Hi. I'm a bit at the end of my rope here. Pond is pretty much dug
and has been sitting naked for almost 2 weeks.

We understand the benefits of a bottom drain & will put one in. But
which one? There are a few different types. Above liner or below?

Someone told me that a standard under liner drain fitting allows a
1/4" gap for the water to flow into. To me... I envision this
getting clogged every day with me constantly fussing with it. I can't
fathom how a lousy 1/4" gap is going to do much gunk removal. I
wanted to confirm this so I called a pond supply company.

Basic Tetra drain - The guy told me that the basic Tetra drain's gap
width would depend on the install. If I want a higher gap - don't
sink the drain so low, etc. He said it could give me a 1/2" gap. OK.

There is a retrofit that looks very nice. Comes in 2 sizes. Allows
for 2,3, or 4" tubing. The bottom of the unit is a big 10" diameter
hole. I was told it rests 5/8" off the ground. I like the idea of
being able to move it around or pull it up if it clogs, attaching the
tubing to something else, etc.

Another drain is W. Limm. I haven't yet inquired about the specs on
this.

My choices a

Tetra underliner drain (pretty basic) with a potential 1/2" gap. Or
1/4" depending on who the heck you talk to.
Lim drain
Aqua Wizard Retrofit (5/8" gap).

Here are pictures: http://www.fancykoioutlet.com/supply/skimmer_drain.htm

Can anyone advise which one to get? I'm stunned that these things
don't allow for a ratcheting up or down to allow more or less water
through depending on your mood/need at a given time. Looks like one
is locked into the gap width with these except the Aqua wizard
retrofit which could be raised up.

I was told the retrofit would be equally effected to an underliner and
if one is in the building stage like I am - the decision would really
boil down to aesthetics. Would this be a correct statement?

Also, the regular tetra underliner has a 3" outlet - can I stick to a
3" PVC? I'd love to because those stupid gate valves are pricey and
the 4" is crazy. The run wouldn't be far. I'd say no more than 12
feet. Can I get away with a 3" pipe?

Thanks

"Lisa" wrote in message
om...
Hi. I'm a bit at the end of my rope here. Pond is pretty much dug
and has been sitting naked for almost 2 weeks.

We understand the benefits of a bottom drain & will put one in. But
which one? There are a few different types. Above liner or below?

Get Bickal's design and build one yourself. It's easy, and MUCH cheaper.
Sorry, but I don't have the link in front of me, and I have not HTTP access
to check for it.

BV.

This is Greg's wonderful site.

http://www.geocities.com/bickal2000/pond.htm


k30a

Thanks. I've seen his site - great stuff but on this project I'm not
crazy about a diy. They are only about $50 and I don't want to mess
around cutting my liner with a diy project. I'm also incredibly fedup
with the pond process.

My pond is pretty much dug but I have to decide if I want an
under-liner or above/retrofit drain.

Is there any difference other than aesthetics? Which should I go for.
My thought is the drain install is a big deal with leveling, etc. and
would be a major project and I'm not seeing the big benefit.

"Lisa" wrote in message
om...
Thanks. I've seen his site - great stuff but on this project I'm not
crazy about a diy. They are only about $50 and I don't want to mess
around cutting my liner with a diy project. I'm also incredibly fedup
with the pond process.

My pond is pretty much dug but I have to decide if I want an
under-liner or above/retrofit drain.

Is there any difference other than aesthetics? Which should I go for.
My thought is the drain install is a big deal with leveling, etc. and
would be a major project and I'm not seeing the big benefit.

Lisa I had all of the same fears, but went with the under liner install. The
pipe is hidden which is nice, and getting the bottom level was actually very
easy. As for the hole in the liner...I used a Beckal Boot, but my pipe clamp
did not fit, so right now I have a bottom drain with no clamp...no leaks.
Amazing.

BV.

One person on this list had a leak under his liner using the DIY method.
The Tetra has closed cell foam that might make a better seal. Now is the
time to install a bottom drain even if you cap it off. The retrofit is
alright but hard to hide.

