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Safety of Copper Pipes?
"Ken Russell" wrote in message u... Not sure about its safety for fish. But your criteria "I figure it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that matter." is not sound. Chlorinated water is safe for us to drink but deadly to fish :-( snip That's true, but I can treat for that, and the treatments are readily available. I have never seen DeCopper anywhere. LOL. BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
"RichToyBox" wrote in message news:lIVVb.264673$xy6.1336469@attbi_s02... Copper will oxidize, though slowly, and the oxide will enter the water. It is very toxic once it reaches a certain concentration. When I started with aquaria about 30 years ago, the only cure for many of the parasites was to put copper pennies in the water, and when the fish started to roll, do a major water change. If it almost killed the fish, it probably killed the parasites. snip So is it safe to assume the water 'standing' in normal household pipes is not a problem because it is changed so often? Back to the drawing board I guess. BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
"Ken Russell" wrote in message u... Not sure about its safety for fish. But your criteria "I figure it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that matter." is not sound. Chlorinated water is safe for us to drink but deadly to fish :-( snip That's true, but I can treat for that, and the treatments are readily available. I have never seen DeCopper anywhere. LOL. BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
"RichToyBox" wrote in message news:lIVVb.264673$xy6.1336469@attbi_s02... Copper will oxidize, though slowly, and the oxide will enter the water. It is very toxic once it reaches a certain concentration. When I started with aquaria about 30 years ago, the only cure for many of the parasites was to put copper pennies in the water, and when the fish started to roll, do a major water change. If it almost killed the fish, it probably killed the parasites. snip So is it safe to assume the water 'standing' in normal household pipes is not a problem because it is changed so often? Back to the drawing board I guess. BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
If your PH is 7.0 it will leech and be dissolved into the water column and
build up and affect your fish. If your PH is 7.0 it will precipitate out and not affect anything. I know this from treating acid mine drainage. Sam P.S. Most dechlorinators now a days are also heavy metal removers. "BenignVanilla" wrote in message ... I just replumbed my entire house with copper, and I have some left over. I am thinking about building a DIY filter for my aquarium, just for fun. Any thoughts on the safety of using copper in an aquaria environment? I figure it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that matter. Any thoughts? BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
If your PH is 7.0 it will leech and be dissolved into the water column and
build up and affect your fish. If your PH is 7.0 it will precipitate out and not affect anything. I know this from treating acid mine drainage. Sam P.S. Most dechlorinators now a days are also heavy metal removers. "BenignVanilla" wrote in message ... I just replumbed my entire house with copper, and I have some left over. I am thinking about building a DIY filter for my aquarium, just for fun. Any thoughts on the safety of using copper in an aquaria environment? I figure it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that matter. Any thoughts? BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
If your PH is 7.0 it will leech and be dissolved into the water column and
build up and affect your fish. If your PH is 7.0 it will precipitate out and not affect anything. I know this from treating acid mine drainage. Sam P.S. Most dechlorinators now a days are also heavy metal removers. "BenignVanilla" wrote in message ... I just replumbed my entire house with copper, and I have some left over. I am thinking about building a DIY filter for my aquarium, just for fun. Any thoughts on the safety of using copper in an aquaria environment? I figure it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that matter. Any thoughts? BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
If your PH is 7.0 it will leech and be dissolved into the water column and
build up and affect your fish. If your PH is 7.0 it will precipitate out and not affect anything. I know this from treating acid mine drainage. Sam P.S. Most dechlorinators now a days are also heavy metal removers. "BenignVanilla" wrote in message ... I just replumbed my entire house with copper, and I have some left over. I am thinking about building a DIY filter for my aquarium, just for fun. Any thoughts on the safety of using copper in an aquaria environment? I figure it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that matter. Any thoughts? BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
If your PH is 7.0 it will leech and be dissolved into the water column and
