipe on request. ;-) -- Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ! ~Semper Fi~ |
Hypothetical questions during RFD (was: So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi)
On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 00:33:07 +0000, Gill Passman wrote:
[...] The only point that I see of this post is to try and see what may or might not get past any moderators on a moderated rec.ponds...not a legitimate question but a bit of a game..... And that will be a valid line of questioning, although premature at this point. I believe you have your answer...although I haven't done this in the right order but I'm tired....the question is valid and on-topic.....so why wouldn't it get posted even though the sentiments expressed are designed to be imflammatory ......if it went further down the line then maybe it would get banned....but I'm sure that you are not even slightly serious in the solutions you are proposing....you are playing a game to see what would happen....and that is fine.....you got answers on the unmoderated group....most valid as well....I'm sorry, but I don't see how moderation should impact this post....apart from thinking (sorry) that the post was deliberately made to inflame people.....which afterall is your intention albeit just to test how the moderators would react... Gill PS I have no idea whatsoever how this would get through any moderation process but once the RFD gets published, and we do need to wait for this rather than speculate, we can then argue about the moderation policy...rather than trying to preempt this.... Exactly. Once the RFD is published, people will know exactly what moderation policies and moderators are being proposed. At that time, I recommend posing hypothetical questions to these moderators about how they would deal with certain posts. You can either make posts up or find actual posts. Not only does this help you understand how the proposed moderators think, it gives them practice in making moderation decisions. The sort of thing that "Tristan" has been posting will be quite useful for this process. Thank you, Tristan. And thanks to you, Gill, for drawing attention to this. -- Jayne |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
On 06 Dec 2006 00:56:55 GMT, wrote:
I was an acive duty Marine briefly during the Korean War. I greatly admire mustang officers. Please thank your brother for me. Semper Fi, bro. I owe ya a drink! I never even made NCO in the Air Force. The highest I made was A1C, as they called it then. My Dad was an officer, my grandfather was an officer. I kept trying to tell them that it was a little bit different being enlisted. My brother understood and never forgot. I served under a lot of different officers, but only a very, very few were enlisted once. I think it makes a difference. I've got a hell of a lot of respect for that. No alligators out here in So Cal. That's where I would consider shooting it, as they make good eatin', too. Quaranteed recipe on request. ;-) You can't even look at them cross-eyed here. Well, that may be changing. They had a limited alligator hunt this year, but it was quite expensive and there were all kinds of hoops to jump through. There's talk about loosening up the protections they currently have, there are quite a few of them now. It's really tough to peacefully co-exist with them. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:10:49 -0600, Tristan wrote: Now just to set the record straight, doyou really think this post would have ever gotten into a moderated group? To set the record straight, as you put it, your original post, Kathy's follow up, your follow up to that follow up, my follow up... you get the picture, they all would be "allowed" if I were the moderator. And to set the record even straighter, we've already discussed _exactly_ this sort of advice, specifically because the one illegal recommendation that comes often on this group is the advice to kill a Heron (killing most of the other predators is much easier, legally). The consensus is that the correct way to deal with illegal, or just plain stupid, advice is in the newsgroup, not the moderation process. -- derek |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:05:31 -0500, Vorian Atreides
wrote: wrote: Galen Hekhuis wrote: Tristan wrote: [ . . . ] Galen, have you looked at to whom you're responding? Why bother? Kf him! I hope you are not the clown sending e-mail to kill file everyone you and your Cabal doesn't agree with. Funny you should mention that, I just bought a clown nose and a clown wig. But, no, I'm not the one sending email. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
wrote in message ... I had a heron problem about 10 years ago. The buzzard got 2 of my koi and a goldfish! I put up bird net and have had no problem since. ================ We found the fine black bird netting from ACE Hardware is strong and not all that visible. After awhile you don't even see it. It's kept everything out of our ponds. We have all kinds of wildlife here including King Fishers, herons, cranes and other water birds. I didn't bother with the motion sprayers because they haven't worked for some of the local ponders I'd spoken to over the years. King Fishers hit too fast to be effected by a spray. One said the herons learned to fish in front of the thing out of the line of spray and snakes and bullfrogs weren't deterred at all. If you're off at work or away for the weekend and the hose pops, you're in for one hellacious water bill. -- KL.... Frugal ponding since 1995. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Galen Hekhuis wrote: I'll answer anything I have knowledge of, and that isn't a whole lot of things so I have to jump at every chance I get. I have some hot buttons too, and guns is one of them. One of my hottest buttons is caves, but people rarely press that one, so I have to make do with some of the lesser ones. So, if I'm spelunking and see a heron attacking some cave koi, would you suggest I bag 'em with a .22 or a 12ga? (sorry, I just had to.) It was really funny in my head but might not be so now that it's typed. steve |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
