They're both called de-icers. The Little Giant, at 1250 watts, blew the
fuse, but it definitely does not say heater on the box; it says de-icer.
I've ordered a different one from PetSolutions which is 100 and also
called a de-icer. I don't get it. How can there be such a variation?
If 100 or even only 24 (MarineDepot) works to maintain a hole in the
ice, what's the point of a whopping 1250 if it is not intended to do
more than that?

Ruth Kazez

24 watts could easily be overwhelmed by a long hard freeze I would
think. At 110 volts 1240 watts is only a little over 11 amps
(1250watts/110 volts), not really all that much. You may have a weak
circuit breaker. A typical 110 volt line would be on a 20-30 amp
breaker (I guess this depends on where you live). If it's an older
system with fuses don't just put a larger fuse in. I'm assuming you're
in the US of course. Amperage would be about have that in most of
Western Europe but it is all relative.

rtk wrote:

They're both called de-icers. The Little Giant, at 1250 watts, blew the
fuse, but it definitely does not say heater on the box; it says de-icer.
I've ordered a different one from PetSolutions which is 100 and also
called a de-icer. I don't get it. How can there be such a variation?
If 100 or even only 24 (MarineDepot) works to maintain a hole in the
ice, what's the point of a whopping 1250 if it is not intended to do
more than that?

Ruth Kazez

Mark Bannister wrote:

24 watts could easily be overwhelmed by a long hard freeze I would
think. At 110 volts 1240 watts is only a little over 11 amps
(1250watts/110 volts), not really all that much. You may have a weak
circuit breaker. A typical 110 volt line would be on a 20-30 amp

Even in the US, I don't believe you're permitted to use more than a 20 amp
breaker on a standard branch circuit. In Canada you may not use more than
15amps.

breaker (I guess this depends on where you live).

Yeah, but the pond's probably a long way from the nearest outlet on a
too-small extension cord. 1250/15 = 83V, which is one heck of a voltage
drop, but perhaps not impossible if the house is on the end of a long rural
run - where voltages tend to fluctuate quite a bit anyway.

So, rtk, the lessons learned a
(1) don't use extension cords (I bet the LG de-icer said that, too - because
I seem to remember somebody actually noting that, here)
(2) when you must use an extension cord, use one that's big enough: for this
job, that means _at least_ 14Gauge.
(3) when you start having electrical problems with your pond, get smart and
call an electrician - it's _so_ much better than burning down the house or
electrocuting your spouse (unless of course you want to electrocute your
spouse)
--
derek

Derek Broughton wrote:
Yeah, but the pond's probably a long way from the nearest outlet on a
too-small extension cord. 1250/15 = 83V, which is one heck of a voltage
drop, but perhaps not impossible if the house is on the end of a long rural
run - where voltages tend to fluctuate quite a bit anyway.

C'mon Derek, that dog don't hunt. We ain't dealing with a motor here -- this
is just a big honkin' resistor (11.5 ohms, more-or-less), which isn't going to
change resistance significantly, no matter what the line voltage. 15 amps
through a 12.5 ohm resistor is nearly 2600 watts (which also implies 188 volts
across the resistor). Nope.

Either the breaker / fuse is weak, or there's another 500+ watts of other load
on the circuit.

, that dog don't hunt.

LOL! Someone is either from TX, or a Dr. Phil fan. To be on topic shouldn't
it be: that fish won't swim? ;o) ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~


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Never watched Dr. Phil, but I think "that dog don't hunt" is definitely
suth-ren! (I don't recall hearing it before Bill Clinton, though -- but,
hey, I'm one of the Yankees who invaded North Carolina for the weather! Too
bad we brought winter weather with us, sigh....)

And, yeah, I do have to wave that little checkered flag that says "Don't
mess with electricity!" (Anyone else remember the saying "There is never
enough time to do it right, but there is always time to fix it."? Replace
"time" with "money" and.................. you see what I mean!)

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


, that dog don't hunt.

LOL! Someone is either from TX, or a Dr. Phil fan. To be on topic
shouldn't
it be: that fish won't swim? ;o) ~ jan

Never watched Dr. Phil, but I think "that dog don't hunt" is definitely
suth-ren! (I don't recall hearing it before Bill Clinton, though -- but,
hey, I'm one of the Yankees who invaded North Carolina for the weather! Too
bad we brought winter weather with us, sigh....)

And, yeah, I do have to wave that little checkered flag that says "Don't
mess with electricity!" (Anyone else remember the saying "There is never
enough time to do it right, but there is always time to fix it."? Replace
"time" with "money" and.................. you see what I mean!)

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


, that dog don't hunt.

LOL! Someone is either from TX, or a Dr. Phil fan. To be on topic
shouldn't
it be: that fish won't swim? ;o) ~ jan

Andy Hill wrote:

Derek Broughton wrote:
Yeah, but the pond's probably a long way from the nearest outlet on a
too-small extension cord. 1250/15 = 83V, which is one heck of a voltage
drop, but perhaps not impossible if the house is on the end of a long
rural run - where voltages tend to fluctuate quite a bit anyway.

C'mon Derek, that dog don't hunt. We ain't dealing with a motor here --
this is just a big honkin' resistor (11.5 ohms, more-or-less), which isn't
going to
change resistance significantly, no matter what the line voltage. 15
amps through a 12.5 ohm resistor is nearly 2600 watts (which also implies
188 volts
across the resistor). Nope.

Doesn't work that way. Line voltage drops. Line voltage _always_ drops, we
just try to keep it minimal based on sizing the wire. Line voltage drops
_a lot_ when you run it through an 18Ga extension cord. Your "volts across
the resistor" is not across the heater, it's across the heater and all the
cable leading to it - which is why it's a fire hazard. All I showed there
is that the voltage would have to be down to around 83V to blow a 15A
breaker, which (I agree) even on an extension cord seemed too much.