build up and affect your fish. If your PH is 7.0 it will precipitate out and not affect anything. I know this from treating acid mine drainage. Sam P.S. Most dechlorinators now a days are also heavy metal removers. "BenignVanilla" wrote in message ... I just replumbed my entire house with copper, and I have some left over. I am thinking about building a DIY filter for my aquarium, just for fun. Any thoughts on the safety of using copper in an aquaria environment? I figure it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that matter. Any thoughts? BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message .. . If your PH is 7.0 it will leech and be dissolved into the water column and build up and affect your fish. If your PH is 7.0 it will precipitate out and not affect anything. I know this from treating acid mine drainage. Sam P.S. Most dechlorinators now a days are also heavy metal removers. snip Sam...I'll take your word for it, but I think I'll go with PVC. It's cheap. BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
Yeah but then we'll never know. =)
"BenignVanilla" wrote in message ... "Sam Hopkins" wrote in message .. . If your PH is 7.0 it will leech and be dissolved into the water column and build up and affect your fish. If your PH is 7.0 it will precipitate out and not affect anything. I know this from treating acid mine drainage. Sam P.S. Most dechlorinators now a days are also heavy metal removers. snip Sam...I'll take your word for it, but I think I'll go with PVC. It's cheap. BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message .. . Yeah but then we'll never know. =) snip LOL. BV. |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
If you have plants in your aquarium, the copper will either stunt them or
kill them eventually. Stick with plastic or stainless steel. Dean "BenignVanilla" wrote in message ... I just replumbed my entire house with copper, and I have some left over. I am thinking about building a DIY filter for my aquarium, just for fun. Any thoughts on the safety of using copper in an aquaria environment? I figure it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that matter. Any thoughts? BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
If you have plants in your aquarium, the copper will either stunt them or
kill them eventually. Stick with plastic or stainless steel. Dean "BenignVanilla" wrote in message ... I just replumbed my entire house with copper, and I have some left over. I am thinking about building a DIY filter for my aquarium, just for fun. Any thoughts on the safety of using copper in an aquaria environment? I figure it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that matter. Any thoughts? BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
Copper will oxidize, though slowly, and the oxide will enter the water. It
is very toxic once it reaches a certain concentration. When I started with aquaria about 30 years ago, the only cure for many of the parasites was to put copper pennies in the water, and when the fish started to roll, do a major water change. If it almost killed the fish, it probably killed the parasites. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "BenignVanilla" wrote in message ... I just replumbed my entire house with copper, and I have some left over. I am thinking about building a DIY filter for my aquarium, just for fun. Any thoughts on the safety of using copper in an aquaria environment? I figure it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that matter. Any thoughts? BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
Copper will oxidize, though slowly, and the oxide will enter the water. It
is very toxic once it reaches a certain concentration. When I started with aquaria about 30 years ago, the only cure for many of the parasites was to put copper pennies in the water, and when the fish started to roll, do a major water change. If it almost killed the fish, it probably killed the parasites. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "BenignVanilla" wrote in message ... I just replumbed my entire house with copper, and I have some left over. I am thinking about building a DIY filter for my aquarium, just for fun. Any thoughts on the safety of using copper in an aquaria environment? I figure it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that matter. Any thoughts? BV. www.iheartmypond.com |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
That's true, but I can treat for that, and the treatments are readily
available. I have never seen DeCopper anywhere. LOL. I know Mardel makes a form of chelated (sp?) copper called CopperSafe, for killing protozoans, flukes, and other parasites. I do know copper is harmful to invertebrates. I would think that it might possibly cause problems farther down the road, since you would not have a way of controlling the amount that was being added to the water. Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. I think I agree with taking the safe bet, and using PVC. DeAnna |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