On 6 Dec 2006 08:06:01 -0800, "default" wrote:
So, if I'm spelunking and see a heron attacking some cave koi, would you suggest I bag 'em with a .22 or a 12ga? First off, if you're "spelunking" you don't do it much. I've never heard another caver refer to "spelunking" except with a bit of a sigh. It's true that we often are members of the National Speleological Society, but cavers almost universally refer to themselves as "cavers," not "spelunkers." Second, almost all cavers adhere to the philosophy of "Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but tracks, kill nothing but time." Third, using any type of gun underground is a very bad idea. You are surrounded by rock. There is an extremely high possibility of ricochet. Also the sound would be deafening. You might be able to get away with a .22 but the report of a 12 ga would probably cause permanent damage. Fourth, it is quite illegal in many states to remove anything from a cave. (sorry, I just had to.) It was really funny in my head but might not be so now that it's typed. No sweat. I mentioned that caves were one of my "hot buttons." :^) Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
On 6 Dec 2006 08:06:01 -0800, "default"
wrote: Galen Hekhuis wrote: I'll answer anything I have knowledge of, and that isn't a whole lot of things so I have to jump at every chance I get. I have some hot buttons too, and guns is one of them. One of my hottest buttons is caves, but people rarely press that one, so I have to make do with some of the lesser ones. So, if I'm spelunking and see a heron attacking some cave koi, would you suggest I bag 'em with a .22 or a 12ga? (sorry, I just had to.) It was really funny in my head but might not be so now that it's typed. steve Give it up Steve.......your post went right over Galens head.............most folks here are too narrow minded to know a post that was meant to be humorous from those making a real statement. Whats the term....stiff lipped bunch that they are! Hell Galen and NIck are stil scratching their heads or may be thier butts tryung to figure out how it can possibly be legal to do things in other states that is illegal where they live......duh! |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 11:22:33 -0600, Tristan
wrote: Give it up Steve.......your post went right over Galens head.............most folks here are too narrow minded to know a post that was meant to be humorous from those making a real statement. Whats the term....stiff lipped bunch that they are! Hell Galen and NIck are stil scratching their heads or may be thier butts tryung to figure out how it can possibly be legal to do things in other states that is illegal where they live......duh! Yeah, sometimes you wind up being the humorless jerk when you reflect that somewhere, somehow, some idiot may take the suggestion seriously. Like I say, caves are a real "hot button" item with me. You can really jerk my wire by posting questions about caves. It is pretty much like shooting fish in a barrel, but then you probably like that. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Ok...this whole question of dealing with herons got me thinking - of course in a "back yard" pond using nets and water spray is an option (and I don't think shooting the things would be an option in a residential area - in fact I can pretty much imagine what would happen) but I wondered what would happen if the pond was much larger or even a lake/loch...and if there was a commercial side to it. Obviously if fish are being raised on a commercial basis having a heron or any other predator taking fish becomes an issue if too frequent. Now, I know nothing of the legality in the US but thought I'd find out what happens on the trout farm where my Dad lives up in Scotland (herons are as much of an issue over here as in the US)....apparently the herons are tolerated as there is little that can be done about them - get rid of one and another one turns up (bit like bad pennies I guess)....but they do shoot at the cormorants - mainly to scare rather than kill.... Gill |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
If you can show y raise fish on a commercial basis (size of business
