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Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
Hi. I'm a bit at the end of my rope here. Pond is pretty much dug
and has been sitting naked for almost 2 weeks. We understand the benefits of a bottom drain & will put one in. But which one? There are a few different types. Above liner or below? Someone told me that a standard under liner drain fitting allows a 1/4" gap for the water to flow into. To me... I envision this getting clogged every day with me constantly fussing with it. I can't fathom how a lousy 1/4" gap is going to do much gunk removal. I wanted to confirm this so I called a pond supply company. Basic Tetra drain - The guy told me that the basic Tetra drain's gap width would depend on the install. If I want a higher gap - don't sink the drain so low, etc. He said it could give me a 1/2" gap. OK. There is a retrofit that looks very nice. Comes in 2 sizes. Allows for 2,3, or 4" tubing. The bottom of the unit is a big 10" diameter hole. I was told it rests 5/8" off the ground. I like the idea of being able to move it around or pull it up if it clogs, attaching the tubing to something else, etc. Another drain is W. Limm. I haven't yet inquired about the specs on this. My choices a Tetra underliner drain (pretty basic) with a potential 1/2" gap. Or 1/4" depending on who the heck you talk to. Lim drain Aqua Wizard Retrofit (5/8" gap). Here are pictures: http://www.fancykoioutlet.com/supply/skimmer_drain.htm Can anyone advise which one to get? I'm stunned that these things don't allow for a ratcheting up or down to allow more or less water through depending on your mood/need at a given time. Looks like one is locked into the gap width with these except the Aqua wizard retrofit which could be raised up. I was told the retrofit would be equally effected to an underliner and if one is in the building stage like I am - the decision would really boil down to aesthetics. Would this be a correct statement? Also, the regular tetra underliner has a 3" outlet - can I stick to a 3" PVC? I'd love to because those stupid gate valves are pricey and the 4" is crazy. The run wouldn't be far. I'd say no more than 12 feet. Can I get away with a 3" pipe? Thanks |
Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
"Lisa" wrote in message
om... Hi. I'm a bit at the end of my rope here. Pond is pretty much dug and has been sitting naked for almost 2 weeks. We understand the benefits of a bottom drain & will put one in. But which one? There are a few different types. Above liner or below? Get Bickal's design and build one yourself. It's easy, and MUCH cheaper. Sorry, but I don't have the link in front of me, and I have not HTTP access to check for it. BV. |
Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
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Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
Thanks. I've seen his site - great stuff but on this project I'm not
crazy about a diy. They are only about $50 and I don't want to mess around cutting my liner with a diy project. I'm also incredibly fedup with the pond process. My pond is pretty much dug but I have to decide if I want an under-liner or above/retrofit drain. Is there any difference other than aesthetics? Which should I go for. My thought is the drain install is a big deal with leveling, etc. and would be a major project and I'm not seeing the big benefit. |
Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
"Lisa" wrote in message
om... Thanks. I've seen his site - great stuff but on this project I'm not crazy about a diy. They are only about $50 and I don't want to mess around cutting my liner with a diy project. I'm also incredibly fedup with the pond process. My pond is pretty much dug but I have to decide if I want an under-liner or above/retrofit drain. Is there any difference other than aesthetics? Which should I go for. My thought is the drain install is a big deal with leveling, etc. and would be a major project and I'm not seeing the big benefit. Lisa I had all of the same fears, but went with the under liner install. The pipe is hidden which is nice, and getting the bottom level was actually very easy. As for the hole in the liner...I used a Beckal Boot, but my pipe clamp did not fit, so right now I have a bottom drain with no clamp...no leaks. Amazing. BV. |
Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
One person on this list had a leak under his liner using the DIY method.