That's true, but I can treat for that, and the treatments are readily
available. I have never seen DeCopper anywhere. LOL. I know Mardel makes a form of chelated (sp?) copper called CopperSafe, for killing protozoans, flukes, and other parasites. I do know copper is harmful to invertebrates. I would think that it might possibly cause problems farther down the road, since you would not have a way of controlling the amount that was being added to the water. Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. I think I agree with taking the safe bet, and using PVC. DeAnna |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
That's true, but I can treat for that, and the treatments are readily
available. I have never seen DeCopper anywhere. LOL. I know Mardel makes a form of chelated (sp?) copper called CopperSafe, for killing protozoans, flukes, and other parasites. I do know copper is harmful to invertebrates. I would think that it might possibly cause problems farther down the road, since you would not have a way of controlling the amount that was being added to the water. Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. I think I agree with taking the safe bet, and using PVC. DeAnna |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
That's true, but I can treat for that, and the treatments are readily
available. I have never seen DeCopper anywhere. LOL. I know Mardel makes a form of chelated (sp?) copper called CopperSafe, for killing protozoans, flukes, and other parasites. I do know copper is harmful to invertebrates. I would think that it might possibly cause problems farther down the road, since you would not have a way of controlling the amount that was being added to the water. Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. I think I agree with taking the safe bet, and using PVC. DeAnna |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
"Pond Newbie" wrote:
Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. Pennies in the last decade or so have been made of copper plated zinc. Neither is safe for fish. |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
"Pond Newbie" wrote:
Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. Pennies in the last decade or so have been made of copper plated zinc. Neither is safe for fish. |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
"Pond Newbie" wrote:
Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. Pennies in the last decade or so have been made of copper plated zinc. Neither is safe for fish. |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
"Pond Newbie" wrote:
Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. Pennies in the last decade or so have been made of copper plated zinc. Neither is safe for fish. |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
"Pond Newbie" wrote:
Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. Pennies in the last decade or so have been made of copper plated zinc. Neither is safe for fish. |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
"Pond Newbie" wrote:
Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. Pennies in the last decade or so have been made of copper plated zinc. Neither is safe for fish. |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
Sam Hopkins wrote: If your PH is 7.0 it will leech and be dissolved into the water column and build up and affect your fish. If your PH is 7.0 it will precipitate out and not affect anything. I know this from treating acid mine drainage. Sam .hmmmph our well water ph here runs about 8-9 and will disolve a copper pipe in a year or two in 1999 they put in a new subdivision an school near here and have had to replace all lthe copper pipes with pvc because of leaks, a real pain when the pipes are in under a concrete slab John Rutz |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
My guess is there's something more sinister going on. Copper pipes have been
used a long long long time in homes with water that is above 7 PH and the plumping in them still exists after 80 years. Sam "fuerjefe" wrote in message ... Sam Hopkins wrote: If your PH is 7.0 it will leech and be dissolved into the water column and build up and affect your fish. If your PH is 7.0 it will precipitate out and not affect anything. I know this from treating acid mine drainage. Sam .hmmmph our well water ph here runs about 8-9 and will disolve a copper pipe in a year or two in 1999 they put in a new subdivision an school near here and have had to replace all lthe copper pipes with pvc because of leaks, a real pain when the pipes are in under a concrete slab John Rutz |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
John Hines wrote in message . ..
"Pond Newbie" wrote: Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. Pennies in the last decade or so have been made of copper plated zinc. Neither is safe for fish. And to make things more fun the presence of zinc significantly increases the toxicity of copper... |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
John Hines wrote in message . ..
