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Fish dying
next time do a quick physical, especially looking at slime coat and gills.
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disea...ue.html#Jo_Ann's_Fish_Physical when nothing shows on outside and no symptoms it is "sudden death" and this is fast changing water parameters, like loss of oxygen or toxic spike ... or, it could be internal bacteria. Ingrid JGW wrote: In the last month, I've found two of my goldfish in my outdoor pond dead. The water chemistry is fine except for the hardness being too low. I added a bunch of dolomite lime almost a month ago after the first fish died, and the hardness is improving, although the pH today was still on the low side. I don't know of any toxins that could have gotten into the water, and the fish showed no obvious sign of injury. Is there something else I should be doing or thinking about to protect my remaining fish? Thanks. Joan ___________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish dying
Joan, We need more specific information about the readings from
your pond. What is the KH? pH? Do you have a test kit? I for one would be hard pressed to advise anything without specifics ;-) Nedra in Missouri http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "JGW" wrote in message ... In the last month, I've found two of my goldfish in my outdoor pond dead. The water chemistry is fine except for the hardness being too low. I added a bunch of dolomite lime almost a month ago after the first fish died, and the hardness is improving, although the pH today was still on the low side. I don't know of any toxins that could have gotten into the water, and the fish showed no obvious sign of injury. Is there something else I should be doing or thinking about to protect my remaining fish? Thanks. Joan ___________________ |
Fish dying
Thanks for responding. I did look quickly at the fish, and I noticed
a purplish discoloration around her abdomen. I couldn't tell if she had been injured or was sick, or whether maybe she had been dead a while and the color change meant she was beginning to decompose. Any thoughts about that? Thanks for the link to the Fish Physical website. That's great to have! Joan next time do a quick physical, especially looking at slime coat and gills. http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disea...ue.html#Jo_Ann's_Fish_Physical when nothing shows on outside and no symptoms it is "sudden death" and this is fast changing water parameters, like loss of oxygen or toxic spike ... or, it could be internal bacteria. Ingrid |
Fish dying
Hi, Nedra.
I have a "Master Test Kit" On 5/2/04, when I found the first fish dead, the pH was 8.2 (late afternoon). The KH was 53.7 ppm and the GH was 71.6 ppm. Several days later, I tested the pH first thing in the morning and it was around 7.0. That was when I added the dolomite lime. Today, when I found the second fish, the pH was between 6.8 and 7.0 (around noon). The kH was 71.6 ppm and the GH was 107.4 ppm. I am thinking I may be having too large pH swings and that the water hardness is too low. I have the dolomite hanging in the water in a leg from a pair of panty hose, and periodically I squish it around to try to release more into the water. It hangs right below the waterfall. Joan Joan, We need more specific information about the readings from your pond. What is the KH? pH? Do you have a test kit? I for one would be hard pressed to advise anything without specifics ;-) Nedra in Missouri http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 |
Fish dying
Joan ... Thanks for the specifics!
Okaaay :) Here goes ... If it were me I would remove the lime and start (in the morning) to add baking soda --- 1 pound to 1,000 gallons of water. Only plan to change out 1/3 of the volume of pond water at a time. In other words take 3 days to get your pond up to the 1 lb to 1,000 point. I dilute the baking soda (plain ole Arm & Hammer) in a big jar of pond water and add it around the perimeter of the pond. Baking Soda will bring up the hardness of the pond water (KH) and even out the pH to 8.4 ... which I think is about perfect :) We've had huge amounts of rain here in the St. Louis area - This acidifies the pond water so I have to add baking soda on a regular basis during the spring and summer. This could be the reason your KH and pH is low.... HTH Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "JGW" wrote in message ... Hi, Nedra. I have a "Master Test Kit" On 5/2/04, when I found the first fish dead, the pH was 8.2 (late afternoon). The KH was 53.7 ppm and the GH was 71.6 ppm. Several days later, I tested the pH first thing in the morning and it was around 7.0. That was when I added the dolomite lime. Today, when I found the second fish, the pH was between 6.8 and 7.0 (around noon). The kH was 71.6 ppm and the GH was 107.4 ppm. I am thinking I may be having too large pH swings and that the water hardness is too low. I have the dolomite hanging in the water in a leg from a pair of panty hose, and periodically I squish it around to try to release more into the water. It hangs right below the waterfall. Joan Joan, We need more specific information about the readings from your pond. What is the KH? pH? Do you have a test kit? I for one would be hard pressed to advise anything without specifics ;-) Nedra in Missouri http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 |
Fish dying
Internal spawning injuries and/or infected eggs would account for what you see.