In my mind, the bottom drain is more a way of recirculating water from the
bottom strata of the pond, not a way to clean debris. A skimmer does that.
"Lisa" wrote in message
om...
Hi. I'm a bit at the end of my rope here. Pond is pretty much dug
and has been sitting naked for almost 2 weeks.

We understand the benefits of a bottom drain & will put one in. But
which one? There are a few different types. Above liner or below?

Someone told me that a standard under liner drain fitting allows a
1/4" gap for the water to flow into. To me... I envision this
getting clogged every day with me constantly fussing with it. I can't
fathom how a lousy 1/4" gap is going to do much gunk removal. I
wanted to confirm this so I called a pond supply company.

Basic Tetra drain - The guy told me that the basic Tetra drain's gap
width would depend on the install. If I want a higher gap - don't
sink the drain so low, etc. He said it could give me a 1/2" gap. OK.

There is a retrofit that looks very nice. Comes in 2 sizes. Allows
for 2,3, or 4" tubing. The bottom of the unit is a big 10" diameter
hole. I was told it rests 5/8" off the ground. I like the idea of
being able to move it around or pull it up if it clogs, attaching the
tubing to something else, etc.

Another drain is W. Limm. I haven't yet inquired about the specs on
this.

My choices a

Tetra underliner drain (pretty basic) with a potential 1/2" gap. Or
1/4" depending on who the heck you talk to.
Lim drain
Aqua Wizard Retrofit (5/8" gap).

Here are pictures: http://www.fancykoioutlet.com/supply/skimmer_drain.htm

Can anyone advise which one to get? I'm stunned that these things
don't allow for a ratcheting up or down to allow more or less water
through depending on your mood/need at a given time. Looks like one
is locked into the gap width with these except the Aqua wizard
retrofit which could be raised up.

I was told the retrofit would be equally effected to an underliner and
if one is in the building stage like I am - the decision would really
boil down to aesthetics. Would this be a correct statement?

Also, the regular tetra underliner has a 3" outlet - can I stick to a
3" PVC? I'd love to because those stupid gate valves are pricey and
the 4" is crazy. The run wouldn't be far. I'd say no more than 12
feet. Can I get away with a 3" pipe?

Thanks

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Xref: kermit rec.ponds:112419

Great. I've decided to get a 4" bottom drain & run 4" pipe from it
under the liner. Now I'm trying to figure out if I should put a gate
valve BEFORE the skimmer line comes in or after they merge - at the
filter box.

I can close the door to the skimmer to turn that off, but if I want
the skimmer running ONLY - I wouldn't be able to do that if the valve
is at the filter box.

Scratching head here.



Lisa I had all of the same fears, but went with the under liner install. The
pipe is hidden which is nice, and getting the bottom level was actually very
easy. As for the hole in the liner...I used a Beckal Boot, but my pipe clamp
did not fit, so right now I have a bottom drain with no clamp...no leaks.
Amazing.

BV.

On 30 May 2003 14:34:28 -0700, (Lisa) wrote:

Great. I've decided to get a 4" bottom drain & run 4" pipe from it
under the liner. Now I'm trying to figure out if I should put a gate
valve BEFORE the skimmer line comes in or after they merge - at the
filter box.

I can close the door to the skimmer to turn that off, but if I want
the skimmer running ONLY - I wouldn't be able to do that if the valve
is at the filter box.

Scratching head here.

Having both types, I'm glad you decided on the under-the-liner. As far as
the gate valve do make it so you can valve down or turn off the bottom
drain, the reason behind this is if you want to do a slow circ. in the
winter you can close down the bottom drain minimal to nothing and use just
the skimmer.

This spring has been a very foamy one for me this year and we actually
disconnected the bottom drain to get the skimmer to work harder. It has
helped, plus I sold two of my bigger fish today, so hopefully all will be
back to normal around here soon. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Well - Actually, I've changed my mind and am now going to go with the
Aqua-Wizard retro drain above the liner feeding into the wall of the
pond.