"Pond Newbie" wrote: Just theorizing, though. I know most places that have fish in their fountains now have signs asking that pennies (or any coin) not be thrown in the water. I would assume this to be the reason. Pennies in the last decade or so have been made of copper plated zinc. Neither is safe for fish. And to make things more fun the presence of zinc significantly increases the toxicity of copper... |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:23:21 -0500, "Sam Hopkins"
wrote: My guess is there's something more sinister going on. Copper pipes have been used a long long long time in homes with water that is above 7 PH and the plumping in them still exists after 80 years. There was a flap about copper pipes not standing up to water here and someone blamed impurities in the copper. Sounds reasonable to me, but I'm not a metallurgist, just a tinkerer. At the time of the flap most of the copper tube was being imported, can't remember which country was making it cheap enough to ship it in cheaper than we could make it here, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Regards, Hal |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:23:21 -0500, "Sam Hopkins"
wrote: My guess is there's something more sinister going on. Copper pipes have been used a long long long time in homes with water that is above 7 PH and the plumping in them still exists after 80 years. There was a flap about copper pipes not standing up to water here and someone blamed impurities in the copper. Sounds reasonable to me, but I'm not a metallurgist, just a tinkerer. At the time of the flap most of the copper tube was being imported, can't remember which country was making it cheap enough to ship it in cheaper than we could make it here, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Regards, Hal |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
ajames54 wrote:
And to make things more fun the presence of zinc significantly increases the toxicity of copper... That reminds me. Little children sometimes swallow coins. The old penny, solid bronze, was not too bad. The newer pennies with the zinc inside are deadly. Remember that around the brats. |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
Hal wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:23:21 -0500, "Sam Hopkins" wrote: My guess is there's something more sinister going on. Copper pipes have been used a long long long time in homes with water that is above 7 PH and the plumping in them still exists after 80 years. There was a flap about copper pipes not standing up to water here and someone blamed impurities in the copper. Sounds reasonable to me, I've heard that electrical currents through the ground and using water pipe for ground can also be a problem. I am not an electrician, so anyone with a problem should ask an expert. |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
It sounds as though two subjects are being discussed in this thread.
1) Fish toxicity. As I understand it, low pH will dissolve copper pipes. Because copper is variably toxic to fish (dependent upon species), this can be very bad, and suggests that avoiding the use of copper pipes for fish is prudent. 2) Pipe integrity. As Hal points out, copper pipes used today contain alloys that do not stand up well to high temperatures and/or high flow rates. They degrade (independently of pH), but do not leach copper at excessive rates (unless pH is low) . In effect, the copper pipe becomes a copper sponge tube. Might not be bad for fish, but leaks are likely to occur. Use PVC piping. Minimum Schedule 40. Hal wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:23:21 -0500, "Sam Hopkins" wrote: My guess is there's something more sinister going on. Copper pipes have been used a long long long time in homes with water that is above 7 PH and the plumping in them still exists after 80 years. There was a flap about copper pipes not standing up to water here and someone blamed impurities in the copper. Sounds reasonable to me, but I'm not a metallurgist, just a tinkerer. At the time of the flap most of the copper tube was being imported, can't remember which country was making it cheap enough to ship it in cheaper than we could make it here, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Regards, Hal |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
It sounds as though two subjects are being discussed in this thread.
1) Fish toxicity. As I understand it, low pH will dissolve copper pipes. Because copper is variably toxic to fish (dependent upon species), this can be very bad, and suggests that avoiding the use of copper pipes for fish is prudent. 2) Pipe integrity. As Hal points out, copper pipes used today contain alloys that do not stand up well to high temperatures and/or high flow rates. They degrade (independently of pH), but do not leach copper at excessive rates (unless pH is low) . In effect, the copper pipe becomes a copper sponge tube. Might not be bad for fish, but leaks are likely to occur. Use PVC piping. Minimum Schedule 40. Hal wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:23:21 -0500, "Sam Hopkins" wrote: My guess is there's something more sinister going on. Copper pipes have been used a long long long time in homes with water that is above 7 PH and the plumping in them still exists after 80 years. There was a flap about copper pipes not standing up to water here and someone blamed impurities in the copper. Sounds reasonable to me, but I'm not a metallurgist, just a tinkerer. At the time of the flap most of the copper tube was being imported, can't remember which country was making it cheap enough to ship it in cheaper than we could make it here, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Regards, Hal |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
Offbreed wrote:
ajames54 wrote: And to make things more fun the presence of zinc significantly increases the toxicity of copper... That reminds me. Little children sometimes swallow coins. The old penny, solid bronze, was not too bad. The newer pennies with the zinc inside are deadly. Remember that around the brats. Hmmmm. While Zinc Toxicosis is nothing to sneer at, "deadly" is exaggerating things a bit, methinks. |
Safety of Copper Pipes?
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