spawning bruises most certainly would look purplish. Ingrid JGW wrote: Thanks for responding. I did look quickly at the fish, and I noticed a purplish discoloration around her abdomen. I couldn't tell if she had been injured or was sick, or whether maybe she had been dead a while and the color change meant she was beginning to decompose. Any thoughts about that? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish dying
"JGW" wrote in message ... Hi, Nedra. I have a "Master Test Kit" On 5/2/04, when I found the first fish dead, the pH was 8.2 (late afternoon). The KH was 53.7 ppm and the GH was 71.6 ppm. Several days later, I tested the pH first thing in the morning and it was around 7.0. That was when I added the dolomite lime. Today, when I found the second fish, the pH was between 6.8 and 7.0 (around noon). The kH was 71.6 ppm and the GH was 107.4 ppm. I am thinking I may be having too large pH swings and that the water hardness is too low. I have the dolomite hanging in the water in a leg from a pair of panty hose, and periodically I squish it around to try to release more into the water. It hangs right below the waterfall. Your numbers... KH 53.7 to 71.6 GH 71.6 to 107.4 pH 8.2 to 6.8/7.0 These seem like fairly large swings in water chemistry. What about ammonia? Do you have any ammonia readings? How about Oxegynation? Are the fish looking for air up top? I am wondering if these swings in chemistry could be aggrevating some other condition like an ammonia spike or lack of oxygenation. BV. |
Fish dying
"JGW" wrote in message ... Hi, Nedra. I have a "Master Test Kit" On 5/2/04, when I found the first fish dead, the pH was 8.2 (late afternoon). The KH was 53.7 ppm and the GH was 71.6 ppm. Several days later, I tested the pH first thing in the morning and it was around 7.0. That was when I added the dolomite lime. Today, when I found the second fish, the pH was between 6.8 and 7.0 (around noon). The kH was 71.6 ppm and the GH was 107.4 ppm. I am thinking I may be having too large pH swings and that the water hardness is too low. I have the dolomite hanging in the water in a leg from a pair of panty hose, and periodically I squish it around to try to release more into the water. It hangs right below the waterfall. Your numbers... KH 53.7 to 71.6 GH 71.6 to 107.4 pH 8.2 to 6.8/7.0 These seem like fairly large swings in water chemistry. What about ammonia? Do you have any ammonia readings? How about Oxegynation? Are the fish looking for air up top? I am wondering if these swings in chemistry could be aggrevating some other condition like an ammonia spike or lack of oxygenation. BV. |
Fish dying
You can put the dolomitic lime in your filter instead of the sock. but it seems it
has done the job of adding a buffer. Baking soda may increase the pH quickly (not desirable), but it wont provide lasting stability cause the bicarb breaks down to CO2 and leaves the pond. That is where the dolomitic limestone comes in. It slowly releases on demand as needed, almost like having limestone in the pond. anything above 50 is OK, altho higher is better. It is expected that pH is low in morning as the CO2 has been removed during the night by plants in the water. During the day CO2 and O2 levels increase with pH peaking right before sunset. But the more plants (algae) in the water, the larger the swing .... do you have green water? It could be if your water is green and warm then the plants are using up the oxygen... especially if you dont have sufficient oxygenation. So maybe other people could share what their morning and late afternoon pH is? I did a search to find out what "normal" swings are but I think this group could provide the data. Please include pH out of the tap and if you have noticed pH shifts after heavy rains. Ingrid "JGW" wrote in message I have a "Master Test Kit" On 5/2/04, when I found the first fish dead, the pH was 8.2 (late afternoon). The KH was 53.7 ppm and the GH was 71.6 ppm. Several days later, I tested the pH first thing in the morning and it was around 7.0. That was when I added the dolomite lime. Today, when I found the second fish, the pH was between 6.8 and 7.0 (around noon). The kH was 71.6 ppm and the GH was 107.4 ppm. I am thinking I may be having too large pH swings and that the water hardness is too low. I have the dolomite hanging in the water in a leg from a pair of panty hose, and periodically I squish it around to try to release more into the water. It hangs right below the waterfall. Your numbers... KH 53.7 to 71.6 GH 71.6 to 107.4 pH 8.2 to 6.8/7.0 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish dying