does not mean anyhting so yu can have 1/2 acre or 100 acres of say, Catfish or tilapia you raise and "SELL" its not overly hard to get a permit to shoot them. Arbitrarily shooting just to scare them even with no intention on killing them or hitting them can get you in trouble just the same as killing without a permit. Its called harrassment, (just like what Carol does harrasses without killing) and the migratory bird law states its illegal to harrass or disturb these birds......So in all reality propane canons, sicking fido the dog on them, physically chasing them off whle shouting obscenities at them, or even use of a scarecrow sprinkler can be conceived as harrassment and disturbing them. Odds are however no enforcement officer is gonna do anything if you physically run them off or put your dog on them or use a sprinkler, but I certainly would not get caught shooting to scare them with a firearm or a bow and arrow or even a primitive spear as in most places thats gonna get you in trouble. Fortunately just talking to lots of wildlife enforcement offiers will tell you really quick like enforcing certain laws is not on their list of priorities or they will guide you to a legal way to do it. For example what is illegal here is shooting coyotes form a elevated tree stand etc and usuing an electronic predator call. Coyotes are a big problem in this region, and law enforcement could care less if you shoot from a tree stand and have a electronic caller.....Same thing applies to herons in this region as well.They turn a blind eye. On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:23:03 +0000, Gill Passman wrote: Ok...this whole question of dealing with herons got me thinking - of course in a "back yard" pond using nets and water spray is an option (and I don't think shooting the things would be an option in a residential area - in fact I can pretty much imagine what would happen) but I wondered what would happen if the pond was much larger or even a lake/loch...and if there was a commercial side to it. Obviously if fish are being raised on a commercial basis having a heron or any other predator taking fish becomes an issue if too frequent. Now, I know nothing of the legality in the US but thought I'd find out what happens on the trout farm where my Dad lives up in Scotland (herons are as much of an issue over here as in the US)....apparently the herons are tolerated as there is little that can be done about them - get rid of one and another one turns up (bit like bad pennies I guess)....but they do shoot at the cormorants - mainly to scare rather than kill.... Gill |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
"Gill Passman" wrote in message
... Ok...this whole question of dealing with herons got me thinking - of course in a "back yard" pond using nets and water spray is an option (and I don't think shooting the things would be an option in a residential area - in fact I can pretty much imagine what would happen) but I wondered what would happen if the pond was much larger or even a lake/loch...and if there was a commercial side to it. Obviously if fish are being raised on a commercial basis having a heron or any other predator taking fish becomes an issue if too frequent. Now, I know nothing of the legality in the US but thought I'd find out what happens on the trout farm where my Dad lives up in Scotland (herons are as much of an issue over here as in the US)....apparently the herons are tolerated as there is little that can be done about them - get rid of one and another one turns up (bit like bad pennies I guess)....but they do shoot at the cormorants - mainly to scare rather than kill.... Gill There's a suggestion I've often seen in gardening books and groups: If you want to deter birds and rabbits from eating your desirable crops, plant something they really like in another part of your garden and let them have at it! They will still eat some of your desirable crops, but maybe if you also have mild deterrence there, most of the damage will be done to the free meal you offered them. Anyway, for large backyard ponds and commercial operations, I wonder if that kind of approach would work, or would you find yourself attracting ever larger flocks of herons? Gail rec.ponder since April 2003 |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
As both herons and comorants eat primarily fish I very much doubt that approach would work unless you set up a pond of sacrificial fish and made it a bit more tempting than those you are trying to preserve.....it's the fish they want....It has to be said when watching herons around the lake at the place I used to work they tended to be solo operators but I don't know if this is the norm - but might explain why placing a fake heron sculpture also seems to work with a smaller pond....but my guess is you'd need an awful lot of these around a lake/loch....We're going up there just after christmas...now I can't wait to interrogate the owner on his policy with this...along with an estimate of how many fish he loses to herons and what the cost implications are....and Yep, once I find out I will report back to rec.ponds even if it isn't moderated.... Gill rec.pond lurker since Nov 2003 and very occassional poster - don't have a pond at the moment just a great interest in them |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
"Gill Passman" wrote in message