It occurred to me that being in z5 - I got very concerned about
freezing lines/possible breakage. My freeze line here is 3 feet (from
what I understand). So in my mind, I'd have to either run a straight
horizontal shot from the drain (3.5-4' below) to an underground filter
(not going to happen) OR devise a way to close off & empty as much
pipe as I can where the pipe begins to rise... that I'd be
susceptible to cracks in the pvc with the freeze/thaw cycle.

Since trenching down 4' & sinking a filter in the ground isn't an
option. My only other recourse to prevent freeze cracks is to install
a gate valve WAY below the surface by the ponds edge & create a deep
well around it or diving in the pond, popping off the lid & plugging
the hole of the drain. I imagine this to be a nasty job to perform in
December or so.

I felt with the retro, I can reach in, pull off the retro & easily cap
the pvc hole in the wall - suck out the water - close the gate valve
at the filter.

I've done a few searches here and it does seem that freezing pipe is
an issue and people have had problems.

If my logic is misguided - please let me know.



Having both types, I'm glad you decided on the under-the-liner. As far as
the gate valve do make it so you can valve down or turn off the bottom
drain, the reason behind this is if you want to do a slow circ. in the
winter you can close down the bottom drain minimal to nothing and use just
the skimmer.

(Lisa) wrote:

Since trenching down 4' & sinking a filter in the ground isn't an
option. My only other recourse to prevent freeze cracks is to install
a gate valve WAY below the surface by the ponds edge & create a deep
well around it or diving in the pond, popping off the lid & plugging
the hole of the drain. I imagine this to be a nasty job to perform in
December or so.

Put a piece of 4" pvc pipe in the vertical, and make up an extra long
handle for the valve. Put a cap over it, when you don't need access.

That is the way plumbing works around here, the valve itself is
below/insulated, and the handle goes outside, or up to the surface.

You'll only need to dig it up if it fails.

Thank you. That's a good solution. I had also thought of a 4" pvc as
a well. My drain would be about 3.5' underground. I thought of
opening the valve in spring with a hook, then closing it with a
baseball bat. LOL

I'm really looking hard at the large Aqua Wizard retro drain. It's
designed differently than the tetra. Quite differently. One of which
the Tetra was 2", the Aqua Wizard can go from 2 to 4" pipe. Would be
so simple to deal with & I don't think it would be visible at all.

I think it would behave the same as a bottom drain. Actually, the
more I think about it, the more I think it might even be better. Not
sure if my logic is 100% correct however.




John Hines wrote in message . ..
(Lisa) wrote:

Since trenching down 4' & sinking a filter in the ground isn't an
option. My only other recourse to prevent freeze cracks is to install
a gate valve WAY below the surface by the ponds edge & create a deep
well around it or diving in the pond, popping off the lid & plugging
the hole of the drain. I imagine this to be a nasty job to perform in
December or so.

Put a piece of 4" pvc pipe in the vertical, and make up an extra long
handle for the valve. Put a cap over it, when you don't need access.

That is the way plumbing works around here, the valve itself is
below/insulated, and the handle goes outside, or up to the surface.

You'll only need to dig it up if it fails.

Someone just sent me an email saying that the Aqua Wizard will float
if using flex pvc and I'll have to put rocks on it. And I already
ordered it. I can't believe it - that's the last thing I want to do
is to mess around with putting rocks on this thing.

Doesn't anyone out there have this unit? It's been out for a while
now and I'd think more people would have one?

Anything on the flex pvc will go wherever the pvc goes, and it will go
everywhere but where you want it. Try a length of ABS pipe from the bottom
drain to the flex pipe, or use fittings and eliminate the flex pvc.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lisa" wrote in message
om...
Someone just sent me an email saying that the Aqua Wizard will float
if using flex pvc and I'll have to put rocks on it. And I already
ordered it. I can't believe it - that's the last thing I want to do
is to mess around with putting rocks on this thing.

Doesn't anyone out there have this unit? It's been out for a while
now and I'd think more people would have one?