[snipped for bandwidth]
Your numbers... KH 53.7 to 71.6 GH 71.6 to 107.4 pH 8.2 to 6.8/7.0 These seem like fairly large swings in water chemistry. What about ammonia? Do you have any ammonia readings? How about Oxegynation? Are the fish looking for air up top? I am wondering if these swings in chemistry could be aggrevating some other condition like an ammonia spike or lack of oxygenation. BV. Hi, Thanks for writing back. The ammonia and nitrite have been consistently testing negative. I haven't seen any fish looking for air up top, and we have an air bubbler and a waterfall in the pond, so I think the oxygenation should be okay. I don't know how to measure it, though. I did notice that, yesterday, there weren't quite as many air bubbles coming up from the air pump as there should be, so I cleaned the air pump and it improved. It's been a big spring for string algae. Hmmm, I wonder if that could be related to anything? Joan |
Fish dying
Thanks
Joan ... Thanks for the specifics! Okaaay :) Here goes ... If it were me I would remove the lime and start (in the morning) to add baking soda --- [snipped for bandwidth] Hi! Thanks so much. I'm glad to know about the baking soda, and also about the rain. We have had a lot of rain lately. Joan |
Fish dying
You can put the dolomitic lime in your filter instead of the sock. Oh that is a good idea! I never thought about adding it directly to the filter. It won't clog it up? but it seems it has done the job of adding a buffer. Baking soda may increase the pH quickly (not desirable), but it wont provide lasting stability cause the bicarb breaks down to CO2 and leaves the pond. That is where the dolomitic limestone comes in. It slowly releases on demand as needed, almost like having limestone in the pond. anything above 50 is OK, altho higher is better. Oh, okay. Thanks. I added some more today, directly to the filter. It is expected that pH is low in morning as the CO2 has been removed during the night by plants in the water. During the day CO2 and O2 levels increase with pH peaking right before sunset. But the more plants (algae) in the water, the larger the swing ... do you have green water? It could be if your water is green and warm then the plants are using up the oxygen... especially if you dont have sufficient oxygenation. Ah. Well, we have had an enormous amount of algae this year. It just started to come under some degree of control within the last month. The water itself isn't too green. But the algae have been clogging up the pumps a lot. We do have a good-sized air bubbler in the pond. It's about the size of a regular pump and it runs 24/7. Plus we have a waterfall that runs most of the day. So I think there should be plenty of oxygen, but who knows? Is there a way to find out? Should I be adding hydrogen peroxide to the water?? [snipped for bandwidth] Thanks so much for your input. Joan |
Fish dying
"JGW" wrote in message ... snip Hi! Thanks so much. I'm glad to know about the baking soda, and also about the rain. We have had a lot of rain lately. snip Lots of rain? What's your runoff situation like? Could something nasty be running into the pond? BV. |
Fish dying
Lots of rain? What's your runoff situation like? Could something nasty be
running into the pond? BV. Good question. A couple of months ago, we did get the house power washed. They used bleach, but they didn't use it on the side of the house near the pond. It's possible the wind could have blown some in, but I added De-Chlor as a preventative afterwards. Also, about that time, an exterminator came and sprayed around the house. He uses a pyrethrin-based product. Again, though, we watched him closely to make sure that he stayed away from the pond. I guess it's not impossible some could have gotten in. I can't think of anything else. We have no nearby neighbors and our wastewater is discharged downhill of the pond. We don't use chemicals on the lawn. We did have an awful lot of algae this year, so I guess it's possible we're a little oxygen depleted. We run an air bubbler in the pond 24/7 and we have a waterfall, though, and I haven't seen any fish gasping for air at the surface of the water. I guess I need to check early in the AM. Joan |
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