... As both herons and comorants eat primarily fish I very much doubt that approach would work unless you set up a pond of sacrificial fish and made it a bit more tempting than those you are trying to preserve.....it's the fish they want.... That was kinda my idea. I have no idea if it's a practical idea! But sometimes even good ideas come out of brainstorming. Or maybe I should have said out of ignorance (mine). :) It has to be said when watching herons around the lake at the place I used to work they tended to be solo operators but I don't know if this is the norm - but might explain why placing a fake heron sculpture also seems to work with a smaller pond.... I've heard that, too. A friend sent me a lovely heron sculpture which I put by my vulnerable in-ground pond. Don't know if it's made a difference, but I only have minnows and a few goldfish in there. but my guess is you'd need an awful lot of these around a lake/loch....We're going up there just after christmas...now I can't wait to interrogate the owner on his policy with this...along with an estimate of how many fish he loses to herons and what the cost implications are....and Yep, once I find out I will report back to rec.ponds even if it isn't moderated.... I'm interested in what you find out. Gill rec.pond lurker since Nov 2003 and very occassional poster - don't have a pond at the moment just a great interest in them Gail rec.ponder since April 2003 |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Yea, we put a truck ooad of culls in there with the good prized koi, and write cull on their backs in magic markers or hang little signs on them if time permits. Heron and other predators are very smart and understanding so they eat only those marked as culls! Why we even dig separate ponds so they can be stocked with food quality fish for the herons, and they are very well behaved as they stay only at those ponds designated as fish for eating only. sheeeeeeeeeesh On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:18:39 GMT, "Gail Futoran" wrote: "Gill Passman" wrote in message . .. Ok...this whole question of dealing with herons got me thinking - of course in a "back yard" pond using nets and water spray is an option (and I don't think shooting the things would be an option in a residential area - in fact I can pretty much imagine what would happen) but I wondered what would happen if the pond was much larger or even a lake/loch...and if there was a commercial side to it. Obviously if fish are being raised on a commercial basis having a heron or any other predator taking fish becomes an issue if too frequent. Now, I know nothing of the legality in the US but thought I'd find out what happens on the trout farm where my Dad lives up in Scotland (herons are as much of an issue over here as in the US)....apparently the herons are tolerated as there is little that can be done about them - get rid of one and another one turns up (bit like bad pennies I guess)....but they do shoot at the cormorants - mainly to scare rather than kill.... Gill There's a suggestion I've often seen in gardening books and groups: If you want to deter birds and rabbits from eating your desirable crops, plant something they really like in another part of your garden and let them have at it! They will still eat some of your desirable crops, but maybe if you also have mild deterrence there, most of the damage will be done to the free meal you offered them. Anyway, for large backyard ponds and commercial operations, I wonder if that kind of approach would work, or would you find yourself attracting ever larger flocks of herons? Gail rec.ponder since April 2003 |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Its a myth that a heron owns or takes over a place. You may only see one heron at a time in a small back yard pond byt on a pond of sufificint size its not uncommon to see more than one.Just becaus eherson are not seen during daylight hours does not mean they are not out there at night time...they do a lot of their hunting at night when your sleeping. Herons are plain sneaky. On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:25:18 +0000, Gill Passman wrote: As both herons and comorants eat primarily fish I very much doubt that approach would work unless you set up a pond of sacrificial fish and made it a bit more tempting than those you are trying to preserve.....it's the fish they want....It has to be said when watching herons around the lake at the place I used to work they tended to be solo operators but I don't know if this is the norm - but might explain why placing a fake heron sculpture also seems to work with a smaller pond....but my guess is you'd need an awful lot of these around a lake/loch....We're going up there just after christmas...now I can't wait to interrogate the owner on his policy with this...along with an estimate of how many fish he loses to herons and what the cost implications are....and Yep, once I find out I will report back to rec.ponds even if it isn't moderated.... Gill rec.pond lurker since Nov 2003 and very occassional poster - don't have a pond at the moment just a great interest in them |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Well here is a typical usenet group answer. Give up the smokes so yo can enjoy your pond and fish longer.....now for my view. Smoke em if ya got em, and waste the heron so your fish live longer and yu can enjoy them. Fish don't have a choice if they want to become food for a heron but a human does have the choice to choose....... Like I posted previously. given sufficient realestate for herons, its not uncommon to see more thanone. I can take you to place here where they are literally lined up along the shorelines. On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 21:07:30 +0000, Gill Passman wrote: Of course it is very difficult to tell one heron from another - they look pretty much all the same to