The Tetra has closed cell foam that might make a better seal. Now is the time to install a bottom drain even if you cap it off. The retrofit is alright but hard to hide. In my mind, the bottom drain is more a way of recirculating water from the bottom strata of the pond, not a way to clean debris. A skimmer does that. "Lisa" wrote in message om... Hi. I'm a bit at the end of my rope here. Pond is pretty much dug and has been sitting naked for almost 2 weeks. We understand the benefits of a bottom drain & will put one in. But which one? There are a few different types. Above liner or below? Someone told me that a standard under liner drain fitting allows a 1/4" gap for the water to flow into. To me... I envision this getting clogged every day with me constantly fussing with it. I can't fathom how a lousy 1/4" gap is going to do much gunk removal. I wanted to confirm this so I called a pond supply company. Basic Tetra drain - The guy told me that the basic Tetra drain's gap width would depend on the install. If I want a higher gap - don't sink the drain so low, etc. He said it could give me a 1/2" gap. OK. There is a retrofit that looks very nice. Comes in 2 sizes. Allows for 2,3, or 4" tubing. The bottom of the unit is a big 10" diameter hole. I was told it rests 5/8" off the ground. I like the idea of being able to move it around or pull it up if it clogs, attaching the tubing to something else, etc. Another drain is W. Limm. I haven't yet inquired about the specs on this. My choices a Tetra underliner drain (pretty basic) with a potential 1/2" gap. Or 1/4" depending on who the heck you talk to. Lim drain Aqua Wizard Retrofit (5/8" gap). Here are pictures: http://www.fancykoioutlet.com/supply/skimmer_drain.htm Can anyone advise which one to get? I'm stunned that these things don't allow for a ratcheting up or down to allow more or less water through depending on your mood/need at a given time. Looks like one is locked into the gap width with these except the Aqua wizard retrofit which could be raised up. I was told the retrofit would be equally effected to an underliner and if one is in the building stage like I am - the decision would really boil down to aesthetics. Would this be a correct statement? Also, the regular tetra underliner has a 3" outlet - can I stick to a 3" PVC? I'd love to because those stupid gate valves are pricey and the 4" is crazy. The run wouldn't be far. I'd say no more than 12 feet. Can I get away with a 3" pipe? Thanks |
Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
On 30 May 2003 14:34:28 -0700, (Lisa) wrote:
Great. I've decided to get a 4" bottom drain & run 4" pipe from it under the liner. Now I'm trying to figure out if I should put a gate valve BEFORE the skimmer line comes in or after they merge - at the filter box. I can close the door to the skimmer to turn that off, but if I want the skimmer running ONLY - I wouldn't be able to do that if the valve is at the filter box. Scratching head here. Having both types, I'm glad you decided on the under-the-liner. As far as the gate valve do make it so you can valve down or turn off the bottom drain, the reason behind this is if you want to do a slow circ. in the winter you can close down the bottom drain minimal to nothing and use just the skimmer. This spring has been a very foamy one for me this year and we actually disconnected the bottom drain to get the skimmer to work harder. It has helped, plus I sold two of my bigger fish today, so hopefully all will be back to normal around here soon. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
Well - Actually, I've changed my mind and am now going to go with the
Aqua-Wizard retro drain above the liner feeding into the wall of the pond. It occurred to me that being in z5 - I got very concerned about freezing lines/possible breakage. My freeze line here is 3 feet (from what I understand). So in my mind, I'd have to either run a straight horizontal shot from the drain (3.5-4' below) to an underground filter (not going to happen) OR devise a way to close off & empty as much pipe as I can where the pipe begins to rise... that I'd be susceptible to cracks in the pvc with the freeze/thaw cycle. Since trenching down 4' & sinking a filter in the ground isn't an option. My only other recourse to prevent freeze cracks is to install a gate valve WAY below the surface by the ponds edge & create a deep well around it or diving in the pond, popping off the lid & plugging the hole of the drain. I imagine this to be a nasty job to perform in December or so. I felt with the retro, I can reach in, pull off the retro & easily cap the pvc hole in the wall - suck out the water - close the gate valve at the filter. I've done a few searches here and it does seem that freezing pipe is an issue and people have had problems. If my logic is misguided - please let me know. :) Having both types, I'm glad you decided on the under-the-liner. As far as the gate valve do make it so you can valve down or turn off the bottom drain, the reason behind this is if you want to do a slow circ. in the winter you can close down the bottom drain minimal to nothing and use just the skimmer. |
Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
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Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
Thank you. That's a good solution. I had also thought of a 4" pvc as
a well. My drain would be about 3.5' underground. :) I thought of opening the valve in spring with a hook, then closing it with a baseball bat. LOL I'm really looking hard at the large Aqua Wizard retro drain. It's designed differently than the tetra. Quite differently. One of which the Tetra was 2", the Aqua Wizard can go from 2 to 4" pipe. Would be so simple to deal with & I don't think it would be visible at all. I think it would behave the same as a bottom drain. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think it might even be better. Not sure if my logic is 100% correct however. John Hines wrote in message . .. (Lisa) wrote: Since trenching down 4' & sinking a filter in the ground isn't an option. My only other recourse to prevent freeze cracks is to install a gate valve WAY below the surface by the ponds edge & create a deep well around it or diving in the pond, popping off the lid & plugging the hole of the drain. I imagine this to be a nasty job to perform in December or so. Put a piece of 4" pvc pipe in the vertical, and make up an extra long handle for the valve. Put a cap over it, when you don't need access. That is the way plumbing works around here, the valve itself is below/insulated, and the handle goes outside, or up to the surface. You'll only need to dig it up if it fails. |
Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
Someone just sent me an email saying that the Aqua Wizard will float
if using flex pvc and I'll have to put rocks on it. And I already ordered it. I can't believe it - that's the last thing I want to do is to mess around with putting rocks on this thing. Doesn't anyone out there have this unit? It's been out for a while now and I'd think more people would have one? |
Need to Order Bottom Drain TODAY (maybe valves) - But Which Type?
Anything on the flex pvc will go wherever the pvc goes, and it will go
everywhere but where you want it. Try a length of ABS pipe from the bottom drain to the flex pipe, or use fittings and eliminate the flex pvc. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Lisa" wrote in message om... Someone just sent me an email saying that the Aqua Wizard will float if using flex pvc and I'll have to put rocks on it. And I already ordered it. I can't believe it - that's the last thing I want to do is to mess around with putting rocks on this thing. Doesn't anyone out there have this unit? It's been out for a while now and I'd think more people would have one? |
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