Either the breaker / fuse is weak, or there's another 500+ watts of other
load on the circuit.

Yeah, like the _other_ pond heater. Ruth - just because you have two pairs
of outlets doesn't mean you have two circuits. Did both heaters stop
working when the breaker blew?
--
derek

Derek Broughton wrote:


Either the breaker / fuse is weak, or there's another 500+ watts of other
load on the circuit.


Yeah, like the _other_ pond heater. Ruth - just because you have two pairs
of outlets doesn't mean you have two circuits. Did both heaters stop
working when the breaker blew?

Both heaters and both pumps from both ponds stopped. When the one new
heater was unplugged and the reset button pushed, all worked again: the
other heater and both pumps. I realize two outlets doesn't equal two
circuits. They are both connected to the switch and that goes 12 feet
into the house and another 12 feet to its very own little hardwired box.

Ruth K

Derek Broughton wrote:


Either the breaker / fuse is weak, or there's another 500+ watts of other
load on the circuit.


Yeah, like the _other_ pond heater. Ruth - just because you have two pairs
of outlets doesn't mean you have two circuits. Did both heaters stop
working when the breaker blew?

Both heaters and both pumps from both ponds stopped. When the one new
heater was unplugged and the reset button pushed, all worked again: the
other heater and both pumps. I realize two outlets doesn't equal two
circuits. They are both connected to the switch and that goes 12 feet
into the house and another 12 feet to its very own little hardwired box.

Ruth K

, that dog don't hunt.

LOL! Someone is either from TX, or a Dr. Phil fan. To be on topic shouldn't
it be: that fish won't swim? ;o) ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~


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Andy Hill wrote:

Derek Broughton wrote:
Yeah, but the pond's probably a long way from the nearest outlet on a
too-small extension cord. 1250/15 = 83V, which is one heck of a voltage
drop, but perhaps not impossible if the house is on the end of a long
rural run - where voltages tend to fluctuate quite a bit anyway.

C'mon Derek, that dog don't hunt. We ain't dealing with a motor here --
this is just a big honkin' resistor (11.5 ohms, more-or-less), which isn't
going to
change resistance significantly, no matter what the line voltage. 15
amps through a 12.5 ohm resistor is nearly 2600 watts (which also implies
188 volts
across the resistor). Nope.

Doesn't work that way. Line voltage drops. Line voltage _always_ drops, we
just try to keep it minimal based on sizing the wire. Line voltage drops
_a lot_ when you run it through an 18Ga extension cord. Your "volts across
the resistor" is not across the heater, it's across the heater and all the
cable leading to it - which is why it's a fire hazard. All I showed there
is that the voltage would have to be down to around 83V to blow a 15A
breaker, which (I agree) even on an extension cord seemed too much.

Either the breaker / fuse is weak, or there's another 500+ watts of other
load on the circuit.

Yeah, like the _other_ pond heater. Ruth - just because you have two pairs
of outlets doesn't mean you have two circuits. Did both heaters stop
working when the breaker blew?
--
derek

Derek Broughton wrote:
Yeah, but the pond's probably a long way from the nearest outlet on a
too-small extension cord. 1250/15 = 83V, which is one heck of a voltage
drop, but perhaps not impossible if the house is on the end of a long rural
run - where voltages tend to fluctuate quite a bit anyway.

C'mon Derek, that dog don't hunt. We ain't dealing with a motor here -- this
is just a big honkin' resistor (11.5 ohms, more-or-less), which isn't going to
change resistance significantly, no matter what the line voltage. 15 amps
through a 12.5 ohm resistor is nearly 2600 watts (which also implies 188 volts
across the resistor). Nope.

Either the breaker / fuse is weak, or there's another 500+ watts of other load
on the circuit.

Derek Broughton wrote:
Yeah, but the pond's probably a long way from the nearest outlet on a
too-small extension cord. 1250/15 = 83V, which is one heck of a voltage
drop, but perhaps not impossible if the house is on the end of a long rural
run - where voltages tend to fluctuate quite a bit anyway.

C'mon Derek, that dog don't hunt. We ain't dealing with a motor here -- this
is just a big honkin' resistor (11.5 ohms, more-or-less), which isn't going to
change resistance significantly, no matter what the line voltage. 15 amps
through a 12.5 ohm resistor is nearly 2600 watts (which also implies 188 volts
across the resistor). Nope.

Either the breaker / fuse is weak, or there's another 500+ watts of other load
on the circuit.

Mark Bannister wrote:

24 watts could easily be overwhelmed by a long hard freeze I would
think. At 110 volts 1240 watts is only a little over 11 amps
(1250watts/110 volts), not really all that much. You may have a weak
circuit breaker. A typical 110 volt line would be on a 20-30 amp

Even in the US, I don't believe you're permitted to use more than a 20 amp
breaker on a standard branch circuit. In Canada you may not use more than
15amps.

breaker (I guess this depends on where you live).

Yeah, but the pond's probably a long way from the nearest outlet on a
too-small extension cord. 1250/15 = 83V, which is one heck of a voltage
drop, but perhaps not impossible if the house is on the end of a long rural
run - where voltages tend to fluctuate quite a bit anyway.

So, rtk, the lessons learned a
(1) don't use extension cords (I bet the LG de-icer said that, too - because
I seem to remember somebody actually noting that, here)
(2) when you must use an extension cord, use one that's big enough: for this
job, that means _at least_ 14Gauge.
(3) when you start having electrical problems with your pond, get smart and
call an electrician - it's _so_ much better than burning down the house or
electrocuting your spouse (unless of course you want to electrocute your
spouse)
--
derek