me (but don't tell this to the politically correct crew that will say every bird is different - lol). I guess I'm saying I've never seen more than one hunting in one location at a time - and believe me working for a company with a strict non smoking policy and needing to walk for one gave me more than ample opportunity to observe the heron.... Gill rec.pond lurker since Nov 2003 and very occassional poster - don't have a pond at the moment just a great interest in them |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Of course it is very difficult to tell one heron from another - they look pretty much all the same to me (but don't tell this to the politically correct crew that will say every bird is different - lol). I guess I'm saying I've never seen more than one hunting in one location at a time - and believe me working for a company with a strict non smoking policy and needing to walk for one gave me more than ample opportunity to observe the heron.... Gill rec.pond lurker since Nov 2003 and very occassional poster - don't have a pond at the moment just a great interest in them |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Tristan wrote:
Well here is a typical usenet group answer. Give up the smokes so yo can enjoy your pond and fish longer.....now for my view. Smoke em if ya got em, and waste the heron so your fish live longer and yu can enjoy them. Fish don't have a choice if they want to become food for a heron but a human does have the choice to choose....... LOL - actually I gave up the job as more detrimental to my health than the fags....fags are next on the agenda (woops 18 months on).....and some of the trout from that farm are currently residing in my freezer....but I do miss watching the "wild fish" in the stream and lake and the birds that came to prey on them. I guess the money issue comes into play whether looking it commercially or as pets....when it comes to pets we then look at our own attachment to these creatures...as I've said I don't have a pond (yet) but I would be incredibly ****ed off if I'd just spent £90 on a lovely, big, koi to see it become heron fodder...but I couldn't shoot the heron - gun laws far stricter over here so I would have to be going with other advice given....not only is it down to gun laws but when your neighbour truly lives in your back yard you just couldn't do it....woops there goes their cat - shame I'm a bad shot (very extreme example)... Like I posted previously. given sufficient realestate for herons, its not uncommon to see more thanone. I can take you to place here where they are literally lined up along the shorelines. I am now greatly looking forward to putting these questions to the owner of the fish farm in question (technically he is my step-brother but without wandering too far off-topic it is not a relationship I want to acknowledge as that and him neither).....I also am greatly interested in how such a venture works.....maybe not technically ponds but hopefully a subject of interest to us all.... Gill rec.pond lurker since Nov 2003 and very occassional poster - don't have a pond at the moment just a great interest in them - enjoying what is now an on-topic discussion |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
"Gill Passman" wrote in message ... As both herons and comorants eat primarily fish I very much doubt that approach would work unless you set up a pond of sacrificial fish and made it a bit more tempting than those you are trying to preserve.....it's the fish they want... And it can get expensive replacing the sacrificial fish. Plus there's still nothing to keep them from going after your prize koi and goldfish. :-( ..It has to be said when watching herons around the lake at the place I used to work they tended to be solo operators but I don't know if this is the norm - but might explain why placing a fake heron sculpture also seems to work with a smaller pond.... A heron looking for a mate will stop to check out the fake heron. Fake herons are no guarantee to keep the real thing away. They do nothing for King Fishers. I also witnessed a heron standing by one pond while another worked the other pond next to it. For some of us nets are the only answer. -- KL.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
So maybe we have got, through sensible discussion, to the point that in a commercial or large lake environment maybe shooting/killing is the best option...on a smaller scale then the sculptures, sprays, nets and fences will be the best option but it isn't the way to go on a large scale environment.... I think this a great example of how moderation could kill a good discussion or how good moderation can allow this type of post to get through and generate an intelligent conversation.....it is to be hoped that the moderators on the proposed rec.ponds.moderated can see that even if a post starts off as being inflammatory it is still valid....and sometimes I can see that playing devil's advocate by taking an unpopular stance can provoke debate and discussion....this IMO is a good thing....and actually the point that the OP wanted to prove/discuss/bring out into the open... I look forward to intelligent posts on this subject such as we are now getting from all concerned....it gives me hope that this can continue.... Gill |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
"Gill Passman" wrote in message ... So maybe we have got, through sensible discussion, to the point that in a commercial or large lake environment maybe shooting/killing is the best option...on a smaller scale then the sculptures, sprays, nets and fences will be the best option but it isn't the way to go on a large scale environment.... This may be true but I have seen some large breeding establishments netted. They don't care what it looks like as the fish and the environment are what's most important. We chose the nets rather then having to constantly watch the ponds to chase away the predators, or to kill them. Killing the herons will do nothing for other predators you have in rural areas here in the USA. I think this a great example of how moderation could kill a good discussion or how good moderation can allow this type of post to get through and generate an intelligent conversation..... That would be up to the moderators. If someone don't like someone else's post they can ignore it and not reply. Or if the moderator can see it's clearly designed to make people angry, they can refuse to pass it. Where to draw the line - I have no idea. it is to be hoped that the moderators on the proposed rec.ponds.moderated can see that even if a post starts off as being inflammatory it is still valid... Right. Everyone else has the choice to reply or ignore such posts. ..and sometimes I can see that playing devil's advocate by taking an unpopular stance can provoke debate and discussion.... As long as it doesn't degenerate into personal attacks as you can see flourish on this unmoderated group. If that's allowed, then having a moderated group is a waste of time. this IMO is a good thing....and actually the point that the OP wanted to prove/discuss/bring out into the open... Nothing wrong with that........ the more ideas and questions the better in my opinion. I look forward to intelligent posts on this subject such as we are now getting from all concerned....it gives me hope that this can continue.... It will be even better once the personal attacks are stopped and or removed as I'm sure you would agree. ;-) Also, if those who constantly harass and troll me are forced to keep one NYM, they can be killfiled. -- KL.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* .. |
So how do I kill off a heron thats eating my koi
Köi-Lö wrote:
"Gill Passman" wrote in message ... So maybe we have got, through sensible discussion, to the point that in a commercial or large lake environment maybe shooting/killing is the best option...on a smaller scale then the sculptures, sprays, nets and fences will be the best option but it isn't the way to go on a large scale environment.... This may be true but I have seen some large breeding establishments netted. They don't care what it looks like as the fish and the environment are what's most important. We chose the nets rather then having to constantly watch the ponds to chase away the predators, or to kill them. Killing the herons will do nothing for other predators you have in rural areas here in the USA. I think that point is academic....you cannot net a loch or lake that is many acres in size....appearance in these sort of applications are not really an issue...the commercial raising of fish either Koi for resale or trout for human consumption is lucrative......Yes you can watch a "small pond" but not something on a larger scale.... That would be up to the moderators. If someone don't like someone else's post they can ignore it and not reply. Or if the moderator can see it's clearly designed to make people angry, they can refuse to pass it. Where to draw the line - I have no idea. Sometimes being contraversial and in fact posting something you don't necessarily hold as an opinion opens the world up to healthy debate. I could post that I believe that fish fry are a valid food source for my other fish and get flamed but it opens a debate as to how we see this.....and it becomes an interesting on topic discussion....I might be seen as being provoctive in saying this but I can always reserve the right of playing devil's advocate in getting a healthy debate going....sometimes doing this is good and it gets us all to examine our beliefs and attitudes....I don't see in anyway that a moderated group should lead to a supression of this sort of discussion - because it is very valid and a dilemma that faces any type of fishkeeper....get rid of the predator or sacrifice the fish - ever seen an angel with mollie fry???? Ever seen a heron steal a prize fish???? where do we actually draw our moral line.....discussing it is great and I am pleased that the topic has been brought up... It will be even better once the personal attacks are stopped and or removed as I'm sure you would agree. ;-) Also, if those who constantly harass and troll me are forced to keep one NYM, they can be killfiled. I guess the whole thing is about everyone keeping one nym.....and a valid reply to address....personal attacks will not happen on a moderated group....and hey everyone can shift nyms and email addresses at the drop of a hat as has been demonstrated by the mess on rec.ponds....you can all also pretend to be one another....but the key really is where is the point in playing these games if all you can do is post on topic????? yes, you can be traced but you can also filter and delete on your mail application just the same way as you can on usenet... Gill |
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